Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
not only does item toss animation really hurt a lot of the cast with how they play against diddy but something that compouds the issue is the fact the some characters item grab ranges are abysmal. see my pic for comparisons
This is by wavedashing directly down or towards the banana right?
I assume the "Up B" was intended to be "down b". For those who are curious, most Zard's agreed that glide braking wasn't desirable. The problem they had was it made certain ledge tricks, glair to finish combos, and a few other things not work because of the implementation of removing it. They added like a 6 frame, non aim-able startup that transitioned Zard from his current momentum to moving forward, but the "startup" affected the aforementioned things.
Yeah, he does. Ledge jump BBomb can get you to center stage on small to mid-size stages.
So jump into people's shield with most awkward "short hop" then missile -> crawl.
This is stickied on top of the main forum for PM as "PM 3.5 Stats List (Still WIP)": http://smashboards.com/threads/pm-3-5-stats-list-still-wip-wavedash-ranks-added.335019/
It's one of many things that makes Ganon's life terrible, until he hits Samus into the air anyway.
Should be perfectly possible, just spacing logic. Coming down with a bomb on shield is actually a very good mix-up, before and after the bomb hits both players have a multitude of options and it's a pretty deep guessing game. Nice way not to get shield grabbed anyway.
XYK does this all the time out of a wave land and then crawls and it is amazing (and janky) movement.
It's really good for his wavescuttle, yes.
To be fair, Fox can Waveshine Bowser as long as bowser doesn't crouch for more than 7 frames. On frame 8 of Bowser's crouch is when the crawl armor is added on to normal cc (though it is sub light armor to compensate and doesn't happen instantly like cc does). Both shine itself and dair beats normal crouch cancel reduction stuff (duh, 0 degree angles and meteors always do this), but the crouch armor does beat both. So unless bowser is full crouching for a bit, you can still get things started with shine.
To both Prem and you, Debug is a thing for a reason. You don't even need to have friends! Just a spare controller and a little bit of juggling and bam! You can test anything out, frame by frame, to make sure what you are getting on cpu's is actually legit. I long for some 20XX Hack Pack features to come as well (the frame counter looks glorious), but even just good 'ol debug is good enough for me.
I exagerrated upthrow a lot but basically what I meant is most of what I do in that matchup when im approaching is drill grab into upthrow because the usual bowser loses to the z button idea. I know upthrow doesn't always guarantee a followup through enough experience but there are definitely some percents where you can uptilt and just combo him from there. I understand the camping aspect but I only play that matchup in friendlies so I would never laser camp.
Um, from that little testing I did I am not seeing that happen (the up tilt thing). Bowser was way too high for up tilt to ever connect, even at 0 (even though you only have 1 frame...). DI should completely ruin it even if it does work.
I kind of touched on it, but like Bazkip said, frame 5 for armor and hitbox. At 25 percent, assuming all frame perfect inputs even, Fox is 2 frames short of hitting before the armor + hitbox of nair come out. And the armor should definitely work through second hit uair if it comes to that, works till 57 percent (prehit). And again, from the looks of it when I tested it, bowser should be able to fast fall and catch a Fox trying to stay grounded and up tilt. Mix in DI and this doesn't seem overly oppresive for Bowser at all. Especially when you consider that other characters are getting guarenteed crazy damage and fox is forced to play a guessing game.
What goes up must come down. Sure, fox technically has no guaranteed followups after uthrowing Bowser, but it's more than a bit tricky to land safely, and a Bowser without a doublejump is pretty much straight up dead in that matchup.
Frost | Odds
Fox can force bowser to approach and lose. Thats the match up for any fox that knows what they are doing. Evade bowser and spam lasers and win the bait.
