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Ultimate’s Sequel: Super Smash Bros. Infinite Project

Which Legend Arceus Pokémon should we include?

  • Basculegion

  • Hsuian Growlithe

  • Hsuian Bravery


Results are only viewable after voting.

Krookodilian

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498
Location
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Sami Alt Colors
Sami Alt submissions are now open! When submitting content, we will be including the following information:​

  • Picture
  • Reference Name
  • Color
  • Description
  • Why it should be included
Sami should be relatively straight forward, although please try to avoid duplicate colors. Alt costumes may be submitted and will be considered, although there is no mandate for an alt costume in this case, so we cannot guarantee that it will be accepted. Once enough time has passed you submit a second costume if 11 has not been submitted. I'll start us with one:

Nell (Purple)
1631503032259.png

Sami's Hair will turn blonde and her outfit will go full purple, like in this mockup from the Sami Support thread, which has some other excellent alt ideas. I've never played Advance Wars but Nell is an Orange Star CO, and instructs the player with hints and advice during the campaign.
1631503097150.png
 

GolisoPower

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
2,875
1631503443241.png

Olaf (Blue)
One of the COs of Blue Moon, Olaf is a pompous braggart who's earned the respect of his troops. For this alt costume, Sami's top becomes an aquamarine color while her pants and gloves become a frosty blue and her bandana becomes a snowy white. What's more, if this color is selected, some soldiers and vehicles change their appearance to match Blue Moon troops, where the helmets transform into berets.
 

Commander_Alph

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
1,570
Alt Color
1631503802046.png

Sonja (Japan)

The color palette of Sonja, known as Asuka in Japan. We already have the default being green so having it be red would be nice. Sonja herself is actually Sami's close friend/rival during her years in the military school. This could also be a color palette of Andy but I like Sonja more so ;P.

Obviously the color palette will be the same as that mock-up posted above so no need to explain.

(P.S. I know that this color palette will be forcefully change to reference Andy so here, have her in green, Her tank tops will be in a blueish green hue while her pants is light green)
1631504615646.png
 
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cashregister9

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
4,114


Isabella (Maroon)

Sami's Pants and boots become maroon, her shirt becomes a dirty white, her hair becomes white and her headband becomes yellow

Isabella is one of the major characters in Advance Wars: Days Of Ruin
 
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Location
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Sami Alt Colors
Sami Alt submissions are now open! When submitting content, we will be including the following information:​

  • Picture
  • Reference Name
  • Color
  • Description
  • Why it should be included
Sami should be relatively straight forward, although please try to avoid duplicate colors. Alt costumes may be submitted and will be considered, although there is no mandate for an alt costume in this case, so we cannot guarantee that it will be accepted. Once enough time has passed you submit a second costume if 11 has not been submitted. I'll start us with one:

Nell (Purple)
View attachment 330119
Sami's Hair will turn blonde and her outfit will go full purple, like in this mockup from the Sami Support thread, which has some other excellent alt ideas. I've never played Advance Wars but Nell is an Orange Star CO, and instructs the player with hints and advice during the campaign.
DAPHNE IN SMASH

DAPHNE IN SMASH
 

airConditioner

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Sep 27, 2014
Messages
384
Location
Wandering the Kwangya

It's Sturm! The only CO of the antagonistic Black Hole nation (though he is joined by some minions later on). This Black alt will be based on members of the Black Hole nation, but will have highlights that indicate a leaning towards Sturm.

Hair: Same Orange
Bandana: Dark Navy/Black
Top: Dark Navy/Black
Gloves: Gold
Pants: Dark Navy/Black
 
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Tankman from Newgrounds

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Messages
333
Location
Forgotten Land, ???, USA? (20XX Future Timeline)
Alt color for Sami:
Flak (Brown)
Flak is a character in Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising, who was originally low ranked soldier he tried to take out the Orange Star. After being low ranked, became

Sami's military uniform would be completely brown with flakes camouflage pattern. Her helmet is Dark Brown.

The Inclusion of this costume would be perfect, because it would represent AW 2 like Sturm alt. from AirConditioner, but he is less Known character and he needs a Representation in Smash.​
 

Attachments

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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I'm not missing out on the VeggieTales ****posting, even if I'm late.

View attachment 330135

Also both the wiki and the OP are kinda out of date
I’ve been progressively trying to get the OP up to date but between family stuff and work; I haven’t found the time. I hope I can get to it soon.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Job #163: Submit an Advanced Wars Mii Costume
Joining Sami will be an army of content ranging from a stage, music, spirits and more. One such content will be a Mii Fighter Costume! This costume can be one of the many CO or one of the units found in the game.

When submitting, please provide the following information:
  • Artwork​
  • Name​
  • First game appearance​
  • Mii Fighter class​
  • Does the Mii Fighter costume affect the costume in anyway?​
We will also continue to allow for a Sami alternate color submissions
 
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GolisoPower

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
2,875
1631579822591.png

Infantry (Gunner)
First Appearance: Advance Wars
This Mii Gunner costume is rather unique in the sense that the appearance changes based on what player that Mii Gunner is. Colors will also change based on a specific color of your Mii.
  • P1 & P5: Orange Star: Based on American troops, the costume gains a typical collared jacket and pants for the body and an M1 helmet for the hat. He will also be armed with the M1918 B.A.R.
  • P2 & P6: Blue Moon: Based on Russian troops, the costume sports baggy pants and a brown satchel for the body while sporting a pilotka for the hat. The gun used is the PPSh-41 submachine gun.
  • P3 & P7: Green Earth: Based on Western European troops, the Green Earth Infantry will gain a long trench coat reaching down to their shins as well as a Stahlhelm on their head. They are armed with an MP 40 for the gun.
  • P4 & P8: Yellow Comet: Based on Japanese troops, the costume for the Yellow Comet Infantry consists of a typical uniform with a large backpack for the body and a cap on their heads for the hat. The gun they use is the Type-100 submachine gun.
  • CPU: Black Hole: This costume is usually reserved for CPU players, although players can hold L+R while pressing start to access this outfit. The Black Hole outfit consists of a spacesuit with a comically large astronaut's helmet, while the gun in their hand is a Hechler & Koch G11.
The specific colors a character can access are Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, and Grey.
 

Krookodilian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
498
Location
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When in doubt, More Spirits

Boshi (Super Mario: RPG)
Class: Advanced ★★
Type: Primary Attack
Effect: Speed ↑
  • Puppet Fighter: Yoshi (Blue)
  • Stage: Yoshi's Island (Melee)
  • Music Track: Beware the Forest Mushrooms
  • Match: Stock (1)
  • Conditions: Certain items appear in large numbers (Onigiri), Ally: Yoshi (Green), The enemy has increased speed
Smithy (Super Mario: RPG)
Class: Ace ★★★
Type: Support Attack
Effect: Shield Damage ↑, 1 Slot
  • Puppet Fighter: King K. Rool (Black), Metal King Dedede (Grey), Metal Kirby x5 (Grey)
  • Stage: Kalos League (Steel)
  • Music Track: Fight against an Armed Boss
  • Match: Stock (1)
  • Conditions: Defeat the main Fighter and reinforcements will spawn, The enemy favors Down Special (Kirby), The enemy has increased weapon attacks
Kuro Neko (Wario Land 4)
Class: Novice ★
Type: Support Shield
Effect: Can Be Evolved
  • Puppet Fighter: Peach (White), Mr. Game & Watch (Black), Tiny Incineroar (Black)
  • Stage: Mushroom Kingdom II
  • Music Track: Ruins- Wario Land Shake It!
  • Match: Stock (1), Time (1:30)
  • Conditions: The enemy tends to avoid conflict, Certain items will appear in large numbers (transforming items)

Evolves into Princess Shokora who is now Ace and grants Trade-Off Ability ↑
Goodstyle (Wario: Master of Disguise)
Class: Novice ★
Type: Support Neutral
Effect: Transformation Duration ↑
  • Summon from the cores of Count Cannoli and Eline
Spriteling (Wario World)
Class: Novice ★
Type: Support Neutral
Effect: Tiny, 1 Slot
  • Puppet Fighter: Tiny Young Link x40 (Green, Redm Blue, Yellow, Pink)
  • Stage: Find Mii
  • Music Track: Greenhorn Forest
  • Match: HP (10)
  • Conditions: Defeat a horde of fighters
Bucket (Mario & Wario) (only here since it was a trophy in melee)
Class: Advanced ★★
Type: Support Grab
Effect: Irreversible Controls, 2 Slots
  • Puppet Fighter: Mario (Pink), Mr. Game & Watch (Dark Blue)
  • Stage: Mushroom Kingdom U
  • Music Track: Mario Paint Medley
  • Match: Stock (1)
  • Conditions: Hostile Assist Trophies will appear (Nightmare), The enemy Favors Down Special (Mr. Game & Watch)
Picky Minch (EarthBound)
Class: Advanced ★★
Type: Primary Neutral, 2 Slots
Effect: [None]
  • Puppet Fighter: Tiny Villager (Blue)
  • Stage: Spiral Mountain
  • Music Track: Bein' Friends
  • Match: Stock (1)
  • Conditions: Take you strongest team into this no frills battle!
Plague Rat of Doom (EarthBound)
Class: Advanced ★★
Type: Support Attack
Effect: Poison Damage Reduced, 1 Slots
  • Puppet Fighter: Pikachu (Green)
  • Stage: Mario Bros.
  • Music Track: Fourside
  • Match: Stamina (1)
  • Conditions: Hazard: Poison Floor, The enemy has high chance of landing a critical hit
Negative Man (Mother 3)
Class: Novice ★
Type: Primary Shield, 0 Slots
Effect: Initial Damage 30%
  • Puppet Fighter: Pac-Man (Yellow)
  • Stage: Castle Seige (Cave)
  • Music Track: Smiles and Tears
  • Match: Stock (1)
  • Conditions: The enemy tends not to move
 
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Dr. Distorto
EarthBound series
Advanced class support - Bomber equipped

Song: Battle with a Dangerous Foe
Stage: Omega Shadow Moses
Opponent: Dr. Mario (red), ROB (Famicom), Golden ROB
Rules: Clear within 2 minutes
Tony
EarthBound series
Novice class primary - no trait, 2 slots, neutral

Song: Snowman
Stage: Yoshi's Island Brawl (Winter)
Opponents: Villager (blue, drowsy eyes, male)
Rules: Hostile Jeff ATs will spawn.
Sal Out
WarioWare series
Ace class support - sleeping immunity

Song: Tomorrow Hill
Stage: Battlefield Beaumonde Arena
Opponent: Villager (pink hair)
Rules: No-frills battle
Mona (WarioWare DIY)
WarioWare series
Novice class primary - jump up, 1 slot, shield

Stage: N. Sanity Beach
Song: Forest Frenzy (GBA)
Opponent: Daisy (pink dress)
Rules: Hostile Thwomp ATs will spawn
Mona (WarioWare: Twisted!)
WarioWare series
Advanced class support - Mouthful of Curry

Stage: Dream Land GB (Dedede boxing ring)
Song: Mona Pizza (English)
Opponent: Daisy (red dress)
Allies: black suit Captain Falcon X 2
Rules: Foe will randomly become fast, healing food items spawn often, the screen will turn upside down
 
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Mii Costume submission:
The Second D That Isn't In The Logo
95FE6EE9-8DA5-488C-9C99-2F82BE0A1F5F.jpeg

Completely replaces your Mii's head with the letter D, this is where tue second D in Advance(d) Wars went.
 

Tankman from Newgrounds

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Messages
333
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Forgotten Land, ???, USA? (20XX Future Timeline)
Grunt (Battalion Wars) (Mii Gunner Outfit)

The Color of this Mii suit is light green Milatary outfit taken from Battalion Wars itself with Backpack on back.. The Blaster is replaced with Battalion Wars' M16 weapon. Colors don't change while wearing this Costume.

We need a Battalion Wars representation in Smash as Mii Costume.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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We will be stopping both Alternate Costume submissions plus our Mii Costume submissions.

Here are the following submissions
View attachment 330192
Infantry (Gunner)
First Appearance: Advance Wars
This Mii Gunner costume is rather unique in the sense that the appearance changes based on what player that Mii Gunner is. Colors will also change based on a specific color of your Mii.
  • P1 & P5: Orange Star: Based on American troops, the costume gains a typical collared jacket and pants for the body and an M1 helmet for the hat. He will also be armed with the M1918 B.A.R.
  • P2 & P6: Blue Moon: Based on Russian troops, the costume sports baggy pants and a brown satchel for the body while sporting a pilotka for the hat. The gun used is the PPSh-41 submachine gun.
  • P3 & P7: Green Earth: Based on Western European troops, the Green Earth Infantry will gain a long trench coat reaching down to their shins as well as a Stahlhelm on their head. They are armed with an MP 40 for the gun.
  • P4 & P8: Yellow Comet: Based on Japanese troops, the costume for the Yellow Comet Infantry consists of a typical uniform with a large backpack for the body and a cap on their heads for the hat. The gun they use is the Type-100 submachine gun.
  • CPU: Black Hole: This costume is usually reserved for CPU players, although players can hold L+R while pressing start to access this outfit. The Black Hole outfit consists of a spacesuit with a comically large astronaut's helmet, while the gun in their hand is a Hechler & Koch G11.
The specific colors a character can access are Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, and Grey.
Tank (Hat) from Advance Wars
View attachment 330227


The tank from Advanced Wars is placed over the head of the Mii like a cardboard box, not unlike the Cannon Box in Mario. Changes color based on Mii color
The missing D from Advanced Wars wasn’t accepted as a viable Mii Costume.

You can Vote here

We are entering our final Smash Infinite Direct and, with that in mind, we will be jumping into further content which will be featured in this presentation. That being said, we have one more surprise for people before we start this…

Job #164: Submit a Third Party Echo
We will be submitting our last Third Party Echo fighter. This fighter will be joining Sami during her reveal trailer much like Incineroar and Ken.

All Echo Fighters are viable except for Capcom-related franchises as well as third party franchises we included in Infinite. The following are open for submissions:
  • Metal Gear
  • Sega
  • Pac-Man
  • Final Fantasy
  • Bayonetta
  • Castlevania
  • Persona 5
  • Dragon Quest
  • Banjo-Kazooie
  • Fatal Fury/KoF
  • Minecraft
  • Tekken

We are looking for an Echo who can fill a wide gambit of classes; Richter to Ken class. We are hoping this doesn’t stifle submissions for our last launch third party Echo. When submitting content, please provide the following content:
  • Image
  • Character name and who they are an Echo of
  • Series and company
  • Why this character deserves to be included.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
6,094
Welp, last chance to use this:

I'm mostly submitting this one because my best friend has gone on record NUMEROUS times about how him not being an Echo in Ultimate was perhaps the biggest missed opportunity possible.

Third Party Echo Fighter: Liquid Snake
View attachment 308112

Liquid Snake is the main antagonist of Metal Gear Solid, and a very important character throughout the series. Created as a clone of the legendary soldier Big Boss (seemingly with his recessive genes), Liquid became a member of FOXHOUND, coming to blows with his fellow clone/twin brother Solid Snake after launching a hostile takeover of Shadow Moses Island in an attempt to gain Big Boss's remains. As I just now noted, Liquid shares a lot of the same traits as Solid Snake by virtue of them both being clones of the same person. Ergo, it wouldn't be too far out of the realm of possibility to assume that he would be able to fight in much of the same way, albeit with minor differences to set them apart competitively.
 
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Can I submit third party echoes of first party characters?

Fang the Sniper

Fang originates from Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog series. He would be a clone of Fox, his lasers would be swapped for corks and and his reflector would be swapped for the iconic Sonic shield. His different proportions would make him more on the Ken side than Richter, and his stats could even move him directly out of spacie territory if we desire. He also has a bouncy tail, but I don't think it'd be the end of the world if we left that out.

Fang is a cult classic villain who never fails to please crowds, and as Smash emphasises more recent Sonic titles it'd nice to give fans of the 90s-era games some love. Although he could be considered on the obscure side, he does have more history to his name than the likes of Geno or Grovyle & Celebi and even had a cameo as a boss illusion in Sonic Mania. Fang being, well, a sniper, means he would fit like a charm into Sami's war themed trailer
 
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cashregister9

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
4,114
Resubmitting Zack Fair

Job 86



Zack Fair (Final Fantasy VII) (Squre Enix)

Zack is from Gongaga and was Clouds good friend, Zack was the wielder of the buster sword before Cloud and knew a lot of the techniques that cloud does.

A potential to move idea is to replace his up special with a modified version of Sephiroth's Octaslash, A Move Zack has used in Crisis Core
 
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Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
8,227
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
Job #164: Ms. Pac-Man

1631668815302.png

One of the earliest and most famous female protagonists in gaming and one of the most iconic characters in gaming in general, Ms. Pac-Man would be an echo fighter of Pac-Man. Obviously she would be a Bandai Namco character and from the Pac-Man series. Her status as a Pac-Man clone is one of the few in gaming that rivals even Ken's status as the original clone of Ryu, and her arcade appearance has made her an icon of gaming as stated before. She had also become a major character of the Pac-Man franchise through the Pac-Man World games and other Pac-Man spin off titles.
 
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ivanlerma

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
1,574
Location
New Mexico
Job 146:
1631669769567.png


Shadow the Hedgehog
The Ultimate Life Form, seen as a rival to Sonic the Hedgehog. Shadow is a character that's been frankly requested for Smash for some time though he did receive a lot of attention during Ultimate, he is a pretty cool character who's got a lot of fans & would be a pretty great echo for the series.

While he would work better as a semi-echo, he can still be creative as a regular echo. Using the same attacks as Sonic but with some strong impact, can deliver extra kicks for his side attacks, teleport for his recovery, and use time stop counter similar to Bayonetta, His final smash can be Super Shadow combine with his Chaos Control to slow down opponents(could be avoided if you stay away from the screen) and end it with a Chaos Blast.
 

GolisoPower

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
2,875
Job #164:
1631678923328.png

Jin Kazama (Fighter #81e)
Debuting in Tekken 3, Jin Kazama is the son of Kazuya Mishima and the most pleasant of the Mishima bloodline...which isn't saying much since he literally started WWIII to kill his own parents. Though Kazuya was the initial protagonist of the franchise, that role was slowly turned towards Jin. In Smash Bros, Jin Kazama would be a Ken-level Echo Fighter who uses a lot of the same attacks as his own father, but on the other hand, he has some moves taken from both his normal and Devil forms. His Devil Form is also distinctive, giving him more of a "fallen angel" kind of aesthetic to him. A lot of his moves could be renamed to fit Jin himself, such as "Infernal Destruction" in place of Devil Blaster, "Infernal Annihilation" in place of Heaven's Door, amongst others.
 
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Glubbfubb

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
895
Vindicator_attacking.png

Illager (Echo of Steve)
The Minecraft Illager are NPCs from Steve's debut game of Minecraft, they act as mobs that work as the antithesis to Steve and the freindly villagers, they are hostile and attack in raids known as Pillager Raids, they have became very popular for taking what made Steve unique (Weapons, Mounts, Enchantments) and made them work against the player.

Illagers due to having a more occult origin will always have iron weapons, but instead of gaining resources for upgrades they can give enchanments to there weapons for a variety of harmful effects such as extra speed, strength, or have fire or wither properties, they would also summon multibel Vexes instead of Elytra, I think the Illagers would make a unique Chrom level Echo. They would also have similiar weight to steve.
 

Attachments

Adrianette Bromide

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
904
Location
Beeland Capital
Crow/Goro Akechi

PQ2_Goro_Akechi_(Crow).png


Temporary member of the Phantom Thieves, Crow would be a Joker echo. He is stands to be Joker's rival and handsome foil character. He joins the team after discovering their identities and wishes to change the heart of a fellow colleague. His specials could be mostly unchanged. His gun would act similarly to Joker's. His standard up B remains a grappling hook and his down B acts exactly like Joker's.

His Persona is Robin Hood. Its signature elements are Almighty, Bless and Curse so for his moveset, his side B could either be Megidola, Kouha or Eiha just as Joker uses but the projectile comes from an arrow. For his special up B, those are wing-like things, right?

Persona5_02012017_00118.jpg


Crow's most notable differenxe as an echo would be in his normals. Whether this teeters the line of echo or not, I don't know. His weapon motions would replicate Joker's but with his beam sword. They'd have a longer range to them but perhaps slower due to more weight. Any moves where Joker throws his dagger would simply be replaced (up tilt).
 

airConditioner

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
384
Location
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Alright, I'm very hesitant to bring this argument up from Leon's era to our current job, but I have a few reservations about Rock as Terry's echo. Granted, the SNK games I have played never have Rock outside of cameos, but relegating the young man to a Ken-tier echo may be stretching the limits of that boundary a bit too much.

Here's a few arguments by the resident SNK shill Mr. Robotto Mr. Robotto about why Rock would not work too well as Terry's echo:

As the resident SNK shill here I personally don't think a a Rock Howard echo over Terry makes the least bit of sense. They have way different build and body sizes and their movesets are more different than they are similar. Not only are most of their normals different, but so are their specials. The only moves that both Terry and Rock have in common are Crack Shoot and Rising Tackle. Rock doesn't have a Power Dunk, Power Wave, Burning Knuckle, Buster Wolf, Power Geyser, etc..

This isn't a simple Ken-Ryu situation, Ken originated as a clone of Ryu in the Street Fighter games. Hence why they all have the same specials in Smash. Rock Howard is an original fighter that has some Terry-inspired moves and some Geese ones. Not only will you be giving him entirely new moves as an echo (both normals and specials), but you'll be giving him new standing/run animations and you'll have to base him on a totally different model as well (Terry and Rock are completely different in build). And at that point... Rock would just be an entirely different character, not an echo.

If you think that 2 characters that can only share 2 specials with each other, while completely being different in build and therefore needing an entirely new model, could work as echoes of each other. Then I need to inform you, that's not really how echoes work lol.
I don't think it's quite fair to compare this entire situation to Ken and Ryu's. Ken and Ryu still have the same base model, the same stance/running animations, the same specials with some modified attributes (minor stuff like the total count of hits of tatsumaki senpukyaku) and still have some overlapping normals. And you can't compare it to Wii Fit Trainer's case either, because It's not really only the difference in build that's what keeping him from being an echo, but the fact that you'll be making a new model on top of making new animations and that already being on top of the fact that they only literally share one move so you'll have to create new ones.

Let me follow you through some major differences between Rock and Terry.

1. The difference in build and physique: Rock doesn't look like Terry at all, let's be real here. Rock looks more like Kyo in build than he does Terry. Rock is way slimmer and has a totally different fashion style. Rock doesn't have Terry's big guns, big chest and literal muscles popping out of his jeans. Rock neither has Terry's cap nor has the same jacket. To reflect this, we're gonna have to make a new model for Rock and we can't reuse Terry's one due to the major differences.

2. The difference in stance and animations: Everyone who has either played Garou or at least watched one or two clips of it knows the fact that Rock and Terry have a completely different stance animation (See: Spoilered Below). This change would've not been a big deal and would have just elevated Rock to Dark Samus-tier Echo, if not for the fact that we're already making an entirely new model for him as well.
3. The difference in moves: This one's the meat of the comparison. As I've said before, Rock and Terry only share one move which is Rising Tackle. I was a bit lenient by calling their Crack Shoot similar in my previous post, but in Garou Rock's Crack Counter is a counter so that's something you're gonna have to change as well. As about Rock's Reppuuken (which he took from Geese btw), the animation is wildly different from Terry's Power Wave and Rock can shoot 2 consecutive shots. Which already makes this special entirely different for as far as how projectiles go. You mentioned something about a Power Dunk-inspired move and I assume you're talking about one of Rock's Rage Run, if this were the only change from Rock to Terry it would've been fine, but as you can see from everything you've read already, this is simply not the case. And these are just addressing the changes for these certain moves. We still haven't addressed Burning Knuckle, Buster Wolf and Power Geyser as those are moves not performed by Rock and will have to need alternatives as well on top of the aforementioned Power Dunk, Crack Shoot and Power Wave.

And we're not even delving into the normals, I can't imagine for the life of me Rock doing Terry's aerials, safe for maybe his up-air which is already a move unique to Smash. I'm scared this is turning into one big essay so I'll just post some awesome gifs of Rock doing air moves that do the talking themselves.
View attachment 308199View attachment 308196View attachment 308197
None of these look like Terry's aerials in Smash
And I'd also like to end this note on the fact that Garou, the game where Rock comes from, doesn't use GO (Terry's entire gimmick) for his supers lol.

I get that you love Rock and want to rep the boy in Smash somehow, but trying to deform him into an echo of Terry would basically be slander at this point and I hope you understand. I love the edgy boy as well, and Garou: MotW is one of my favourite games, it's definitely a game I'm very passionate about.

That being said, people can still vote for Rock if they want. I just hope I've at least convinced some people that he wouldn't fit as an echo. If you're making a new model, on top of creating several new moves and animations for that character, and only reusing one move. That's way past an echo and Rock is more than that.
So TL;DR:

  • Rock and Terry have always been distinct fighters from each other, unlike Ken originating as a clone of Ryu
  • Their animations, models, and stances are completely different, which while isn't something that would completely kill the idea, it does increase the amount of work done on a character that's more of a "bonus"
  • Rock and Terry share a singular move, that being Rising Tackle.
  • Much of Geese's moves won't fit well over Terry's without completely altering the hitboxes and animations
  • Rock doesn't use the GO! mechanic

So while I do believe that Rock would be incompatible as an echo fighter of Terry, we will have to completely stretch the definitions of an Echo fighter for him. There's a lot of little things that wouldn't be too much of a problem on their own (see Dark Samus and their idle stance compared to Samus, Leon's different build compared to Jill), but they all add up to make an echo fighter that's less of an echo and more of a completely unique character. Attempting to stretch Rock's moveset from Garou: MotW and KOF XIV to fit the constraints of an echo fighter, especially to one similar to Ken would completely disservice both characters. I hope this helped convince some people about why Rock doesn't really work well as Terry's echo.
 

GolisoPower

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Alright, I'm very hesitant to bring this argument up from Leon's era to our current job, but I have a few reservations about Rock as Terry's echo. Granted, the SNK games I have played never have Rock outside of cameos, but relegating the young man to a Ken-tier echo may be stretching the limits of that boundary a bit too much.

Here's a few arguments by the resident SNK shill Mr. Robotto Mr. Robotto about why Rock would not work too well as Terry's echo:




So TL;DR:

  • Rock and Terry have always been distinct fighters from each other, unlike Ken originating as a clone of Ryu
  • Their animations, models, and stances are completely different, which while isn't something that would completely kill the idea, it does increase the amount of work done on a character that's more of a "bonus"
  • Rock and Terry share a singular move, that being Rising Tackle.
  • Much of Geese's moves won't fit well over Terry's without completely altering the hitboxes and animations
  • Rock doesn't use the GO! mechanic

So while I do believe that Rock would be incompatible as an echo fighter of Terry, we will have to completely stretch the definitions of an Echo fighter for him. There's a lot of little things that wouldn't be too much of a problem on their own (see Dark Samus and their idle stance compared to Samus, Leon's different build compared to Jill), but they all add up to make an echo fighter that's less of an echo and more of a completely unique character. Attempting to stretch Rock's moveset from Garou: MotW and KOF XIV to fit the constraints of an echo fighter, especially to one similar to Ken would completely disservice both characters. I hope this helped convince some people about why Rock doesn't really work well as Terry's echo.
You've convinced me. I found the perfect alternative. Scroll above.
 
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Big Boss (Echo of Snake)
Metal Gear Solid
Big Boss is literally Snake’s dad as his DNA was taken to create several other Snakes (Liquid Snake being one of them). He first appeared as a guide and protagonist in earlier MGS lore but would eventually become an anatagonist in later games. His past is revisited in more modern games with plyers being able to control him in missions. In terms of gameplay, he would be very similar to Snake but with sightly enhanced damage output but with reduced speed. His personality of the stage would be far more gruff and aggressive with quotes like “You’re finished” and “Stay dead.” He would be a far more aggressive and antagonistic Snake; both on character design and gameplay.

Can I submit third party echoes of first party characters?

Fang the Sniper

Fang originates from Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog series. He would be a clone of Fox, his lasers would be swapped for corks and and his reflector would be swapped for the iconic Sonic shield. His different proportions would make him more on the Ken side than Richter, and his stats could even move him directly out of spacie territory if we desire. He also has a bouncy tail, but I don't think it'd be the end of the world if we left that out.

Fang is a cult classic villain who never fails to please crowds, and as Smash emphasises more recent Sonic titles it'd nice to give fans of the 90s-era games some love. Although he could be considered on the obscure side, he does have more history to his name than the likes of Geno or Grovyle & Celebi and even had a cameo as a boss illusion in Sonic Mania. Fang being, well, a sniper, means he would fit like a charm into Sami's war themed trailer
While third party characters could potentially be an echo of a first party character, that list is extremely small due to the fact the character must be iconic, important, relative, and representative of the series they are from. Fang the Sniper does not qualify therefore won’t be accepted
 
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Does the character have to share a trailer with Sami? It's really limiting our echo options. In fact, I feel that the whole third party echoes sharing thing is the reason we're yet to see Ms. Pac-Man.
 

Jondolio

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Is Persona 5 the only game viable for an Echo submission or can the other protags be submitted as Joker Echoes?
I'm not the biggest Persona expert, but Yu (the protagonist of P4) uses a katana as far as I'm aware, so that's not an option.
 
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