Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[July]

@T-Block: Ignore my question to you about scum picks, you literally just answered it. Can explain your read on Ran a bit more?

 

[T-block]

There were several instances where I felt his posts (questions, attacks, or aggression) were not genuine, as if he were posting for the sake of posting and seeming active. I know there are are at least three points where I felt that. I've never played with Ran before, but I've heard stories, and I'm sure someone is going to come in and defend him with meta, but I can't ignore it anymore.

I'll bring stuff up when I'm caught up, which might be a while lol

 

[Reyth]

@July: Sorry if this is a repetitive question but besides Grey, who are your top scum suspects? Anyone besides a lurker?

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Reyth
If you're at work I can understand why you don't want to take the time to put together a long answer post ATM, just please try to get to them sometime soon.

 

[Reyth]

@July: By default your severe push on Grey means you think he is fake claimng??

 

[ranmaru]

Nich I do think Reyth does have the time.

 

[Reyth]

Its hard for me to wrap my head around those questions because they are leading and I don't think that way and especially not about Nabe.

 

[Reyth]

Nich has a way with words I will tell you that.

 

[Nicholas1024]

At the least could you explain your town read on Nabe in as much detail as possible?

 

[Reyth]

Ok that I will do...

 

[ranmaru]

Nabe, who are your scum picks? What did you think of Degray's claim, and his reads?

 

[July]

@July: Sorry if this is a repetitive question but besides Grey, who are your top scum suspects? Anyone besides a lurker?

My other two suspects outside of DeGrey are PLSD and T-Block. T-Block is a hard read to get because I only played with him once and he was obvtown the entire time, and like he said a couple times our reads lined up a lot in that game (I was indy lover that game ). I also really felt like his argument with Nich could have been T v. T, but since then I just haven't felt like T-Block has been pushing as hard or really digging in and providing content. I don't necessarily have an issue with his reads, but his reasoning isn't there. I find all of his suspicions to be rather weak and his #438 still bothers me because I feel like there is content there but not GOOD content.


Right now I'm null on SK but they are starting to garner my attention by how very little they have stood out. I noticed a couple points where Kat agreed to me and of course Soup threatening to replace out, and I haven't paid much attention to them because I generally agree with their reads. I want more content from them.

@July: By default your severe push on Grey means you think he is fake claimng??

His claim reminds me a lot of Kuz's claim in Celebrity mafia:

Okay then

Katie Couric, Town Informed Journalist

The details of my PR are that I received mod confirmed info at the beginning of the game but otherwise am a VT.

I believe it may be a role Tiger made up.

Ahhh figured as much. Why didnt you just say that earlier, things are making sense now I think.

Okay here goes.

I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND WAS PLAYING YOU THE WHOLE TIME


















kidding.

I was given two pieces of information at the beginning of the game from the mod.

1. I was told that Tiger Woods is "seducing" players and that he is able to talk with his targets during the night phase (the info I received did not make it seem like it was an indefinite masonry but rather one night shots), but I am not sure.

and

2. Swiss is a male character.

I crumbed knowing this several times by replacing other vocab in my sentences with "seduce" in an attempt to get seduced (I was not). I will find these if you want.

I immediately jumped to conclusions that Swiss was Tiger Woods, as I thought all the other characters are females. However, during last Night's flavor there is a male member of the mafia talking to a female one, so I realized that Swiss was not the only Male character in the game. This is why I am now less sure of his alignment.

Now we get into assumptions

From the crumbs I picked up (from other players), I am GUESSING N1 Swiss targeted July and he targeted Axel N2 as they both seem to feel confident about his alignment.

From what Axel is saying it does in fact look like Swiss is Tiger.

Thats what I know.

Your turn.

This was a lot of information at the time and everything checked out. Except for the fact that Kuz fabricated the role, and was actually scum and used a mixture of vague information and information gained from scum prs to screw with us.

I am still extremely salty about this game

DeGrey's "mod confirmed knowledge" is extraordinary vague and his restriction is pretty much unprovable because he's not going to willingly stay off the main lynch toDay and take punishment to prove it. It's also very easy to fake, and there's scum motivation behind it too: he can wagon hop all he wants to find the "successful lynch" and not take responsibility for being on a wagon.

It's definitely not too bizarre to be a safe/fake claim.

 

[July]

IMPORTANT NOTE TO EVERYONE

Now that Nabe's posted his response (and I've responded in turn to that) I want other people to comment on the case against him. If you disagree with the caseand think Nabe is town, I have two questions for you (well, technically it's three questions).

1): Where does Nabe post scumreads without being requested, with reasoning? (After all, one would expect every townie at some point to go "I think X is scum, and here's why.") The only examples I found on my ISO are his case on myself and perhaps his slight push on SK.

2): Would you agree with the assessment that Nabe's play has been safe? If not, please show what exactly he's done that's been remotely risky. If so, what town motivation is there behind ultra-safe play?

1) I've seen him give opinions on KK in his #800, and I feel like after he asked me a significant amount of questions about my reads and stances he provided a read on me as well. I think that he has been more subtle with providing his reads but he's been doing a lot of scumhunting by asking questions to get to those reads.

2) I would agree that Nabe hasn't taken any stances that are way outside town opinion, but this early in the game I think it's hard to say someone is playing too safe, I just can't tell if that true or if his reads are genuine and independent of majority influence. I don't think he's playing "ultra-safe" because he has gone out of his way to ask questions and has made connections with pretty much everyone on the player list.

 

[Reyth]

I like Nabe because <3:

1) Sincere early scum hunting of SK
2) Sincere ongoing wagon query on Nich with further scum hunting of SK
3) Excellent query of Nich concerning SK and their hydra
4) Excellent catch on pointing out that both .jpg and Nich fencesat their votes
5) Nice catch on SK scum reaching on T-Block
6) Nice catch on Swiss 3 town references for Nich in one post
7) Nice catch on SK's analysis post missing reads for himself and Zen

Sincere scum hunting all game long.

 

[Reyth]

@July: I kind of beg to differ on the Tiger Woods example (at least slightly) because Tiger Woods is a major golf figure whereas Hermoine to my mind is kind of a remote character don't you think?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And if you don't want to explain things then that's fine. If you want to ignore me that's fine. But you can't honestly be ignorant of how scummy your behavior has been so far or how little you have scumhunted and then think that you can just ignore it. I will continue to push you until one of us is dead.

Please don't insinuate that I'm too dumb to see my own play. I am very conscious that it is there. I am also very conscious that you are insane if you think I'm scummy enough to be lynched over others in this game right now. The last line of this quote is exactly the reason you're scum.

I happen to know for a fact that I am scummy. I also know that I am not scummy enough to be lynched. What do you think of that PLSD?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Sorry, wrong goddamn account. I've been switching a lot today because I've had to post outside DGames.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Response to Nich (1042)

Spoiler

I basically mean a statement. Something related to this game that isn't a question. It's surprisingly uncommon from your playerslot's early game play.

I really can't figure out how this is supposed to be scummy. What purpose does an offhand statement serve for you that my posts haven't?

Anyway, I'd like to call your bluff. I want to see the following from you in quotes.

1)Places where you've given scumreads without being asked for them. (In the ISO, I would occasionally find one here or there, but it was quite uncommon.)
2)Places where you've given reasons for your scumreads and tried to get them lynched. (Aside from perhaps a minor push on SK and your case on me, there aren't any instances of this. AT ALL.)

There's no bluff to call. You're accusing me of not posting my reads in their entirety before I was asked for them and for a couple, before I had formed them. You're right in that accusation. It just isn't scummy. As I've said, my reads are out, it's over with.

As for lynching scumreads, I missed a couple days, then I came back with hundreds of posts to read. I can't chase scumreads I didn't have in early game, and I can't chase reads when I'm not here. But my intent in questioning my reads when I was here prior to the activity boom is clear.

It's not provable either way, and you're quite correct, your motive is made plain by your posts. However, I don't see you actually use the answers to your questions in any way. The obvious counterpoint to this is that you use them in your scumreads, however because you never post any motivation for said scumreads, that is also unprovable, and I think you're bluffing.

You're a confusing person. How can you say that the motive I suggest is made plain by my posts, and then say you don't see me using the answers to my questions? Your first sentence here is either false, or it's you conceding the point in full.

But it's moot anyway. Ask me about my reads if you're curious. When other people have, I've told them my reads and the reasoning behind them.

Also, about the voicing your reads on every player, yes you have. The trick is that you've been asked for them. I want quotes where you've posted scumreads WITHOUT being asked of them, info you've volunteered of your own free will.

Again, I don't see how this is scummy. Many players hold onto reads intentionally. I didn't even do that.

Actually, you said yourself that you post a lot of questions as scum. (The quote in question is referred to in the big case post.)

Yes. Which has nothing to do with what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that scumNabe needs to break free of his super-scummy random questions by making a case on a weak link. I'm suggesting that ScumNabe would continue to stick it out in the funk, ask questions, and otherwise lurk.

I post questions as town and as scum. It's not scummy and it's not a tactic I take intentionally as scum.

Actually, it was your case on me that led to this. I couldn't understand how the one new point Reyth had raised had changed your mind so dramatically.

It's a scumslip. That's not a point, it's a reason in full to think someone is scum.

During said ISO, I noticed that although you asked tons of questions, I could never actually figure out who you thought was scum and why.

It's almost as if I were still forming reads or something.

Then I noticed that everything you did was quite safe, basically nothing you did could even be argued with, let alone used to build a (normal) case.

Okay. Not my intent.

Regarding town vs scum motivation, I think I've displayed the reasoning for the scum motivation. You claim that you used those questions for their answers. Well, since I'm not a mind reader, so I have no clue how those answers benefitted your reads, and you never volunteered that information.

Which... isn't scummy. Ask and you shall receive. Everyone else was content after my catch-up to ask questions of me, and got quick, open responses. You went directly to accusing me of holding back my reads.

Additionally, you seemed more or less content (aside from your case on me) to let the game take its course, as you posted little in the way of scumreads (only when asked), and didn't push said scumreads.

I was entirely cool with letting the game take its course. Town can't have every player trying to play leader in every game, and I had nothing important to argue. Now I do.

This can't be proven either way. I don't have any evidence that you didn't just read up, see the scumslip, and thus vote. However, you don't have any evidence that it DID happen that way.

That's entirely my point. You looked at what should be circumstantial evidence and only saw scum motivation in it? Bull****.

Anyway, burden of proof is on you.

Also, aside from your vote on me, you haven't mentioned any major read changes from reading half the game. What's your townie explanation for this? The scum explanation is obvious, you just needed some token case to look active and townie, then you could go back to your safe questions.

You seem to be thinking my reads should flop from a D1 read. Why can't a series of posts from a player strengthen a read that's already there, or sharpen it from a lean to a full read, or sharpen a null to a lean? Are there some reads you think I'm wrong on?

No, I've looked, and scum-Nabe fits the pieces better.

No, you simply haven't looked from that perspective, which is inherently obvious in your posting of the case and how you went directly on the offensive after I voted you. As you said, you thought my vote for you was scummy. After that, it's obvious you did a PBP with that assumption in hand.

Why haven't you posted scumreads without anyone asking you?

Why haven't you pushed a single scumread for a lynch aside from me?

These are both explained above.

Why is it that it's impossible to determine your stance on people without actually asking you?

It's not impossible at all, since everything with me is already out in the open.

I couldn't answer these questions with Nabe-town.

I had a pretty easy time of it, myself.

Meta is an important thing to take into account with any read, if you have some. So, let me ask you... how does Reyth offering a no-meta read on me suddenly invalidate your meta on me?

As scum it's just a convenient way to hop my wagon. What's the town view on this, Nabe?

Meta is only important until someone knows about it. You said yourself you've tried not to tunnel as town, because you know you do it. The opposite can be true of your scum game, you know your town meta and play to it. Because of your acknowledgement of your town meta, it's effectively useless. Reyth made that black and white.

Well, I've proven that everything you've done is safe, and there's a definite scum motive for playing that way. Being safe should not be a townie's priority, yet it certainly seems like one of your priorities...

I don't have safe play as a priority. You've shown that my play is safe though, which seems to be a fair evaluation.[/quote]

@1043, Asdioh means that he and X1 share a mutual town read on me.

 

[Reyth]

Please don't insinuate that I'm too dumb to see my own play. I am very conscious that it is there. I am also very conscious that you are insane if you think I'm scummy enough to be lynched over others in this game right now. The last line of this quote is exactly the reason you're scum.

I happen to know for a fact that I am scummy. I also know that I am not scummy enough to be lynched. What do you think of that PLSD?

Plz repost in the hydra

 

[ranmaru]

Reyth, why haven't you mentioned others not posting in their hydras?

 

[Reyth]

Because they reposted?

 

[ranmaru]

OH, ok fair enough. I misread that as 'plz post in the hydra'. Kk.

 

[Reyth]

How come sometimes new posts will pop up automatically and sometimes they don't and I have to refresh the page? Is there like a "java login link" or something?

 

[ranmaru]

I think that's the Live topic and it goes to the next page or something.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ran, please stop posting in black.

 

[Reyth]

Ya but it even happens when there isn't a next page...

@Nabe: I see his posts in powder blue.

 

[ranmaru]

OH SORRY. LOL.

Not mah fault, I thought I was in sky blue and it shows up in white.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The first two are where I found the difference in his opinion on votes to be most significant. At first he says that he isn't voting because he hasn't talked to Raziek about it, but the second one he says he will throw his vote on KK if KK gets half way to a lynch. Don't you think that would be something more important to talk to your partner about than putting a vote down on KK at the time of his post? And why still does he not feel the inclination to vote when he "gives up" on talking with his other head?

Him talking about voting KK looks to me like he's already given up on talking to Raz, or at least thinks that he can convince Raz it's the right choice. That's why it works for me as an in-between. Null there. I do agree that he should've voted after "giving up" as it were.

Nabe, thoughts on T-Block so far? Also can you give me your opinion on his #438.

He's about as tunnelly on Nich as one would expect from Nich himself. That he's not harping on the scumslip like I am suggests to me that he's town though, because as scum seeing me pushing it I think he'd grab onto that more thoroughly. I like his 438, his reasoning all seems fair and even, he doesn't take it as a chance to push a lynch but simply expresses all his reads.

 

[T-block]

Here are the quotes by Ran that are setting off flags for me. I don't understand the motivation behind these posts, which makes me think he is not genuinely interested in the answers to these questions (and judging from the questions, how could he be?). When I read these posts, I read them as someone trying to seem townie:

@July:

I don't see why you should ask Degrey the same question I asked him. I do agree with you repeating about not answering questions to Tblock, but I can handle the attacks on me. I also agree that Degrey hasn't scumhunted much per say.

@July:

1. He hasn't responded to me yet, so there was no need to ask him unless he has ignored my question. If he hasn't responded, then if you were still interested then it wouldn't bother me to ask him (and it'd help too). It's not necessary at this point.

Why does he make such a big deal about July asking DG the same question? I believe he was explicitly asked why it mattered, and he never replied.

Ok. What do you think of Zen?

He asks this to PLSD when he pops in here, even after PLSD states that he hasn't read the thread. Why is he asking PLSD a broad question that would require having read the whole thread, and why is he asking it about Zen, who has done nothing?

4. Tblock: So, what do you care of who I ask PL?

I confront him about this, and this is his response -_-

Obviously not.

Also not liking Tblock getting in here and leaving multiple times. Thoughts on that?

And then he gets on my case for jumping in and out of the thread. After I explain why, he still says it's scummy behaviour. This one isn't quite as bad, and the fact that I was annoyed at how pushy he was might have affected my thoughts here. This is not so much a case of not being genuine as it is a case of being overly aggressive.

 

[T-block]

@Ryker, can you elaborate on your town Reyth read please?

 

[July]

@July: I kind of beg to differ on the Tiger Woods example (at least slightly) because Tiger Woods is a major golf figure whereas Hermoine to my mind is kind of a remote character don't you think?

Well Tiger Woods was information we knew from the start, Katie Couric was Kuz's role that was completely fabricated. It made sense considering some of the other characters were Sarah Palin and such, but no matter what it provided enough information to work and not get him busted as a fake claim.

Hermoine is a main character in Harry Potter which is not only well known but it's been literally everywhere since seven part two hit theatres, its not a remote character.

Please don't insinuate that I'm too dumb to see my own play. I am very conscious that it is there. I am also very conscious that you are insane if you think I'm scummy enough to be lynched over others in this game right now. The last line of this quote is exactly the reason you're scum.

I happen to know for a fact that I am scummy. I also know that I am not scummy enough to be lynched. What do you think of that PLSD?

Well you suggest that KK or myself should be lynched over you when I know I'm town and KK is a solid town read for me, so I sure as hell trust my reads over your scum picks. And the fact that you "know" that you are not scummy enough to be lynched over others in this game, that you think you can slide by with bs reads and bs scumhunting and still not deserve to be lynched for it, well that's just one of the many reasons you are scum.

 

[Reyth]

@July: Re: T-Blocks 1149 can you describe how you read a scummy Ran asking questions?

 

[ranmaru]

I like Nabe because <3:

1) Sincere early scum hunting of SK
2) Sincere ongoing wagon query on Nich with further scum hunting of SK
3) Excellent query of Nich concerning SK and their hydra
4) Excellent catch on pointing out that both .jpg and Nich fencesat their votes
5) Nice catch on SK scum reaching on T-Block
6) Nice catch on Swiss 3 town references for Nich in one post
7) Nice catch on SK's analysis post missing reads for himself and Zen

Sincere scum hunting all game long.

Reyth, how does this change your read on Jpg?

 

[ranmaru]

@Tblock:

1. I have already explained why I didn't like her repeating a question I have asked. It seemed fake. She just states she doesn't care and acts stubborn.

2. I think you get the idea. :D

3. My 'aggressiveness' isn't good for basing alignment, so try again.

 

[ranmaru]

GOD I HATE YOU BACK SPACE BUTTON

CApS

 

[ranmaru]

There were several instances where I felt his posts (questions, attacks, or aggression) were not genuine, as if he were posting for the sake of posting and seeming active. I know there are are at least three points where I felt that. I've never played with Ran before, but I've heard stories, and I'm sure someone is going to come in and defend him with meta, but I can't ignore it anymore.

I'll bring stuff up when I'm caught up, which might be a while lol

Expand on this. How does this affect your read on me?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Hermione claim fits the flavour, obviously. Playwise, that's the type of role you'd claim early especially with the mod info. Quite probably real. His manner feels town enough, he admits to his faults by saying he'll deliver a scum list in his next post.

Reads and reasoning are in line with mine. Grey, do you not agree on the Nich scumslip?

Reyth said he had a voting block with you and VG.jpg and wanted to add TB to it.

Oh.


1060 strengthens Reythtown read, good motivation although I don't agree on the reasoning.

 

[Reyth]

Reyth, how does this change your read on Jpg?

In taking his overall read with those two small things, he still remains strongly town for me.

 

[ranmaru]

I like .jpg because <3:

1) He scum hunted early (even during N0)
2) He chose correctly on T-Block & Nich (even if sheeping and fencesat)
3) He discovered hidden arcane knowledge about Nabe-Nich-SK that revealed a super-slick scum hunting mindset
4) Proper response to the July unvote
5) Proper response to the Swiss entry post
6) Correct read on Grey for more content
7) Correct read on the cases against T-Block
8) Correct Swiss town read
9) Correct Reyth town read

And nothing since then to demonstrate anything to the contrary.

That was not a proper response.

 

[Reyth]

It sure was. He called it as a good catch on your part and he was right.