Toon Link Inquiry Thread (Ask a question, get an answer)

[Blistering Speed]

Duuuddeess, Tink's my primary secondary now, you can expect posts of semi-utility from me soon!

At the moment my Tink is approximately 98% Z Air and Bomb spam, how am I doing?

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ Needs moar back air and nair. Moar rang and arrow cancels .

 

[Artmastercorey]

Hi I have two quick questions.

1.) Why is it that when I try to footstool an opponent who is off the stage we somehow switch places when I press x to jump on him? I go from being above him to being below him..

2.) How do you run onto a floating platform? I see Santi doing this a lot, I usually have to jump on a ledge, land...wait for the cool down and then run...but it seems Santi is jumping and immediately able to run when on the platform. How is this possible?

Thanks all in advance ! Appreciate the help

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Hi I have two quick questions.

1.) Why is it that when I try to footstool an opponent who is off the stage we somehow switch places when I press x to jump on him? I go from being above him to being below him..

2.) How do you run onto a floating platform? I see Santi doing this a lot, I usually have to jump on a ledge, land...wait for the cool down and then run...but it seems Santi is jumping and immediately able to run when on the platform. How is this possible?

Thanks all in advance ! Appreciate the help

1) he footstools you first?

2) he's santi

 

[Artmastercorey]

1) he footstools you first?

2) he's santi

..........O_o?

 

[Disfunkshunal]

idk about the first one. thats really wierd if/when it happens and i know i have never experienced it.

and santi can do anything

 

[darkpheonix]

Q: how might one master the ken kill? ive been trying to master it for weeks but it isnt working. its so annoying! pls answer.

 

[Artmastercorey]

idk about the first one. thats really wierd if/when it happens and i know i have never experienced it.

and santi can do anything

maybe i shouldve mentioned Santi if I knew i would get these kind of answers : (

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@ Art: Yeah the first one sounds like they use their double jump then quickly footstool you. Basicaly because you can footstool someone even after you have no more jumps left, they probably see you coming then spam jump, next thing you know, you got footstooled. As for stopping this from happening, they really have the advantage here because they can just spam jump but you have to jump at the right time. If you really want to foostool them, then as crazy as it might sound, you might want to jump off the ledge then quickly double jump, then DI directly over them, then spam Jump. This way even if they try to spam jump and get over you, you will get them first and they won't catch you by surprise. Even if you miss the footstool, Toon still has an amazing recovery and you shouldn't have to much trouble getting back, just don't be dumb and double jump out too far.

As for the second one, I think I know what your talking about and it's actually quite simple. Just smash Run as soon as you land and it cancels out the lag of landing. I think the timing is kind of like a tech so you'll have to practice for a few minutes to get it down. Hope this all helped.

 

[TLMSheikant]

darkphoenix- combos don exits in brawl.

 

[Artmastercorey]

@ Art: Yeah the first one sounds like they use their double jump then quickly footstool you. Basicaly because you can footstool someone even after you have no more jumps left, they probably see you coming then spam jump, next thing you know, you got footstooled. As for stopping this from happening, they really have the advantage here because they can just spam jump but you have to jump at the right time. If you really want to foostool them, then as crazy as it might sound, you might want to jump off the ledge then quickly double jump, then DI directly over them, then spam Jump. This way even if they try to spam jump and get over you, you will get them first and they won't catch you by surprise. Even if you miss the footstool, Toon still has an amazing recovery and you shouldn't have to much trouble getting back, just don't be dumb and double jump out too far.

As for the second one, I think I know what your talking about and it's actually quite simple. Just smash Run as soon as you land and it cancels out the lag of landing. I think the timing is kind of like a tech so you'll have to practice for a few minutes to get it down. Hope this all helped.

Thanks Fox you were very helpful! Really glad for people like yourself....and just to clearify even more what I mean, for future reference i ment

a.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCRQK-f478
how he footstool while below at 1:04


b.)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBXks0wxu2k&NR=1
How he sorta like... wavelands on the plateform instantly....at 2:10
I think I saw him do this somewhere else too where the stage doesnt tilt but Im not sure.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah I thought so. The first one you can see he just walks off the ledge so he still has his double jump and the second one, he's just SH'd then Hit Left at the correct time.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

maybe i shouldve mentioned Santi if I knew i would get these kind of answers : (

i answered the first one and fox said the same thing but with more words but w/e

the second i didnt know what to say but run when you land on the platform and i thought you'd take that as not much help but i couldnt think of a way to put it more simpler

 

[earla]

how to DI best with toon link?
i've been trying to momentum cancel with bair fastfall.

how to go under rocks on pirate ship?

what are the most important techniques to have down first as toon link?

what are toon links worst matchups and how to take them on best?

what are some general things about toon link to play the character well.

cheers

 

[TLMSheikant]

earla-
1) Horizontal- DI up, back air then jump.
Vertical- DI to the side, back air then fast fall ASAP.

2) Dair

3) JC bomb throws, Invincibomb, Short hop double arrow, arrow cancelling and spacing.

4)Falco, metaknight, marth.

5) Camp to make them approach and lure mistakes and punish them.

Good luck.

 

[Sosuke]

Marth isn't really that bad for TL.
I'm starting to think it might be even.

 

[Artmastercorey]

Yeah I thought so. The first one you can see he just walks off the ledge so he still has his double jump and the second one, he's just SH'd then Hit Left at the correct time.

hmm i cant seem to short hop onto any platform, maybe im not doing it right then

 

[VietGeek]

Marth isn't really that bad for TL.
I'm starting to think it might be even.

So you fought Bardull, Junk, BoA, MikeHaze, one of them?

You need more videos. <_<

 

[Sosuke]

I fought Junk and mikeHAZE.

Just friendlies. >_>
I still think its almost even.

 

[oOJaseOo]

A couple of marth mains i know say its even but it rlly depends on the toons killin skillz

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

hmm i cant seem to short hop onto any platform, maybe im not doing it right then

You don't Need to SH on to a platform, I was just telling you what He did in the vid you showed me. He Just SH'd and landed perfectly on the platform at the peak of his jump, then hit Left.

 

[SuSa]

A couple of marth mains i know say its even but it rlly depends on the toons killin skillz

And in a matchup, both players should be of equal skill level.

If the TL has to be much better then the Marth to win, its nowhere near an even matchup.

"1) Horizontal- DI up, back air then jump.
Vertical- DI to the side, back air then fast fall ASAP."

Wrong..Snake's Utilt, tell me how to DI that. It hits vertical, yet it matters whether I press left or right for my DI. Give a scenario of "I'd die sooner if I DI'd x direction" and "I'd live longer if I had DI'd y direction".

However for the most part, your explanation would be somewhat correct.

 

[TheJerm]

I think TL Marth is in TL's favor. We throw crap and run, not too much they can do. We can also dwn smash gimp them pretty easily, cause of marths recovery.

@Susa- how would you tell who's the better player? Only marth I've lost to is MikeHaze.. and I had a really good lead on last stock, just mad a dumb mistake causing death =x. But how would we know who's actually a better player out of me and MikeHAZE?

 

[Sosuke]

>________________________________________>

I-


<___________<

*shuts up and leaves*

 

[SuSa]

I think TL Marth is in TL's favor. We throw crap and run, not too much they can do. We can also dwn smash gimp them pretty easily, cause of marths recovery.

@Susa- how would you tell who's the better player? Only marth I've lost to is MikeHaze.. and I had a really good lead on last stock, just mad a dumb mistake causing death =x. But how would we know who's actually a better player out of me and MikeHAZE?

1. Any of the Marth's you've faced know of spacing? Or powershielding?

2. How do you KO if you're just spamming projectiles the entire time?

3. Judging the better player is really hard. It's normally obvious. If you're 3 stocking the other player consistently while messing around (read: sandbagging) chances are you are the better player. Unless they are also sandbagging.

Generally I'd say if you can have (let's just say 100 matches for arguments sakes) and you win 45-55 of them (roughly 50%) then you are of equal skill, assuming the matchup is 50:50.

It gets really messy with that "test" of player skill for matchups that are like... 80:20 (Samus vs Ganon) where the worse player may just be winning because they have an extreme advantage. If the Ganon won more then even just 40 matches out of 100, I'd say the Ganon is the better player, as the Ganon should only be winning 20~ matches, the Samus is poor enough to be making enough mistakes for the Ganon to win twice that amount.

But that's also in my personal opinion and how I base skill. Some people say its pretty obvious who's the better player, while others don't even believe in skill (lol? Obviously I have more skill then a 3 year old who's never played the game before....)

 

[TheJerm]

Haha, Yes, they do. We should bring mikehaze over here and talk about the match up. Also, I didnt play junk, but I was watching santi and he beat junk. I've played many marths in tournament, some good, some not so great. A marth player here in texas, Broly, is really good, and I beat him. Its not just the spam that wins, if we use our sword correctly, we can fight them kinda close also. But only a couple of hits at max. For kills, I usually gimp. Fairs on the ledge and stuff like that. If I really wanted to be lame and hardcore spam, then eventually, an out of shield bair would kill.

 

[SuSa]

I was just laughing at the run around and spam part thats all.... TL can spam, but not so fast as to make it impossible to shield. Just annoying to shield and be offensive....

I'd say 55:45 Marth, but I don't know the matchup nearly enough to say such a thing.....I've only played a handful of decent Marths as TL, and I've played even fewer TL's with my Marth. (at least, any TL's worth considering as ANYWHERE near my level... most of the TL's I faced were novice at best; so not taken into my consideration)


Ya, I said online... so what? As I'm the own judge of my online, there's some matches I won't even consider taking my judgement from online matches. Then there's those nice, smooth running, little (but some as always) input lag matches that feel as close to offline as possible. 99% of my viewpoints and such come from online play, and most people agree somewhat with what I have to say about matchups... so I'm doing something right...

 

[Steel]

just saying like

99% of marths do this match wrong

 

[Sosuke]

Steel should come to CA and play me so we can settle this? <3

 

[Steel]

no u com over here

 

[TheJerm]

Yea, I understand what you mean, but I'm going based off my own exp. I think if the TL knows what to do, and the marth knows what to do, it's slighty in TL's favor. I actually know the match up really well. Its only of my favorite match ups. Even though I only play TL in tournament, and MM's, I have a really good marth. I actually played marth before TL.. cause I was too lazy to unlock him xD. So I know the extent of marths power.

 

[Sosuke]

Fine I will

So I know the extent of marths power.

I don't think you do.



Killing is actually a ***** for both character in this match up, so for the TLs its kinda like "Yes!".
Its a big part of this match up imo.

 

[Steel]

i don't understand how it could possibly be in his favor. In this match Marth is supposed to keep on TL without giving him any space and corner him. i don't get what tink can do besides run away, he can't reach. his sword isn't long enough. i can think of retreating zair as a decent option , but if he's under constant pressure when marth is at tipper range he has very limited options.

 

[TheJerm]

Thats the good thing about perfect shielding being so easy in this game. If the marth is dashing towards us, they will prlly forward B. Thats when you shield until the last hit. They could try and mix it up on you, with grabbing afterward the first dancing blade hit, and thats pretty hard to guess. But usually they wont. Also, you could make it a guessing game and just nair out of shield. Also, full hops with bombs, and landing with invinci bombs would help alot. The main problem is his fair. Well, for me it is. Thats when zair comes into play. Usually I use bomb to zair, while retreating, so,
1. they shield everything, but thats when we juggle the bomb off their shield with different arials
2. They get hit by the zair and bomb, and we follow up
3. They roll behind us and begin to pressure us again.
lol, actually, there's plenty of options in that situation that I dont feel like explaining xD..
But if TL gets Marth behind him, we are pretty safe if we mix it up properly and space extremely well.

 

[Steel]

Marth never, EVER should approach with a dancing blade. It's not an approach move it's a punishing move.

The only thing to disrupt Marth's zoning in this match is perfect shielding, yes. Nair OoS after a perfect shield fair would probably hit, ill give you that. But why are you mostly afraid of his fair when his dtilt is just as bad if not worse for tink? All he can do is run away from that.

But uh..

Standard high level play personal experience is all you're going off of.. not really worth debating.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you compare Marth's options to Tink's, Marth comes out on top. Marth is safer, with better moves overall and the mobility to deal with Tink's projectiles.

Done.

 

[TheJerm]

What else is their to go off of? If TL's are beating marths, then I dont think its in favor for marth. I've also played a marth who know the TL match up almost as well as dojo.

 

[Steel]

becuase a lot of marth's are garbage

refer to emblem lord's post

 

[Emblem Lord]

The problem here Jerm is that...you are basically bullying WEAKER players and basing your match-up knowledge of of that.

You need to fight someone on your level on a consistent basis.

Also....what TL's are beating Marth's consistently that are close in skill consistently?

 

[TheJerm]

I'm not convinced after one marth's post. #15 in texas, Dphat, mains marth. And when he gets me in tournament, he has to play MK. I'm he knows the TL match up better than most people. Since he's played me and santi frequently.

Emblem: Hmm, I didnt play junk.. but I think he's known as being good. Mikehaze knows how TL can fight marth. And even though I havnt played roys marth in a while, I think I can hold my own against him. Question to you, what marths are beating TL's?