Tier List Speculation

[Deleted member]

On topic; no one is good, everyone is bad. Discuss.

my new tier list:

top:
fox

mid:
some characters

bottom:
ganondorf

tl;dr ganondorf is bad, fox is so good it's bad. most characters are fine.

 

[Alondite]

I don't even know what could be done with Ganon to make him better without breaking the bounds of the Zelda fiction.

 

[Paradoxium]

rat likes cheese, ergo, discuss rat

legitimate question: is there anything in QACs that are actually useful long-term and not just incredibly situational at best

Ma negga, you've come to the right place, gimme sec to respond...

 

[sneakytako]

Why does diddy's fsmash kill so early.

Why does diddy's fair send you almost horizontal.

Makes 0 sense.

 

[Soft Serve]

Why does diddy's fsmash kill so early.

Why does diddy's fair send you almost horizontal.

Makes 0 sense.

I think fsmash has good knockback because its SDI-able. And fair is roughly a 45 degree angle, with slightly more knockback growth than shieks slap, active 1 less frame and has forward reach instead of overhead reach. Its a strong move, yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't even know what could be done with Ganon to make him better without breaking the bounds of the Zelda fiction.

we could make him a dark wizard with like magic and ****

 

[Paradoxium]

rat likes cheese, ergo, discuss rat

legitimate question: is there anything in QACs that are actually useful long-term and not just incredibly situational at best

Aight here we goooooo!!!!!!

It aids his recovery so he can now recovery on the stage and even act out of it

It helps with stage control, you are able to cover a wide distance in a short amount of time

When attacking you can either do a rising air attack or a grounded air attack, you can also waveland

You can jab reset with it, which is very helpful when you far away, also it cancels on platforms so you can jab reset someone on a platform and attack immediately after. It looks pretty cool when you do it

When comboing, sometimes your opponent gets hit too far for you to follow up but with QaC you can chase them down and continue the string, you can also put on the pressure and not give them enough time to collect themselves

You can QaC cross up instead of the usual shffl cross up

Just a few uses of QaC, there are more but i dont feel like going in depth

 

[sneakytako]

I think fsmash has good knockback because its SDI-able. And fair is roughly a 45 degree angle, with slightly more knockback growth than shieks slap, active 1 less frame and has forward reach instead of overhead reach. Its a strong move, yeah.

BS diddy's fair is at a 45 degree angle. Maybe 45 degrees down and straight across when you DI up.

Gonna test how SDIable Fsmash is, they just buffed it in the last patch that made it hard to. Gonna guess fatties have like no chance SDI that shiz.

 

[Oracle]

if you're on the ground you can hold down and shield and diddys fsmash will never kill you

 

[lordvaati]

Poor Olimar got smacked with the nerf bat 2 games in a row....

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Poor Olimar got smacked with the nerf bat 2 games in a row....

Off-topic, but I don't think his three Pikmin is a nerf. He got a trade-off with the fixed order of Pikmin and what looks to be a better recovery.

 

[Kankato]

Poor Olimar got smacked with the nerf bat 2 games in a row....

That automatic Pikmin order has to be worth something. Set yourself up with a Purple and a Red, Damage for days.

 

[JOE!]

I just wonder where Rock Pikmin come in now that he has Flying...

 

[Osennecho]

So what is really mind ******* me about Olimar in S4 since he's being mentioned... If having more Pikmin makes him more heavy during his recovery, does it actually make him more heavy? Will he die super easy if you kill his pikmin? Does purple weigh more?...

 

[CORY]

edit: sorry, wrong topic completely.

 

[Ripple]

I think I saw Ripple using Yoshi in the EXP8 Highlight reel.

you saw correct;y

 

[Soft Serve]

BS diddy's fair is at a 45 degree angle. Maybe 45 degrees down and straight across when you DI up.

Gonna test how SDIable Fsmash is, they just buffed it in the last patch that made it hard to. Gonna guess fatties have like no chance SDI that shiz.

Diddy's fair, taken straight from gurukid

Spoiler

Total: 50
Hit: 6-14 (Stronger Hit 6-7, Weaker Hit 8-14)
IASA: 38
Auto Cancel: <2 33>
Landing Lag: 22 (11 when L-canceled)
Damage: 14, 7

I guess thats closer to a 35-40 degree angle

 

[ELI-mination]

my new tier list:

top:
fox

mid:
some characters

bottom:
ganondorf

tl;dr ganondorf is bad, fox is so good it's bad. most characters are fine.

You must acknowledge that Ganon's Boots = their own separate character in ultra mega super top tier.
Then Fox.
Then other characters.
Then Ganon's actual body.

 

[JOE!]

Clearly, we should give Fox ganon's boots

 

[CORY]

but... would that make fox's feet noninvincible, but the rest of his legs invincible, during his usmash?

 

[sneakytako]

Diddy's fair, taken straight from gurukid

Spoiler

Total: 50
Hit: 6-14 (Stronger Hit 6-7, Weaker Hit 8-14)
IASA: 38
Auto Cancel: <2 33>
Landing Lag: 22 (11 when L-canceled)
Damage: 14, 7

I guess thats closer to a 35-40 degree angle

That's a BIG diff if it's 35 degrees. It looks closer to 30 degrees to me.

 

[AncientPancakes]

A question for those of you who have experience playing as or against Meta Knight:

1. What would you say his strengths are?

2. What would you say his weaknesses are?

3. Where would you put MK on a tier list?

A friend and I were discussing these questions the other day and I just wanted to hear some opinions on the subject.

 

[Mera Mera]

That's a BIG diff if it's 35 degrees. It looks closer to 30 degrees to me.

You are still falling at your normal fall speed during knockback, so it's common for the angle you see during no DI to appear smaller than the actual knockback angle.

 

[sneakytako]

No I'm looking at gurukid's hitbox data. There's like a flash where the KB angle is shown, it looks more like 30 degrees.

 

[Strong Badam]

Diddy's fair, taken straight from gurukid

Spoiler

Total: 50
Hit: 6-14 (Stronger Hit 6-7, Weaker Hit 8-14)
IASA: 38
Auto Cancel: <2 33>
Landing Lag: 22 (11 when L-canceled)
Damage: 14, 7

I guess thats closer to a 35-40 degree angle

it's 25 or 30 depending on hitbox.

 

[sneakytako]

if you're on the ground you can hold down and shield and diddys fsmash will never kill you

Can't CC after around 140, it will still kill you from the middle of the stage. (Couldn't test with perfect DI, but w/e)

Also, if your not on the ground it still kills you at like 90. Whyyyyyyy

it's 25 or 30 depending on hitbox.

Why strongbad whyyyyyyy. There's no reason for this.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Is that fair angle supposed to be exclusive to Sheik or something? :/

 

[sneakytako]

Like in brawl diddy is a high tier character with some of the strongest stage control, with this only weakness of having poor kill moves.

In PM not only has he gained really good movement, now he has some of the best kill moves in the game. There's no reason to go that far. Please nerf his fair and fsmash, he will function fine with them killing at a later percent.

 

[Vashimus]

F*ck giving good characters good moves.

Ain't that right ?

 

[sneakytako]

Btw diddy fsmash kills about 20% earlier than charizard fsmash. Cause that makes sense.

 

[JOE!]

Btw diddy fsmash kills about 20% earlier than charizard fsmash. Cause that makes sense.

Does it actually do more KB? Or is this just observation?

 

[Terotrous]

Poor Olimar got smacked with the nerf bat 2 games in a row....

My initial reaction was "lol, that's even worse than PM".

The one cue Smash 4 takes from PM had to be that.

 

[Hylian]

if you're on the ground you can hold down and shield and diddys fsmash will never kill you

This is only true for 4 frame landers, does not work with every character. Also, the move has SDI multipliers on it to make it harder to SDI.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

If we are on the topic of boots, lets talk about Zero Suit Samus's boots!

If you stare at the screen long enough, you'll be seeing what I see....

Also, http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/zerosuit_samus.html

I'm definitely liking this model of ZSS

 

[Oracle]

This is only true for 4 frame landers, does not work with every character. Also, the move has SDI multipliers on it to make it harder to SDI.

If you're on the ground, then you would be CCing the 1st hit, right? idk i've made it work with like every character i play but i could be wrong

 

[Hylian]

If you're on the ground, then you would be CCing the 1st hit, right? idk i've made it work with like every character i play but i could be wrong

*shrugs* this is what magus tells me and I trust all things that magus tells me haha. I think for example it wouldn't work with donkey kong, I don't remember the exact scenario he gave me though unfortunately.

 

[DrinkingFood]

rat likes cheese, ergo, discuss rat

legitimate question: is there anything in QACs that are actually useful long-term and not just incredibly situational at best

Have you seen anther holy **** that guy is good with QACs
just youtube him vs M2K

 

[B.W.]

Anther's QAC power is too strong. I've yet to see anyone use QAC in PM as well as he does.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Why does diddy's fair send you almost horizontal.

Makes 0 sense.

why does a horizontal kick have horizontal knockback

you tell me

 

[DrinkingFood]

why does a horizontal kick have horizontal knockback

you tell me

why does ROB's dsmash have upward knockback when he swings his arms horizontally

you tell me

Spoiler

alternatively you could put it in the ROB frame data thread