The same effect can be accomplished with a SH>bombpull>Quick-bomb-drop (where the bomb is z-released high enough so that it explodes and does not lie on the ground)>BCD. Towards the end of the video I had an example of the 1 Short-hopped version but in that one, there were 'flames' on teh opponent. The true, non-flame version can be done (however, the timing is very narrow).
A more practical version of the short-hop version is doing the same thing SH>bombpull>quickbombdrop> but then pivot the dsmash. The pivoting takes the narrow window off of pulling the true non-flame BCD on because the bomb is behind you and the opponent should not get hit by the bomb as easily. It sort of integrates with RAR's very well, that or surprise GTFO situtuations when TL is retreating from an advancing opponent. Those are when you DONT have a bomb already in hand. If the TL already does have a bomb, the TL could perform the move on the fly. I'll be sure to get some frame information on those setups (I need to ask some1 with hacking software tho... anyone willing to help me?).
Elsewhere within tactical discussion just recently, there is one report/rumor that the killing cancelled dsmash could be acheived through sheer pivot sliding the downsmash. Technically, that could be the fastest option if it is confirmed (going to test).
Ok, actually those are all separate versions of the technique since the all have unique counters from the opponent's prospective (unless you're MK, I think he can tornado through them all), so frame data the fastest way you can pull each of them off.
Also, ledgehopped version is probably gonna be important, frame data that.
I think u-smash could be cancelled and you could follow up with f-air, n-air, or even a killing u-air if you DI the bomb cancel blast towards your opponent. Technically that feat has been performed by TL's a lot of times already, but mostly as a 'when it happens' thing--doing it deliberately may be a new approach in killing (WTF... TL can kill better? lol) if the frame advantage calculations work out. Shield pressure could be consciously exploited more also, since bombs bounce off oppenents' sheilds anyway you could mix in a falling z-air to whittle more shield down, throw in some jab cancels>charging smash of choice and either hit the opponent with following mindgames, or cripple their shield before the bomb cancels your charge/smash attack safely. The result could be even better if you could space the bomb so that it hits both you and your opponent (safer) when it cancels your attack.
Interesting thoughts and take on the technique and great insight!
Yes, that's the ticket, if you can get combos off are the first thing to consider.
But from there... what about setting up guessing game? Breaking shields? Punishing spotdodges?
There are a lot of possibilities for how to use this technique.
Also, more general insight for the tech itself, also go for it onstage at non-kill locations, it can set up techchasing (you'll probably be able to at least get an arrow off, possibly more). Also if you get them off-stage, you can up for edguarding or at least harass them as they come back if there's no way you can do that.
Also, look to see if there's a "top damage racker version", in other words, one that you get the entire downsmash and then the bomb, and all hits the opponent, from there, you might be able to follow-up.
And thanks, I'm a Marth main, we're all stat freaks, so when other people see a gimmicky technique, we see implications that might be metagame-changing.
I've been blowing myself up to cancel moves. >_>
I could pull out a list of what you can do by doing it and all the combos that can be done.
Yes, do it.
Frame data them to make sure they're legit too.
I'm hearing a lot of people talking about stalling in the air, for example, with Mario and Marth's Side-B. True, it can stall them in the air for more time, and should be helpful to them, but TL has a plan for that. This is from Fox is Openly Deceptive's guide:
Ledge Re-Grab
How to Perform: Grab onto a ledge, Hit Backwards then Z twice really quickly.
Effect: Toon will regain his Invincibility frames really quickly. He will let go of the edge, Zair then snap to the ledge.
In theory, even if you stall, there's nothing stopping us from regaining our invincibility frames. It takes like .25 seconds to perform, and we can do it 3 times.
You gotta factor in human reaction time in however (about 8 frames at the top of the metagame), frame data it, but I'm pretty sure Mario and Marth can up-b during the vulnerability frames on the chain regrab on reaction.
At the very least they can make it a guessing game, which puts them in vulnerable.