I'm a third of the way through, here's what I've got so far. I'll be using the +/- system Chibi cat used in SSBB mafia.
(As a side note, these notes I'm making come as I read the posts. So, they don't take into account events/posts I haven't gotten to yet.)
To begin, there are a few things you all should know.
1) I am prone to tunneling. Specifically, I am prone to tunneling on anyone who refuses to cooperate with me. Any such refusal is a disservice to the town and will only serve to further it's destruction. More accurately, do what is best for Town and we are cool.
2) I wrote this opening statement before the game began. As of this writing, I am unaware of my alignment. Do NOT use this post as evidence of any sort.
Stop right there. We have no evidence that you're telling the truth here, if you found you got a lumberjack role you could have easily modified the post. Everything in a mafia game is evidence. -1 Cello.
3a) "Time waste" is the only universal scum tell. This is not true in practice, of course, but I take it as a sign of scumminess. Do not waste time.
I disagree that its the only universal scumtell, (quickhammering and skimming are things I also consider universal scumtells), but it is one.
3b) For this game only, waiting for responses for an undue amount of time will also be seen as a scumtell, since we can effectively force as many day lynches as we can fit into the Day time frame (i.e. deny scum their Night Kills) until we hit scum.
Agreed.
4a) Any hammer will be taken as a sign of scum, with one exception, since we can request that that person stumps him/herself. Instead, any person who wishes to hammer will declare, in bold, "I wish to hammer" or "Declaration of intent to hammer". From the time of that declaration to 24 hours later or 1 hour before the deadline (this must be strictly enforced, as people are not on at all times of the day. 4-6 hours is NOT sufficient in the former case), whichever is shorter, the accused will have the opportunity to stump. If it is not taken, the declarer will hammer without prejudice or credit.
I agree with setting a rule of giving 24 hours for them to stump. Obviously, if they have V/LA or something we should change the amount of time a little for them.
4b) Declare your intent to put someone at L-1. Make a post saying, "In ten minutes, I'm going to vote for [name]. Do not vote unless you intend to hammer that person.", or something similar. Then, vote ten minutes later. This will prevent people from accidently, or "accidently", hammering. Honestly, I'd rather this be standard practice, but it's of special note for this game.
I find that ninja hammers are pretty rare, and usually scum when they do happen. However, this rule definitely can't hurt, so what's the harm?
5) On any Day in which there are exactly two more trees than lumberjacks, we should not vote past [L-(number of Lumberjacks + 1)]. Any "votes" at this point should be written, in bold, as "Declaration to put [name] at L-#", or the like. If we do not do this, then we lose the opportunity to force that person to stump and therefore gain another lynch if we are wrong.
Basically, BE CAREFUL WITH VOTES IN MYLO! However, this is a bit unwieldy. I propose simply using FOS's instead of votes in MYLO and LYLO situations until we're ready to lynch.
6) Portion redacted.
7) Random idiocy for the "purpose of generating discussion" is just random idiocy. Doing it to prove or showcase a point is a different matter.
Doesn't 6) violate 7) here?
8a) Wh4ile I am aware that the following is something that cannot be proven, I strongly urge that you believe that it is more important that you prove your innocence to me than it is for you to believe that I am innocent.
8b) There are no town tells, only scum tells.
I diagree. There are town-tells. (Lynching scum, defending town, claiming a provable PR and proving it, etc.) However, scum-tells are more important.
9) If I am scum, I am going to go out of my way to try to avoid my scumtells.
Duh.
10) Metagaming is the foundation of a good mafia game. It is, however, not the meat of a good mafia game.
11a) Busing happens. However, it does not happen on the first page.
11b) See 8b.
12a) A person being "due to be (town/mafia)" is not a good case. However, I don't think it's a bad thing to consider it if you are otherwise dead even in your opinions between two people. Just be sure to actually let people know that's all you've got the reason you're voting the way you are.
12b) Any consideration of 12a or similar does not apply to groups. i.e. How could all the ICs be town?
12c) I am due to be mafia, unless you consider scum to be non-town. I don't.
A person being "due to be (town/mafia)" is idiotic and should never be considered. -1 for that.
However, despite a few anti-town nuggets hidden in the above, I feel that most of it (mainly the stuff about stumping and hammering and L-1 and whatnot) is pro-town. So, +2 for Cello for those.
Additional content written after OP:
@today: If we find and lynch two scum, would you be willing to stump yourself? Describe any extenuating circumstances should they exist.
@super smash bros. fan: Familiarize yourself with popcorn style games, if you are not. Also, do you have an opinion of my alignment?
@brockin: Rule # is completely unfair, don't you think? (This is not a request to remove that rule) Go into detail as to why you think it is fair/unfair.
@the-man: @Xonar portion: What do you think of the idea of playing the game normally until we mislynch, then pretending that we're playing Popcorn with that person as the gunbearer? @Ryker portion: I can't think of anything to say now that I have to interact with you. Obviously, this is intended less for your benefit and more for people that are reading it. I'll let you start.
@omis: Pay special note to 4a and 4b of my list above. No movie will save you if you violate it. Also, don't watch movies while posting. Also, refresh before posting. Also, vote for sworddancer..
@heatstroke: Fifth game. Don't refer to this stage as "RVS". From now on, please call it the UVS (Uninformed Vote Stage), if you must call it anything. It is not truly random, nor is the intent stress relief. There are much more suitable pursuits to the latter end. Also, get into an argument with Summoner. I want to see what happens.
@sworddancer: See end of post. I won't take it off until I find someone better, or if I feel like it.
@pierre the scarecrow: How much should I second-guess myself? [I really couldn't think of anything else] (Offnote: Thanks for running Miller's, it was fun.)
@summonerau: I admit it, I can't read you. As such, I'm going to trust someone else's opinion on you, but I'm not sure who yet. Do you have a suggestion as to who I should defer to?
@*the jester*: Hello.
@the paprika killer: Repeat performance time. I've always wondered how this would be taken, even though I've taken pains to not do so. Tell me three things about you that you think will be relevant to this game. Also, talk to Ryker tHe-Man.
@hydras: Aren't you glad there's no rule 23? Do you think what I'm fishing for here is a tell? (for you, it's not a tell about me, maybe, and if it is, it's a wrong one, probably)
@Mod: Request Deadline Extension
vote sworddancer.
Move, move, move, move.
I don't really see the point to all of the above, but it generates discussion if nothing else.
@Heatstroke: So far, I've always been very forthcoming with information that would be in town's best interests, yes. However, the only time I've ever actually gone after scum (in such a way to get that person killed) was when that person actually admitted that he was scum. My indy play is irrelevant here.
Also, keep talking to Summoner. You'll be my go-to guy for reads on him. tHe-Man too. As in two. Lol.
Also, you sound as though you approve of my suggestions. What do you like, specifically, and why? Do you have any further suggestions or alternatives?
Any anti-town play is relevant. However, you bringing up your own meta makes me wary, as those who know their own meta can manipulate it. (Self-evident, but I'll say it anyway.)
Only when I'm town, so far, I think.
Also, "Summoner, you're extremely joyous in this game", "...so you do what's best for town even if you're scum?", and "...do you always lead like this?". You've gotten answers to all of these questions. What information have you gleaned from them? Don't relate the specifics if you wish, but a generalization is fine.
Taking his question as an opportunity to try to subtly hint that you're town? Why would you be worried about that so quickly?
Vote Cello
+1 Sworddancer. -1 Cello. Points out how Cello's reinforcing "I'm town" in the answer given.
@Sworddancer: And just what do you hope to accomplish by voting for me? Have an answer to that question soon. Also, subtle? I pretty much said that I only act this way as town.
Don't feel like commenting on anything else? Thoughts on Heatstroke?
Omis, vote for Sworddancer. Let's get him to L-1.
Heatstroke's good too. To "lynch".
Feels like Oh-my-gosh-you-suck here. Not enough reason for so much aggressiveness. -1 Cello.
Current count:
Swordancer: 1
Cello: -2
Everyone else: Zip.
I voted for to add pressure to my question.
Maybe subtle was the wrong word to describe it, but what you did still bothers me. To get it straight, were you saying: "Okay, what I just did is what I do when I'm town."? That seems weird. I know that you were answering HS question, but it seems like you might also be taking advantage of the question so you can give an answer that covers your tracks (if your scum).
Also, no right now I don't have really any comments on that many people. Summoner did the same thing as you, were he basically just immediately said "I'm town!" Sure, it was said in a light hearted manner, but I still don't like it.
My thoughts on HS? I have none so far. He hasn't really done anything.
What tracks exactly are you referring to here?
@Sworddancer: "Add pressure to your question?" You didn't seem to care that I didn't actually answer it/them. Assuming that I had continued to not answer it/them, would you have taken that as a sign of scumminess? In my experience, that is seldom the case. If it would not have been, why was pressure necessary?
Also, you've claimed that Heatstroke hasn't done anything, but you acknowledge that the time I supposedly "gave an answer to cover my tracks" was in response to a question by Heatstroke. On that note, what "tracks" are you referring to, specifically? Surely, no matter what my alignment is, I would have had to have expected some sort of response from my opening statements (especially since there are people here that I've never played with before). How could I have expected that Heatstroke would have made such a comment? Are you suggesting that Heatstroke was trying to create a link to me? Do you think that his question was a ploy engineered by the two of us (i.e. do you think that we're scummates)? If so, why do you say that you have nothing on Heatstroke? If not, what would I have done (as scum) if Heatstroke hadn't made that comment?
Quality post and makes good points. +1 Cello.
Cello, how can you say that this is how you act as town when your first (and largest by far) post was written before you knew your alignment? It would then be also how you act as scum. By the way, I would agree that your first post is far more pro-town than it is pro-scum, but its also a bit pro-Cello... not that that is a bad thing if you are town.
Cello, you should second-guess yourself until you get that heavy feeling in your head that you are doing it too much.
Also, thanks to Cello_Marl and HeatStroke for making the confirmation stage take forever!
I think that Rockin made the most recent Brockin post because he referred to a single person as "them."
vote: *The Jester*
Reason for the jester vote? The first point about Cello was good though, so +1 for that.
current count:
Pierre: 1
Swordancer: 1
Cello: -1
Generally seeing why he would act different from game to game, while it's metagaming it's still something i was curious about.
Your opening post had no emotion, nothing to base off whether you're town or not, you admitted yourself that you wrote most of these messages regardless of your alignment (in fact your alignment wasn't known while writing it).
What i've gotten for the information is that you're leading just as you said you "usually do" as town. However I've noticed a common scumtell that players tend to say "i always do this as town" or "i never do this as mafia" when they actually are the opposite of what they're implying.
*Sighs*. Roxy apparently never noticed that Cello could have easily altered that first post after receiving the alignment PM. However, I like the point about meta.
Tell-wise, I think the two things cancel out. +0 Roxy.
Greetings, my fellow trees. It seems I am the newest tree in town. Don't take me lightly though, for I am The Jester!
The Jester likes Cello Marl's attitude. Yes, activity and questions are good. Cello Marl seems like an oak among trees.
Vote: Pierre the Scarecrow
The Jester does not like your lack of reasoning for your vote. RVS? Discussion has already started, my leaf covered friend.
Sworddancer, your suspicions based on 'I'm town' are weak like a wet tissue. Tell me, what is your favourite method of scumhunting?
The Jester thinks the less kills those dirty humans get, the better. We should use the first day to get to know eachother, gain information as we speak. Then on Day 2 we should have our glorious battle, and lynch til the evil cutters have been exterminated. There are three of them, we can't afford to have two or more of our most powerful trees be silenced.
Brockin! Our lives are in danger! This is no time to relax, even on page two we must use our strength! You are suspicious, what tree would defend non-contributors? Tell The Jester, when do you plan to hunt?
I'd like to ask all of you: How should we lynch? Should we lynch one suspect a day? Two a day? No lynch on the first day? Spent all our lynches on the first day? So many possibilites... The Jester has already stated his opinion, now it's your turn.
Wonderful rules. These should be posted on every page for great justice.
First off, quit jesting. Your posting style is annoying to read. There's a couple quality points here (The one about stumping as much as possible, minimizing mafia kills, questioning Pierre about the random vote.) However, that bit directed at Brockin and the last paragraph feels like fluff. Neutral post overall.
It should be pretty apparent that I stated that my better half (which is SwordsrBroken) has been posting the first several where as I (Rockin), is now on my 2nd post (the last post before this was also done by me).
Like I said, I forgot all about it. The other side of my brain just reminded me about this game today.
Only cause it seems like the most affective to use. Everyone can practically suicide and instead of just lynching, we can force those that seem scummy to suicide. By doing this, we can lower the possibility of mislynching someone.
From here on out, I'm not giving townie points for suggesting stumping instead of lynching, as it should be obvious by now.
This was supposed to be post #35, but down time sucks. So I added a little more.
@All: Show of hands please. Who wants to make this game into Popcorn (with Nightkills)? I'll count tHe-Man and myself as "yes"s.
It took me a while to figure out what you meant, and now that I know...
NO!!!!!!!!
Horrible idea. Even though scum would never get the "gun" so to speak, the gun would pass among the newbie town (as they're the likeliest mislynches), and I will not stand by and watch super-townie-X die simply because idiot-Y thinks he's scum. And we haven't even gotten to the practical problems of making the idea work.
-2 Cello.
Pretend we're down to the last 2 days in a Day, and it will feel normal (including the total lack of hunting and information [I'm just being bitter]). I already did by requesting an extension.
Bad Cello. Save extension until needed. Another -1 for you.
Really now...? How many times did you visit the thread before you noticed it?
I had a reason at the time, but I don't remember anymore. Oh well.
I expounded upon this in #25.
Anyway, "Hydras' ability to post their communication logs (it is, after all, someone talking to himself) is completely unfair, don't you think? (This is not a request to remove that rule) Go into detail as to why you think it is fair/unfair."
I am very interested in your response.
Stop skimming, half of you. There's only one page (40 count, I'd recommend it); reading it thoroughly shouldn't be that tough. Dancer was saying that he had nothing on HS because of that reason, not that he was condemning HS for doing nothing.
Okay.
This is how I act is town. This is not how I normally act as scum. Even in this game, I'm sure I'd have acted differently than I have so far (except the numerical list [although I made no promise about edits {lol}]) if my alignment was different.
Quit manipulating your meta to paint yourself as town, I'm tired of it.
I thought it was Swords since he referred to Dancer as "Dancer". Still, does this make a difference to you in any way?
Yes.
Wow, this couldn't have worked out as perfectly if I had planned it. It's not really filler unless it's the only thing you're paying attention to when I'm posting. In which case, you (plural) are admitting to skimming. Not good if you're trying to levy an argument against someone.
Filler is filler, regardless of content elsewhere.
Yes, it is necessary. What would we do if two people "accidentally" voted at the same time? Lynch them both? What if they truly did do it as an accident? We'd lose 4 people (1 to lynch, 1 to NK, and 2 to self-stump) compared to 1 (asking the first person to self-stump). This being in place with remove any potential for waste.
Good point, +1.
See Cello-Rule 1.
Both. The second implies the first.
It's not necessary that you do. I'm fishing for reactions from...ah. I guess just Xonar and Summoner (as far as I am aware). I should have chosen a different repeat performance.
No real comment on this.
Which implies you'd get into a trench war over something significant, too. Let's end this then. Say no to time waste. Vote for Heatstroke. Or Pierre.
Give at least some reason.
This looks counter-intuitive. Why wait until Day 2 to start lynching? That just gives lumberjacks a Night Kill.
Agreed.
@Brockin: Both of your halves ignored my #25. That's no good.
Since Marshy edited the OP and added "OP hijacked from Xiivi", it stands to reason that Xiivi's rule 23 was the original Macman rule 23. And it is.
23) Hydras may freely quote text logs of conversations, after all it's only the playerslot talking to itself. Sadly, hydras are not allowed to play in this game.
Oh, well, I suppose you didn't ignore my #25, somewhat. Regardless, rule #24 says:
As far as I am aware, your ability to communicate with other players is derived from your hydra-nature, not from your role PM. As such, this rule does not apply to you in this case. You should be able to post your hydra logs. Comment on your ability to post your logs. Assuming that you can, do you think that is fair or unfair? Why?
As there are no hidden town PR's, I support Hydra's posting their convo logs.
You're unsure how to go about this, but you have an opinion on what we should do? Why does 1 lynch/1 suicide seem like a good idea? Do you not see the merit of "suicide until we hit scum"?
Agreed again.
@Today: Please use Cello. Not everyone knows me as Charlie (or Cirno, despite avatar). Everything else I was going to say or mention has been addressed.
@Pierre: I wondered about that too, but he/she/they seem too familiar in his/her/their style to be just an offsiter. It's probably at least an alias, although I don't think it matters much.
unvote vote Pierre
Summoner and Omis, please join me.
tl;dr: Heatstroke, Pierre, and Brockin are the scum. Good game.
Not enough evidence yet.
Contradictory? If you never looked at the thread when it was closed, you wouldn't have known to confirm your role by quoting back the rules to the mod in a PM. So then you would have made the confirmation stage take forever. But if you read the rules, you would have looked at the thread when it was closed, right? So... how did you know to confirm your role PM, again?
Nice catch. However, it's a pretty pointless thing to lie about.
See? I told you bussing doesn't take place on the first page. Pierre waited until post #41 (i.e. page 2) to bus Heatstroke.
That is a very compelling case. We'll kill Heatstroke last, though. Since it's a sure thing. Pierre first.
-1. Too pushy.
@Brockin;
Fair enough. Admittedly, I didn't know you guys were a Hydra.
Seriously, how could you not know they were a hydra?
When you received your PM role did you not decide to check the thread then?
I see your reasoning. Although, with suicides we still lose town players. Do you think this is risky? Have you played a Stump game before?
Or @everyone, Anyone else played Stump? If so, what worked vs what didn't. Thoughts and ideas on how we should go about suicides and lynching?
The ideas Cello gave are sufficient, I think.
Alright, I'm gonna start with Cello. I feel addressing the waves of BS is important. I'll move on to Brockin and Pierre when I get home from the university. Possibly more to follow after another reread from that point.
Honestly, I don't have much of a problem with these if it weren't for one glaring problem. You keep promoting putting someone at L-1. Why? If you're putting a scum at L-1, he's not gonna stump for us. He's gonna off himself in order for scum to get a kill. There is no doctor, so that means they can kill off whoever they want and said person will be completely unable to communicate which is bad. I don't think scum will pick someone unhelpful. They'll kill someone vocal because there's no reason not to.
I hadn't considered it, but you're right. +1 for you.
I really don't get the second part because I don't know what that rule would be.
Alright, I'll start. I'm a very, very aggressive player. You played with me on a scum team where I abused my newbie status to lurk. I hate lurking. I hate lurkers. I don't like your playstyle. Playing in a hydra with Xonar affects me. He tends to make me slow down and consider what I'm doing. I hold cards more to trump people later. I like that. However, I don't always do that. I think the beginning of the game calls for a much more direct approach. We don't generally post without reaching a consensus when we're both awake (time zones are fairly different). When we act on our own (such as now) we generally sign posts. I don't like people telling me what to do. I like telling people what to do. I get angry when people are ******** after something has been spelled out in front of them. Any other questions?
Quick note, I like the idea of you guys signing posts.
I'm all for forcing you to stump first so I don't have to deal with the fact that your playstyle reeks of scum and I've been assured it's how you play as town. I don't like that at all. Why the hell would you do that?
Vote: Cello
Another +1.
NO! NO! NO!
Do NOT use our deadline extension. Especially if you're intent on giving scum the ability to quickhammer themselves. What are you thinking? Why not use our deadline extension later when we have more information. Stalling to get more lynches later sounds like a much better plan.
Ryker's on a roll here. One more +1 for you.
No it isn't. Anti-town play is completely relevant. So long as you act in a way that is Anti-town you should be lynched for it.
At this rate, I'm gonna use an OVER 9000 reference. +1.
Are you doing what Tom did for KevinM in Batma(n)fia?
No one likes being told what to do. It's people like you and I who enjoy watching people's reactions when they're told what to do. I can respect that. As much as I dislike the way you play, I think I understand it.
Okay.
Doesn't stop it from being WIFOM and irrelevant.
Don't force people's hands. Even in this game, giving scum a guide on who to kill when night phase eventually rolls around isn't cool.
Right again.
WIFOM. Go get yourself run over by a bus if you're gonna try that ****.
No, don't put him at L-1. I've already explained that that is a HORRIBLE idea.
Has nothing to do with me, so I'm going to ignore it. Just didn't want you to think I'm cherry picking posts.
Personally, I'd rather have gotten an opinion on it or just had it ignored. Anyone making a scum attack could find a post or two they didn't cherrypick. -1.
I would like an answer to that question.
Okay, first off. I see what you did there and I'm not commenting in your scum list.
Second, **** YOU! GO KILL YOURSELF!!!!!!!
Why the hell would you want to make this Popcorn Mafia? You don't get the clear without sacrificing the player. Are you trying to whittle down our numbers faster? This would be closer to KingMaker and still a bad idea. I have no intention of giving anyone control over what we do in a phase. There's a lot more town than scum and majority rule is one of our greatest strengths. Give me a good reason why I would EVER agree to give up majority rule?
Yet another +1 for Ryker.
It does take place on page one. I believe I was doing my ****edest to bus you on page one of Batma(n)fia.
Now, if I remember correctly, you only bussed when forced to, it wasn't in your beginning plans. I'm going to go back and check your postgame commentary, but I'm not sure about this.
If don't like Pierre either. However, I think you're bussing him.
Why not?
Anyway, all in all, tHe_man is THE MAN.
@Heatstroke: Pierre caught you in a trap of your own words. There's a world of difference between "I never checked" and "I checked once". It's something you would have remembered. Stump yourself.
You claim that you checked it once when the thread opened, and once more after the game started. You also claimed that you confirmed. In other words, you want us to believe that you memorized all the rules and quoted them back to Macman without looking at the thread. That's unreasonable.
Stump yourself, or be lynched.
I believe this is what Xivii called "surface-level-scumhunting." Sure, there's no reason for town to lie about it, but no reason for scum to lie about it either. I'll keep an eye on Roxy, but I'm not going to gun for a lynch over it.
@Today:
This reminds me of the hard time I was having convincing people that we should let Mentos die in Miller's. Basically, a suicide means only one death, whereas a lynch means two deaths if we were wrong. Forcing suicides means we get about a 50% increase in lynches, unless we lynch correctly, in which case their shouldn't be any complaint anyway.
Why are we still having conversations over this anyway? It should be obvious.
Oh, whoops. Ok. My questions are equally designed to show intent and gather information. I plan to lead until I am dead, and leave a plan of action for Days 2 and 3. I plan to get Pierre, Heatstroke and Brockin lynched.
Explaining the numerical list.
1) This has happened in Miller's (versus too many to count), Nothing Special (against Marc and Kat), Grammy's (also Marc), and Popcorn (against Frozen). I'd rather it not happen again.
2) This is mostly a lie.
Not liking that you lied with #2. Not liking it at all.
3) Making sure the game pace is fast, so we can get as many lynches in a Day as possible.
4) Dissenters to this opinion are obvscum/mislynch bait. There's no reason I wouldn't make this statement. As town, it's in our best interest. As scum, it's worth great town cred.
5) Prevent end quicklynches on MyLo and gets town another lynch. Much like 4) in reason.
6) I thought people would comment on this more...oh well. Don't do it now, it's unimportant.
7) At this point I begin ranting. Inspired by (but not directed at) Summoner (and Vult Redux).
8) Just believe it. Believe.
9) When I'm town, I lie, when I'm scum, I tell the truth. This was just preparing for that contingency (if my role was scum).
10) Inspired by (but not directed at) Frozenflame (which would have been odd, him not being in the game and all).
11) Rant.
12) Bait.
It's nice to get a little insight into all of this.
Awesomesauce.
I'll count you as half a vote then.
Just scrap the whole idea please!
@Paprika: Stop acting like Omis. He can explain what I mean by that. Heck, I even used a direct quote in my repeat performance. Actually, I'm looking forward to his comments on that.
There isn't any. I said that it can't be proven in the first place.
Then why are you telling us to believe it?
Read why I think Heatstroke is scum and you'll see why it matters.
There wasn't a whole lot of reasoning that I could see, really.
Sure.
That's right. Do you only read lines directed at you? That's no good.
What's rule 28?
Popcorn games are when one person has the full authority of the lynch, and unlike King games, if they are right, they keep their power, and if they are wrong, they die and their target gets that power. In this case, they wouldn't die, but you get the idea.
Guess I'm just afraid of overstumping or w/e. Like I said, it's just an opinion I rather go then just stumping one person after another before losing like...3 or 4 townies in a row. Really, I'm just using traditional mafia tactics here (so as to see the lynch result, see what happens after N1, then start D2 with possible new leads).
Don't like this. After all, we're denying mafia NK's. What's not to like? -1.
Meh, I'll have to talk to my better half to see what he thinks, but I don't think I'd be interested. Can you explain how it'd be of some benefit in this game?
Don't particularly like the wishy-washiness, but +1.
Totally not in agreement with it. I like to conversate with my better half, as he's the only one I can trust. It...wouldn't be much communication if we posted our logs in the thread, where we could just share our thoughts to you as we are now. I don't see the logic or benefit in this ability, and would much rather keep all logs to ourselves.
As there are no town PR's, there should be nothing to hide.
Right, cause it's my opinion, and you can choose to either follow it or not. (I should've just said 'suggestion,' but both sound similar to me. *shrugs* )
I already explained this issue to Pierre, but like I said, I'm following traditional Mafia tactics here.
That's a bit of a big assumption so early in the game. o.o Is there any reason besides the fact that I'm totally not agreeing with you?
also, you havn't replied to that issue I said about Omis. >>
I got the reminder from swords, then checked the PM, THEN looked at the game (as well as caught up)
It's not as risky as mislyncing a townie. If they suicide, we get to look at another target and possibly lynch them (or go for another suicide).
and yes, this is my first time playing 'Stump.' Not sure if this is for my other half.
>:
Meanie.
Why are we still bothering with pussyfooting around when there are real cases afoot?
FoS: Omis
Asking questions about game mechanics and other miscellaneous stuff is not nearly as useful as furthering the current discussion. You're only giving people an out to not taking stances by providing a distraction. Go die if you're gonna keep that **** up.
Omis, who should we lynch and why?
Yet another +1 for Ryker, pressuring someone who's been not-that-active and hadn't taken a stance.
He lied, purposelly or not, about checking the thread. Hence, I asked him a question about lying.
Game has just started and most people havent posted more than three or so times. It would be silly for me cement myself down to a person that I think should be lynched.
@Cello
Why have you specifically asked me to vote for people?
And what does being an Omis mean?
I don't see why you can't take a stance. If new evidence comes up and you decide you're wrong, then just change it, and post why. -1 Omis.
No. It would be making a stance. It would be letting us know who you think is scum. It would be not waiting on the sidelines until the safe option appears. I'm not saying you can't change your mind, so pick someone and say why we should lynch them.
At this rate everyone's going to think I'm buddying tHe-Man. Well, what he's saying is true, so yet another +1.
What's it matter? I don't expect scum to stump for us. Their role is revealed, so it wouldn't give them any benefit, and asking someone to stump when they have no pressure on them isn't going to do much.
However, I did just think of something else. We could all just...not vote at all. Just make declarations of intent to vote. Then, if someone refuses to stump, we can add them to the lynch queue.
Nice idea. +1 Cello.
Xonar, please take Ryker's vote off of me. We both agree on Pierre, so let's get him.
I don't like that you're asking for less votes? Is the pressure getting to you?
-1 Cello.
I don't get what you mean by this.
I was answering a question directed at me. That is relevant.
Scum. SCUM. SCUM SCUM SCUM. You are scum.
Post all of your conversation logs within 4 hours and I might believe you aren't. Otherwise, I'll never let go.
This seemed a bit pushy at first, but as I don't really see a problem with posting the logs, I'll give Cello a +1.
Omis doesn't like to make a presence for himself. That was a way to drag him into the game (ineffective, at that). Or he just wasn't on.
*shrug*. There are other ways I'd try at first, but whatever.
I totally forgot about that, somehow. Probably because there's no way it'll happen since it would mean there's no reason to kill stumps. Since any stump could act as a Speaker for the Dead.
Yeah, that'd be pretty broken.
So stop.
1) It's an action you've seen me take before. It should force you to make an opinion on me.
2) The way you and I interacted in Miller's on Day 1. Don't you think Paprika is acting the same way that you did? What do you think that indicates about his alignment?
Yes, you should.
1. today - dunno, probably town
2. super smash bros. fan - dunno, probably town
3. brockin (rockin/swordsrbroken hydra) - probably scum
4. the-man (ryker/xonar hydra) - very probably town
5. omis - dunno
6. heatstroke - very probably scum
7. sworddancer. - probably town
8. pierre the scarecrow - very probably scum
9. summonerau - probably town
10. *the jester* - 4thmost scum
11. the paprika killer - very probably town
12. cello_marl - there are three scum
Let's force:
Brockin
Heatstroke
Pierre
Today
SSBF
Omis
The Jester
Sworddancer or Summoner
to stump themselves, in that order. We should win if we do that.
What's with the stump order? It doesn't match your scumlist.
lol at SSBF basically lurking and being town
vote : cello
Heh. Fair point.
Heatstroke, if you stump, then I'll stump myself too. Deal?
Let's look through it.
1) Cello town, Roxy town:
If Roxy agrees, we lose 2 townies,
else Cello continues pressuring until that happens and we lose 2 townies anyway. Bad idea.
2) Cello town, Roxy scum:
Kill a scum. It works.
3) Cello Scum, Roxy town:
From Cello's point of view, it'd be dumb, as we'd trade 2 town for 1 scum, which is reasonable.
4) Cello scum, Roxy scum:
A giant bus by Cello to gain townie points.
So, either way, Cello is very confident that Roxy's scum. Well, I don't really share that confidence, unless you're scum, I don't see you being that confident this early.
That offer is open to Pierre and Brockin too.
Also, I encourage the town to "vote" on that proposition as well.
See above.
So.
I'm scum for not in agreement for posting our logs. Right.
I'm just not in agreement with it, and you not even giving me a reason as to post them is just making me want to secure it. =/
Hmm.... Agreed that Cello needs to say why. Even though I outlined it above.
A simple vote on him would be an acceptable way to make people post. Or get them to replace/get modkilled (I'm gunning for replacement). Either or, really. Trying to dictate his vote is not a way to drag a person into the game.
+1.
For someone who seems real keen on us being scum, you don't seem too confident in that bold spot right there. *rolls eyes* If you really feel I'm scum, then I suggest you make a case about it. I don't think I've (or my other half) said anything scummy thus far.
Fair point.
Omis, it's been about a page or two. Don't you have something more to say besides cello dictating you?
vote: Omis
I'm interested to hear what The-man has to say about us.
Another fair point.
I don't want to be forced to go into Night Phase before I've had a chance to say everything I want to in case of NKill. Are you saying you're okay with letting scum control when the day ends?
Your idea is a pretty good one. The only reason I say we use votes is for the convenience of vote counts.
Btw, it's just me, atm. Xonar is asleep. I can easily swing Pierre and plan to go reread through for him and GSF. However, I want to make god**** certain no one takes you for granted.
In Batma(n)fia, Tom said he was simply going to assume Kevmo was town. He said it was up to everyone else to figure it out if he wasn't because second guessing himself about Kevmo only hurt his deductive skills.
I was talking about the question itself and it's answer. Neither matter.
1.) I want clarification on if that's legal before you make that declaration.
2.) I agree that that post reeked.
SEE OMIS!? BE VOCAL!!!!!
I don't support it atm because I don't know what's going on. Let me get to your list to explain.
Okay, as much as you're trying to annoy me with this, I don't have a problem with someone volunteering a scum list on D1. Opinions can change, especially D1 ones, so it's a good place to start. However, trying to force someone else to share a secret they obviously want to keep for later isn't cool. Note that that isn't the same thing from trying to get stances out of people.
Now, for your list.
Don't remember exactly why you're pushing HeatStroke.
Agree with GSF and Pierre.
Why is Summoner town?
Who the hell is *The Jester* and has anyone played with him prior to this.
We should stump four people today, methinks, and use our extension tomorrow if it isn't over.
(OOC note: I'm in a bit of a hurry now, so my comments will be a bit more rushed) +2, quality post.
First off, let's assume a couple of situations.
1) if i was lumberjack, and you were correct, would you still stump? Or would you find it worthless seeing how You killed lumberjack so you aren't a lumberjack obviously.
2) if we are both town, what's the point of this deal? We lose two trees, not good
3) If you're lumber jack and i'm town, and i flip town, would you still continue with your flip?
I have more to say, but internet going out
What's the point of this post? Isn't one. -1.
First thing Cello Marl. Please don't produce huge Wall of Text. It puts people off and makes it hard to read.
Some response from Cello Marl:
-1. Wall of text isn't a bad thing, I like cases.
I hate to be the bear of bad news, but that's life. The same thing happen to me in the Muppet Mafia and if I were to get tunnel again, I know it's my fault. Just because they don't cooperate with you does mean it's a bad thing.
That doesn't mean we can't find some rules annoying. This is Mafia, any post can be used as evidence, whenever you like it or not.
Right, +1.
Remember, a person can be lazy, but it isn't always a scum tell.
Yeah, people do have RL, but it is a marginal scum tell.
Please elaborate on this. I have absolutely no clue what you're saying.
Oh, look at the irony! This is a scum tell, for it waste time. Let use this as an example.
I'm holding the hammer. But I have to follow this rule. There is ten minutes left and I promise to hammer in five minutes. I forget and twenty minutes later, there is an no lynch. How do you like that? And you say that we shouldn't waste him. Contradiction in the same post.
Actually, I don't think you interpreted the rule correctly.
See above.
I really couldn't care about this rule one bit.
What in the world did you just say?
You're not doing an very good job if you are scum. Look, you are currently the main candidate for a lynch.
Heh.
Please elaborate.
This post was very scummy from my eyes. I also don't like this quote:
First off, what's wrong with long posts? As long as they are good reads, they contribute to the game in a positive way, and aren't guilty of Wall Of Text, their is nothing wrong with long posts.
What's the difference? -1.
Also, when you posted this, I read all of Heatstroke's, Pierre's, and Brockin's posts and from what I can tell. I have seen absolutely nothing scummy out of them. Plus, how can you determind that they are scum? We've just started yesterday, so it's not a good idea to guess scum teams until we can get concrete evidences that can support this. I'm all for possible scum teams when we have lots of information, but this early in the game? Of course not.
And I just remember this. Why did you ask for an Deadline Extension RIGHT at the beginning of the game? If we do it now, we'll waste the oppertunity to use it later, when we need to.
Overall, from me reading the thread multiple time, easily my top lynch candidate is Cello Marl. With that said:
Unvote, Vote: Cello Marl
@Today: No, I have never played a Stump Mafia game. As a matter of fact, I'm confused what people mean by "stumping themself". Then again, I'm relatively new, so no wonder why I'm confused.
Rest of this is quality, +1.
Xonar or whoever you are, note how i asked him would he stump, or would he find it worthless to. I was not saying it's an automatic clear, i know that there is such thing as bussing. Hence why i'm asking him this question. I think you miss read my question as me being serious with the italicized segment.
Cell, i don't see how our trade could help, you're leading, which is something you do when you're town. FMPOV i am also town, us continue with this ends our lives early. If we have to waste a lynch on you, that just gives the opportunity for lumberjacks to kill a potentially good player on our side.
Relatively neutral.
If you're town, what do you have to hide.
Unvote: Vote GSF
So? Voting him will put him on the defensive and you'll never get a stance out of him.
Oh! Oh! Can I do it!? PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?
Then do it, Ryker.
the forced stumping thing is interesting and might actually work. (with not actually voting, just stumping)
You're late to the party on this one.
pfft.
SSBF, why in god's name are you reacting to that just now and with such general statements or "wut"s, even I know what redacted means.
Then enlighten us.
You are also complaining about "walls" where there are none. everybody (why pick cello on that anyway) is just multiquoting. you later even contradict yourself.
(what do you defien a "wall" and can you give example in this game)
you then proceed to vote based on what seems to be merely based on cello's first post. way to keep up with the game.
+1.
Unvote
Because Cello no longer really warrants a lynch. I still find your pushy style super annoying though
FoS: SSBF
I think I made this clear.
Vote: *The Jester*
where are you?
EWOP: sorry, I kinda effed up
Nothing. I just don't see much of a benefit in sharing in something we'll both talk/address/question in the thread filled with both scum and town. I rather speak to my partner, who I know is town. I'm just cautious of who I trust and whatnot. This was the same in Chaco's game where I was the ****** white mage. I had Ronike (who was town cop) town at the time and one of my powers was that I could make someone bulletproof. However, I was a bit scared to give it as there was a possibility that he could be scum.
Hm. I think you should post, but I don't think it's too incredibly scummy not to post, as I can understand you wanting to keep (for example) a case on someone secret until you're ready to present it and have talked it over with your partner.
It's just my personal preference. >>
Not really (IMO at least). I always thought that by voting/putting pressure on an inactive, you make them vote and get into the game.
Agreed.
@Brock
How is giving your logs a bad idea? Isnt it just the same exact thing as saying your opinion? What you are doing is basically withholding your opinion.
Im not dumb, Swords. Im not gonna follow him telling me to vote so its not really bad for him to do so.
Outlined it above.
@Cello
Ya Paprika really is reminding me of me. Im going to say that this is pretty much a null tell though, despite me being town previously. It really is a natural reaction for most the get confused and scared by your style.
How did you come up with an opinion on SSBF when he hadnt posted anything of substance yet?
@Most
I just plain and simple didnt pay attention to the thread until today. I've been sick and today I finally didnt go to school so I've had time to catch up.
Im going with the idea that putting people at L-1 and whatnot is a pretty bad idea for this game. If scum, feels like theyve been caught they can just lynch themselves at L-1 to get thier next kill. Town should be more eager to stump when under pressure so we can get more lynch/stumps in.
SSBF gets some town points from me for his naivety in dealing with Cello.
@Heatstroke
What are you trying to say with #81. I couldnt follow well.
@SSBF
What are you saying when you distinguish between Walls of text and long posts? I thought they were the same.
Read the rules as it is clear that you havent.
Want to see SSBF post on moe current events.
I would do more right now, but I've gotta go. Anyway, the_man looking good, Cello looking bad.
)
