Tier List Speculation

[Ripple]

There is no difference with fox's up-air in PAL. how does this misinformation continue to spread? I thought that was taken care of when we had like 3 topics on what the differences are between versions

 

[Rᴏb]

Can't we nerf uair and say it was like that in PAL so people will whine 1% less

 

[NWRL]

The major things that were changed with PAL for Fox was Usmash nerf, Dsmash nerf, and Fire Fox is shortened.

All of which are agreeable and reasonable. If Sakurai thought to hit Fox in those areas I think the PMBR would be justified in doing the same

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Is your avatar Mc Ride?

I'm in your area son

 

[Armada]

c)Armada practiced PM a lot before Apex, as his main game

don't even have the game and haven't played much at all to be honest
PM is a easier version of Melee so being good in Melee is kinda broken in PM currently.

But the guy you respond to is clearly a troll so don't even bother =D

 

[GMaster171]

Haha alright, your performance doesn't show that

other points still stand, and its fun sometimes.

 

[Vashimus]

Armada confirmed broken by Armada himself.

 

[Kink-Link5]

don't even have the game and haven't played much at all to be honest
PM is a easier version of Melee so being good in Melee is kinda broken in PM currently.

But the guy you respond to is clearly a troll so don't even bother =D

Didn't you just recently purport against people that don't put in 4 hours of practice a day to execute properly?

 

[Oracle]

Yo my olimar is broken ill beat every ganon

Also Dankey kang? is SSS+ BROKEN tier

 

[batistabus]

I think DEHF @ Apex is a good indicator of far well people have taken their characters at this point. The Melee vets are clearly more developed, but a lot of Melee players don't do well in PM if they've never practiced it before. As someone who's put work into the game and is more familiar with the match-ups, despite not being a top Melee player, he was still able to make it very far in the tournament. Aside from understanding the basic functions and properties of moves, it seems very few PM players have taken their characters even close to where they could go (which is awesome).

 

[Deleted member]

PM is a easier version of Melee

If by "easier" you mean "better designed, more fair, more diverse, and superior in almost all areas that matter," then sure, I agree with you.

 

[DMG]

Maybe the man means easier, as in... easier?

 

[Hylian]

If by "easier" you mean "better designed, more fair, more diverse, and superior in almost all areas that matter," then sure, I agree with you.

Or he just means..easier..which it is.

I love that it's easier, one of the main reasons I play it so much.

 

[Vashimus]

The ability to customize your controls automatically makes P:M easier.

 

[DMG]

Fox is easier

OH GOD WHAT HAVE THEY DONE

 

[The_Altrox]

Or he just means..easier..which it is.

I love that it's easier, one of the main reasons I play it so much.

And I have no problem with that, personally. I think it combines the best aspects of Melee and *Gasp* Brawl. And a game can still be awesome, even if it's easier /more accessible. And the balancing aspect is great thus far.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't understand what people mean by "easier," which some might think has a negative connotation when it comes to competitiveness. All of Melee's advanced techniques are there, on top of some of the stuff that was in Brawl, and there are 3 times as many matchups to learn considering most characters are actually threatening in the right hands at this point.

...and that somehow equates to "easier"?

 

[The_Altrox]

I don't understand what people mean by "easier," which some might think has a negative connotation when it comes to competitiveness. All of Melee's advanced techniques are there, on top of some of the stuff that was in Brawl, and there are 3 times as many matchups to learn considering most characters are actually threatening in the right hands at this point.

...and that somehow equates to "easier"?

But it's not Melee

 

[Metazoa]

It actually is easier to execute things consistently in PM than Melee.
Like I've been trying to practice Melee after recently buying it again and I just... How did I play this so much as a kid? I don't understand how i thought it was easy to do things as a child when I can now barely do things now. Maybe it's just cause I'm trying to implement the advanced tech.

 

[Vale]

I don't understand what people mean by "easier," which some might think has a negative connotation when it comes to competitiveness. All of Melee's advanced techniques are there, on top of some of the stuff that was in Brawl, and there are 3 times as many matchups to learn considering most characters are actually threatening in the right hands at this point.

...and that somehow equates to "easier"?

The techniques are often easier to perform (e.g. not needing to jump-cancel running upsmash). Although there are techniques, there are not as many technical barriers.

 

[trash?]

it's not that PM is easier, it's that bull****ting is easier. melee in its early days had just about the same amount of gimmicks, but 2014 is explicitly pretty far away from the early days. new characters to play + new, relatively inexperienced players who didn't touch much of melee or brawl = new ways to bull****. things that aren't safe are always safe if you don't know how to punish them, after all

 

[52pickup]

So far, there are two things that I really like about Project M as of now, as opposed to Melee.

1. Actually being able to play Fox makes me feel good.
2. 5 letters are allowed in the nametag.

 

[Professor Pro]

After playing Snake for a little I have come to the conclusion that Professor Pro and Rolex are obscenely good at this game. Snake has some good defensive option (mostly cypher out of shield), but his approach game is relatively poor. His combo game is crazy, and he is able to kill the entire cast earlier than everybody in the game. Despite his weak approach, he's a very impressive character and i think putting him in the top 10 is perfectly reasonable.

I can't say anything about jiggs and olimar, I have no experience with him.

Only one person on that list applies to that statement.

Yes, the callout is real.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

A lot of techs and what not, are easier to perform in PM. That being said, the game is ez, compared to melee.

 

[trash?]

if only professor pro actually went out to APEX

you jerk >: (

 

[Empyrean]

As a 6-month PM-exclusive player, I definitely agree that PM feels easier. I recently played Melee with my friends for an entire day. I couldn't DD as consistently, it felt like my inputs weren't responding as accurately, it just feels generally more uncomfortable, for lack of a better word. Of course after a few matches I managed to adapt, but I wasn't feeling "at home".

 

[Vashimus]

Reasons P:M is easier than Melee:

• Customizable controls
• Constantly being updated and balanced
• The average character in P:M is much better than the average character in Melee
• Much larger stage selection making bans less impactful
• Grapples homing in on ledges rather than having to be aimed
• L-cancel flash after doing it successfully, making it easier to practice
• Certain techniques are much easier to perform such as short-hops and running up-smash

Anything else I can add?

 

[9bit]

Melee is strict to the point of exclusion for new players. You hear it all the time from commentators: nowadays it takes years of practice to break into Melee.

I prefer the inclusion that PM has. You can pick it up and get things done pretty quickly. There is still plenty of room to improve from there, which is wonderful, and it doesn't box you out right away like Melee.

 

[Empyrean]

L-cancel flash after doing it successfully, making it easier to practice

This is easily one of the best features in the game for someone trying to get better.

 

[9bit]

Reasons P:M is easier than Melee:

• Customizable controls
• Constantly being updated and balanced
• The average character in P:M is much better than the average character in Melee
• Much larger stage selection making bans less impactful
• Grapples homing in on ledges rather than having to be aimed
• L-cancel flash after doing it successfully, making it easier to practice
• Certain techniques are much easier to perform such as running up-smash

Anything else I can add?

Is "easier-to-perform-short-hop" still a thing? That 1-frame extra on jumpsquat animation?

 

[The_Altrox]

Melee is strict to the point of exclusion for new players. You hear it all the time from commentators: nowadays it takes years of practice to break into Melee.

I prefer the inclusion that PM has. You can pick it up and get things done pretty quickly. There is still plenty of room to improve from there, which is wonderful, and it doesn't box you out right away like Melee.

That's one reason why I like it. It has the style of Melee with the accessibility of Brawl imo.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, some techniques are easier, and being able to customize controls adds a level of comfort to playing that Melee lacked, but I think many of you are underestimating just how much more difficult it becomes to win when there are 40+ viable characters instead of, at most, 10.

 

[Jacob29]

It actually is easier to execute things consistently in PM than Melee.
Like I've been trying to practice Melee after recently buying it again and I just... How did I play this so much as a kid? I don't understand how i thought it was easy to do things as a child when I can now barely do things now. Maybe it's just cause I'm trying to implement the advanced tech.

I think you will find that is most likely due to the differences.

I can play Peach pretty fine in PM, but as soon as I go back to Melee the slight difference in dash timings always throws me off.

Those little timings are probably what makes it seem harder.

 

[Vashimus]

Is "easier-to-perform-short-hop" still a thing? That 1-frame extra on jumpsquat animation?

I'd put that under "easier to perform techniques" category.

Yes, some techniques are easier, and being able to customize controls adds a level of comfort to playing that Melee lacked, but I think many of you are underestimating just how much more difficult it becomes to win when there are 40+ viable characters instead of, at most, 10.

While this is true, in terms of getting started with competitive play, learning the fundamentals of the game and overall accessibility, P:M has Melee beat. Because of the 40+ viable characters, you're also not restricted on character choice like in Melee and gives you freedom to experiment, whereas in Melee picking anyone lower than Luigi in the tier list won't get you very far unless you're super good to begin with.

 

[Braggins]

Enlightened Tier:
Mario
The Enlightenment

Mid tier:
Bunch of characters

Strong Bad tier:
Ganondorf
Fox
Strong Bad

 

[deadjames]

I think you will find that is most likely due to the differences.

I can play Peach pretty fine in PM, but as soon as I go back to Melee the slight difference in dash timings always throws me off.

Those little timings are probably what makes it seem harder.

The thing that throws me off about Peach when I try to go back to Melee is that fact that her utilt is complete garbage.

 

[Jacob29]

The thing that throws me off about Peach when I try to go back to Melee is that fact that her utilt is complete garbage.

hah yeah I always end up trying to use it in Melee.

It seems to be alright against fast fallers as far as I knew.. but it's no way near as good as the love heart.

 

[Player -0]

You suggest that brawl was good for something!? Blasphemous! (JK)

I feel like a majority of the cast is viable but many players aren't picking them up and bringing them to the light.

 

[Rarik]

Yes, some techniques are easier, and being able to customize controls adds a level of comfort to playing that Melee lacked, but I think many of you are underestimating just how much more difficult it becomes to win when there are 40+ viable characters instead of, at most, 10.

I generally think (and would assume others who are saying P:M is easier would as well) that character matchups contribute to a game's overall skillcap rather than contributing to it's difficulty. In other words I think many people here are considering the skill floor rather than the skill ceiling when saying P:M is easier. Obvioulsy 40+ viable characters makes the game harder to master, but the changes already mentioned by people (1 frame easier SH, easier DD, etc) makes the game easier for a new player. So, basically P:M is easier to pick up and harder to master, and I think most of us can agree that that's a good thing.

 

[Jacob29]

You suggest that brawl was good for something!? Blasphemous! (JK)

I feel like a majority of the cast is viable but many players aren't picking them up and bringing them to the light.

Im trying with Boozer but man it can be hard in some match ups...