Tier List Speculation

[Alphicans]

I'd probably place DDD in my top 12 characters tbh. That character is mad good

 

[Fortress]

MK has ungodly mobility so he really shouldn't care about Din's Fire.

He wasn't top tier in Melee. The current tier list has him placed 10th, but you could certainly argue that a character like Samus or Pikachu is more appropriate in that 10th slot (going strictly by tournament success you would see this at the very least).

@DDD being bottom
naaaaah
that's just people not seeing the light that he's surprisingly average

I'd say 'Dorf was at the very least high-tier in Melee (which is probably what I meant to have been saying this whole time), with only Samus being a contender for that position out of her and Pikachu. As for D3, he just doesn't impress me. He's got some moves, and some people can show off some serious jank with him, but overall I just don't see him having a huge presence among other more viable characters, or even some of the high-mid tiers. He's got the boon of having the grab-game of Sheik with the disadvantage of being floaty, large, and not Sheik.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Here's my personal opinion list in no particular order

Hella Solid
Luca$, Sheik, Marth, Fox, Falco, Peach, Link, Sonic, Mario, Snake, Pit, Meta Knight, Wolf

Pretty Solid
ROB, Mewtwo, Pikachu, Ice Climbers, Kirby, Roy, Ivysaur, Wario, Diddy, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi

Solid Enough
Dedede, Toon Link, Olimar, Charizard, Squirtle, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Bowser, Game and Watch, Ness, Ike, Samus, Captain Falcon

Could Be Solider
Zelda, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff

 

[9bit]

I made a tier list bell curve, my first PM tier list ever. Wowowow.

Best on the left, worst on the right, otherwise sorta following general standard deviation rules.

I consider each column to be a separation within the normal standard deviation separations, but not by as much, if that makes sense. For instance, Meta Knight and Mario are in the same standard deviation section, but I put Meta Knight slightly better than Mario. Meta Knight is in the same column as Sheik and Wolf, so they're too close to differentiate. The order/height within each column doesn't matter at all.

Spoiler: My Tier List Bell Curve

So there it is. This is based more on where I think characters will end up than where how they're doing now in tournaments, but that's certainly part of it.

I don't know, it's probably bad and wrong and Wrong Bad anyway. The right side was the hardest, and probably the one most susceptible to change.

 

[Oracle]

d3 will be top tier when all the d3 players learn to use down b for everything

 

[Seagull Joe]

I'd say 'Dorf was at the very least high-tier in Melee (which is probably what I meant to have been saying this whole time), with only Samus being a contender for that position out of her and Pikachu. As for D3, he just doesn't impress me. He's got some moves, and some people can show off some serious jank with him, but overall I just don't see him having a huge presence among other more viable characters, or even some of the high-mid tiers. He's got the boon of having the grab-game of Sheik with the disadvantage of being floaty, large, and not Sheik.

No, he was MT. He gets outcamped easily cause he's slow.

Also, holy hell, you live in Montana. Is there any scene that exists there?

 

[GP&B]

Tink is definitely a mid. Yink-like projectiles with AGT and numerous ways to turn conversions into deadly KOs makes him competent if not a bit over-reliant on setups for KOs.

Imma do a list just to follow trends here:

Solid
-Snake
-Kirby's vB

Liquid
-Squirtle's Water Gun
-Also Snake

Gaseous
-Wario's vB

 

[CyberZixx]

For Liquid you forgot Jigglypuffs getting hit animation.

 

[KayB]

Spoiler: My Tier List Bell Curve

I agreed with everything up until the 7th column. Rob, Zelda, and Peach are definitely not worse than Roy, Charizard, DDD, and Lucario. Pikachu and Olimar certainly aren't in Low Tier. I believe that Ness is a bad character, but apparently the top player in Texas right now is a Ness player, so idk. G&W and TL are probably low mid-tier, definitely not low tier. Squirtle is not as bad as Ganondorf, that's impossible imo.

 

[Empyrean]

I can agree with the likes of D3, Diddy, and Squirtle being down there, but 'Dorf? Wasn't he top-tier in Melee? I can't understand why he'd be dropped down. He's still a top performer in my book. As for the other top tiers, I'd definitely include Fox/Falco, Lucas, Sheik, Pit, MK... you know what, I'll just compile what I feel is a close representation of a current tier list. I'm in no way saying I'm absolutely correct, but I'm hoping this is close to what some people have in mind for some characters.

1) Fox
2) Falco
3) Marth
4) Sheik
5) Pit
6) Meta Knight
7) Captain Falcon
8) Wolf
9) Lucas
10) Peach
11) Jigglypuff
12) Ike
13) Mario
14) Snake

15) Ganondorf
16) Luigi
17) Link
18) Ice Climbers
19)Olimar
20) Ivysaur
21) Samus
22) Roy
23) Zelda
24) R.O.B.
25) Zero Suit Samus
26) Mewtwo
27) Sonic
28) Wario
29) Donkey Kong
30) Toon Link
31) Lucario

32) Bowser
33) Pikachu
34) Mr. GnW
35) Diddy Kong
36) Charizard
37) DeDeDe
38) Squirtle

Placement's I'm unsure about: Yoshi, Kirby, and... I'm missing a character...

I'm sure a lot of those placements are probably incorrect to the general playerbase, but I'm hoping that a few of them are generally considered accurate as well.

Personally, I think I'd drop Peach down a few spots, move Bowser up a few.

Ness2gud4tierlists.
Also, just curious, why put Jiggs so high and Diddy so low? Seems like a solid list otherwise, I would just switch the two.

 

[Nguz95]

I made a tier list bell curve, my first PM tier list ever. Wowowow.

Best on the left, worst on the right, otherwise sorta following general standard deviation rules.

I consider each column to be a separation within the normal standard deviation separations, but not by as much, if that makes sense. For instance, Meta Knight and Mario are in the same standard deviation section, but I put Meta Knight slightly better than Mario. Meta Knight is in the same column as Sheik and Wolf, so they're too close to differentiate. The order/height within each column doesn't matter at all.

Spoiler: My Tier List Bell Curve

So there it is. This is based more on where I think characters will end up than where how they're doing now in tournaments, but that's certainly part of it.

I don't know, it's probably bad and wrong and Wrong Bad anyway. The right side was the hardest, and probably the one most susceptible to change.

Hyesz! Somebody used my idea (It was also Nausicaa's idea, but he put it in a double bell curve). I would recommend you reverse the order though. Usually the right tail is what matters the most, and you've put the worst characters there. It's just a visual thing. Now. I have to make my own!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

In spite of poor neutral, DDD is still pretty hard to combo/KO and has an especially good punish game, through a mixture of his above average grab and gimp games. He's some kind of Marth/Pit hybrid in terms of gameplay, with a great edgeguarding ability that kind of extends to a wall of pain close to the stage. I'd call it Gatekeeper to the ledge, or Gandalf.

Maybe he has something missing that really makes him SOLID, but he's pretty close to it. The Ooze is to be respected.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

DDD doesn't need a wall of pain when he has fair
DDD is solidly average which means he is very capable in this game.
also the DDD mu versus fox is hilarious because if fox doesn't sweetspot the ledge, DDD meets him with a fully charged jet hammer
and if fox is sweetspotting the ledge, then DDD can just knock fox out of the air in 28740598 different ways
plus 0-death combos off of uthrow

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

DDD doesn't need a wall of pain when he has fair

... Fair IS DDD's walling move. It has range, coverage and power instead of speed and carry ability, which is what denies DDD a true way to WoP, but it gets the job done with proper spacing.

Note that I didn't say he has a Pit-esque WoP, he has something that kind of toes the line between WoP and edgeguard. Basically his ability to go out safely and place huge hitboxes exactly where you don't want him is the character's core.

 

[Jolteon]

Tink and Dedede are def not bad and should AT THE VERY LEAST be considered Okay.

Shh, don't let them know.

 

[Terotrous]

Tink and Dedede are def not bad and should AT THE VERY LEAST be considered Okay.

I could maybe believe it on Dedede. The thing with him is he's very different from Brawl despite not having as obvious changes as someone like Lucario or Wario. In Brawl, playing Dedede was all about Dees and chain grab, now it seems like you probably have to go in and use normals and his other specials (DDD has other specials?!), and it's hard to tell what's good yet. His recovery is also still totally awful and there's a lot more characters out there who can gimp now.


For Toon Link, though, I really don't see it. Is there any situation where you couldn't do way better by just picking Link instead? I feel like of all the characters in the game, he's the one where "lost the match on the character select screen" is the most true.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I could maybe believe it on Dedede. The thing with him is he's very different from Brawl despite not having as obvious changes as someone like Lucario or Wario. In Brawl, playing Dedede was all about Dees and chain grab, now it seems like you probably have to go in and use normals and his other specials (DDD has other specials?!), and it's hard to tell what's good yet. His recovery is also still totally awful and there's a lot more characters out there who can gimp now.


For Toon Link, though, I really don't see it. Is there any situation where you couldn't do way better by just picking Link instead? I feel like of all the characters in the game, he's the one where "lost the match on the character select screen" is the most true.

Watch top Tink players, then come back.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

For Toon Link, though, I really don't see it. Is there any situation where you couldn't do way better by just picking Link instead? I feel like of all the characters in the game, he's the one where "lost the match on the character select screen" is the most true.

> Tink loses at CSS
> DDD's recovery is awful

Is Ike any good in this parallel dimension you inhabit? I'm curious.

 

[Rizner]

Why do people place Kirby so high? He doesn't have great approaches against range (swords and projectiles, meaning marth, link, samus, etc), gets pooped on by Lucas, Fox, falco and doesn't really have matchups on the other end to balance that out. His dash attack is ok if you hit with it, but clanks with a bunch and often others can act faster after that, and when used as a main approach gets read easily based on when startup is and punished. If he lands a grab that's great, but so many characters can avoid itif they play safe. I'd unfortunately say that I would put him bottom 10 in this game, and could see at best bottom 15.

 

[ChristianStewarts#1fan]

Watch top Tink players, then come back.

I dont think you could prove much for toon links cause by telling people to watch the the top tink players, as good as he is.

 

[Zwarm]

There's no need for a neutral game when Kirby can just dash attack his way into battle

Super dash dance bros doesn't work against him, and it makes me sad

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I dont think you could prove much for toon links cause by telling people to watch the the top tink players, as good as he is.

what this even mean you saying

 

[Rizner]

There's no need for a neutral game when Kirby can just dash attack his way into battle

Super dash dance bros doesn't work against him, and it makes me sad

His da is not that great, though. It is fancy and all, and safer than many others, but still not that safe and easy to play around.

 

[Ripple]

... Fair IS DDD's walling move.

no it is not

 

[grandpappy]

Erbody sleeping on T. Link. Grounded Up B out of shield is godlike for realz tho.

I'm also on the DDD train. He seems like he can be better than most people think. There's so many characters in this cast with potential for greatness, we just need to give them time to shine (pun intended?). My (limited knowledge though I may have) opinion is that Jiggs and Ganon are just two characters who had tools in Melee that are just outdone by the rest of the PM cast.

 

[Kink-Link5]

You can literally shield Toon Link's Up B while in the middle of getting hit by it.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

This is a Tier List that I have been working on for the past month, some people misinterpret letters and dislike that system so I tried to give new titles, (pretty much same thing though). I have accounted for over 50 different tournaments, weighting larger tournaments and the more recent the tournament is in order to recognize improving meta. I then combined this information with the tier lists surveys that were filled out by nearly 100 people from smashboards - hopefully this means they are opinions of people who play the game enough and have some validity in there speculations.

The tiers are divided by gaps in the scores they received. They should represent current effectiveness in competitive play. So top tier characters are something like, versatile and good MU's so that they can be played alone and place in a tournament. Middle tier characters are solid, but either need to outsmart the opponent or a secondary character for bad MU's in order to place in a tournament. And then bottom tier characters need a good day or definitely need an alternate character as well. These descriptions get more or less valid as the character is placed on the lower or upper side of the tier.

This is a pretty balanced game as seen by all bottom tier characters placing at least a few times. But if this tier list has really confusing placements of any character then its either because the community disagrees with you or the character has had unexpected tournament results. So in that case please show me any tournaments that you the character did well in and if I havent included them then I will put them in for next month.

 

[B.W.]

No way Roy is higher than T.Link, and no way Jiggs or ICs are that low.

Also there's no way in frozen hell that any of the "Bottom-Lower" characters are in that section at all. How you put Ganondorf above everyone you put him above is a fantastic mystery.

 

[Terotrous]

Watch top Tink players, then come back.

That's part of the problem, I'm not seeing many Toon Link players who don't just get bopped so it's mostly theory monstering at this point. Apparently some Toon Link did well at CSS, where's the archive for that?

Erbody sleeping on T. Link. Grounded Up B out of shield is godlike for realz tho.

That's a good example of something else Link does better.

 

[Fortress]

Ness2gud4tierlists.
Also, just curious, why put Jiggs so high and Diddy so low? Seems like a solid list otherwise, I would just switch the two.

Oh, Ness! Okay, that's who I was forgetting. He'd probably be in the 30-35 range for me. As for Jiggs's placement, she's still got a solid recovery game and viable off-stage tools, and is still a strong asset in doubles as far as being a stock tank with high survivability goes. For Diddy's placement, well, I've just personally never seen much of him one way or the other. He's got some good tech options with the glide toss and AGT, but has (in my opinion) a somewhat gimpabile recovery.

No, he was MT. He gets outcamped easily cause he's slow.

Also, holy hell, you live in Montana. Is there any scene that exists there?

Missoula and some of the larger cities in the NW region have some lively ones, mostly because they're college cities. I'm developing my own in Kalispell, and we've at least got a community who's aware of the game here. My brother attends high school, and one of the more serious players in our group goes to college, so they can both track down more people to join up. There's no strong scene, but I did manage to host a nifty eight-player tournament. Weak, but a start for a city which had absolutely no scene a month prior.

I guess I could understand how Ganondorf's speed would hurt his placement, but I would go as far as to put him at high-mid, just below top-tier. I still think the 25-17 range suits him.

Why do people place Kirby so high?

Don't you worry, I place him pretty low. Mostly because he's barely been in the build, has been changed up pretty drastically, and we have yet to see what he can really do (I've only seen a couple of games from ChuDat to see some cool Kirby jank).

Watch top Tink players, then come back.

That's kind of unfair though, there are a couple of excellent Tinks out there, but Tink himself hasn't consistently been placing very high in anything (as far as I'm aware). He's got a very small playerbase of competent mains compared to some of the other more high-tiered characters. Just because a couple of people shine with him doesn't really mean he should move up that much. I could justify him being in the late-mid twenties, but nothing higher than 25.

 

[Vashimus]

@ the tier list above, WTF is "upper bottom"? "Oh, they're among the worst characters in the game, but not quite."

 

[Fortress]

View attachment 9609

Diddy in top-tier. Lucas below him. Now I know you're kidding.

 

[Soft Serve]

Did you guys read his post? It was made based on tourney results and the forms we filled out. I think its roughly accurate for what the current tournament trends are like. And @ Fortress ,most people do put diddy in the top 10. Although i agree that lucas is a bit low.

 

[Fortress]

Did you guys read his post? It was made based on tourney results and the forms we filled out. I think its roughly accurate for what the current tournament trends are like. And @ Fortress ,most people do put diddy in the top 10. Although i agree that lucas is a bit low.

I've got mad Diddy bias, yo. I just plain dislike him.

...I see you're a Diddy main. You're one of those people, eh?

 

[Ali Baba 177]

No way Roy is higher than T.Link, and no way Jiggs or ICs are that low.

Also there's no way in frozen hell that any of the "Bottom-Lower" characters are in that section at all. How you put Ganondorf above everyone you put him above is a fantastic mystery.

Well first off, Roy is voted on being better than TL in the community voted tier lists in addition to roy placing better on average. Jiggs and IC may not be that low, but they havent seen much tournament play, especially IC. And Jiggs is really similar to her melee self, which was definitely good, however every other character has gotten better, so she now has tougher opponents.

@ the tier list above, WTF is "upper bottom"? "Oh, they're among the worst characters in the game, but not quite."

Like I said before I was just trying to create new titles cause some people dont like the lettering system, guess my idea sucked lol. I was trying to have it say 3 general tiers - Top, Middle, and Bottom, then each one has some division within it as well. So the Bottom - upper would mean the characters are on the better side of the low tier.
Maybe a grouped list with no titles would be best..,

Diddy in top-tier. Lucas below him. Now I know you're kidding.

I agree,that lucas should be above diddy, but diddy still belongs in top teir I think. As for lucas, it is just because he actually hasnt done placements in tournaments recently, and not a whole lot before either, just average amount.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I can't believe there are people that think Diddy isn't great.

They must be...

BANANAS

 

[Fortress]

I can't believe there are people that think Diddy isn't great.

They must be...

BANANAS

GET OUT.

 

[Ripple]

gee, I guess someone didn't find that pun.... appeeling

 

[Fortress]

Guys, this thread got off track really quickly with all of the monkey business. I'm going to have to peel out at this point.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I then combined this information with the tier lists surveys that were filled out by nearly 100 people from smashboards - hopefully this means they are opinions of people who play the game enough and have some validity in there speculations.

This is where you goofed
Probably the majority of player's opinions on here have no validity