Tier List Speculation

[OkamiBW]

I need 1 more top 8 character for:
IceArrow
BJN39
Kink-Link5

Also for Archangel and Vilain, I just counted Shielda as Sheik. If you want me to count it as Zelda instead, lmk.

Fox
Falco
Sheik/Zelda
Mario
Marth
Ike
Diddy
Squirtle

Squirtle is not in the list of characters I posted. Please choose another character of the 16 to take his place in your top 8.

My top 8

Sonic is not in the list of characters I posted. Same as above.

List:
From the following characters, which do you think are in the top 8:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Peach
Marth
Ike
Pit
Diddy
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Snake
Wolf

P.S. Yobolight's kind of right...outliers should remove themselves.

 

[Dante']

My top 8 so far

This list might look very different once the change log is released though.

 

[Juushichi]

Game and Watch has improved substantially. You can tell even by going from 2.1 GnW to the FEEL of 2.5 GnW. Fair feels so much better and I'm not sure the move was changed a ton. He's still on the lowest areas of viability though.

My own top-8, no particular order:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Peach
Marth
Ike
Jigglypuff
Diddy Kong

I will admit that I don't really know a ton about Pit. The next rung of viability is close and I honestly believe Zelda by herself is somewhere around Snake's viability... as an aside.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh wow! So I'm right that Ivy is around average weight but I'm wrong that she's as heavy as Mario. She is MUCH lighter. Yep, definitely not as much survivability as Samus.

@Device: I'm not saying her recovery is bad. I'm saying it's "meh". I think she's really solid.

 

[The_NZA]

As a Ness player, it feels like his recovery is incredible with almost no lag, his yoyo game has become way better, he has amazing projectiles, spike and incredible metagaming potential with the DJC and full jump physics. Why again is he on the bottom of everyone's lists? Really, his Fairs feel worse, as if htey took a range hit but thats about it.

Is his range really SO bad to merit the scorn? And if so, what needs to be done to make him viable?

 

[zeldasmash]

Slight change in my Top 8



The character that was replaced

 

[Silly Kyle]

da bess <3

 

[tripwire]

Any reason Lucas isn't considered from your list Okami?

 

[BJN39]

I don't think I'll count myself in if I can't post ALL the chars I believe are top 8.

Don't you think it's a little biased? I mean, there obviously are characters that aren't on that list that people believe are top 8.

...I want to pick Zelda for 8th.

 

[bubbaking]

OkamiBW, is there a reason you chose to display MCO's list of averages that included outliers over the one that didn't? If you remember, for 2.1, his two lists were:
[COLLAPSE="Outliers included"]

Here is Demo 2.1's averages:

Spoiler

S+
1. Fox

2. Falco

S
3. Sheilda

S-
4. Sheik

5. Mario

A+
6. Peach

7. Marth

A
8. Ike

9. Jigglypuff

B+
10. Lucario

11. Link

B
12. Ganondorf

13. Zelda

B-
14. Captain Falcon

15. Wolf

C+
16. Pit

17. Bowser

18. Toon Link

C
19. Snake

20. Pikachu

C-
21. Donkey Kong

22. Lucas

23. Luigi

24. King Dedede

25. Sonic

D+
26. Wario

27. ROB

D
28. Ness

29. Charizard

D-
30. Game & Watch

[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Outliers not included"]

I also made another tier list with the same data, but excluded outliers. Here is what that list looks like:

Notice how there are less tiers in this list. I feel that this is the more accurate of the 2 lists.

[/COLLAPSE]
For comparison, notice how Lucario is #9 with outliers (not including Sheilda) and is #6 without them. Likewise, Sheik was #3 and Mario was #4 with outliers, but they were reversed without them. I think the Lucario example is especially significant, because it more accurately describes the general opinion that Lucario was extremely good in 2.1, which is exactly what eliminating outliers is supposed to do. Outliers hurt averages because they have unnecessary weight in their outcomes. It would be more accurate if you either gave them less weight somehow or simply didn't include them at all.

Edit: Apparently, you can't see the text properly if the second list is expanded, so keep it collapsed when reading.

 

[GHNeko]

I feel like a lot of this energy would be better expanded discussing MUs haha.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Why is weegee so low?

 

[Kink-Link5]

I need 1 more top 8 character for:
IceArrow
BJN39
Kink-Link5

I'll exclude Sheik I guess

Fox, Zelda/Sheik, Falco, Jigglypuff, Mario, Peach, Pit, ZSS

 

[BJN39]

Why is weegee so low?

Well, this is unofficial opinion speculation Tier list. So IDK

I'll exclude Sheik I guess

Fox, Zelda/Sheik, Falco, Jigglypuff, Mario, Peach, Pit, ZSS

Oh, it has ZSS. That simply won't do. She isn't on the list.

I feel like a lot of this energy would be better expanded discussing MUs haha.

This is probably true.

 

[felipe_9595]

haha so true. People just don't like him so his metagame doesnt really progress

I take Melee's ****ty G&W than P:M G&W. It just doesnt feel right.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Lucario if I can't select ZSS I guess.

This isn't biased method of determining relative character strengths at all.

 

[bubbaking]

OK, here's my undoubtedly extremely inaccurate opinion of 2.5's tier list:

Top (S) Tier




High (A) Tier


















Mid (B) Tier













Low (C ) Tier

 

[#HBC | Joker]

somebody needs to use the preview button, and check those character heads

EDIT: I saw that edit

 

[iRobinhoood]

Still sad Samus hasn't made an appearance = ( Is there any character similar to her playstyle?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Still sad Samus hasn't made an appearance = ( Is there any character similar to her playstyle?

Ivysaur is surprisingly close. Camp your heart out.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Ivysaur it is.


EDIT: Profile Character Check

 

[bubbaking]

ROB is also pretty close to Samus, and in some regards, much closer than Ivy is. He is heavy and has a good CC game. His dsmash comes out fast and is a great CCC. His tilts are fast and safe. His recovery is decent. He's even like Samus in that the KB on a lot of his moves is sub par when it comes to KOing. Unfortunately, he's strictly worse than Samus in the OoS department, but he makes up for that by having a decent grab game as well as good follow-ups out of his throws.

Edit: Obviously, ROB is also pretty good at camping/zoning. His lasers come out really fast and they gimp well and his gyro is really good for stage control and also for gimping. ROB is actually really good at edgeguarding and gimping.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I've gotten to play Ivysaur a bit but haven't played ROB much. His heavy weight and OoS options sound like they might deter me. I'll give him a fair shot though.

 

[bubbaking]

Why would heavy weight be a deterrent? That means high survivability, and coupled with a good recovery, it means he will be living longer than a lot of other characters. Sounds a lot like Samus to me.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I think I just don't know enough about PM to make any definitive choices yet. I'm a big pokemon fan though so I'm biased lol. I literally just downloaded and played PM for the first time about 4 hours ago lol

 

[DrinkingFood]

Still sad Samus hasn't made an appearance = ( Is there any character similar to her playstyle?

I feel like ROB is too
What with projectile spam, weird movement options, and tilt shield pressure

EDIT: derp'd that's aready been said

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Just shop around. Ivy is a fine place to start, but there are tons of options for you to fall back to if you decide she doesn't feel right. Rob being just one of them.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I guess its cool that I'd be maining a character with my name lol.

 

[IceArrow]

Top 8:

 

[Nintendude]

Ivysaur seems pretty decent imo but I'm not sure if he'll be able to withstand the bull**** that is Fox and Falco.

 

[Hylian]

OK, here's my undoubtedly extremely inaccurate opinion of 2.5's tier list:

Top (S) Tier




High (A) Tier


















Mid (B) Tier













Low (C ) Tier

Why Link 4th? I think link is significantly worse than he was in 2.1 >_>. Boomerang change really hurt :/.

 

[Nintendude]

Why would they nerf Link's boomerang? That's what made him actually good.

 

[Hylian]

Why would they nerf Link's boomerang? That's what made him actually good.

They made it more like melees >_>... I agree though, rang was the main reason he was so much better, it let him play really aggressive as well. Now it doesn't set up very well from close range so I don't have much reason to be close to anyone with link and feel like I need to play campy :/.

 

[ELI-mination]

They made it more like melees >_>... I agree though, rang was the main reason he was so much better, it let him play really aggressive as well. Now it doesn't set up very well from close range so I don't have much reason to be close to anyone with link and feel like I need to play campy :/.

I didn't even know about this because I haven't even played Link in 2.5 at all yet

But yea, I remember boomerang being his best move imo.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I didn't even know about this because I haven't even played Link in 2.5 at all yet

But yea, I remember boomerang being his best move imo.

Try him Eli, I think he's definitely worse but I'd like to hear your analysis

 

[bubbaking]

Ivysaur seems pretty decent imo but I'm not sure if he'll be able to withstand the bull**** that is Fox and Falco.

Agreed.

Why Link 4th? I think link is significantly worse than he was in 2.1 >_>. Boomerang change really hurt :/.

First of all, I'd like to note that the presence of a char in a tier means more than the actual order of the tier. If chars within a tier were so different in viability that they would need major separation between them, I would have placed them in different tiers. Again, the order within a tier matters less than the fact that a char is actually inside a certain tier. In other words, Squirt and ZSS both being in High Tier together with Link and Peach is more important than their placement near the bottom of High Tier. I don't think order can be established so confidently yet, not until we have more data (and I play this game more).

About Link specifically, I played him a bit, but then again, I was never the type to be aggressive, so I didn't really feel as many problems as you guys are feeling. I feel that the strength of most characters, including the spacees, shines (pun intended ) in defensive play, and regarding that, I believe Link hasn't changed too much for the worse at all. His projectiles still let him do what he needs to do really well; you just have to do it more. Link was always a power player in camping/zoning, and even though his rang isn't as good for CQC, it still lets him play the mid-to-long range game extremely well. I can see where the disappointment and frustration come in, since Link can't so readily switch from campy defense to aggro offense like he could before, but his projectiles, nair, and tilts still do a superb job against anyone who isn't a spacee. This is all obviously just my opinion on the issue.

Again, though, I'd like to stress that I was more keen on emphasizing Link's placement in High Tier and not on his "#4 spot" or his placing at the very top of High Tier. I could very well agree with someone that he may not belong all the way up there, but #4 is closer to #5 than it is to #3 in this case, if you catch my drift. All that said, my High Tier is really big this time around (and my Low Tier is only 1 character large ).

 

[Swann]

Ivysaur seems pretty decent imo but I'm not sure if he'll be able to withstand the bull**** that is Fox and Falco.

From the little experience I've had against falco, lasers are difficult to maneuver around, and you basically have to make sure you have center stage at all times in order to get the bird offstage or near the edge. Falco's combos hurt like a mofo (surprise surprise), but you can pretty much gay him out just as hard with juggles and gimps and traps. If you play Ivy more like marth--staying close and zoning hard--you've got a good shot.
I haven't played any good foxes yet, but I'm sure he's just as obnoxious as you'd expect.

I predict Ivy being a bit better than where the popular opinion currently seems to hold him.

 

[DMG]

Agreed.

I disagree with Link a ton. Not the high tier placement, but where he would be in that. His camping is ok, but it tends to take time and space to set up. If you have a stage that doesn't easily permit it, I feel like his "regular" fighting isn't nearly as strong as some of the upper characters. It's easier to CP Link stage wise than Mario Sheik arguably Marth etc. I'd maybee put him somewhere in top 10, maybe.

 

[bubbaking]

Not gonna dispute that, but just to be clear, you read my whole post, right?

 

[DMG]

Yeah I read it, that being in the tier is more important than the ordering. I'm just not a fan of the top 5 Link placements.