Tier List Speculation

[Deleted member]

personally i'd like to see a hype-ass mario vs DK or something like that.

SB is a big boy I'm sure he can defend the merit of his character on a children's video game forum without help lmao

 

[Strong Badam]

This Enlightenment guy is my favorite person on Smashboards right now.

 

[BJN39]

So yeah, watching the videos of Sethlon's Roy, me gusta /butchered that

To me, Roy looks like he could be pretty good. It looks like he gets whooped by Marth tho...

 

[Oro?!]

I love me some Fox. I don't know why all of PMBR gets lumped together.

 

[Ogopogo]

Nothing wrong with megaman either man i dont judge your avatar you shouldnt judge mine, and fyi megaman is rumored to be in smash 4. Hyyyyype

gg

 

[GP&B]

I've been laughing the entire time T_E added that MM avatar. Everything about the MM cartoon reminds me of the Restupurae of it.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I came here to read some speculations of a supposed tier list of a game called project m. I'm partially disappointed because what I just read was at least pretty funny.

But anyway, can you guys discuss about characters and their tiers again? Thank you.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

OH MY GOD.

I actually laughed when he said Mario looked Athletic

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

10/10
Would fap to again

 

[Sashimi]

Papa+Stone: Mario/Doc player
This guy: Mario/Doc player
Could be a coincidence, though. This new guy isn't nearly as funny.

In any case, I feel like we shouldn't feed the troll.

Actual tier list-related post:

Sethlon makes Roy look very solid. I think he (Roy) is an interesting case, though. One one hand, Roy has some silly powerful attacks, so at noob level, I think Roy would seem really good. I've definitely seen people pick Roy for teh lulz and get quick kills because the opponent can't space.

But Roy also seems to get punished very hard, so in legit tournament play, you'd have to be consistently good in the neutral to win. Congrats to Sethlon for doing this. In most of the sets I saw on stream, your opponent looked totally baffled, and you really made the character look solid.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Papa+Stone: Mario/Doc player
This guy: Mario/Doc player
Could be a coincidence, though. This new guy isn't nearly as funny.

In any case, I feel like we shouldn't feed the troll.

It's not trolling though! It took countless hours to articulate the true meaning behind said enlightment, but by strong bad's hairless chiny chiny chin, we've got the answer. It's the 20xx factor.

 

[Metazoa]

So yeah, watching the videos of Sethlon's Roy, me gusta /butchered that

To me, Roy looks like he could be pretty good. It looks like he gets whooped by Marth tho...

Roy really needs to be upclose for his attacks to reach their top efficiency. I've also noticed that Roy's falling speed is higher than Marth's (matching Melee, I guess).
Because Marth's attacks are better when spaced so that the tip of the move connects, Marth has the advantage in that, even while their moves are very similar, Marth's moves can be used at a "safer" distance with more power. Meanwhile, the tip of Roy's swords is made of aluminum, so it won't be able to get kills or start any significant worries until much higher percentages compared to Marth.

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

Papa+Stone: Mario/Doc player
This guy: Mario/Doc player
Could be a coincidence, though. This new guy isn't nearly as funny.

In any case, I feel like we shouldn't feed the troll.

Actual tier list-related post:

Sethlon makes Roy look very solid. I think he (Roy) is an interesting case, though. One one hand, Roy has some silly powerful attacks, so at noob level, I think Roy would seem really good. I've definitely seen people pick Roy for teh lulz and get quick kills because the opponent can't space.

But Roy also seems to get punished very hard, so in legit tournament play, you'd have to be consistently good in the neutral to win. Congrats to Sethlon for doing this. In most of the sets I saw on stream, your opponent looked totally baffled, and you really made the character look solid.

A troll? Would this face lie to you.

 

[Thor]

My computer is messed up or this forum just teleported through time because I read the same series of posts twice except with a StrongBad post in the middle.

And some people say SWF is lame. They should use my time-traveling computer.

Also I would trust T_E about as far as I can throw him. Currently I don't even have a way to grab or pick him up. That's my opinion though.

Also yeah Kirby is good in PM (or not terrible). One person I was playing swears that at the right percents you can juggle certain characters by just dash-attacking back and forth. I did something similar but they missed techs so I don't know if it's true or not (I for sure linked two together where they didn't hit the ground, but that's hardly useful).

Also Olimar would be better if his whistle still super-armored stuff.

And where is Giga Bowser on the tier list?

 

[MLGF]

If Giga Bowser could be grabbed, there would be legitimate debates on his status as viable, I swear there would.
Actually... could someone go Sopo in a tournament? I mean I realize it's totally unviable, but the player can use him if desired correct?

 

[Sashimi]

Sopo
I mean I realize it's totally unviable

Anything is possible.

#SOPO

 

[NeonApophis]

Kage got knocked out of apex by neon's lucas iirc. Ganon just loses the neutral game against so many characters, its hard for me to see him as even with most of the cast.

Kage actually went Marth and Captain Falcon against me after I told him that I play Lucas. It seems like he would agree about Ganon's neutral game issues, since he didn't want to even attempt that match up.

 

[HRR2b23]

Man, I came here looking for post-APEX tier discussion and all I got was a **** waving contest and the only actual discussion was some talk about inhale.

Oh, and #SOPO

 

[Hylian]

Kage actually went Marth and Captain Falcon against me after I told him that I play Lucas. It seems like he would agree about Ganon's neutral game issues, since he didn't want to even attempt that match up.

Whens the next big tournament you'll be at and would you be willing to do a $50 money match Lucas vs Link?

 

[jtm94]

T_E made some strongly valid and invalid points. One of the biggest things I disagree with is that Mario's uair is absolutely amazing. You literately can combo(not DI read) across ANY level with uair juggles and go into whatever you want to end with.

Also, I enjoy characters based on how they play, I could care less how they look.
There are quite a few tech heavy characters in PM, but I guess those are overlooked.
He talks about how he wants characters to feel like how Melee played, when he is only talking about 2-4 characters in Melee, while the rest all played derpy or gimmicky.
I do not deny playing against people who play Fox/Falco. I actually enjoy it. They're very solid, but they can be beaten.
People do quit this game when they find something too good. I've seen people quit over Kirby's new dash attack, and Falco lasers. I absolutely can't stand someone who can't take a loss, the only issue is that PM turns salt into a finger pointing game towards attacks that are good or useful and need nerfed.

Back on topic
Does no one see how good Kirby's dash attack is? I haven't played him against a slew of characters, but you can dash dance for days, then punish with dash attack which sets up perfect for utilt, grabs, ANYTHING. It even sets up for FSmash. It can't be crouch cancelled or grabbed by average or less grab ranges either. And clanks with most all grounded attacks because the front is disjointed. Kirby is mad easy to do janky stuff with at the moment. I just want to know if I'm the only one who feels this sentiment.

Roy
A few people I know have picked up Roy and I didn't notice how good he was, but he has tons and tons of combos. dtilt is an amazing option out of crouch cancel and links to fair. fair links to fair. Ftilt reaches SO far and can KO floaties at semi-high percents. Has a strong meteor. And he has an awesome dash dance game.

The only downside to this guy versus Marth to a slight extent is that Roy gets punished pretty hard for whiffed attacks. If you whiff and miss an l-cancel a single attack knocking him off the stage can pretty much seal the stock. He just doesn't do well off stage. He's falls faster than MArth and can't stall as long or jump as high so he is forced to recover into various subpar circumstances. Marth at least had the option to stall below the ledge a bit before returning. At least Roy's UpB reaches in front of and above him enough to make his recovery "more safe."

Squirtle
Been playing this guy and he has really weird tech skill, but he can do awesome things and has some good gimps whether it be fair, bair, or Down B. USmash is also incredible. MY biggest gripes and the areas that need improving/balancing are that the attack/jump out of Side B should be able to be held backwards to shorten how far he jumps out of it. The move would be considerably more useful, but not broken if the distance could be altered to an extent to reach the ledge, or not suicide by flying off the stage a fixed distance. The same goes for UpB. The fact that UpB cannot be directed back and goes a set distance make sweet spotting the ledge a pain and he gets KOd/slapped out of the air SO EASILY. Just those things alone make him more viable in my eyes. His air movement could be better and the end lag on side b's ending if you don't hit anyone could be shortened. Regardless, as he is, I don't see why he gets so much hate aside from losing to sworded characters.

 

[NeonApophis]

Whens the next big tournament you'll be at and would you be willing to do a $50 money match Lucas vs Link?

I'm not really sure what tournaments I'll be at in the near future (or even what tournaments are happening), but I'd be down to money match you whenever the opportunity arises. I would only want to do $50 if I had time leading up to the tournament to get into practice, but I would do at least $20 regardless of how prepared I am.

 

[Braggins]

The Enlightenment is one of the most brilliant trolls ever. I can't stop laughing at this thread.

 

[Metazoa]

Does no one see how good Kirby's dash attack is? I haven't played him against a slew of characters, but you can dash dance for days, then punish with dash attack which sets up perfect for utilt, grabs, ANYTHING. It even sets up for FSmash. It can't be crouch cancelled or grabbed by average or less grab ranges either. And clanks with most all grounded attacks because the front is disjointed. Kirby is mad easy to do janky stuff with at the moment. I just want to know if I'm the only one who feels this sentiment.

I'm not entirely sure how many people stuck with Kirby around release time. I hear that many who do opt to use this dash attack, so they know it's real good. Interestingly enough, the most notable Kirby player I've seen so far is Chu Dat, and he barely uses it at all.

I think you can maybe CC the first 2 hits and then shield if you get tapped by it. Try that.

Roy

A few people I know have picked up Roy and I didn't notice how good he was, but he has tons and tons of combos. dtilt is an amazing option out of crouch cancel and links to fair. fair links to fair. Ftilt reaches SO far and can KO floaties at semi-high percents. Has a strong meteor. And he has an awesome dash dance game.

The only downside to this guy versus Marth to a slight extent is that Roy gets punished pretty hard for whiffed attacks. If you whiff and miss an l-cancel a single attack knocking him off the stage can pretty much seal the stock. He just doesn't do well off stage. He's falls faster than MArth and can't stall as long or jump as high so he is forced to recover into various subpar circumstances. Marth at least had the option to stall below the ledge a bit before returning. At least Roy's UpB reaches in front of and above him enough to make his recovery "more safe."

Yeah, Roy has lots of combos and can rack up damage quickly.

I think he has a bit of trouble with being combo'd himself. I know sometimes I can rack up 60+ percent against my brother when we play and I get a good hit in.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

How to deal with kirby's dash attack, what I've found useful, is to spotdodge and then punish once he passes through. I mean it's still a good move, but it's not quite as invincible as some people make it out to be.

 

[NWRL]

How to deal with kirby's dash attack, what I've found useful, is to spotdodge and then punish once he passes through. I mean it's still a good move, but it's not quite as invincible as some people make it out to be.

Is your avatar Mc Ride?

 

[Toxicroaker]

My tier list... This is probably extremely inaccurate.

S
Fox
Falco
Snake

A+
Mario
Marth

A
Mewtwo
Pit
Roy

A-
Sheik
Jigglypuff

B+
Kirby
Wolf
Link
Meta Knight

B
Captain Falcon
Peach
Yoshi
Wario
Ike

B-
Samus
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Lucas

C+
Luigi
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus

C
Ganondorf
Diddy Kong

C-
Bowser
Dedede
Charizard

D
Lucario
Zelda

E
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness

F
Sonic
Donkey Kong
Toon Link
Olimar

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

My tier list... This is probably extremely inaccurate.
C
Ganondorf
Peach
Diddy Kong

What

C-
Zero Suit Samus
Bowser
Dedede
Charizard
Ivysaur

What

D
Lucario
Meta Knight
Zelda

WHAT

 

[Toxicroaker]

What



What



WHAT

Um... Do you think they should be higher or lower? It was a rough draft, and I was uneasy about all of the ones that you pointed out. I also don't know much about any of the characters that you pointed out except for Charizard.

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

Um... Do you think they should be higher or lower? It was a rough draft, and I was uneasy about all of the ones that you pointed out. I also don't know much about any of the characters that you pointed out except for Charizard.

Most of those chars bar charizard are extremely solid and at one point or another have become infamous for being "cheap" or "badly designed" or "op". They all should be higher except charizard which I know nothing about
-filling in for my bro lordling I gotcha covered dude

 

[The_Altrox]

Didn't M2K say recently that PM Fox isn't good (compared to the rest of the cast) and that he's only doing well (tourneywise) due to the amount of Fox players from Melee and the small sample size? I know his word isn't necessarily gospel or anything, but...

Where does Ganondorf sit atm? I like him, but he comes off as super midtier at best.

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

Didn't M2K say recently that PM Fox isn't good (compared to the rest of the cast) and that he's only doing well (tourneywise) due to the amount of Fox players from Melee and the small sample size?

Where does Ganondorf sit atm? I like him, but he comes off as super midtier at best.

Thats sounds about right, all of these salty pm nerds like strong bad keep nerfing fox into the ground out of spite but melee players tend to be better players than brawl nerds and its why you see so many fox players making it to finals most of the time. Armada is a melee player too but he decided he just wasnt going to tolerate the fox nerfs and played an easymode brawl character instead, and look where that got him with almost no hours of practice. I guarantee no brawl player like strong bad or eli or reflex would be capable of doing that despite the brawl pm newcomers being easymode scrub cannons. If pm fox was in melee he wouldnt be any better than mid tier, probably where ganondorf sits on the tier list

 

[MLGF]

I fail to how Meta Knight could be anything but top 10. He's just a powerhouse.

 

[The_Altrox]

Watch how you use the term "Brawl nerd" in comparison to the Melee players, bro. I happen to like both games a lot.

I don't mind Fox getting nerfed to everybody else's level, but I don't think that he should be "nerfed into the ground" either. On the other end of things, I don't think he should be purposely made to be the top character either, just out of the love he gets in Melee. In short, I'd like the game to be balanced as much as possible, and this game gives it a chance more than Melee with it's awful bottom tier.

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

T_E made some strongly valid and invalid points. One of the biggest things I disagree with is that Mario's uair is absolutely amazing. You literately can combo(not DI read) across ANY level with uair juggles and go into whatever you want to end with.

Also, I enjoy characters based on how they play, I could care less how they look.
There are quite a few tech heavy characters in PM, but I guess those are overlooked.
He talks about how he wants characters to feel like how Melee played, when he is only talking about 2-4 characters in Melee, while the rest all played derpy or gimmicky.
I do not deny playing against people who play Fox/Falco. I actually enjoy it. They're very solid, but they can be beaten.
People do quit this game when they find something too good. I've seen people quit over Kirby's new dash attack, and Falco lasers. I absolutely can't stand someone who can't take a loss, the only issue is that PM turns salt into a finger pointing game towards attacks that are good or useful and need nerfed.

Back on topic
Does no one see how good Kirby's dash attack is? I haven't played him against a slew of characters, but you can dash dance for days, then punish with dash attack which sets up perfect for utilt, grabs, ANYTHING. It even sets up for FSmash. It can't be crouch cancelled or grabbed by average or less grab ranges either. And clanks with most all grounded attacks because the front is disjointed. Kirby is mad easy to do janky stuff with at the moment. I just want to know if I'm the only one who feels this sentiment.

Roy
A few people I know have picked up Roy and I didn't notice how good he was, but he has tons and tons of combos. dtilt is an amazing option out of crouch cancel and links to fair. fair links to fair. Ftilt reaches SO far and can KO floaties at semi-high percents. Has a strong meteor. And he has an awesome dash dance game.

The only downside to this guy versus Marth to a slight extent is that Roy gets punished pretty hard for whiffed attacks. If you whiff and miss an l-cancel a single attack knocking him off the stage can pretty much seal the stock. He just doesn't do well off stage. He's falls faster than MArth and can't stall as long or jump as high so he is forced to recover into various subpar circumstances. Marth at least had the option to stall below the ledge a bit before returning. At least Roy's UpB reaches in front of and above him enough to make his recovery "more safe."

Squirtle
Been playing this guy and he has really weird tech skill, but he can do awesome things and has some good gimps whether it be fair, bair, or Down B. USmash is also incredible. MY biggest gripes and the areas that need improving/balancing are that the attack/jump out of Side B should be able to be held backwards to shorten how far he jumps out of it. The move would be considerably more useful, but not broken if the distance could be altered to an extent to reach the ledge, or not suicide by flying off the stage a fixed distance. The same goes for UpB. The fact that UpB cannot be directed back and goes a set distance make sweet spotting the ledge a pain and he gets KOd/slapped out of the air SO EASILY. Just those things alone make him more viable in my eyes. His air movement could be better and the end lag on side b's ending if you don't hit anyone could be shortened. Regardless, as he is, I don't see why he gets so much hate aside from losing to sworded characters.

Btw im not sure if anybody is aware of this but docs up air is better than marios in every way amd anybody who says otherwise is an occupy wallstreet reddit hipster thats trying to corrupt you

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

Watch how you use the term "Brawl nerd" in comparison to the Melee players, bro. I happen to like both games a lot.

I don't mind Fox getting nerfed to everybody else's level, but I don't think that he should be "nerfed into the ground" either. On the other end of things, I don't think he should be purposely made to be the top character either, just out of the love he gets in Melee. In short, I'd like the game to be balanced as much as possible, and this game gives it a chance more than Melee with it's awful bottom tier.

He was already nerfed into the ground, where have you been for the past 6 months? His shine and lasers are nearly useless because some people just cant figure out that fox has several weaknesses other than being susceptible to chain grabs. Also its not like hes god tier either, where have you been for the past 12 years? Its already been established that fox is no better than any other top tier and it took a mango for him to win at evo. His national tournament record is far less impressive than you people would expect it to be. You all will always be nerds in my eyes when your leader is strong bad, the king of all nerds

 

[GMaster171]

Thats sounds about right, all of these salty pm nerds like strong bad keep nerfing fox into the ground out of spite but melee players tend to be better players than brawl nerds and its why you see so many fox players making it to finals most of the time. Armada is a melee player too but he decided he just wasnt going to tolerate the fox nerfs and played an easymode brawl character instead, and look where that got him with almost no hours of practice. I guarantee no brawl player like strong bad or eli or reflex would be capable of doing that despite the brawl pm newcomers being easymode scrub cannons. If pm fox was in melee he wouldnt be any better than mid tier, probably where ganondorf sits on the tier list

a) The only thing different 'nerfed' about PM fox is laser decay and 1 frame of shine.

b)Reflex began in Melee, and both SB and Eli were/are long time, well known Melee players

c)Armada practiced PM a lot before Apex, as his main game

d)PM Fox would be strictly better than Melee Fox, due to easier usmash/SHDL and RAR. The laser decay doesn't really matter as it just takes longer overall to camp (or he could just abuse his normal strategies anyway), and the 1 frame shine invincibility rarely influenced things anyway. If it wasn't in the changelog I doubt many people would have noticed it.

 

[NWRL]

List of characters that should be S tier and why

Captain Falcon: Manliest character in the game, gives no ****s, has a gun and doesn't even bother using it because he's not a lil furry ***** like Fox/Falco/Wolf

Ike: Sword the size of a small planet, and he swings that **** with one hand.

Zero Suit SamASS: Ass for days

Ganondorf: Literally Nintendo's version of Satan

DONG KONG: Expand dong and can grab you from across the stage

Diddy Kong: Monkey business like no one's business

If you disagree you're a ****n nerd lol

EDIT:

Need to add Snake in here, he's fighting you and lung cancer at the same time, if that's not manly enough I don't know what is

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

a) The only thing different 'nerfed' about PM fox is laser decay and 1 frame of shine.

b)Reflex began in Melee, and both SB and Eli were/are long time, well known Melee players

c)Armada practiced PM a lot before Apex, as his main game

d)PM Fox would be strictly better than Melee Fox, due to easier usmash/SHDL and RAR. The laser decay doesn't really matter as it just takes longer overall to camp (or he could just abuse his normal strategies anyway), and the 1 frame shine invincibility rarely influenced things anyway. If it wasn't in the changelog I doubt many people would have noticed it.

Lol thats what strong bad wants you to believe you sheep. At this point its obvious youre either trolling or wasting my time with poorly articulated responses so if you have nothing good to say why dont you take all of your trash arguments and "counter points" to the smash 4 forums? Youll find plenty of that over there, trust me, but we pmers conduct ourselves better than that, mind you.

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

List of characters that should be S tier and why

Captain Falcon: Manliest character in the game, gives no ****s, has a gun and doesn't even bother using it because he's not a lil furry ***** like Fox/Falco/Wolf

Ike: Sword the size of a small planet, and he swings that **** with one hand.

Zero Suit SamASS: *** for days

Ganondorf: Literally Nintendo's version of Satan

DONG KONG: Expand dong and can grab you from across the stage

Diddy Kong: Monkey business like no one's business

If you disagree you're a ****n nerd lol

Judging from those character choices this is probably one of strong bads alts or spy drones, dont waste my time nerd

 

[NWRL]

Judging from those character choices this is probably one of strong bads alts or spy drones, dont waste my time nerd

Sounds like we have ourselves a buttmad furry. Yiff in hell nerdlord buttsniffer