Useful Information for Specific Situations

[Ballistics]

I think that there are too many guides on characters and gameplay that lack situational information that can be used in game. For example someone will explain how to wave dash but then fail to explain that you should wavedash backwards when you are attacked, and then do your own attack. I would like people to post specific things that players can do in certain situations to help them become better opponents. Also if something posted is wrong or is not guranteed or does not at least work most of the time, please comment about that and fix it too. I will assemble this useful information in the OP as the thread progresses.


Downthrow -> Down Smash works on fox at almost any percent if the fox doesn't DI, not the case in PAL
Backthrow -> Forward Smash works on Fox and Falco when they don't DI correctly
Upthrow -> Jump + Shine on Fox and Falco at low percents, unless they DI correctly
Upthrow -> Jump + B-air on peach, marth, jiggs, sheik
Dash Attack -> Forward Smash on Fox and Falco at 80% - ~120%
Dash attack -> up tilt -> back air on Fox and Falco


Grab > jump > cargo up-throw > F-air on most characters around the 80%'s if you follow their DI
Chaingrab on fox and falco on Final Destination


Down Throw -> Regrab always works on Marth at 0%
Up Throw -> Knee guaranteed on Marth from 68% to low 100%s
Down Throw -> Knee guaranteed on Marth at 85% (g-reg **** nastiness)
Down Throw -> Knee guaranteed on Marth at 125%
Up Throw -> Forward Smash guaranteed on Fox and Falco at 80% or so
Up Throw -> Knee on Fox and Falco - 90%+ (any DI but away)
Down Throw -> Regrab always works on Fox and Falco between 100% and 130%
Down Throw -> Peach - around 80% (?)
Up Throw -> Knee on Sheik - 65-70% somewhere in there
Guaranteed tech chase on all three fastfallers if Marth is dash dancing


Chain Grab on Falco on Final Destination
Chain Grab on Fox on Final Destination
NOTE: Starting at about 45-55%, if they neutral DI, they can jump out or shine out, must use an aerial or uptilt
Dash attack -> up tilt -> back air on Fox and Falco


Can chaingrab Falco on Final Destination with an escape window of 20-24%, to prevent this, use pivot grab
Can chaingrab Fox on Final Destination, Fox can get out at 20-22%, to counter this window, use pivot grab
Forward Throw -> Regrab on Fox, Falco, and Marth when they are at 0%
Marth's grab range is so wide that as soon as you fthrow Marth simply run forward, if they DI toward you/up, just regrab, otherwise you simply react as soon as they tech


Down Throw -> B-air or F-air will almost always work on Peach
Down Throw Chain Grab on Sheik, Ganon, and most low tier characters


Down Throw ---> WD back ---> Charge beam is pretty much guaranteed against Sheik
Up Throw ---> Jump ---> Charge Beam on Fox, Falco past 40%

:shiek:
Down Throw -> F-air or U-air or B-air always works on Ganon or Peach past 30%, not the case in PAL
Chaingrab on Ganon, Sheik not the case in PAL


Up Throw -> Rest on Fox and Falco until high percentages, escapable with proper DI


Grab Infinite on all characters
Grab Combos on Fox, Falco, Falcon to 130%

In General:
It is not wise to do aerials on platforms when the opponent is below the platforms
It is not wise to attack the top of the shield
You should always DI away from Shiek's moves
When a player techs near a ledge, they will most often roll towards the middle of the stage
When you corner a fast faller they will most often jump

 

[Geist]

I thought Fox could shine out of Falco's Dthrow shenanigans.

ermmmmmm...
Samus: Dthrow ---> WD back ---> Charge beam is pretty much guaranteed against sheik. That's pretty specific.

 

[Ballistics]

I thought Fox could shine out of Falco's Dthrow shenanigans.

ermmmmmm...
Samus: Dthrow ---> WD back ---> Charge beam is pretty much guaranteed against sheik. That's pretty specific.

Yea thats the kind of stuff im looking for, Im pretty sure he can shine you before you can down throw shine but the down throw down smash is guranteed

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

ballistics that makes no sense

shine is faster than downsmash

also, up-throw knee works on Marth from 68% to low 100%s

at 125-ish downthrow knee is guaranteed as well

 

[Metal Reeper]

I mean, im not super sure, I guess if they DI it, if anyone is like 100-120% you might be able to uthrow> knee. Yeah I play bad people, so probably not guaranteed. DI falcon's Uthrow away, and his Dthrow away and down. Will write more later that will hopefully contribute to anything successful.

 

[Ballistics]

ballistics that makes no sense

shine is faster than downsmash

also, up-throw knee works on Marth from 68% to low 100%s

at 125-ish downthrow knee is guaranteed as well

I actually don't think its a time constraint that stops falco's shine I think its the length of the hit box, the dsmash can reach fox where the shine can't. Also, it might have something to do with the fact that falco's feet are invincible when he first does the dsmash.

 

[DippnDots]

nothing is guaranteed on fox when falco down throws him, he can shine or grab you before you get out of the animation.

 

[Ballistics]

It might not be guaranteed but why does it work every time I do it and see it done? I asked dr pee pee in a pm to see what he thinks

 

[Charlesz]

I thought the d throw d smash on fox with falco was guaranteed until a certain percentage when the fox and di away far enough from it.

 

[Ballistics]

I think its like jigglypuff's up throw rest on fox and falco yes there is a chance they could DI but they rarely do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-v-8po6_pk
2:57

 

[TheManaLord]

is this another one of those joke combo threads???

lol jk some of that **** is ok but some if it is just WHACK tarded and wrong

 

[X1-12]

I thought the d throw d smash on fox with falco was guaranteed until a certain percentage when the fox and di away far enough from it.

Teching?????????

 

[Ballistics]

Which parts are wrong I'll change them if they are

X1-12, fox can't tech falco's down throw at any percent

 

[mastermoo420]

What's X1-12?

 

[Ballistics]

falco from the UK

 

[mastermoo420]

OH, LOL I THOUGHT THAT WAS A PERCENTAGE. And u mad. Fox can tech. I'm sure of it >: I swear I've done it. I tink

 

[Ballistics]

He can tech most things, but for some reason, not falco's down throw

 

[mastermoo420]

I swear I've done it before... ;-; I'm going to test this at home if nobody verifies this once I get back from my internship and then SAT prep janx.

 

[X1-12]

I just teched falco's D-throw as Fox. Just now.

 

[Moooose]

probably pal version
in ntsc or whatever,if fox di's in, he can shine before falco can do anything

 

[JPOBS]

lol

fox teching falco downthrow

what is going on in this thread

 

[Ballistics]

I feel bad for PAL falcos

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

don't you guys have that ****ty-*** dair?

 

[harriettheguy]

When you corner a fast faller, they're probably gonna jump.

 

[BigD!!!]

fox can somehow tech it, but i dont know how it happens

cykofox used to fall down from falcos dthrow with fox every time, but was totally new to smash at the time and couldnt tell you how he did it

 

[Metal Reeper]

I think if fox can tech it depends on % dont listen to me though <3

 

[MooseEatsBear]

Fox can tech Falco's d-throw starting at %180-shs.

 

[Ballistics]

When you corner a fast faller, they're probably gonna jump.

Interesting, this is the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

 

[Stratocaster]

Forward Throw -> Regrab on Fox, Falco, and Marth when they are at 0%

OBJECTION!!!
That only works if your opponent is slow

When Fox and Falco are thrown forward at 0% they regain control within 1 frame of when Falcon does, this really just leaves Fox and Falco really close to you, if they can avoid another grab in about a million ways

Downthrow spacies and tech chase/ punish the missed tech at low percents, definately puts you at the advantage rather than being even after the throw.

When Marth is thrown forward at 0% he can jump before he even reaches the ground or if he does reach the ground all he has to do is dash away/ jump back and nair/ dtilt to avoid the second grab

Marth can be chaingrabbed at low percents with downthrow, at least at 0% he cannot escape the chaingrab, when he can't be chaingrabbed its better to downthrow and combo aerials

in otherwards, never forward throw and regrab, there are much better options

Tested everything with AR btw

 

[Ballistics]

OBJECTION!!!
That only works if your opponent is slow

When Fox and Falco are thrown forward at 0% they regain control within 1 frame of when Falcon does, this really just leaves Fox and Falco really close to you, if they can avoid another grab in about a million ways

Downthrow spacies and tech chase/ punish the missed tech at low percents, definately puts you at the advantage rather than being even after the throw.

When Marth is thrown forward at 0% he can jump before he even reaches the ground or if he does reach the ground all he has to do is dash away/ jump back and nair/ dtilt to avoid the second grab

Marth can be chaingrabbed at low percents with downthrow, at least at 0% he cannot escape the chaingrab, when he can't be chaingrabbed its better to downthrow and combo aerials

in otherwards, never forward throw and regrab, there are much better options

Tested everything with AR btw

Good stuff man, however I have never seen anyone get out of the forward throw regrab and can't do it myself, so I would say in practice its still legit. Have you ever seen anyone do this?

Can everyone dthrow chain grab marth?

 

[Stratocaster]

I play Falcon vs Marth allll the time and forward throw regrab works if he messes up, but not always, especially if they DI away, and its even easier to escape with Fox/Falco

I was refering to Falcon the entire time, so no, some other characters may be able to chaingrab marth, but I'm only saying Falcon can.

even if you can forward throw and regrab, which is unreliable, there are better options I listed already that are inescapable so do those instead.

 

[Ballistics]

Whoops I meant to put the regrab in for marth not falcon, or is that what you're talking about too?

 

[Stratocaster]

Ohhh ok, I think Marth's regrab works, idk. It was under falcon and I read that and was like... umm since when? Looks better now, maybe later I'll see how high that chaingrab is guaranteed

 

[Ballistics]

Thanks man, good to have an AR around

 

[L__]

Falco:
Downthrow -> Down Smash works on fox at almost any percent if the fox doesn't DI, not the case in PAL

no


Fox:
Chain Grab on Fox and Falco from 15% - 70 or so % on Final Destination

Fox can shine out at ~40%

Marth:
Can chaingrab Fox and Falco until at least 60 - 70% on Final Destination

Fox can get out at 20-22%

In General:

It is not wise to attack the top of the shield

you're supposed to mix up your shield pressure

You should always DI away from Shiek's moves

not always

When a player techs near a ledge, they will most often roll towards the middle of the stage

is this a joke? everyone has different habits

When you corner a fast faller they will most often jump

responses in bold

 

[Ballistics]

no
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-v-8po6_pk
2:57

It might be possible to get out of this with proper DI from fox, but most often, Ive seen this work.

Fox can shine out at ~40%
so he can shine out at above ~40 too I'm assuming?

Marth:
Can chaingrab Fox and Falco until at least 60 - 70% on Final Destination

Fox can get out at 20-22%
and up too? Or is it just a window? Somehow I thought marth could chaingrab fox to death.

In General:

It is not wise to attack the top of the shield

you're supposed to mix up your shield pressure
Yes but I'm talking about just in terms of doing aerials on the shield, in which case its much better to delay your aerials so you don't get shield grabbed

You should always DI away from Shiek's moves

not always
In what cases should you not? Im mainly referring to her tilts and grabs

When a player techs near a ledge, they will most often roll towards the middle of the stage

is this a joke? everyone has different habits
Yes but this a universal reaction to not wanting to be killed off the side, while it might not always happen this way, I think most people fall under this category.

When you corner a fast faller they will most often jump
sadface

This makes sense to me, and even if its not true all of the time, its an interesting thing to try and predict.

 

[Jim Morrison]

On most characters, Donkey Kong can use jump > cargo up-throw > F-air on most characters around the 80%'s if you follow their DI.

But don't take it from me.

 

[dudutsai]

You forgot Captain Falcon: Side B -> Up B at any %

 

[JPOBS]

Fox can shine/jump out of marths throw between like 20-24% its a window. The marth can pivot grab to prevent this.
Falco can shine/jump out at 27-29% ish. again, marth can pivot grab. Either way, its not as garunteed as it seems.

Falco downthrow downsmash doesnt work. they can just sheild most times, otherwise, they can DI in and shine. but it can catch people off guard once in a while.

Falco upthrow->shine/aerial on other space animals only works if they dont DI. if they DI away, you aint getting squat.

Fox can straight chaingrab both space animals to about 85% if they continue to DI left right the whole time. Strarting at about 45-55%, if they neutral DI, they can jump out or shine out. You have to uptilt or aerial or something.

Marth's forward throw regrab on spacies at 0% can be buffered roll'd out of.
also, just as a tidbit, marth cant actually regrab falco from a upthrow at 0%. I think he cant regrab from a upthrow till like...~7%

I havent looked at the other chars yet. Mostly though, almost everything that seem "garunteed" can be avoided if you have knowledge of how/when to do it and adequate reactions

 

[mastermoo420]

You forgot Captain Falcon: Side B -> Up B at any %

D-throw while facing the ledge > raptor boost off the stage is always nice, too.