Up Tilt is serious broken - Projectile Canceling Project

[SuSa]

This is a project I have started to see what projectiles we can cancel with up tilt. It has a very long hitbox (Eternal said it is our longest lasting hitbox) therefore I chose this over our ftilt (which can also cancel projectiles) but I also want ease of timing, so for some I will be testing ftilt.

I will also put how HARD it is to cancel the projectile without taking damage.

Powershielding is always better then the following options. The following options are used mostly for lulz, or when you really do want to land that utilt. (It will cancel projectiles + hit your opponent)

Using this, you have 23 frames of lag. If you powershield, you have far less. However if you normal shield you may have more. (blockhitlag + blockstun) so do you trust yourself to powershield? -- I'll look into which are actually worth up tilting if any when I get back to work on frame data.

I'm also putting it up here because it's a good mind**** against Lucas. LOLOLOL[/i]



Projectiles Canceled by Uptilt:

Lucas
PK FIRE ***** really hard

Link
Gale Boomerang * really easy
Arrows * to **** depends if they are charged or not, he can cancel both however
Bombs are impossible, you blow them up and their hitbox is large enough to hit you - even with perfect spacing.

Mario
Fireball * really easy

Luigi
Fireball * really easy

Peach
Turnips * really easy

Diddy Kong
Peanuts ** pretty easy

Ice Climbers
Ice blocks * hits them away

Lucario
Aura Sphere up to 117% Fully charged
uncharged always
really easy

Samus
All but a FULLY CHARGED Beam Shot. But a grenade will stop that easily. =]

Easy to time.

Ivysaur
Razor Leaf

Pikachu
Thunderjolt

R.O.B
Gyro (Charged and uncharged)
Can deflect Gyro with certain timings.

Pit
Arrows (Charged and uncharged) (hard to time apparently)


Stun Gun (Charged and uncharged)
Will stop armour pieces?

Olimar
Will kill pikmin, but STALES UP TILT.

Wario
Bike Tires - cancels them out.


~~ More Coming Soon ~~

(Doing this before I do frame data, and after I do Sheik's JJC frame advantage frame data)

 

[Limeee]

can't wait for more updates

 

[nevershootme]

Pit's arrow stops with u-tilte... end of story

 

[Neon Ness]

Projectiles Canceled by Uptilt:

Lucas
PK FIRE ***** really hard

...Yikes. That's a scary thought. Goodbye, spacing tool.

Funny thing is I don't ever remember Solid Snake doing anything that even resembles his up tilt in any of the MGS games, so I can't help but wonder where this brokenness comes from.

 

[misterpimp5757]

its comes from the mighty gods of brokenness.....

but anyways..would there b a timing for the pkfire and the uptilt?

we should also remember that uptilt and ftilt detonates snakes dsmash.

 

[etecoon]

Funny thing is I don't ever remember Solid Snake doing anything that even resembles his up tilt in any of the MGS games, so I can't help but wonder where this brokenness comes from.

Maybe not this exact move but I can tell you where that brokenness comes from

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXTPS5pfeFI&feature=related

it's the nanomachines.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I'm 99% sure that Snake's UTilt stops Peach's turnips (and quite easily, too). It probably stops Pikachu's Thunder Jolts too.

That's my (miniscule) contribution to this project.

 

[Tiender Bocks]

His U-tilt hits the Ice Climber's ice blocks away from him, if that's any help.

 

[SuSa]

Snake can cancel any Non-lazer, non-waddle (which stales utilt btw) projectile.

We can cancel TL's projectiles, Din's Fire, (I don't think Sheik's needles... sadly. lol), Rob's Gyro (90% sure) but not his laser. Don't think we can stop Kirby's up-B (the blue projectile part), we can stop Olimars pikmin but that stales our up tilt.

We can cancel Sonic's Spring.

80% sure we can cancel Samus/Lucario's B moves.

<_< I'll test all this, I was up all night doing frame data so I never really got around to it.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Wow, that's really ****.

*goes to learn Snake*

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Snake can cancel any Non-lazer, non-waddle (which stales utilt btw) projectile.

We can cancel TL's projectiles, Din's Fire, (I don't think Sheik's needles... sadly. lol), Rob's Gyro (90% sure) but not his laser. Don't think we can stop Kirby's up-B (the blue projectile part), we can stop Olimars pikmin but that stales our up tilt.

We can cancel Sonic's Spring.

80% sure we can cancel Samus/Lucario's B moves.

<_< I'll test all this, I was up all night doing frame data so I never really got around to it.

Utilt will stop lucario's B attack when Lucario is at low percents, but it gains priority as lucario's strength increases.
Edit: We can cancel out Lucario's B attack at every percent between 0%-116%. Anything above 117%, we can no longer cancel the B attack.
Edit: We can cancel Samus's B attack when it's not fully charged. When it it, we cannot cancel with against it.
Edit: We can cancel Zero Suit Samus's B attack when fully charged and not fully charged.
Edit: Utilt Kills pikmin that are thrown.
Edit: Like NeverShootMe said, Utilt will cancel out with Pit's fully charged and not fully charged arrows (good luck timing it, I had to go to 1/2 speed to get it right).
Edit: Utilt will cancel Robs fully charged Gyro, and even one time it got rickoeted off of snake's uptilt changing directions and went straight up o.o Most of the time it canceled.
Edit: Cancel's with Pikachu's B attack.
Edit: Cancel's with Ivysaurs SideB attack.

That's everyone that I found stuff for.

 

[SuSa]

Up Tilt stops a fully charged aura sphere until 117% (at 118% it will no longer cancel) however we can always cancel uncharged aura spheres at any %.

****.

 

[DanGR]

Note that your up tilt will not stale from canceling a projectile, and you can hit your opponent and cancel their projectile with the same up tilt. (Exception to this rule seems to be Diddy's Peanuts)

Your moves will stale if you hit Olimar's pikmin as well.

 

[SuSa]

Your moves will stale if you hit Olimar's pikmin as well.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7935547&postcount=9


*whistles*

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

We can cancel Zero Suit Samus's B attack when fully charged and not fully charged.

Like NeverShootMe said, Utilt will cancel out with Pit's fully charged and not fully charged arrows (good luck timing it, I had to go to 1/2 speed to get it right).

Utilt will cancel Robs fully charged Gyro, and even one time it got rickoeted off of snake's uptilt changing directions and went straight up o.o Most of the time it canceled.

Cancel's with Pikachu's B attack.

Cancel's with Ivysaurs SideB attack.

This stuff hasn't been added to the list yet.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

What about holding down jab to cancel projectiles? I know it works against the thunderjolt, and may actually be slightly more practical than the uptilt.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I'll test that. This thread reminds me of the "Yoshi is a ninja thread". I'm sure there are other attacks that can negate stuff life ftilt.

BTW, utilt is our SECOND longest lasting hitbox. The winner is teh box.

 

[SuSa]

Ftilt does. I'm wondering if they have varying lag.

Also Panda, doesn't rapid Jab hit only once every other frame? Meaning a projectile MAY possibly get through? Also it's not disjionted enough to stop Lucas's Pk Fire.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I think it's once ever 5 frames that jab hits. I'll test this and be back tonight with results.
Maybe an aerial can help us here too.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Double Post or not, here it is.

Snake's auto fire jab hits once every 6 frames.



What can negate said projectile.
I tested Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair.
Fireballs < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Fireballs < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Turnips < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
(can't test grandpa vegetable due to rarity)
Bob-Ombs < NO. They explode
Peanuts(fully charged) < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair(seems to have Snake pick it up at times)
Egg < utilt (only when spaced perfectly)
Bike parts < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Arrows(fully charged) < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Gale Boomerang < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Bomb < NO. They explode
Din's fire < utilt, bair
:shiek: Needles < none
Arrows(fully charged) < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Boomerang < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Bombs< NO
Charge Shot(not charged) < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Charge Shot(Fully charged) < Nothing
Homing Missle < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Super Missle < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Bombs < Nothing
Paralyzer Beam < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Armor parts < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Arrows < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Icicle block < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Top < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Final Cutter < Nothing.
Waddle Dee < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Waddle Doo < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Gordo < NO
Pikmin throw All < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Note: Lasers are the anti-Ninja.
Thunder Jolt < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Razor Leaf < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Aura Sphere <50% < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Aura Sphere over 50% < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
Aura Sphere over 100% < Utilt and bair
Aura Sphere over 150% < Utilt and bair
Aura Sphere over 200% < NO
All of these are fully charged.
PK fire < NO
PK Fire < utilt only
Sausages < Utilt, Jab, ftilt, ftilt2, and bair
< Grenades NO
Nikita< NO

 

[Zajice]

Wow. I love Snake even more now.


Also, hate lasers more now.

 

[Attila_]

much easier to cancel most projectiles with ftilt btw. pretty much anything small gets cancelled easy, and it has both less start up and cool down...

 

[napZzz]

Stopping something with snakes bair would be super awesomez.

 

[TEECO]

Laser < NO


That was pretty cool of you to test eternal yoshi

 

[Attila_]

snakes jab doesnt blow up nades btw, but it does stop them and make them go away a little, which is kinda like cancelling them... i do this when nades are thrown at me at close range sometimes, cause it immediately pushes the nade back to them.

 

[TEECO]

Negating the grenade doesn't consist of just stopping it's motion. Preventing its explosion and motion would. Not useful at all though. No good player will throw a grenade at you close range.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

After looking at all of those projectiles, I cannot really fathom how any of the moves that Snake has are really even worth considering. Powershielding stops all of those projectiles, it's faster, easier to time, and can be applied during a dash to actually try to punish projectile usage. In a move your stuck standing still.

The only situation that I can possibly see is where it ends up hitting the person at the same time it cancels the projectile. Which frankly would require the person to be right in your face at the time.

Can anyone think of any practical scenarios for someone to want to consider using the attack instead of the powershielding?

Stopping something with snakes bair would be super awesomez.

That would seem really cool, but practical limitations

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

When your shield is about to break.

Bair is only recommended for Ally level Snakes only.

 

[SuSa]

I use FH bairs to cancel some projectiles, it makes approaching Peach when are forced to an easier task. So long as you shield on landing expecting an fair.

 

[napZzz]

When your shield is about to break.

Bair is only recommended for Ally level Snakes only.

but the only snake of an ally level is the ally himself. D:

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Anyone got the stun frames that a canceling of a projectile will cause? And is it different than if a Utilt cancels vs a jab? That sort of thing.

but the only snake of an ally level is the ally himself. D:

What are all of the levels of Snake?

There is a sheepish level, a canadian level (aka Ally level), a candy level, and a retro afro level.

There must be more.

 

[SuSa]

It's an amazing 23 frames for you upon clanking.

 

[Vecayse]

The timing to cancel Pit's arrows is pretty hard, plus It's not really a good option to cancel an arrow with an utilt cos the Pit can continue to spam uncharged arrows during ending lag.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It's an amazing 23 frames for you upon clanking.

Wow, 23 frames of lag <_< I really dont' fell compelled to try to block any projectiles with an attack. No matter how cool it would be to just whip out the attack anytime they try to throw a projectile at you, and you would just be like, "DENIED!" again and again to them. Installing a since of dread that there camping cannot get past your br0keness....

I think I may have just convince myself to try to clank with projectiles.

 

[SuSa]

"
Shield
Guard animation finishes at frame 8
2

Shield Drop
8
16"

Meaning to powershield, I think it's 16 frames. A non-powershield has to go through blockhitlag and blockstun. (I think projectiles have blockhitlag?) Meaning if those 2 things combined are more then 7 frames, unless you powershield. Up tilt is better.

I'll have to do more frame testing. >.<

 

[luffyfan99]

i kinda known about it canceling projectiles, but it doesnt stale (except for pikmin)

ill practice and use this a lil more often

 

[Ken Neth]

I have a question, it might of been answered already but whatever /too lazy to read the whole thread

When his utilt clanks with a projectile does that count as staling the move? Or does it count as not hitting anything and has no effect on stale moves?

Edit: LOL I read the OP, but not the last page. I feel stupid now that my question was answered one post above mine.

 

[Ruuku]

For Ness' PK fire, I'm pretty sure that up tilt will not cancel it but will "activate" the fire from a distance. At least that's what happened when I was doing some tests a few months ago.

 

[luke_atyeo]

ok so while this is all good I have 2 questions,
1: does the first hit of ftilt work on everything that uptilt does
and 2: can we also test which projectiles we can cancel out with jab 1 super spam (hold A down)
because the jab version would have less lag I would assume and be much easier to time.

 

[SuSa]

It's pretty much all the same that I know of.. except Lucas/Ness PK fires will hit you because the disjoints aren't large enough.