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Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

Lenidem

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
886
Just because the Melee Box Art in North America used the phrase Nintendo All Stars does not mean the series is still about that or ever was
It wasn't just on the box art, it also appears in game, during the intro.

Smash nowadays, according to it's own creator, is about Gaming All Stars and is Gaming's Greatest Crossover. I think I would trust the opinions of Sakurai over yours.
That's just boasting. Pretending your game is about "gaming as a whole" is way more selling than "it's about one company". And even if he sincerely believes it, that doesn't mean he succeeded in doing what he wanted. Or do you genuinely believe that Rosalina, the Ice Climbers, Dr Mario, Chrom, Falco, Olimar or Incineroar, to name a few, are more important to "gaming" than Lara Croft, Eggman, Master Chief, and many others ?
 
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TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,420
NNID
TCT~Phantom
It wasn't just on the box art, it also appears in game, during the intro.

That's just boasting. Pretending your game is about "gaming as a whole" is way more selling than "it's about one company". And even if he sincerely believes it, that doesn't mean he succeeded in doing what he wanted. Or do you genuinely believe that Rosalina, the Ice Climbers, Dr Mario, Chrom, Falco, Olimar or Incineroar, to name a few, are more important to "gaming" than Lara Croft, Eggman, Master Chief, and many others ?
You don't get representation like that overnight. Look at how Smash's inclusions have trended with third parties becoming the norm. Almost half of the newcomers selected for Ultimate were third party, and you can argue that all of those have their place in a celebration of gaming. Obviously there will alwasy be holes to fill in terms of big franchises third party wise. But considering in this game alone we got massive series like Tekken, Castlevania, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, and Minecraft, the most iconic gaming villain not in Smash, an old school pick that influenced fighting games and smash through Terry, a masssive fan request in Banjo, and the biggest JRPG in the past 15 years with Persona 5, I would say that yeah, Smash has made that transition.

Given how the series dropped the Nintendo All Stars moniker after Melee and what has been chosen, I think you can see that Smash has transitioned more into Gaming as a whole instead of just Nintendo. it is likely the next game will have even more third parties that will help with that.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
See, I’m just trying to say the series is connected to nintendo not that it’s important to nintendo

I don’t think bayonetta is important to nintendo though, and that’s not what I was trying to argue. I was saying that it’s connected to nintendo, not that it’s necessarily important to the brand
anything thats been on a nintendo console is connected to nintendo.
 
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Lenidem

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
886
You don't get representation like that overnight. Look at how Smash's inclusions have trended with third parties becoming the norm. Almost half of the newcomers selected for Ultimate were third party, and you can argue that all of those have their place in a celebration of gaming. Obviously there will alwasy be holes to fill in terms of big franchises third party wise. But considering in this game alone we got massive series like Tekken, Castlevania, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, and Minecraft, the most iconic gaming villain not in Smash, an old school pick that influenced fighting games and smash through Terry, a masssive fan request in Banjo, and the biggest JRPG in the past 15 years with Persona 5, I would say that yeah, Smash has made that transition.

Given how the series dropped the Nintendo All Stars moniker after Melee and what has been chosen, I think you can see that Smash has transitioned more into Gaming as a whole instead of just Nintendo. it is likely the next game will have even more third parties that will help with that.
That's a point of view. Looking at the roster as it is now, mine is that the transition is far from done : out of 82 fighters, I count 16 third parties characters, meaning that roughly 80% of the cast is still Nintendo. Smash might try to become a "celebration of gaming as a whole", it's certainly doing its best, but for now, Nintendo is still blatantly over-represented. Of course, we all know why, but the fact is, it's not (yet?) what the people in charge claim it is.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
Maybe not more than the average third party but whatever, it doesn't really matter. I'm just saying bayo has a connection to nintendo that's more than just being on nintendo consoles.
Fine, I will agree to stop. But I will not coincide there is anything special about these games
 
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Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,430
WRT the Bandana Dee talk on the last page: Bandana Dee might be seen as "boring" or "basic" (I disagree), but there's a reason he's as popular as he is: it is that he's one of maybe 2 or 3 Kirby characters that could legitimately be interesting Smash additions, the others being Magolor and Susie.
 

Jondolio

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Messages
2,192
I’m not going to go too in-depth on the third party discussion, but here’s my take on that.

  • I don’t mind third parties, and the fact that Smash is going the way of the third party is not a bad thing to me. What does bother me so far is the selection of third party characters. It feels so sterile to look at a sales list and pick out the biggest for the sake of hype. If Smash Bros. would go the way of the Ultimate DLC, I feel it would never really pick characters, just main guys from the big IP from the deserving company. I don’t think we should look at Nintendo-relatedness first and foremost when it comes to third parties, but I would hate to see Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton get outbid by big money makers. If third parties are going to be a part of Smash Bros, the roster picks for third parties should match the first party content and pick a mix of both the big money makers and the more niche or fanbase-favorite picks. Otherwise you’re just working your way down a Wikipedia table, rather than adding characters that fans enjoy.
As for Bandana Dee, I wholeheartedly agree. I’ve said it before, but Bandana Dee has had the roughest ride from Smash 4 to now, and it’s time for the fanbase to adapt. A spear is not unique anymore, the ratrace of range has been won fair and square between Min Min and Sepiroth, and Bandana Dee’s intuitive set just does not cut it when compared to the zillions of Kirby characters that don’t need to be composites of multiple small appearances to be unique. We should add a Rosalina and show that Bandana Dee is not next in line. We can have so much more if we don’t get stuck on “Bandana Dee is next”. “But Parasol” got old in Smash 4 DLC, let alone for Smash Ultimate. Kirby has so many characters with movesets in-game that can back up their potential without reaching for **** like “The whole Star Allies weapon system”

Impa is different if and only if they pick one of her “old lady” designs. Her Breath of the Wild incarnation would rock in Smash.
In all fairness, the new third-parties in this game aren't all big names. Banjo was included solely for fanservice and SNK may be a big deal in Latin America, but it's relatively niche outside of it.
Still, even if I like the rest of the newcomers I can see where your concerns are coming from. I feel like the fanbase obsessing over sale numbers doesn't help, and I would really appreciate if we got some more niche characters sprinkled in next game like Phoenix and Rayman among the big hitters.

Old lady Impa is actually a pretty inspired pick tho I'm not gonna lie
WRT the Bandana Dee talk on the last page: Bandana Dee might be seen as "boring" or "basic" (I disagree), but there's a reason he's as popular as he is: it is that he's one of maybe 2 or 3 Kirby characters that could legitimately be interesting Smash additions, the others being Magolor and Susie.
This doesn't make sense to me. Star Allies literally serves as a showcase of how the rest of the Kirby characters could be implemented, and most of them are very interesting. Bandana Dee is very basic compared to them, only having a spear and maybe a parasol to his name. There's no way there's only three Kirby characters that would be interesting in Smash.
 
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Mamboo07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
7,063
Location
Down Under
WRT the Bandana Dee talk on the last page: Bandana Dee might be seen as "boring" or "basic" (I disagree), but there's a reason he's as popular as he is: it is that he's one of maybe 2 or 3 Kirby characters that could legitimately be interesting Smash additions, the others being Magolor and Susie.
Dark Matter in his swordsman form would be cool.
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,430
This doesn't make sense to me. Star Allies literally serves as a showcase of how the rest of the Kirby characters could be implemented, and most of them are very interesting. Bandana Dee is very basic compared to them, only having a spear and maybe a parasol to his name. There's no way there's only three Kirby characters that would be interesting in Smash.
Dark Matter in his swordsman form would be cool.
Fair enough. I guess what I'm trying to say is it always kinda bugged me when people decry Bandana Dee as "too basic" to be interesting. A character can have a relatively simple moveset and still be interesting.
 

Perkilator

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
7,452
Location
San Clemente, CA
Fair enough. I guess what I'm trying to say is it always kinda bugged me when people decry Bandana Dee as "too basic" to be interesting. A character can have a relatively simple moveset and still be interesting.
Yeah, exactly! Sora's moveset is straightforward and I love it despite the tiny things that slightly hold him back.

I did my own moveset for BWD, and I go for a mix of simple and unique.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,286
Location
Somewhere Out There
Smash Fandom should stop shipping Characters for No reason.
It makes no sense like Joker X Palutena or Spiderman X Lucina.
(That ship doesn't make any Sense, since Regular Human can't marry a Goddess, that would be mind-hurting for all humanity or even an American Teenage boy dating a Medieval Girl)
Not to mention the improbability of a teenage guy getting super powers and said medieval girl time-travelling to save her future from being taken over by an ancient evil that has attempted to manifest itself in the best friend of her father. It just doesn’t make sense :/

oh that ones easy to explain. we all think hes adorable
Can’t and won’t contend with that. Finally some valid reasoning in speculation
 

Mamboo07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
7,063
Location
Down Under
Smash Fandom should stop shipping Characters for No reason.
It makes no sense like Joker X Palutena or Spiderman X Lucina.
(That ship doesn't make any Sense, since Regular Human can't marry a Goddess, that would be mind-hurting for all humanity or even an American Teenage boy dating a Medieval Girl)
Spiderman X Lucina was a meme.
 

KneeOfJustice99

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
804
Location
The Velvet Room
A Gen 8 Pokemon should have been one of the DLC fighters.

I say this simply because, by the time of the next Smash title, we'll probably be at Gen 9, and Smash has a really infuriating tendancy to completely ignore generations when they don't quite line up (looking at Gen 3 and Gen 5, as well as Gen 2 to a certain extent) and there's a ton of potential in Gen 8 with a wide variety of different potential picks.

I'm not saying that a Gen 8 Pokemon is more "deserving" than other characters, but I feel like they're in an awkward situation where they might have lost their chance to get into the series in some way.
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,430
A Gen 8 Pokemon should have been one of the DLC fighters.

I say this simply because, by the time of the next Smash title, we'll probably be at Gen 9, and Smash has a really infuriating tendancy to completely ignore generations when they don't quite line up (looking at Gen 3 and Gen 5, as well as Gen 2 to a certain extent) and there's a ton of potential in Gen 8 with a wide variety of different potential picks.

I'm not saying that a Gen 8 Pokemon is more "deserving" than other characters, but I feel like they're in an awkward situation where they might have lost their chance to get into the series in some way.
I'm gonna follow up on this and say my own opinion on Gen 8: Cinderace wasn't the absolutely awful choice people make it out to be.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
But good thing that ship Meme died.
its always a good thing when a meme dies

A Gen 8 Pokemon should have been one of the DLC fighters.

I say this simply because, by the time of the next Smash title, we'll probably be at Gen 9, and Smash has a really infuriating tendancy to completely ignore generations when they don't quite line up (looking at Gen 3 and Gen 5, as well as Gen 2 to a certain extent) and there's a ton of potential in Gen 8 with a wide variety of different potential picks.

I'm not saying that a Gen 8 Pokemon is more "deserving" than other characters, but I feel like they're in an awkward situation where they might have lost their chance to get into the series in some way.
my moneys on gen 10
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,292
Gonna leave this here.

Smash's sound effects post Super Smash Bros. Melee is mostly bland and uninspiring. Smash 64 had the most fun and fascinating sound effects. And I wish Smash would go back to this charm. I wish they used Smash 64's sounds effects as an inspirational source for an engineering point. Older Super Smash Bros. entries like 64 and Melee had far more dangerous, fun and entertaining sound effects that I wish were appreciated more.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
Gonna leave this here.

Smash's sound effects post Super Smash Bros. Melee is mostly bland and uninspiring. Smash 64 had the most fun and fascinating sound effects. And I wish Smash would go back to this charm. I wish they used Smash 64's sounds effects as an inspirational source for an engineering point. Older Super Smash Bros. entries like 64 and Melee had far more dangerous, fun and entertaining sound effects that I wish were appreciated more.
dangerous sound effects? maybe you had the tv up a little loud?
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,292
dangerous sound effects? maybe you had the tv up a little loud?
o_O
Bro.. you misread or missed the point of my post it seems.

Smash 64 and Melee had more brutal and exciting sound effects for lack of a better word. Its a positive quota, not opposite.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
o_O
Bro.. you misread or missed the point of my post it seems.

Smash 64 and Melee had more brutal and exciting sound effects for lack of a better word. Its a positive quota, not opposite.
no i understood your point. but for a sound affect for to be dangerous it would have to damage your ears
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,430
One last thing in regards to Kirby: Marx is probably the biggest bandwagon character I saw for Ultimate.

I've noticed that when someone suggests Marx for Smash Bros, 90% of the time, it comes with the tag of "well Bandana Dee is so boring, and Marx is so cool and iconic and important!" never mind the fact that Marx was absent from the series for almost 20 years not counting remakes.
 

Lamperouge

Drifting Soul
Premium
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
11,232
no i understood your point. but for a sound affect for to be dangerous it would have to damage your ears
He most likely meant sound effects that had more impact and "punch" to them than Ultimate. Sound effects that really give off the impression that the attack hurts like a *****.

But you probably already knew that and simply wanted to be a wise guy.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
He most likely meant sound effects that had more impact and "punch" to them than Ultimate. Sound effects that really give off the impression that the attack hurts like a *****.

But you probably already knew that and simply wanted to be a wise guy.
no i simply want people to communicate properly. and using words in a way in which their meaning cant apply is not communicating properly.
 

Lamperouge

Drifting Soul
Premium
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
11,232
no i simply want people to communicate properly. and using words in a way in which their meaning cant apply is not communicating properly.
Instead of worrying about how people construct their messages and their choice of words, why don't you practice what you preach and start proofreading your own content before you start correcting the work of others?

Because "can't" and "cant" are two completely different words.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
Instead of worrying about how people construct their messages and their choice of words, why don't you practice what you preach and start proofreading your own content before you start correcting the work of others?

Because "can't" and "cant" are two completely different words.
Uh huh. Tell me do you enjoy telling people off while doing exactly what you say they’re doing?
 

Lamperouge

Drifting Soul
Premium
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
11,232
Uh huh. Tell me do you enjoy telling people off while doing exactly what you say they’re doing?
I don't make it a routine to correct others on their vocabulary and grammar. Nobody is perfect, especially when typing on the Internet.

This case just really sticks out because you can barely articulate your thoughts into a coherent statement, yet you still want to criticize everyone else's mistakes.
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,292
Instead of worrying about how people construct their messages and their choice of words, why don't you practice what you preach and start proofreading your own content before you start correcting the work of others?

Because "can't" and "cant" are two completely different words.
Thank you so much. 😔 I feel like guy makes some of the most pointless replies on occasions.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
I don't make it a routine to correct others on their vocabulary and grammar. Nobody is perfect, especially when typing on the Internet.

This case just really sticks out because you can barely articulate your thoughts into a coherent statement, yet you still want to criticize everyone else's mistakes.
Thank you so much. 😔 I feel like guy makes some of the most pointless replies on occasions.
Has it ever occurred to either of you that I might have communication difficulties and therefore have to ask what people mean while struggling to be clear myself?
 

Lamperouge

Drifting Soul
Premium
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
11,232
Has it ever occurred to either of you that I might have communication difficulties and therefore have to ask what people mean while struggling to be clear myself?
Except you weren't asking for better clarification and already admitted to understanding the point of his original comment. You just wanted to correct him for absolutely no reason other than to flex your supposed "intellect".

I'm done with this conversation.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,095
Location
Scotland
Except you weren't asking for better clarification and already admitted to understanding the point of his original comment. You just wanted to correct him for absolutely no reason other than to flex your supposed "intellect".

I'm done with this conversation.
Intellect? Who said anything about intellect? Tell me has anyone told you you’re quite a judgemental person? And asking people to use words properly is asking them to be clear.

You can be done as you want but it doesn’t negate the fact that you’re in the wrong here and you’re wrong about me
 
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MAtgSy

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
963
Toon Link should be the default Link. Just call him Link & the other 1 Adult Link.
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,292
I absolutely loathe the "Nice work!" after finishing Classic Mode in Ultimate and wish it was kept to simply "Congratulations!"
Octorok is an underrated Zelda Newcomer pick.
All bosses other than Master/Crazy Hand, and Giga Bowser are rehashed and recycled. With the phenomenal exception of gems like Ridley and Dracula, most are boring.
Melee, while being an older title, aged better than Brawl.
Super Smash Bros. 64 is still interesting.
 
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