Tier List Speculation

[Player -0]

That would be epic, the metagame would revolve around who could catch/throw the boomerang better.

Especially in Link dittos.

 

[Seagull Joe]

requires bananas to be good.

 

[Deleted member]

Diddy is not solid without bananas lol. He has good moves but nothing that is idsjointed enough to be spaced in neutral in most match ups. Without bananas he is just a worse falcon. Bananas make match ups like marth and shiek and take them from a 70/30 to around 55/45 for marth, 60/40 shiek. Ness is a lot better than diddy without bananas, and i mean a lot.

can i disagree with this entire post? you made 6 assertions and i disagree with all 6 of them.

 

[Bleck]

Why would you throw Diddy's bananas at a dude when you can just leave them on the ground and shoot peanuts at them instead. This is a legitimate question.

 

[Soft Serve]

can i disagree with this entire post? you made 6 assertions and i disagree with all 6 of them.

Definitely, I'm wrong a lot which is why I try to refrain from posting too much here, can't help myself about talking about diddy though. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the character.

 

[B.W.]

I will snatch your peanuts out of the air and throw them back at you. I will the. Scoop your bananas and throw them at you.

Bananas also trip on contact after being thrown though if the opponent is grounded which makes Diddy have a ranged tech chase game. Bananas can also be thrown in more directions than peanuts van be shot. Also Diddy has a pretty solid Glide Toss giving him more awesome OoS options with a banana in hand.

If you Glide Toss a banana against a shielding opponent and get the banana under their feet I think the banana will trip them through their shield.

 

[Saproling]

Diddy is not solid without bananas lol. He has good moves but nothing that is idsjointed enough to be spaced in neutral in most match ups. Without bananas he is just a worse falcon. Bananas make match ups like marth and shiek and take them from a 70/30 to around 55/45 for marth, 60/40 shiek. Ness is a lot better than diddy without bananas, and i mean a lot.

Yeah your right they should give Ness PSI nanner's.
But really all I was saying is if nanner's aren't out for a few seconds its not going to kill him.They most certainly should be out as much as possible though.

 

[Deleted member]

Diddy is not solid without bananas lol. He has good moves but nothing that is idsjointed enough to be spaced in neutral in most match ups. Without bananas he is just a worse falcon. Bananas make match ups like marth and shiek and take them from a 70/30 to around 55/45 for marth, 60/40 shiek. Ness is a lot better than diddy without bananas, and i mean a lot.

1. diddy is great with or without bananas because he's a fast character with really solid normals and good fundamentals can carry him all day.
2. most characters don't want to be using spaced disjointed attacks in neutral. even characters that specialize in those types of moves like marth and ike are generally better off playing the footsie game than spacing disjointed attacks.
3. even without bananas he's probably better than falcon because half the cast has punishment games specifically to deal with fox/falco and CF gets dragged into that by default. diddy certainly falls fast but he doesn't have to face nearly the same amount of hate on the punishment game.
4. there's a good chance that bananas don't significantly change the marth MU because that entire MU is based around the punishment game rather than neutral, specifically marth's upthrow. bananas might aid diddy's punishment game but marth's combo weight is so bad the difference is probably fairly trivial.
5. bananas don't change the sheik MU much either, because even though it affects the neutral game in that MU greatly, sheik is generally on the needles plan vs diddy anyway, and bananas tend to be much stronger vs moving opponents than projectile spammers.
6. ness's goodness gets a lot of debate, but i think it's safe to say that no character is a lot better than diddy.

 

[Strong Badam]

in case anyone was wondering, m2k is really ****ing good.

 

[didds]

I was wondering, I just assumed he was free

#diddynation

 

[Juushichi]

Why would you throw Diddy's bananas at a dude when you can just leave them on the ground and shoot peanuts at them instead. This is a legitimate question.

Popgun is so stupid and good oh my goodness. Then you add that with the rest of Diddy's cheese. Maaaaaaan.

 

[1FD]

I agree with the fact that PM characters are no where near the level of optimization that Melee high tiers have been developed to. My biggest fear in PM is that while Melee characters for the most part have to make the most of the tools they had and are forced to use moves in counter-intuitive ways to make things just work (Falcon is the best example of this) PM characters as a whole don't really have bad moves or ones that don't have an obvious situation where it would be useful. PM characters are monsters tbh, and I do love it.

To highlight the level of optimization that still needs to be done, Look at how well understood marth is: http://smashboards.com/threads/kadano’s-perfect-marth-class—advanced-frame-data-application.337035/

once threads like this start popping up for PM characters and the information within it completely utilized, the metagame will blow up imo. It will take a while because character to character interactions are still being fleshed out and there are a ton of matchups, but most characters have insane potential.

Real talk though I just quoted you twice and you have good posts I like you but noone can compete with someone who has a avatar of the GREATEST EKOSTORY EVER TOLD
Is there even frame data or guides on things ever? No way we getting as advanced as that Marth thing (THATS NUTS) without both data and guides to start.

That Marth thing should work for PM too so thats good

Definitely, I'm wrong a lot which is why I try to refrain from posting too much here, can't help myself about talking about diddy though. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the character.

Good posts i like you lets talk about monkeys

How do you edgeguard offstage if you HAVE to go offstage to edgeguard?
Like safe stuff like drop down double jump Bair and Fair or something or just UpB and hit them with it?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

@ DMG you call DK's grab the Nacho Supreme but Diddy gets no nicknames?

DMG plz

 

[Strong Badam]

is it the nacho supreme because of nacho libre
or is this a layered joke that ends in calling dk's grab cheesy

 

[FlamingForce]

is it the nacho supreme because of nacho libre
or is this a layered joke that ends in calling dk's grab cheesy

I hope it is cos that's a good one.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I assumed it was the cheese thing

 

[DMG]

http://smashboards.com/threads/tier-list-speculation.331666/page-264#post-16422122

Strongbad, there are no layers. Well, maybe layers of Nachos and Cheese. The point being, yes I have no idea why people came up with Nacho Libre. Calling his grab Nacho Supreme was better than the obvious regional cheese names.

 

[GP&B]

I want a grilled cheese so ****n bad, **** this thread I'm out.

 

[Bleck]

I actually just made grilled cheese before checking this thread. ****in' weird, man.

 

[NickRiddle]

Too meta.

 

[Vashimus]

Bees.
Cheese.

Ho ho.

 

[didds]

grilled cheese with pepper jack is top tier

 

[Jacob29]

I don't think Ness is top tier, but I think he is annoying.

he shuts out characters like Bowser from doing well (although a fair few characters do that). I practically never want to play that MU and my house mate mains ness.

 

[guedes the brawler]

I don't think Ness is top tier, but I think he is annoying.

he shuts out characters like Bowser from doing well (although a fair few characters do that). I practically never want to play that MU and my house mate mains ness.

what are you doing, this is the cheese topic, not the tier list topic!

 

[Bryonato]

grilled cheese with pepper jack is top tier

Havarti tho

 

[didds]

Havarti tho

yum, i like your style, now ima try this after work haha. half the boards are gonna have grilled cheese today

 

[Jacob29]

what are you doing, this is the cheese topic, not the tier list topic!

oh my mistake.

but PK Fire is Cheese?

 

[DMG]

It's certainly not liquid

 

[trash?]

rat likes cheese, ergo, discuss rat

legitimate question: is there anything in QACs that are actually useful long-term and not just incredibly situational at best

 

[HaZarD2kv]

I like where these conversations are going. Don't forget jalapenos and bacon on those sandwiches.

 

[standardtoaster]

Stay on topic.

 

[mYzeALot]

So back on topic i guess: Where do people generally put Yoshi on the tier list? To me he seems definitely in the upper half because he is his melee self, but can jump out of shield, much better up-tilt, as well as other improvements. He still has his survivability, and amazing combo game. I can only think that his main weakness is his recovery, but it doesn't even seem god awful.

 

[Bleck]

On topic; no one is good, everyone is bad. Discuss.

 

[GP&B]

Sleeper with extremely high potential. This applies to a lot of the cast, but Yoshi has some notables that make him so dangerous.

 

[Bryonato]

hopefully with vman taking PM more seriously we'll see some advancement in the yoshi meta

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I think I saw Ripple using Yoshi in the EXP8 Highlight reel.

 

[Alondite]

I've no idea how to play Yoshi, but even from messing around with him it seems like there is quite a bit of potential there.

 

[FlamingForce]

Yoshi will be extremely dangerous once he's a bit more explored imo, his combo game is insane.

 

[Hylian]

Why would you throw Diddy's bananas at a dude when you can just leave them on the ground and shoot peanuts at them instead. This is a legitimate question.

You try that against me and tell me how it goes . Heck, you can even throw the bananas if you want.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

#peanutsfired