Tier List Speculation

[Deleted member]

Private Joker - Brown, I want to see your list.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'd argue the same for preemptively placing veterans above new characters under the assumption that the new characters don't have what it takes.

My list and opinions of characters are malleable, and over 2.1 a lot of characters shifted quite dramatically. Just don't jump the gun and think this is some stubborn or adamant list that's going to remain like this forever.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Might as well put my thoughts on the tier list in here as well

Very Likely to Win Tournaments Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Ike
4. Sonic
5. Lucario

Likely to win tournaments tier
6. Marth
7. Falcon
8. Ganon
9. Pit
10.Peach
11. Diddy Kong
12. Sheik
13. Puff

Probably Can Win Tournaments Tier
14. Charizard
15. Bowser
16. Ivysaur
17. Snake
18. Zelda
19. ZSS
20. Squirtle
21. Wario

Unlikely to Win Tournaments Tier
22. Donkey Kong
23. Luigi
24. ROB
25. Mario
26. Pikachu
27. Wolf
28. Link
29. Toon Link

Highly Unlikely to win Tournaments Tier
30. Ness
31. Lucas
32. King Dedede
33. Mr. Game & Watch

 

[Archangel]

How Marth and Peach compare now has nothing to do with their overall match-ups and odds of winning a tournament. The issue everyone takes with you is simply that for all of her Buffs Peach gained alot of difficult matches some of which Marth does better in or even dominates. you seem to put melee characters in place as if it's still melee, then for characters like Marth and Falcon you seem to realize there are new characters and you put them all above them as if you are calculating different lists at the same time. I like the general idea of your list, I think Fox, Falco, Shielda is correct but everything else is up for debate, somethings highly debatable.

To put it another way. As someone who main's Marth in melee and 2nd's him in this game....I'm 100% better than ZSS, Charizard, Toon link, Wolf, and Pikachu. Both overall and vs these characters he wins. Also, He consider he himself still goes about even with/possibly beats Peach, Spacies(slightly easier but still even), Mario, Zelda, Sheik(no dthrow and brawl shields combined with Marth buffs evens this match up), Link, Lucas(still free edgeguards),and Snake. The only real difficult match of all the ones you placed above Marth is DDD simply because he has good recovery and he wins the grab-range and general range game vs Marth and he's got projectiles. It's a tough fight for Marth. Other than that he at least is even with or beats everyone you placed above him...so how are they above him? He also does just as good or better again people placed above them or below them....so it doesn't make sense to place him there at all from my standpoint.

on another note..Ironically I agree with your placement of Pit for once. LOL

 

[V-K]

@Blackgold
LOL no character is unlikely to win a tournament, especially not Ness and King Dedede. Also Falcon is way too high on that list, he is just as bad as he was in Melee.

 

[Kink-Link5]

As a side note, I find it funny how Falcon and Ganon are always alongside one another no matter where they end up. It's just a coincidence in my list, but I wonder about others sometimes.

 

[Archangel]

@Blackgold
LOL no character is unlikely to win a tournament, especially not Ness and King Dedede. Also Falcon is way too high on that list, he is just as bad as he was in Melee.

There are good Falcon players over here. Falcon placed well in the biggest 2.1 tournament FC making top 8. I'm sure all of our current top Falcons in melee like s2j, Hax, Scar...etc are capable of winning a tournament.

With that said, I don't think he's 7th. I also think Mario and Pikachu should be up 1 section.

 

[V-K]

There are good Falcon players over here. Falcon placed well in the biggest 2.1 tournament FC making top 8. I'm sure all of our current top Falcons in melee like s2j, Hax, Scar...etc are capable of winning a tournament.

With that said, I don't think he's 7th. I also think Mario and Pikachu should be up 1 section.

I didn't mean he was one of the bad characters in Melee, I meant he has still the same issues that put him below Shiek, Fox and Falco. In PM though other characters (like DK and Ganon) have become much stronger while he is pretty much the same.

 

[hamyojo]

This thread is very, very silly.

Although I am interested in seeing a compilation of various tier lists from everyone all in the same place, maybe then y'all could some it up together into one big one.

Do one of those each week and it'll be kinda cool how the chars change over time.











Also it'll let me chose the chars people think are bad but are actually super good to play :3

 

[Deleted member]

Do one of those each week and it'll be kinda cool how the chars change over time.
Also it'll let me chose the chars people think are bad but are actually super good to play :3

I've made 4 averaged lists today. Once a week isn't dedication.
Main G&W then.

 

[felipe_9595]

IMO G&W is bottom tier, he is Melee G&W with a bigger shield, Lcancels on nair, Bair and Uair and a "better" up b, aside from that he is pretty much the same (Most of the other changes are pretty small, almost useless.)

For the record, his Melee Uair with Lcancel would be better than the current one.

EDIT: PMBR should try to imitate what SD Remix did with G&W, that G&W, without being broken, is sweet and really good.

 

[Arcalyth]

I think that everybody's tier list is silly.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

[collapse="Here's my List"][glow]Stier[/glow]1
2
[glow]Atier[/glow]3
4
[glow]Btier[/glow]5
6
[glow]Ctier[/glow]7
8
[/collapse]
Something like this I guess. I dunno, I'd certainly like to play some more before solidifying this, but I guess we all feel that way.

 

[DrinkingFood]

IMO G&W is bottom tier, he is Melee G&W with a bigger shield, Lcancels on nair, Bair and Uair and a "better" up b, aside from that he is pretty much the same (Most of the other changes are pretty small, almost useless.)

For the record, his Melee Uair with Lcancel would be better than the current one.

EDIT: PMBR should try to imitate what SD Remix did with G&W, that G&W, without being broken, is sweet and really good.

Erm you forgot his most important buff, the bacon land-cancel...

 

[Deleted member]

Now with 8 lists averaged!
[Collapse="Demo 2.5 Averages(outliers excluded)"]

[/collapse]
[Collapse="Demo 2.5 Averages"]

[/collapse]
Which list does everybody like better?

 

[Luco]

Hey look Lucas is next to Pikachu!

Like he almost is in the Japanese brawl TL. :O

What happened with Ness?? @.@ Does he still have GR issues or something?

/doesn't play project M but is interested in this

 

[Deleted member]

/doesn't play project M but is interested in this

You should play! :D

 

[#HBC | Joker]

No he's just Ness. Being in the bottom isn't really even that bad, in this game. The bottom tiers in this game are like, more usable than mid tiers in Brawl for sure.

 

[RoyalSyrup]

Remember guys, Fox will always be Top tier.

 

[OkamiBW]

TOP

S

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Mario

A+

5. Jigglypuff
6. Marth
7. Lucario
8. Ike

A

9. Pit
10. Link
11. Peach
12. Captain Falcon
13. Ganondorf

B+

14. Wolf
15. Zelda
16. Pikachu
17. Lucas
18. Diddy Kong
19. Ivysaur
20. Squirtle

B

21. Snake
22. Ness
23. Sonic
24. Zero Suit Samus
25. R.O.B.

C+

26. Charizard
27. Bowser
28. Toon Link
29. Luigi

C

30. Mr. Game & Watch
31. Wario
32. King Dedede

This is imo

You're missing Donkey Kong.

Also, since MCO has averaged them recently, I will just hold the data. I'll cover for him on averaging if he doesn't get to it ever. Putting the image in the first post.

 

[Luco]

You should play! :D

Mac and no SD card adaptor = no project M, i'm afraid. =(

 

[OkamiBW]

I kind of want to test something. Somewhat along the lines of SHeLL's idea. Do this in addition to posting normal tier lists. This is just sort of to hone in on some stuff.

Order shouldn't matter as it's just frequency of when each char shows up.

From the following characters, which do you think are in the top 8:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Peach
Marth
Ike
Pit
Diddy
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Snake
Wolf

MCO, feel free to take data for this as well, though I will be doing as such. For the time being though, don't worry about showing the data for this poll until about 10 people have contributed.

@MCO - If you'd like my data...

Spoiler

Fox
Falco
Mario
Peach
Sheik
Marth
Puff
Pit

 

[Deleted member]

I kind of want to test something. Somewhat along the lines of SHeLL's idea. Do this in addition to posting normal tier lists. This is just sort of to hone in on some stuff.

Order shouldn't matter as it's just frequency of when each char shows up.

From the following characters, which do you think are in the top 8:

Spoiler

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Peach
Marth
Ike
Pit
Diddy
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Snake
Wolf

Cool idea, the more approaches the better!
I'll let you handle this, just make sure to post your results cause I am curious to see.
Also, I noticed that you posted the non-modified version of the tier list. Is this the one we prefer? I am interested to see how this test compares to the tier list I made without outliers.
[collapse="My top 8"]

[/collapse]

 

[#HBC | Joker]

[glow]Top 8 characters[/glow]

 

[Deleted member]

[glow]Top 8 characters[/glow]

We have the same top 8!!
ZeldaSmash has the same top 8 too, OkamiBW.

 

[Vashimus]

 

[Archangel]

top 8

Fox
Falco
Sheida
Mario
Pit
Diddy
Marth
Peach

Right below that I have Link, Cario and Ike....idk Honestly doing a top 8 is too difficult at this point....not sure if that's a bad thing though.

 

[Vilain]

Fox
Falco
Sheik/Zelda
Mario
Marth
Ike
Diddy
Squirtle

 

[zeldasmash]

TOP

S

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Mario

A+

5. Jigglypuff
6. Marth
7. Lucario
8. Link

A

9. Ike
10. Pit
11. Peach
12. Captain Falcon
13. Ganondorf

B+

14. Wolf
15. Zelda
16. Pikachu
17. Lucas
18. Diddy Kong
19. Ivysaur
20. Squirtle

B

21. Snake
22. Donkey Kong
23. Ness
24. Sonic
25. Zero Suit Samus
26. R.O.B.

C+

27. Charizard
28. Luigi
29. Toon Link
30. Bowser

C

31. Mr. Game & Watch
32. Wario
33. King Dedede

This is imo

Added DK and moved Bowser down a bit.

This also shows you my Top 8 with the two characters that might also contend for Top 8 (Pit & Link)

 

[Magus420]

I think I could've made G&W broke as **** and people would still think he's one of the worst characters, lol.

 

[jalued]

I think I could've made G&W broke as **** and people would still think he's one of the worst characters, lol.

haha so true. People just don't like him so his metagame doesnt really progress

 

[bubbaking]

To be fair, Ivysaur has better combo ability than Samus, along with Solar Beam and Power Whip for finishers, so she's not a slouch in that department.

True, true, but Ivy also has a much worse recovery and is MUCH lighter. She also doesn't have poking options that are as safe as Samus' and personally, I find her edgeguarding to be worse too, but that last one is probably just me.

Edit: Oh, you already said some of this.

Regardless, Ivy's defensive playstyle makes her quite vulnerable in the P:M environment. At least Samus has high survivabity. Does anybody know what Ivy's weight is?

From what I remember, Ivy's weight is around Mario's weight, which I guess is 'average'.

 

[Magus420]

Mario is 100. Average is around 90 (Sheik, Zelda, and Peach). Ivy's actually 85 though.

 

[Grimmz]

poor yoshi, didn't make it to project m

 

[TheDevicer]

Ivy's recovery isn't bad. Up and down air give her room for mixups and she can spam dAir to float her along. I don't think she's stellar, but she definitely isn't a bad character.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

My top 8

 

[Yobolight]

Hey don't remove outliers they will remove themselves through dilution in the sample data and heck those outliers could be even proven correct.

 

[Greenpoe]

Have they posted a changelist from 2.1 to 2.5 yet? The raw data of it would definitely help us understand how characters have changed on the theoretical tier list. (Lucario seems to have gone down and G&W has improved substantially)

 

[OkamiBW]

Cool idea, the more approaches the better!
I'll let you handle this, just make sure to post your results cause I am curious to see.
Also, I noticed that you posted the non-modified version of the tier list. Is this the one we prefer? I am interested to see how this test compares to the tier list I made without outliers.
[collapse="My top 8"]

[/collapse]

You're right. I kind of do like this one better:

Spoiler

Well, next time around we'll take out outliers. For the time being going with the other one so not to exclude anyone's data (I guess).

 

[Zef]

You're right. I kind of do like this one better:

Spoiler

Well, next time around we'll take out outliers. For the time being going with the other one so not to exclude anyone's data (I guess).

WHAT
why is ivysaur, diddy and squirtle so low? and even wario?
nobueno