Upstate New York Tournament Thread

[Gaia_x]

DBZB3 Was ******

interesting... go on?

 

[Acton]

I still got my setup for B3 as well. xD I might start practicing it. =0 #1 on the pr for DBZ:B3 in the region here I come! loool

 

[Zhenkai]

Ok guys, important question right here. Well two, actually. First off, I need to know exactly when there's going to be tourneys and what not held this summer. Sun! and I planning on trying to come down as much as possible, within our work schedules and paycheck limits. If ya'll can help me with that, I can guarantee him and I will be down there, may even bring Jordan down if he's got cash.

Also, 2nd question, I was showing Sun! this thread last night and the player location map, and he was curious if he could be added onto it with me, so it'd show both of us up here. That, I dunno, but yeah, that's all I got for now, so inform me people!

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. As far as tourneys in the region go, I dont know what were doing, Syracuse Smash 3 is supposed to be happening but I havent heard anything about it in about a month or so. But if your willing to travel with us, there a list of scheduled traveling events in the OP

2. Foy is the one who made the map, we'll have to see if hes not too lazy to edit Sun! in real quick.

 

[Shiri]

Budokai series was okay.

People need to get on that Super Butoden, though! Sh*t was amaaaaaaaaaazing!

 

[RTF]

I only played the first budokai game and it felt like this:

 

[Zhenkai]

1. As far as tourneys in the region go, I dont know what were doing, Syracuse Smash 3 is supposed to be happening but I havent heard anything about it in about a month or so. But if your willing to travel with us, there a list of scheduled traveling events in the OP

2. Foy is the one who made the map, we'll have to see if hes not too lazy to edit Sun! in real quick.

Alright, will keep a watch on the OP, thanks. Also, Foy best not be lazy or he will get a punch in the face from me. XD

 

[Foy]

Yo. 2 things. Shut the **** up, and stop saying you are going to hit me or ill ****ing beat your ***.
Who do you think you are talking too. Before you can join the region you have to be part of the region.

 

[BluePeachy100]

I think needing a premium membership for a namechage, or even YOUR EFFING TITLE is VERY stupid. I'll probably be making a new account, but I have too many people (like 40) to re-add, and I'm lazy...

 

[hubble]

No way dude, your username is amazing.


To the dudes going to MM20, I'm probably not going to be able to go anymore.

 

[Zhenkai]

Geez Foy, just yankin' yer chain man. Take a joke once in a while, I don't hit everyone I say I will.

Also, if ya want to get that pissy over the region, that's not a great example to want to be apart of it.

 

[hubble]

Geez Foy, just yankin' yer chain man. Take a joke once in a while, I don't hit everyone I say I will.

Also, if ya want to get that pissy over the region, that's not a great example to want to be apart of it.

Chill brah, foy's like the biggest jokester in the region.

 

[da K.I.D.]

As far as im concerned he is part of the region already.

Tho, I dont really feel like I am so I guess youd have to take that with a grain of salt

 

[da K.I.D.]

Alright, will keep a watch on the OP, thanks. Also, Foy best not be lazy or he will get a punch in the face from me. XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSE7gAjlR2Y

lawllllllll

 

[Zhenkai]

Dude...what the hell...I dunno if I should be shocked/laughing/facepalming at that. XD

 

[RTF]

That's a mighty fine cave you've got there.

 

[Foy]

I hate zubat. Soooo much.

 

[Zhenkai]

All we need now is the Zubat's going left to right and vice versa on every line, a gun, and some carnival music.

 

[Shiri]

OH WE LIKE CANDY IN THIS MOFUGGA

 

[Kantō]

yo im in the process of moving right now and i just got a job last week. im saving up my money for an apartment with my GF, then my smashin schedule will be on track.

and about syracuse 3, i havent blown it off, i have a venue, i simply just need to finish my bull**** and get the time off from my new job. im just a lil hesitant to ask so soon since i was only hired last week, and i also really wanna go to mlg and thats really soon, so i need time of for that which i might not get ugh....

long story short, keep pushing me guys, all of u. yell at me, tell me nicely i dont care, just keep this fire under me going for smash cuz its been quite dull the past couple months.

 

[JesiahTEG]

What's up people it 8 AM everyone's sleeping and im bored. if you wanna talk about smash IM me @ eveofmorse or send me a text @ 585-615-8756 preferrably melee but ill talk about brawl too if u want

edit- and if someone could make me like brawl again thatd be cool

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok its been 13 minutes and no one has said anything so im just gonna talk about melee to myself.

Who's the best character in Melee? I don't even know if I can answer that question cuz I think Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Peach, IC's, Jiggs can all win national tournaments, and MAYBE Falcon and Ganon, probably not though tbh, Falcon more likely than Ganon.

Peach is super underrated, Fox and Falco are just hard to win national tourneys with consistently cuz of tech skill. Who wins national tourneys with Fox and Falco consistently? Umm, Mango w/Falco and maybe PC for his short reign? Ya cuz Melee tech skill is hard as ****, even at the highest levels of play.

Melee tech skill is the most frustrating, but rewarding thing in the world. People mess it up so much, but when you're on it's beautiful and makes you untouchable.

It's absolutely necessary to be good at Melee, but at the same time, it's not necessary to be super super technical.

I think of it like riding a Gundam or a Zoid. You have to have complete and perfect control of your character (or gundam lol) to be able to stand a chance. Then, from there, you have to be smart and know every situation in and out.

Or you could learn the situations first, then learn the tech skill later. Idk.

One thing I love about Melee is the depth. There are so many random things you NEED to know. Like, learning a character inside and out is the most fun thing ever. No, I haven't done it yet, but the closest is with Marth. I know so much about that ***** lol. A few things about Marth I think everyone should know:

His nair is super overrated. That **** is so easy to get around. It has a ***** *** hitbox that you can just jump over.

Really, Marth's aerials are good but they are the only way he can ever get punished. Like, let's go over the most common ways Marth gets punished:

1. Getting grabbed or attacked after a whiffed aerial. People can see that **** coming from so far away, Fair, Nair.

2. Dash Dancing, but having your opponent know how to beat it and then you can't adapt. Like, if they just keep overshooting their aerials and Marth is too stupid to adjust.

3. When Marth is in the air at all. Literally like 75% of why Marth gets hit is cuz he's in the air. Like, his aerials don't come out fast enough to be able to block incoming approaches on reaction all the time, so you'll see someone coming in while you're in teh air, and even if you're quick enough to react, fair won't come out fast enough to block it.

PeePee's right, Marth's metagame has just been untouched for too long now. After M2K's prime in 07, every other significant Marth main has just spent these past few years trying to just catch up to where M2K was, me included. Gotta get past that **** this summer.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ganon cant win national tourneys
neither can falcon
nor ICs
peach and sheik are really iffy for me. it doesnt seem like they should be able to, but armada and amsah seem to make it work.

and melee tech skill to you is the same as good reading ability in brawl, thats why i enjoy it so much.

also note that depending on the skill level you are talking about, you dont need to master everything about a character to do well, you only need to have mastery and control over what you DO know. I think im a prime example, I dont know how to do much with ganon outside of spacing and reading and doing what works most of the time, and i do fairly well.

jumping over nair? isnt being in the air against most characters (marth included) a terrible Idea? I know its awful against falcon and ganon, because their up airs beat everything.

Mostly its bad because you only have a certain area that you can land, and you dont have full control over your movement anymore. You have to fall down, theres only 2 speeds at which you can do so, and if you arent puff or peach, theres a VERY limited area of where you can land. add that to the fact that marths up tilt is crazy disjointed and comboes into everything he has, and I have to ask why you would suggest jumping over the nair

Also, are you sure about the fair not being able to block approaches? if your in the air moving toward the opponent i could see how that concept works, but if your doing retreating fairs, they are sooooo much better for covering yourself in just about every situation. because it may not be as fast as I think, you might have to have a small bit of predictionto make it work but melee is all about camping and being defensive, so retreating fairs are much more powerful.

Although I would much rather talk about why you think Im all of a sudden, such a terrible part of/influence on the community.

 

[RTF]

Marth's aerials are good but they are the only way he can ever get punished

SCC - Mango (Puff) vs Mew2King (Marth) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNCPGgZ_3ak

Marth seemed to be pretty safe when using aerials (at least in this matchup). In terms of nair (2:25) being bad (from the ledge), there's always neutral B (2:50). Maybe a little specific, idk.

you only need to have mastery and control over what you DO know

Translation: know everything and don't mess up XD
The latter of which being the reason why I did well at the last RIT tourney.

As far as best character goes, I'd guess marth or jiggz based primarily on their range.

 

[TheManaLord]

the only char that can win the biggest tournies is jiggs


and zhenaki, you especially I will get a hold of when I have my events in oswego over the summer. didn't another guy pop up near you recently? that's great news. i'll be in touch for sure but not until another few weeks, i've been insanely busy with real life y''all, in fact, i'm in florida right now, tomorrow i'll be in white plains, then i have to go to lake george after that, then to oswego a day after that D: too much travel =(

 

[BluePeachy100]

I'm with Goggles on this one. I think the most potential ganon has is top 8, top 4 AT THE MOST. But I dunno, I won't completely shut out the idea of Ganon winnning. I mean, Melee's Metagame is constantly changing. Hell, Mango lost because of his lack of experience/knowledge in the MU, it can happen to anyone who doesn't know it, so yeah. In a sense I guess that it's possible.

There's like no ICs, though. Only Wobbles and Fly_Amanita(at least that I know) Now Peach and Shiek ESPCIALLY. They likely have the most potential for winning a national. I'm not gonna say just Armada like he's the only one that matters, but keep in mind, 4-5 Peaches did place VERY well at Genesis. Shiek is an interesting character, all of the styles that can be shown with her, with any character is just incredible, Amsah, Mew2king, Over. It seems to me if People were advancing Shiek more, then Shiek would definately have the potential to win, it just always seems like nobody really has faith in her.

I decided that I would pick up Shiek as my main, as well. Falco's really fun, so is Fox, I also now have the techskill I need to play them well(I had the best Techskill in Buffalo =D), even at intermediate, to somewhat high level. But, since I don't really have a copy of Melee/barely anyone to play, I've been playing a lot more Brawl lately. My techskill is deteriorating. I'll NEVER EVER abandon Melee. I'd just rather not play against people like Alexei well, because... Quite frankly, he's a royal ***, and being around him make me want to whip a book as hard as I can at his face. He's really mean to me, and it discourages me from playing Melee in general, even if Clogger, and some of our other Smashers are at Smash Club, he always just finds time to pick me out and be a complete douchebag to me...

As much as I don't want to beat the sh*t out of him, it may come to that point if he keeps f**king with me, I've been solely avoiding Smash Club because of it, but I feel if I do, he's gonna push me too far, and I'm conna have to leave his f**king jaw wired. I prefer not fighting, though. ;_;

Anyway, I've taken up enough times... to anyone who red the post. SMOOTHIES ON ME[/lie]

 

[Zhenkai]

I couldn't answer back, Jess, cuz I was at work. XD But now cuz of the talk, I shall add some words...probably dumb ones. XD

First off, the whole tech skill thing. I've been trying to work on that myself, but always screw up, though in the long run, you don't truly need to be amazing with it. Even a slight amount of tech skill at the right moment can make something that's been seen or done a thousand times over so much better. The main cause in why I believe people mess up tech skill in matches, either friendlies or tourney, is they want to be flashy for their audience. Sorry, but that will only end up in you making a crucial mistake and having it cost either some % or an entire stock, which can, and in some cases, will be the losing factor to a match.

I'll use myself as an example real quick of trying "flashy" moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhp1sl0p9SI
At 0:49 I try one of those flyin' off the stage Falcon Punches and get myself to try and recover it. I easily can, but as you see, I get myself too close to the stage and become caught under it. Result? I lose a stock. Another is at 1:45, where I could've just went with another uair to knock Doc backwards and a better chance to get a kill, I try for a knee which leads me to being knocked off the stage and almost another stock loss. Lets get another Falcon Punch show off failure, at 2:25. I pass up a chance at either a bair to knock Marth into the stage, or a dair, etc, the options are open but wasted.

There's not much tech skill I can show with Falcon on FD, but my point stands. Tech skill mishaps/flashiness can/will lead to worse outcomes, and should only be used when you know you can afford it, but meh, that's me.

As for the whole Marth topic? Eh, I'll stay out of it, I just mess 'round with him when I'm bored. XD

And Mana, definately man, if you want I'll give ya my phone number, you can call or text me whenever and keep me informed dude. Heh, have fun with the travels man.

 

[BluePeachy100]

Oh yah, I FINALLY went ahead and got AIM... uhm... yeah. >///>

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ganon cant win national tourneys
neither can falcon

Ganon has come really freaking close, but I'm not gonna argue cuz I don't think he can either, I just say Maybe cuz who knows what else that fa$$ot is capable of. It's not like Kage has taken the character as far as he can go. There's more room for potential. Falcon is the same deal. Mango may be able to win with all Falcon, but maybe not.

ICs

Ic's definitely can Chu did it once at Pound 2, and if he didn't stop playing he'd probably have won more. They are also another character that have been taken to a really high level, but if someone was as good as Mango or M2K or Armada, they'd do even better.

peach and sheik are really iffy for me. it doesnt seem like they should be able to, but armada and amsah seem to make it work.

They def can. Sheik just needs to play suuuuper smart, and Peach just needs to cover options perfectly and space her hitboxes well, which no Peach besides Armada really does to the level taht it needs to be done. Her combos are just as good as top tiers.

and melee tech skill to you is the same as good reading ability in brawl, thats why i enjoy it so much.

I get that, but here's the thing. At high levels of Melee play, the situations are JUST LIKE BRAWL in terms of having to read them, but the thing is, some players can't see them because they just keep getting death combod over and over, and it's so fast they just say "I'm just getting comboed how is there skill involved in this"

I heard Neil say "Melee is just about covering options and reacting." Here's the thing. Vs lower level players that's true, and if you can get super good at covering options and reacting, then players below you get DEMOLISHED, which makes Melee seem like a game that's all about ridiculous combos.

Once you start to break it down and realize how many options there are, then you start to learn the guessing games. Then you start to learn "Oh, they can do this...I can do either this or this, and if they do This, then I'm going to have to do this." Then you realize...Wtf. This is just like Brawl, but with more **** to worry about, and harder punishes.

I can play Melee like Brawl. I can play Melee EXACTLY like Brawl. I could up throw you with Marth, then either wait for you to land with an aerial, or double jump and punish, etc. Next time I play some of you ask me to make Melee like Brawl and I will. I do it to **** with people sometimes cuz it's fun. There's just so much more that's more fun though lol...Anyways, getting sidetracked.

also note that depending on the skill level you are talking about, you dont need to master everything about a character to do well, you only need to have mastery and control over what you DO know. I think im a prime example, I dont know how to do much with ganon outside of spacing and reading and doing what works most of the time, and i do fairly well.

I'm talking about max skill level, like, top top level of playing, in which case you need to know your character inside and out for the most part.

jumping over nair? isnt being in the air against most characters (marth included) a terrible Idea? I know its awful against falcon and ganon, because their up airs beat everything.

Characters like Fox and Falco are in the air lots, just for short periods of time since their SHFFL's are really fast. When Marth goes in the air he's in trouble cuz is jump takes long since he's floaty, so he's very vulnerable. Sheik in the air isn't that bad, cuz she can fair and needle and swat people away easily since it comes out so fast.

Mostly its bad because you only have a certain area that you can land, and you dont have full control over your movement anymore. You have to fall down, theres only 2 speeds at which you can do so, and if you arent puff or peach, theres a VERY limited area of where you can land. add that to the fact that marths up tilt is crazy disjointed and comboes into everything he has, and I have to ask why you would suggest jumping over the nair

well, Marth can side b stall, fair, nair, waveland back etc. I'm not even talking about that though, I'm talking about very subtle things like when Marth short hops backwards to adjust his spacing. It's good sometimes, but if the opponent happens to come in and attack (like fox's nair) as you start the shorthop, Marth can't react fast enough to get the fair out.

Also, are you sure about the fair not being able to block approaches? if your in the air moving toward the opponent i could see how that concept works, but if your doing retreating fairs, they are sooooo much better for covering yourself in just about every situation. because it may not be as fast as I think, you might have to have a small bit of predictionto make it work but melee is all about camping and being defensive, so retreating fairs are much more powerful.

Fair can block approaches, and I use it to block approaches. But like you said I have to predict the approach. What happens if they just Dash Dance back and forth, I fair and they come in and grab me? That's how I get like 75% of my hits off vs noobs. I just dd and they attack thinking I'm coming in or they're going to hit me out of my dd, and i just grab in their lag.

I'm with Goggles on this one. I think the most potential ganon has is top 8, top 4 AT THE MOST. But I dunno, I won't completely shut out the idea of Ganon winnning. I mean, Melee's Metagame is constantly changing. Hell, Mango lost because of his lack of experience/knowledge in the MU, it can happen to anyone who doesn't know it, so yeah. In a sense I guess that it's possible.

lol dude, mango did not lose cuz of lack of matchup experience lollll he's the best player in the world for a reason dude. He lost cuz he was hungover as **** that's why.

There's like no ICs, though. Only Wobbles and Fly_Amanita(at least that I know) Now Peach and Shiek ESPCIALLY. They likely have the most potential for winning a national. I'm not gonna say just Armada like he's the only one that matters, but keep in mind, 4-5 Peaches did place VERY well at Genesis. Shiek is an interesting character, all of the styles that can be shown with her, with any character is just incredible, Amsah, Mew2king, Over. It seems to me if People were advancing Shiek more, then Shiek would definately have the potential to win, it just always seems like nobody really has faith in her.

Cuz you have to play super smart with sheik and peach. You have to play very smart with fox and falco too at high levels of play, but things are less automatic with Sheik and Peach so you need more prediction skill. Once you have it though, they're just as devastating.

I decided that I would pick up Shiek as my main, as well. Falco's really fun, so is Fox, I also now have the techskill I need to play them well(I had the best Techskill in Buffalo =D), even at intermediate, to somewhat high level. But, since I don't really have a copy of Melee/barely anyone to play, I've been playing a lot more Brawl lately. My techskill is deteriorating. I'll NEVER EVER abandon Melee. I'd just rather not play against people like Alexei well, because... Quite frankly, he's a royal ***, and being around him make me want to whip a book as hard as I can at his face. He's really mean to me, and it discourages me from playing Melee in general, even if Clogger, and some of our other Smashers are at Smash Club, he always just finds time to pick me out and be a complete douchebag to me...

Ok, so here's what you do. Instead of letting him stop you from going to Smash club, you sit down and play with him. Either put some headphones on, or everytmie he talks ****, just ignore it and in your head just say, "its only a matter of time before I get better than you." and everything he does just analyze it. And when he talks **** to you, just tell yourself he's an idiot for doing that ****, and that you're going to be beating him soon. You have to have faith in yourself that you will get better. I used to get TRASHED by neil in the beginning he used to laugh at me and **** but now we're friends lol.

I couldn't answer back, Jess, cuz I was at work. XD But now cuz of the talk, I shall add some words...probably dumb ones. XD

First off, the whole tech skill thing. I've been trying to work on that myself, but always screw up, though in the long run, you don't truly need to be amazing with it. Even a slight amount of tech skill at the right moment can make something that's been seen or done a thousand times over so much better. The main cause in why I believe people mess up tech skill in matches, either friendlies or tourney, is they want to be flashy for their audience. Sorry, but that will only end up in you making a crucial mistake and having it cost either some % or an entire stock, which can, and in some cases, will be the losing factor to a match.

At the highest levels of play, here's where your tech skill needs to be. It's too vague to say you need to know everything technical and learn how to execute it perfectly. What you need to happen is have your tech skill be so fluid, that you don't even think about your fingers moving. It's as if you're controlling your character with your thoughts, because everything is coming out perfectly. Regardless of whether or not that's Jump Cancel shining, or just wavedashing is irrelevant. Whatever you WANT to do, needs to come out perfectly. That's what good tech skill is all about. You have to be smart to know what to do and how to punish, but you need to have good tech skill to execute properly. Idc if you're trying to punish Marth by up throw up airing, or by shine-> instant Usmashing..One is more technical than the other, but they both kill him. As long as you get the kill though, it doesn't matter.

There's not much tech skill I can show with Falcon on FD, but my point stands. Tech skill mishaps/flashiness can/will lead to worse outcomes, and should only be used when you know you can afford it, but meh, that's me.

I guess, like being flashy is too vague though. Like, if Fox edgehogs sheik and forces her back on the stage when her percent is close to killing range, but you're not sure a Usmash will kill her....Maybe it's best to Shine--> WD --> Usmash to get that extra percent in and guarantee the kill...But what if they Smash DI the Shine? Maybe you're going to want to Uthrow Uair them? But Sheik can Smash DI the Uair...See, it's just guessing and judgement.

 

[da K.I.D.]

the only char that can win the biggest tournies is jiggs

Ganon is the only one I can immediately think of off the top of my head, but arent there a few lower tier characters that do pretty good vs jiggz?

Id say that from a who can beat the characters youd find in grand finals position, Jiggz is the best, but from a covering the entire cast and making it to grand finals position, Id be more inclined to say marth or fox is the best.

and zhenaki, you especially I will get a hold of when I have my events in oswego over the summer. didn't another guy pop up near you recently? that's great news.

That would be flaw

First off, the whole tech skill thing. I've been trying to work on that myself, but always screw up, though in the long run, you don't truly need to be amazing with it. Even a slight amount of tech skill at the right moment can make something that's been seen or done a thousand times over so much better. The main cause in why I believe people mess up tech skill in matches, either friendlies or tourney, is they want to be flashy for their audience. Sorry, but that will only end up in you making a crucial mistake and having it cost either some % or an entire stock, which can, and in some cases, will be the losing factor to a match.

I lost a match to dudutsai once because I tried to WIzard kick spike him offstage. What you are saying is true. and is the reason for a few of the people around here not doing as well as they could.

for the most part, anything that I do in a serious match, is somethign ive done 15000 times in the past before, and its jsut muscle memory so I know im not going to mess it up. Is it cool to see a ganon spacing a retreating fair to jab 100 times within the span of 15 minutes? Probably not. Is it cool to see a ganon do down throw to aerial 25 times in a set? Also no. but is it effective and does it win games? I dont know about any ganons anywhere else but it sure does here.

Oh yah, I FINALLY went ahead and got AIM... uhm... yeah. >///>

you wanna hit us up with a screen name there buddy?

Ganon has come really freaking close, but I'm not gonna argue cuz I don't think he can either, I just say Maybe cuz who knows what else that fa$$ot is capable of. It's not like Kage has taken the character as far as he can go. There's more room for potential. Falcon is the same deal. Mango may be able to win with all Falcon, but maybe not.

1. Ganons inherent qualities in the game dont really make him good enough to beat any of the top tiers imo. the only reason he stands a chance normally is because the normal ganon playstyle kind of clashes against the basic play style of some other characters. like marth. marth is used to going for grabs and spacing fair. ganons are usually going to basically do the same thing except that ganons fair can beat out marths alot of the time and I think ganons grab game is way better than marths, at least in that matchup. and with jiggly, if you play the bounce around, pokey, hit and run type of puff. if you have a ganon and a puff both trying to space bairs, the ganon is usually going to win that due to having a bigger bair, and only needing 5 bairs to kill puff based on the stage.

2. Does mango actually win tourneys with falcon? if so I dont think its because falcon is capable, but more that mango is that much smarter than the people he plays against. and yes I do know who he plays against.

Ic's definitely can Chu did it once at Pound 2, and if he didn't stop playing he'd probably have won more. They are also another character that have been taken to a really high level, but if someone was as good as Mango or M2K or Armada, they'd do even better.

Hasnt wobbles still been playing all this time?
I just think that melee is so fast and ICs seem to require way too much set up for stuff that a lot of the time, they just wont be able to keep up.

They def can. Sheik just needs to play suuuuper smart, and Peach just needs to cover options perfectly and space her hitboxes well, which no Peach besides Armada really does to the level taht it needs to be done. Her combos are just as good as top tiers.

That says to me that sheik and peach are overal worse characters if they need more precision to play at the same level.

I get that, but here's the thing. At high levels of Melee play, the situations are JUST LIKE BRAWL in terms of having to read them, but the thing is, some players can't see them because they just keep getting death combod over and over, and it's so fast they just say "I'm just getting comboed how is there skill involved in this"

Its just that after the first hit, the reads you have to make are SOOOO much easier. and theres such a tiny window to escape, a lot of the time, it might as well not even be there.
When Im getting comboed, I can get lucky, and aerial/double jump out of a combo. But aerials only work if the opponent isnt fast enough on the follow ups, and jumping just gets you land camped so it really doesnt help much at all. but sometimes ill have to do like 4 different moves just to reset the situation, because the defensive options are just that bad. Ill have to double jump an attack, waveland away, and than roll again in a random direction just to get away from somebody because they can follow you all the time. and those are the GOOD options, some times you get desperate and attempt to airdodge something, and get away SOLELY on the premise that its a terrible idea and nobody would expect it.

Plus, its really hard to turn those situations around. unless your opponent is bad. in brawl, you can shuttle loop/nade/spring/airdodge, an attack, and then, youre back on the offensive.but once again, the offensive position isnt so powerful that you dont have to continue out thinking them, even after you reverse the roles.

I heard Neil say "Melee is just about covering options and reacting." Here's the thing. Vs lower level players that's true, and if you can get super good at covering options and reacting, then players below you get DEMOLISHED, which makes Melee seem like a game that's all about ridiculous combos.

well you dont play fighters outside of smash but most fighters in general are about covering options and reacting. mainly how you go about doing that, and what happens when somebody actually gets a hit off determines how you feel about the game.

Example, I used to love Tekken but now I cant stand it. the process of covering options amounts to everybody doing these really ugly slide-duck wavedash type moves. and than when somebody does land it hit. It goes into this rediculous string of attacks, where half of them pick you up off of the floor with moves that have virtually 0 explaination why they hit, that you cant do anything about, and take anywhere from a 3rd to half of your health at once.

Once you start to break it down and realize how many options there are, then you start to learn the guessing games. Then you start to learn "Oh, they can do this...I can do either this or this, and if they do This, then I'm going to have to do this." Then you realize...Wtf. This is just like Brawl, but with more **** to worry about, and harder punishes.

and thats when you realise that all your options directly following getting hit, are god-awful. one person has the advantage, and he can pretty much hold that advantage, teh entire stock unless you get lucky or the person you are playing against is bad. thats not to say you shouldnt gain an advantage from landing a hit on somebody but with melee a lot of the time, you can get away but the only thing you can do is reset the situation to neutral. With street fighter, its even harder to stop the other player from pushing his advantage, but your methods are usually offensive, and successfully countering puts them in the really bad position. Brawl I think has both of those factors, while at the same time giving the player who landed a hit an advantage.

I can play Melee like Brawl. I can play Melee EXACTLY like Brawl. I could up throw you with Marth, then either wait for you to land with an aerial, or double jump and punish, etc. Next time I play some of you ask me to make Melee like Brawl and I will. I do it to **** with people sometimes cuz it's fun. There's just so much more that's more fun though lol...Anyways, getting sidetracked.

Id quite like to see this, or rather, fight this.

I'm talking about max skill level, like, top top level of playing, in which case you need to know your character inside and out for the most part.

I assumed as much.

Fair can block approaches, and I use it to block approaches. But like you said I have to predict the approach. What happens if they just Dash Dance back and forth, I fair and they come in and grab me? That's how I get like 75% of my hits off vs noobs. I just dd and they attack thinking I'm coming in or they're going to hit me out of my dd, and i just grab in their lag.

I wish I had the luxury of being able to punish marth fair with a grab like that.

Cuz you have to play super smart with sheik and peach. You have to play very smart with fox and falco too at high levels of play, but things are less automatic with Sheik and Peach so you need more prediction skill. Once you have it though, they're just as devastating.

See my shiek/peach comment above

Ok, so here's what you do. Instead of letting him stop you from going to Smash club, you sit down and play with him. Either put some headphones on, or everytmie he talks ****, just ignore it and in your head just say, "its only a matter of time before I get better than you." and everything he does just analyze it. And when he talks **** to you, just tell yourself he's an idiot for doing that ****, and that you're going to be beating him soon. You have to have faith in yourself that you will get better.

Yea son, hes not THAT good, just keep working and youll be beating him soon enough.

Also, if it really bothers you. just trash talk him about every positive thing you ever do. even if you get schlacked.

every time you take a stock be like, yo, thats not suppose to happen... I thought you were better than armada? every time you grab be like, Jesse/KID/Neil/mana wouldnt have gotten grabbed there.

odds are, he'll get just as pissed and start messing up.

I used to get TRASHED by neil in the beginning he used to laugh at me and **** but now we're friends lol.

lol this.

At the highest levels of play, here's where your tech skill needs to be. It's too vague to say you need to know everything technical and learn how to execute it perfectly. What you need to happen is have your tech skill be so fluid, that you don't even think about your fingers moving. It's as if you're controlling your character with your thoughts, because everything is coming out perfectly. Regardless of whether or not that's Jump Cancel shining, or just wavedashing is irrelevant. Whatever you WANT to do, needs to come out perfectly. That's what good tech skill is all about. You have to be smart to know what to do and how to punish, but you need to have good tech skill to execute properly. Idc if you're trying to punish Marth by up throw up airing, or by shine-> instant Usmashing..One is more technical than the other, but they both kill him. As long as you get the kill though, it doesn't matter.

I cant count the number of people ive said this too. I think I wanna sig this because of how well you worded it.

I guess, like being flashy is too vague though. Like, if Fox edgehogs sheik and forces her back on the stage when her percent is close to killing range, but you're not sure a Usmash will kill her....Maybe it's best to Shine--> WD --> Usmash to get that extra percent in and guarantee the kill...But what if they Smash DI the Shine? Maybe you're going to want to Uthrow Uair them? But Sheik can Smash DI the Uair...See, it's just guessing and judgement.

Everyone here should know teh difference between flashy and effective.

Its when you do a move in-game, do you think to yourself

"this is gonna kill em' dead!"
or
"this'll get the crowd oooing and ahhing."[

its not like the two are mutually exclusive, but that mindset question is usually really good at telling the difference

 

[Gaia_x]

Interesting!

 

[Foy]

But not interesting enough. This is Jesiah btw too drunk to post something epic but I wlil def later

 

[JesiahTEG]

Yeah, I think I like Melee better cuz here's why: You hit them, you can potentially kill them if you have the tech skill and execute correctly. Brawl it's like: You hit them, then do some ***** **** to get some damage off, then reset back to neutral.

*****, if you get hit it's your fault. No second chances, learn how to play better please.

 

[da K.I.D.]

learn how to play better and win multiple exchanges instead of just getting in one time and deathing somebody because of it.

or you could play ICs in brawl, that seems like it would be right up your alley.

only takes one read to kill, madd techskill and muscle memory... seems perfect for you.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Learn to get the first hit, the first time.

Done.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Lol soooooooo good

 

[da K.I.D.]

Learn to get the first hit, the first time.

Done.

Learn to get the first hit, EVERY time.

 

[BluePeachy100]

my AIM is feverdesire, btw. Everything else I wanted was in use. >_>

im trying what Kid said, in addition to listening to music so I don't have to hear his mouth. lol. typing on a Wii is very tedious.

 

[da K.I.D.]

yo... thats kinda gay

 

[san.]

I need to get tsai to teach me jiggs or something. I'm said I never played jiggs outside of single player for like the 6-7 years I played melee.


Anyways, any info regarding pre-MLG smashfests? All I'll be doing is just playing SMG2 over the next couple days (only ~20 stars in so far) so I was just wondering.