Tier List Speculation

[Seagull Joe]

You seriously have no idea loool

Get me into the PMBR then man. I'm already in the BBR. Might as well get me added to the PMBR.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Get me into the PMBR then man. I'm already in the BBR. Might as well get me added to the PMBR.

Duel him for the right, that is, if you believe in the heart of cards!

 

[Ripple]

Get me into the PMBR then man. I'm already in the BBR. Might as well get me added to the PMBR.

you actually have to be good at PM to be in the PMBR though

 

[Kink-Link5]

you actually have to be good at PM to be in the PMBR though

JCaesar seems to have gotten away with it.

 

[Empyrean]

Nobody seems to have noticed that the Enlightment is happening again...

Oh believe me, we have.

you actually have to be good at PM to be in the PMBR though

I thought you could also be a member if you have good programming/modding/coding skills?

 

[Seagull Joe]

Duel him for the right, that is, if you believe in the heart of cards!

I'd destroy strong bad in a duel looooool.

you actually have to be good at PM to be in the PMBR though

That's not how things work. Back room members can be any of these qualifications for any BBR, MBR, SSBBR, or PMBR:

1. Big time theorycrafter and poster on smashboards
2. Top player
3. Has a specific set of skills (In the PMBR case I'm sure coding and programming merits this qualification).

JCaesar seems to have gotten away with it.

Apex PM Results:
17. Jcaesar
33: Strong Bad

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

@ Strong Badam slay this man

 

[Strong Badam]

taking 1 tourney's results as the be-all-end-all for skill is something one-hit-wonder players do lmao
keep trying kid. ive had top 8 placings at majors in this game for over a year, only done poorly at like two of them, one of which i was the main TO of so wasn't able to focus on my play. i'll mm your wolf for any amount

 

[Oracle]

1. Big time theorycrafter and poster on smashboards
2. Top player
3. Has a specific set of skills (In the PMBR case I'm sure coding and programming merits this qualification).

you are none of these. Why did you even bother posting this list? Didn't you just pick up pm like 3 weeks ago?

 

[Seagull Joe]

taking 1 tourney's results as the be-all-end-all for skill is something one-hit-wonder players do lmao
keep trying kid. ive had top 8 placings at majors in this game for over a year, only done poorly at like two of them, one of which i was the main TO of so wasn't able to focus on my play. i'll mm your wolf for any amount

I don't play in PM, but I'll MM you with for $50 in brawl LOL.

you are none of these. Why did you even bother posting this list? Didn't you just pick up pm like 3 weeks ago?

Just for the hell of it. I wasn't saying I fit any of those qualifications. I just stated the ways to get in any backroom.

Edit: -dead-@you calling me kid. I'm 3 years older then you. I'm not even saying you're bad Strong Bad. I know you're decent at PM. I was just saying Jcaesar isn't bad.

 

[Strong Badam]

Oh, I missed Kink Link's post, my bad dude lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

I sincerely hope people know by now the only thing I genuinely think is bad about JC is his brstm choice. I can never do ****talk because I don't remotely mean any of it.

I never noticed how janky Squirtle's up-B was until now.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Oh, I missed Kink Link's post, my bad dude lol

No prob man.

I sincerely hope people know by now the only thing I genuinely think is bad about JC is his brstm choice. I can never do ****talk because I don't remotely mean any of it.

I never noticed how janky Squirtle's up-B was until now.

I highly agree with you in that regard. I'm a man who mostly puts touhou or good sounding video game music on my Wii.

And 's Up b is silly. I can't even gimp him with bair's from .

I'm addicted to playing PM now. I hope this doesn't make me worse at brawl LOL. I guess it shouldn't since I'm not using in PM any longer.

 

[Burnsy]

I've been having a lot of fun killing off the top with Squirtle's up-b once I figured out that you just need to space for the last hit.

Squirtle for most consistently slept on character 2014 bby less go

 

[jtm94]

I wanna see the hitboxes on Mewtwo's upsmash because that thing eclipses him for no reason.

 

[Hylian]

That's not how things work. Back room members can be any of these qualifications for any BBR, MBR, SSBBR, or PMBR:

1. Big time theorycrafter and poster on smashboards
2. Top player
3. Has a specific set of skills (In the PMBR case I'm sure coding and programming merits this qualification).

You know the smashboards backrooms and the PMBR are completely different right? The qualifications for getting into a smashboards BR are also very different than getting into the PMBR considering the smashboards staff run the BR's here and the PMBR is their own thing on another website.

 

[ChristianStewarts#1fan]

taking 1 tourney's results as the be-all-end-all for skill is something one-hit-wonder players do lmao
keep trying kid. ive had top 8 placings at majors in this game for over a year, only done poorly at like two of them, one of which i was the main TO of so wasn't able to focus on my play. i'll mm your wolf for any amount

Daaaaang strong bad letting loose with that alpha male rage.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

plot twist: nothing has changed from brawl and mk, snake, and olimar are still stop tier

 

[Soft Serve]

He isn't even being creative with his names anymore. Whoever said it last time was right, trolls these days have zero stamina.

 

[XXXX1000]

i legit can't tell when y'all are popping off at each other, everyone's so quick to call each other bad and make mm challenges that y'all have lost sight of the true purpose of this topic, which is complaining about fox, falco and ivysaur

 

[Empyrean]

For his next account, I would recommend he go hang out on the Smash 4 boards a bit. You know, raise the post count, get some likes (they give likes there like candy, it's no joke), heck maybe even support a character, I don't know. Most important off all is to age that join date a bit, son. And be more subtle with the usernames, maybe "Da_lamp" or something? That way, you would seem more legit when you come to attack Strong Baddie again, and you might even have a chance to last more than 2 days.

On a more serious note, is it true that M2K's PMBR application was denied because of him not having a Wii?

i legit can't tell when y'all are popping off at each other, everyone's so quick to call each other bad and make mm challenges that y'all have lost sight of the true purpose of this topic, which is complaining about fox, falco and ivysaur

You forgot the 'rangs and Zelda.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Yoooo Zelda so campy the LGBT pride fest politely told her to please leave.

 

[Soft Serve]

Going to be honest, the only characters I feel bad for in the zelda matchup are bowser and MK. Poor MK, stupid god-tier sword priority can't clank with fireballs.

 

[Vashimus]

Zelda? More like Smelda.

FART. I smelda fart.

 

[br8k]

Going to be honest, the only characters I feel bad for in the zelda matchup are bowser and MK. Poor MK, stupid god-tier sword priority can't clank with fireballs.

I would expect that his nair can barrel through them, though? As a new Meta Knight main, I should know this. Must test this.

My gosh, it doesn't. At least I have Ike as a secondary.

 

[Seagull Joe]

For his next account, I would recommend he go hang out on the Smash 4 boards a bit. You know, raise the post count, get some likes (they give likes there like candy, it's no joke), heck maybe even support a character, I don't know. Most important off all is to age that join date a bit, son. And be more subtle with the usernames, maybe "Da_lamp" or something? That way, you would seem more legit when you come to attack Strong Baddie again, and you might even have a chance to last more than 2 days.

Wut.

 

[Empyrean]

Wut.

You might not have been here a while ago, but there's this one guy who's been making alt accounts just to come here(always in this thread) and tell everyone how they suck and that he's the best player in the world. Never fails to crack me up.

 

[Paradoxium]

One of these days an actual newcomer is gonna join this site, and we're gonna put his ass on blast because we mistake him for the troll lol

 

[Hylian]

One of these days an actual newcomer is gonna join this site, and we're gonna put his *** on blast because we mistake him for the troll lol

Nah, I've got the resources to always tell who he is regardless of him trying to switch his IP around.

On that note, lets get more on topic .

 

[Strong Badam]

On a more serious note, is it true that M2K's PMBR application was denied because of him not having a Wii?

It was the primary reason, yeah. Additionally, given his situation with regards to how much traveling he does, he wouldn't be able to playtest things discretely, among other things.

 

[SixSaw]

Going to be honest, the only characters I feel bad for in the zelda matchup are bowser and MK. Poor MK, stupid god-tier sword priority can't clank with fireballs.

People make way too big a deal out of the whole inability to clank with dins. It hardly matters when MK can keep Zelda under constant pressure easily. The MU is definitely in MK's favor.

 

[Fortress]

Tier discussion: John Stewart's #1 Fan confirmed for T-Tier. Too OP. Nerf plz.

Also, is there a tier list for 3.0 that's halfway reliable and generally agreed upon yet, or is the meta not developed quite enough for that just yet? Not sure what the general consensus is on tier placements, and if certain character placements are just agreed upon by everybody, like #1 or #41.

 

[Empyrean]

From what I gather, seems like Fox is still the top contender for the #1 spot for many, while I myself personally wouldn't say so. Lucas, Wolf and MK also tend to land in top tier. As for worst, people throw DDD and Dorf around more often.

 

[Archangel]

I think Ganon is closer to being overall worse than DDD.

 

[Fortress]

I can agree with the likes of D3, Diddy, and Squirtle being down there, but 'Dorf? Wasn't he top-tier in Melee? I can't understand why he'd be dropped down. He's still a top performer in my book. As for the other top tiers, I'd definitely include Fox/Falco, Lucas, Sheik, Pit, MK... you know what, I'll just compile what I feel is a close representation of a current tier list. I'm in no way saying I'm absolutely correct, but I'm hoping this is close to what some people have in mind for some characters.

1) Fox
2) Falco
3) Marth
4) Sheik
5) Pit
6) Meta Knight
7) Captain Falcon
8) Wolf
9) Lucas
10) Peach
11) Jigglypuff
12) Ike
13) Mario
14) Snake

15) Ganondorf
16) Luigi
17) Link
18) Ice Climbers
19)Olimar
20) Ivysaur
21) Samus
22) Roy
23) Zelda
24) R.O.B.
25) Zero Suit Samus
26) Mewtwo
27) Sonic
28) Wario
29) Donkey Kong
30) Toon Link
31) Lucario

32) Bowser
33) Pikachu
34) Mr. GnW
35) Diddy Kong
36) Charizard
37) DeDeDe
38) Squirtle

Placement's I'm unsure about: Yoshi, Kirby, and... I'm missing a character...

I'm sure a lot of those placements are probably incorrect to the general playerbase, but I'm hoping that a few of them are generally considered accurate as well.

Personally, I think I'd drop Peach down a few spots, move Bowser up a few.

 

[Terotrous]

I figure I've derailed this thread enough and I should actually give my tier list thoughts. Advance warning that this is probably a load of crap.

I figure this game probably has 5 tiers, but I think it's far too early to get that specific. I think we can only really get to about 3 groups right now, and even then it will probably still be bad.


Good Characters:

Mario - Mario is super solid. He has a varied toolset to deal with any matchup, and his versatility lets him exploit weaknesses in other characters.

Peach - Float gives her ways in against characters who otherwise control space really well. She also hits hard and is decently versatile.

Diddy Kong - Already great in Brawl, and remains good. Bananas are ace, and create problems for many characters. Aerials are solid. Recovery got buffed. Very solid character.

Link - PM fixed everything about Link that was bad, making him a very solid character now. His hitboxes link properly, giving him solid combos, and his projectile game is among the scariest in the game.

Fox - Lightning fast with power to match, with a solid distance game through lasers and reflector.

Falco - A bit slower than Fox, but his combos are even deadlier. Hard to say which is better overall.

Kirby - Kirby seems really good in PM. Fireball is nuts, his specials all got way better, and his improved airs restores his status as king of off-stage pursuit. I feel he completely eclipses Jiggs now.

Metaknight - Top tier in Brawl. Not substantially changed. Still has terrifying speed and priority. Not as dominant since others got better but still a serious threat.

Pikachu - Pikachu is easily the most consistently good character in the franchise, and remains so in P:M. He just has a great combination of speed, power, recovery, and combos with no real weaknesses.

Ivysaur - Ivysaur is a monster of stage control, with some of the most disgusting hitboxes in the game. Her combos also hurt like hell, and she can heal herself.

Mewtwo - The range on his tail is ludicrous for how fast those moves come out, giving him among the best footsies in the game. Great throws too.

Marth - Not changed much from Melee, but still has big combos and ridiculously early kills off tippers.

Lucas - Lucas is Space Animal #4, and he might well be the best of them. He's super fast, and he hits like a bus, god forbid when he's powered up. Amazing recovery too thanks to that tether.

ROB - I feel ROB is incredibly slept on. He has great mobility, damage, and stage control. Laser is a great projectile that has a million different uses, and the gyro is ez-mode edgeguarding. The fact that his already great aerials hit even harder when airdashing is just the icing on the cake.


Okay Characters:

Bowser - Bowser is clearly the best of the big heavy characters. He can take a beating and dish out the pain, and his armor can help him get in, but he's a huge target for combos so his strengths and weaknesses balance each other out.

Zelda - Zelda is fairly solid, she's got decent keep away and is also decent up close, but I feel that there are other characters, like Ivy, who are as good as she is at distance and are better melee fighters.

Sheik - Sheik is still fast and still has big combos, she's just kind of outclassed now because too many characters do what she does but even better. Loss of tether also hurts.

Roy - Roy is improved, but he still kind of feels like worse Marth. It's a simple fact that having the strong part of your attacks be on the end is superior, as Roy effectively has less range than his animations would suggest as the tip of his sword does no damage. His recovery is also absolute trash, and that's important in this game.

Ike - Ike is another character with strong upsides and downsides. He's slow and his moves have long startup, but QD helps him get in and when he gets in he hits like a tank.

Captain Falcon - Another strong upsides / downsides character. He's super fast, and if he gets in, you're dead. Unfortunately, it's hard for him to get in.

Olimar - I've slightly changed my opinion on Olimar, basically because I fought my friend's Olimar (who plays a very good Olimar in Brawl) and his stuff largely still works, it's just not QUITE as dominant anymore. I still believe Ivy is a better Olimar, so he will always be one tier less than Ivy.


Bad Characters:

Toon Link - In Melee, the good thing about Young Link was that he lacked the things that made Link bad. For example, many of Link's moves were multi-hit attacks that didn't link properly, so the fact that Young Link had one-hit attacks was superior. However, now that Link is fixed, TL is just an inferior Link with significantly lesser range. He is a little faster, but I feel like this doesn't really do him much good since his best way of getting offense started is still boomerang and Link does that just as well. I actually think the main problem with him is his atrociously short grab range. It's barely longer than most normal grabs yet recovers like 5 times slower. I think the key to him becoming good would be for his grab range to be greatly expanded, around where Samus's is. Then he could get a lot of grabs and start his combos up that way.

Ganondorf - Ganondorf is just fundamentally a bad character design. Falcon is balanced because while he has trouble getting in, but once he gets in, you die, and at least he's got super speed to help him out in that department. Ganon is Falcon minus the speed, so he has way more trouble getting in, and his damage output really isn't that much better even when he does get in. I really feel like he needs a replacement for neutral B, either to be a projectile or something else useful.

King Dedede - I can't totally put my finger on it, but something about Dedede just feels off. Sure, he's a ludicrously massive target, but he could usually work around that by staying back and chucking dees and only going in when necessary. Maybe the fact that characters can get around that better now is the problem.

Jigglypuff - Jiggs is just too one-dimensional to be good. In terms of regular and special attacks attacks, she's massively outdone by Kirby and Metaknight, her only saving grace is Rest and it's too risky and unreliable for her to be a solid character. I'm not really sure what to do with her, though I feel making Rest easier to land but have lesser payoff might be a good first step.

Mr. Game and Watch - Mr. Game and Watch is glacially slow, which is terrible in this game. Sure, he hits fairly hard, but so does half the cast and they have a much easier time landing a hit than he does. I really don't like the changes that were made from Brawl to PM for him.



Yes, no placements for like half the cast. I might give my thoughts on them and why I don't feel comfortable ranking them tomorrow.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Tink and Dedede are def not bad and should AT THE VERY LEAST be considered Okay.

 

[9bit]

I consider DDD to be solidly in the middle, possibly the upper part of the middle. He may drop down a bit in the future as people figure out how to deal with some of his really good jank.

 

[Ripple]

>Dedede get's top 8 at a big regional.

>goes down on people's list afterwords.

all according to plan

 

[Plum]

Going to be honest, the only characters I feel bad for in the zelda mahe tchup are bowser and MK. Poor MK, stupid god-tier sword priority can't clank with fireballs.

MK has ungodly mobility so he really shouldn't care about Din's Fire.

but 'Dorf? Wasn't he top-tier in Melee? I can't understand why he'd be dropped down.

He wasn't top tier in Melee. The current tier list has him placed 10th, but you could certainly argue that a character like Samus or Pikachu is more appropriate in that 10th slot (going strictly by tournament success you would see this at the very least).

@DDD being bottom
naaaaah
that's just people not seeing the light that he's surprisingly average