Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[ZagarTulip]

I would prefer Cranky Kong over Dixie Kong when it comes to playable Kongs in Tropical Freeze in Smash. kinda surprised how underrequested he is.

While I understand the representation value of Bandana Waddle Dee, I just find other Kirby reps more interesting. I want Daroach, Clawroline, Dark Matter, etc.

F-Zero deserves more reps, I just want the other racers to have a little more presence in Smash, since F-Zero hasn't had any recent entries (I don't count F-Zero 99) and I love the character designs

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Cranky has the same issue with all non-Dee Kirby reps; no matter how potentially interested fans might be, the presumed next selection from the series (Dixie in DK's case, BWD in Kirby's) ends up sucking up much of the oxygen in the room speculation wise. Get those two in Smash and both scenes would arguably be much more interesting in terms of discussion.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Cranky has the same issue with all non-Dee Kirby reps; no matter how potentially interested fans might be, the presumed next selection from the series (Dixie in DK's case, BWD in Kirby's) ends up sucking much of the oxygen in the room speculation wise. Get those two in Smash and both scenes would arguably be much more interesting in terms of discussion.

Honestly, that whole Bandana Dee quota has gotten quite irritating. I don't actually think as a frontrunner, he has a high shot of truly granting much on his own. If he's incorporated in his base format of completing the RtDL quartet, he will most likely end up with a somewhat disjointed spear user with a flavored moveset a la Meta Knight. But even Meta Knight has enough coverage across the games he shows up in to prove worthy, despite not technically having the highest attendance record. Bandana Dee has gotten virtually perfect attendance since RtDL struck gold, but... hardly any scope to cover for it. Ignoring the 3DS titles, where I'd argue he hindered other characters' appearances, the first game to actually give him some substance beyond 2011 was Forgotten Land. And even that's ridden with multiple (multiplayer) problems. Like I said, it just feels like he's incorporated as a means to fill the quota for the most popular Kirby title, which somewhat ignores any other semi-popular or recurring parts of titles that may be missing. Which applies to both theoretical inclusion and the home series' incorporation, BTW.

I must have said most of this before, but we've more than reached the 10-year threshold of this argument's strongest era. Keep in mind, I think Bandana Dee probably would've been perfect for Smash 4, especially given the time area and its philosophy. But because that didn't ever happen, more issues have cropped up, making it look like a much weaker argument than it must be. Yet nothing has changed. He still bottlenecks Kirby speculation, to the point of agony at this rate; yet the arguments and underlying flaws behind it have remained the same, possibly getting worse through time.

Maybe the issue could easily be mitigated by incorporating him as an option for a regular Waddle Dee fighter, who I'd argue has a much better logic behind an inclusion. But I guess that also assumes a lot for what the next Smash will do.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Cranky has the same issue with all non-Dee Kirby reps; no matter how potentially interested fans might be, the presumed next selection from the series (Dixie in DK's case, BWD in Kirby's) ends up sucking up much of the oxygen in the room speculation wise. Get those two in Smash and both scenes would arguably be much more interesting in terms of discussion.

It really sucks that someone like Cranky and Funky can't ever be brought up without instantly getting shut down because "BUT DIXIE THO?!"


Even worse you have people shooting down Funky as "can only be an Echo" while simultaneously praising Dixie to high heaven as this paradigm of uniqueness that couldn't possibly be anything like Diddy.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

...y'know, looking back at my previous post again, another thought comes to mind. Semi-related.

Should Smash add more characters that are semi-popular, but aren't necessarily high in requests, into the next base game as fighters? K. Rool was a request that fell to the wayside but still was highly requested for his subsiding popularity. Incineroar was not all that requested but garnered a moveset that caught some attention. What if we had more of that kind of inclusion, someone not as anticipated in the grand scheme of things? Maybe people could warm up to that kind of novelty over time. Of course, it'd have to be something they incorporate into the base game, not DLC.

Edit: I guess the idea would have to not override the other main requests, either. I think it could still work, though.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Should Smash add more characters that are semi-popular, but aren't necessarily high in requests, into the next base game as fighters? K. Rool was a request that fell to the wayside but still was highly requested for his subsiding popularity. Incineroar was not all that requested but garnered a moveset that caught some attention. What if we had more of that kind of inclusion, someone not as anticipated in the grand scheme of things? Maybe people could warm up to that kind of novelty over time. Of course, it'd have to be something they incorporate into the base game, not DLC.

You kind of answered your own question.

We already get characters like that. And we get a fair amount of them too.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

You kind of answered your own question.

We already get characters like that. And we get a fair amount of them too.

Last time, we sure didn't get that many. Which... might be part of the problem, too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Last time, we sure didn't get that many. Which... might be part of the problem, too.

We get a lot of characters who don't top popularity polls. We even get them in DLC and as echo fighters.

Like compared to...


It's roughly the same. You can argue about which ones are more popular than others, but we've never had a lack of less popular characters.

 

[UserKev]

...y'know, looking back at my previous post again, another thought comes to mind. Semi-related.

Should Smash add more characters that are semi-popular, but aren't necessarily high in requests, into the next base game as fighters? K. Rool was a request that fell to the wayside but still was highly requested for his subsiding popularity. Incineroar was not all that requested but garnered a moveset that caught some attention. What if we had more of that kind of inclusion, someone not as anticipated in the grand scheme of things? Maybe people could warm up to that kind of novelty over time. Of course, it'd have to be something they incorporate into the base game, not DLC.

Edit: I guess the idea would have to not override the other main requests, either. I think it could still work, though.

I kind of like how you generally addressed the narrative tho. I'm going to brag alittle when I say, the novelty is strong when you think of the monotone obvious but not quiet requested: Birdo, Cranky, Tingle, Kamek. I'm aware of the supposed Western unaproval for Tingle but he doesn't deserve to be disallowed. He's recurring and memorable. And would be a pretty fun addition. Tingle is a character you can slap the magic bag trope on that would give him all kinds of creative arsenals.

 

[Lenidem]

I kind of like how you generally addressed the narrative tho. I'm going to brag alittle when I say, the novelty is strong when you think of the monotone obvious but not quiet requested: Birdo, Cranky, Tingle, Kamek. I'm aware of the supposed Western unaproval for Tingle but he doesn't deserve to be disallowed. He's recurring and memorable. And would be a pretty fun addition. Tingle is a character you can slap the magic bag trope on that would give him all kinds of creative arsenals.

Totally agree on Tingle. He is one of my most wanted.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Cranky has the same issue with all non-Dee Kirby reps; no matter how potentially interested fans might be, the presumed next selection from the series (Dixie in DK's case, BWD in Kirby's) ends up sucking up much of the oxygen in the room speculation wise. Get those two in Smash and both scenes would arguably be much more interesting in terms of discussion.

Maybe. I kinda think the expected choice isn't always what we're getting to be honest. Cranky has the Mario Movie as a huge bonus for his inclusion, and the fact he appears in more DKC games than Dixie and is the OG DK, that might make him more interesting to the developers. I'm mentally prepared for this to happen at least.

And sure Dixie wouldn't be like Diddy. They differ a lot in DKC, just like DK and Diddy who play nothing alike. If she'd be a Diddy Echo, she would've been one already. The original idea was a tag team between these Kongs. Why a tag team if switching out doesn't mean a different play style? I mean just logic here. Funky is a different topic. He could be unique sure, but even as Echo he could be done justice. Dixie couldn't.

 

[RykZyk]

Should Smash add more characters that are semi-popular, but aren't necessarily high in requests, into the next base game as fighters?

Honestly yeah, it's always good to see some surprises in the roster for Smash Bros and not always rely on fanservice. It's part of the essence of the franchise honestly.
Also because there are a lot of good options to choose despite not being popular request, like Goemon.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Since someone mentioned joke characters a couple days ago, I figured I'd reshare this opinion. They shoulda kept Pichu as a joke character in Ultimate and I dislike the fact they tried to make her a serious fighter. I like her fine and all but I feel like her actually being useable ruins the joke. She was perfect as Smash's answer to Dan Hibiki.

Some improvements here and there would have been fine, I think a good joke character should still be able to have sparks of brilliance if you try enough, but her in Ultimate is just... no. She should not be doing half the bullcrap she does. Looks unnatural to me.

 

[UserKev]

• I haven't thought about this until now, Dark Samus is a very bland Echo. And no, even none Echo-lized Dark Samus would still be bland.
• Ness is mostly terrible playstyle wise. Nostalgia saves him.
• DK does NOT need a move revamp. Maybe the coconut gun would be sensible but the barrel throw or any other moveset change would ruin DK.
• Mario's Final Smash is painfully uninspiring. Give him a fire punch instead.

 

[fogbadge]

Mario's Final Smash is painfully uninspiring. Give him a fire punch instead.

well the first half is not an unpopular opinion

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Mario's Final Smash is painfully uninspiring. Give him a fire punch instead

Mario's Final Smash is lame, I'll agree but somehow your suggestion is even more uninspired.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I know there's reluctance to update Mario especially with one off abilities from recent games, but I think I'd honestly prefer him becoming a big rampaging T-Rex ala Mario Odyssey for his Final Smash. Even if it didn't represent his broader history, it would at least be fun.

 

[UserKev]

Mario's Final Smash is lame, I'll agree but somehow your suggestion is even more uninspired.

Conceptually I believe it can be done. With the right firey visuals and fun hit box. Basically Mario taking inspiration from Ryu. I want a stage reliable Final Smash that connects in close proximity.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Diablo is a seriously underrated third party candidate for Smash

 

[BritishGuy54]

I know there's reluctance to update Mario especially with one off abilities from recent games, but I think I'd honestly prefer him becoming a big rampaging T-Rex ala Mario Odyssey for his Final Smash. Even if it didn't represent his broader history, it would at least be fun.

How do we make Mario’s Final Smash better?

Do we completely overhaul it and replace it with Fire Mario shooting multiple fireballs for a period of time like in Galaxy?

Or do we just have Mario Finale but with Fire Mario colours?

 

[Perkilator]

How do we make Mario’s Final Smash better?

Do we completely overhaul it and replace it with Fire Mario shooting multiple fireballs for a period of time like in Galaxy?

Or do we just have Mario Finale but with Fire Mario colours?

They could also make a Final Smash based on Mario getting the Super Star and beating down Bowser at the end of the 2023 movie

 

[Louie G.]

Mario Finale is kinda lame, but I guess I understand its role as the "default" Final Smash that kind of portrays what the concept is supposed to be. I think it's been long enough where that's well understood though, so we can stand to distance ourselves from it a little bit.

Or not, whatever. Many of the other choices for Mario final smashes don't inspire me that much further, feel unbefitting of the character or already pertain to existing items in the series that I don't see being removed any time soon (Starman, Super Mushroom, Hammer etc). It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe the Movie's climactic final fight against Bowser could inspire a bit of an alternate take on Starman that would make for a more exciting Final Smash / finishing move.

 

[UserKev]

I think people are really undermining our brainstorming. At least we're trying to come up with a new take. Aye, many of you agreed with the notion, so what's the problem? Any change in direction will be neat by this point.

Always thought Mario swinging an alternate Bowser would be a powerful and refreshing take. 3 spins per release would be a creative call back of an already iconic move.

 

[RykZyk]

Maybe this will sound biased, but i never bought the popular belief that the Rabbids have bigger chance than Rayman to be in Smash, for three reasons:
1. Rayman has been requested for a long time now, and honestly is quite surprising how badly people want to see him in the game.

2. Ubisoft has shown interest on putting Rayman in Smash Bros already sometimes.

3. And most importantly, if we go by popularity, an Assassin's Creed guy would have much more sense since it's by far the most popular Ubisoft IP, at least in the West since none of the Ubisoft IPs are really popular in Japan.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The tricky issue with Mario is that many of the more obvious potential Final Smashes are being utilized either as items (metal transformation, Starman, giant size from mushroom) or feel tied to specific games (water jet, Cappy transformations, Hammer Bros suit, etc) rather than his broader identity.

One minor thing that might spice up the FS a bit is that it's a two-part attack with an initial super fire ball attack followed by a super ice attack: the former doing more damage, but the latter potentially freezing opponents for a brief time if it. It's nothing special but the ice flower has become a decent established power-up by now and it would be a bit more interesting.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Personally I'd love the 8-Bit Star from Super Paper Mario to be Mario's Final Smash.

He gets turned into a giant 8-Bit Mario and runs around the stage.

Alternatively, I'd love to see a Bros Attack performed with Luigi, but Luigi being playable complicates things.

 

[fogbadge]

I think people are really undermining our brainstorming. At least we're trying to come up with a new take. Aye, many of you agreed with the notion, so what's the problem? Any change in direction will be neat by this point.

well I would say the problem is most felt your idea wasn't any better than the one he now. I mean why on earth would you give mario a FS based on ryu?

 

[UserKev]

well I would say the problem is most felt your idea wasn't any better than the one he now. I mean why on earth would you give mario a FS based on ryu?

It literally would considering that Mario's current Final Smash has wonky hit boxes and barely does next to no damage. It's unsatisfying to land. I said Mario's Final Smash if given a fire punch should be INSPIRED by Ryu's. NOT based. You guys need to read more careful and stop putting on this persona of unflawed highly intelligent beings. If you don't have any better ideas, your basically just throwing insults.

By this point, I'd rather some of you not say anything anymore than considerably grind my gears. To add, not being harsh. Your all actually amazing people but I'm just over it.

 

[fogbadge]

It literally would considering that Mario's current Final Smash has wonky hit boxes and barely does next to no damage. It's unsatisfying to land. I said Mario's Final Smash if given a fire punch should be INSPIRED by Ryu's. NOT based. You guys need to read more careful and stop putting on this persona of unflawed highly intelligent beings. If you don't have any better ideas, your basically just throwing insults.

By this point, I'd rather some of you not say anything anymore than considerably grind my gears. To add, not being harsh. Your all actually amazing people but I'm just over it.

not being harsh? ha. inspired by/based on has little meaning as giving mario a giant flaming punch is a dumb idea regardless. it's so un-mario. I didn't offer any alternate ideas cause I was explaining what everyone else was doing. I wasn't there to offer ideas. don't get snippy with me cause no one likes your ideas especially when I'm only acting as a clarifier

 

[UserKev]

not being harsh? ha. inspired by/based on has little meaning as giving mario a giant flaming punch is a dumb idea regardless. it's so un-mario. I didn't offer any alternate ideas cause I was explaining what everyone else was doing. I wasn't there to offer ideas. don't get snippy with me cause no one likes your ideas especially when I'm only acting as a clarifier

Your posts usually offer little substance to anything to be honest. Hence why you were called out in the Rate Their Chances thread.

Mario with a fire punch would literally be more useful than his current Final Smash. How would you define Un-Mario like exactly? His current Final Smash is literally a flame Kamehameha/blast wave. In this case I'll defend you and say as long as it's fire, it's Mario.

 

[fogbadge]

Your posts usually offer little substance to anything to be honest. Hence why you were called out in the Rate Their Chances thread.

Mario with a fire punch would literally be more useful than his current Final Smash. How would you define Un-Mario like exactly? His current Final Smash is literally a flame Kamehameha/blast wave. In this case I'll defend you and say as long as it's fire, it's Mario.

I haven’t been in the rate their chances thread for years, I do not recall what you’re talking about. If you’re using something from years ago to justify your attitude of shooting the messenger then you need to take a step back for a moment. Cause again I was trying to explain what the others were saying to you.

 

[UserKev]

I haven’t been in the rate their chances thread for years, I do not recall what you’re talking about. If you’re using something from years ago to justify your attitude of shooting the messenger then you need to take a step back for a moment. Cause again I was trying to explain what the others were saying to you.

How would you define un-Mario like exactly? In terms of a Final Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

How would you define un-Mario like exactly? In terms of a Final Smash.

well ryu-inspired for a start

 

[UserKev]

well ryu-inspired for a start

But a giant Kamehameha wave inspired flame is fine? Ok. Maybe I should have used better phrasing. This is what I mean.

Ryu inspired doesn't mean specifically the same thing. Basically everything has inspiration that you wouldn't determine half of the time unless said by one who was inspired.

 

[fogbadge]

But a giant Kamehameha wave inspired flame is fine? Ok. Maybe I should have used better phrasing. This is what I mean.
View attachment 393193
Ryu inspired doesn't mean specifically the same thing. Basically everything has inspiration that you wouldn't determine half of the time unless said by one who was inspired.

the first thing I said to you in the whole conversation was that it wasn’t an unpopular opinion. You know suggesting most people agreed that Mario’s current FS was lame. At no point did I say it was fine

 

[UserKev]

the first thing I said to you in the whole conversation was that it wasn’t an unpopular opinion. You know suggesting most people agreed that Mario’s current FS was lame. At no point did I say it was fine

People dunking all over my suggestion not being any better is the problem. That's all I'm saying. I'll leave this debate alone now.

 

[Louie G.]

well ryu-inspired for a start

I don’t agree with UserKev’s suggestion, but Mario is pretty directly designed to be Smash’s answer to the shoto archetype. It’s made clear through his special kit in 64. So there is at least some parallel here.

With Mario’s specials being changed over the years and Ryu himself being a part of the roster, it’s not really appropriate anymore but I wouldn’t say Ryu inspiration is “un-Mario” in the context of Smash specifically.

 

[fogbadge]

I don’t agree with UserKev’s suggestion, but Mario is pretty directly designed to be Smash’s answer to the shoto archetype. It’s made clear through his special kit in 64. So there is at least some parallel here.

With Mario’s specials being changed over the years and Ryu himself being a part of the roster, it’s not really appropriate anymore but I wouldn’t say Ryu inspiration is “un-Mario” in the context of Smash specifically.

See I’ve seen people say that before but only by fans so I’ve never paid it much attention. Also being un-Mario is a criticism I’ve given him before

 

[Quillion]

Smash would be better off without invincibility frame dodges and rolls. They should instead be replaced with "step dashes"/wavedashes and air dashes that can cancel certain moves.

Tech rolls and prone rolls are fine though.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's Mario. What does Mario do? He shoots fireballs, yes, but another trademark "thing" of his is getting big.

Just give Mario a Mega Mushroom and make it a transformation Final Smash. It's all your moves, but big, and you get a new stomping animation while moving around so you can damage/trip opponents by just walking into them. Easy to understand for newbies and fun to control, done and done.