Tier List Speculation

[Oro?!]

Roy though...

 

[Viceversa96]

rob is not even close to top tier. hes gimmicky as hell and has very few solid strategies that work consistently. if you can outplay your opponent with mobility tricks with side b (which basically no rob players besides myself and bstuk do) then thats pretty good, except the rewards all the other characters get for doing that is much higher.

You sure? I could have sworn Jcz places really high with ROB a lot. Especially at S@X

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You sure? I could have sworn Jcz places really high with ROB a lot. Especially at S@X

Are you referring to the weeklies where they have about 8 people playing PM?

 

[Viceversa96]

Are you referring to the weeklies where they have about 8 people playing PM?

Still plays well. I don't see him spamming moves or one approach. Jcz works with ROB for every opening, approaches differently, and uses every tool ROB has. Watch his match vs. Redd who is a really good Falco. That set was amazing.

 

[Juushichi]

You sure? I could have sworn Jcz places really high with ROB a lot. Especially at S@X

JC is probably the best placing ROB for sure. However, he doesn't use much of Side-B at all (which Oracle was alluding to). I think even he shares the same general opinion that ROB isn't the best. I think this is a very good case of a mid-tier character doing well in a region. JC did pretty good in the exhibition at APEX 2013 and at some EC large events last year, but we'll see if he and his character hold to the test this weekend.

Let's also see if he plays all-ROB as well, as he is known to play other characters.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Still plays well. I don't see him spamming moves or one approach. Jcz works with ROB for every opening, approaches differently, and uses every tool ROB has. Watch his match vs. Redd who is a really good Falco. That set was amazing.

I don't spam the same moves or approaches over and over again either, but if I played against top level players, I'd still get smacked. Jcz isn't terrible or anything, but if you put him in a room with players who are really good, he'll suddenly stop winning. I'm sure he'll beat plenty of people while he's there, but I don't see him making top8. Not in a bracket that stacked.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

APEX 2014 PM hype?

 

[Viceversa96]

APEX 2014 PM hype?

Yes! Can't wait.

 

[GMaster171]

have a tier list. comment on it or don't, I don't really care.

S-tier
Fox
Shiek
Falco

A-tier
Meta Knight
Wolf
Ivysaur
Snake
Wario
Marth
Pit
Mario
Zero Suit Samus
Lucario
Peach

B-tier
Jigglypuff
Bowser
Zelda
Charizard
Falcon
Ike
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Link
Toon Link
ROB
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Ganon
Ness

C-tier
Squirtle
G&W
Sonic
Pikachu
King DeDeDe
tiers are somewhat un-ordered, as putting characters in specific places is hard and i didn't want to spend hours on this.

 

[MVP]

rob is not even close to top tier. hes gimmicky as hell and has very few solid strategies that work consistently. if you can outplay your opponent with mobility tricks with side b (which basically no rob players besides myself and bstuk do) then thats pretty good, except the rewards all the other characters get for doing that is much higher.

i read this and what comes to mind after is the memories of JC sweeping everyone week after week on stream at Smash at Xandu.

EDIT: doesn't mean he's top tier, just means he's damn good in the hands of JC

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I mean, I won many events with 2.1 Wario, but that doesn't mean he was better than bad.

Everyone's still in the process of learning the game. You have to be forged in an awful lot of fire in order to really show your character's worth.

 

[Nausicaa]

Not much happened to Wolf since 2.1, and he's had the same 'bottom tier' to 'top tier' transition that Wario has had in the general public's perspective, when Wario had obvious mega-buffs to go along with it.
People would do well if they practiced learning, it's fun and funny.

 

[Oracle]

jcaesar is also about twice as good as the next player at those weeklies. rob takes a while to get used to, but once you see past the tricks hes pretty easy for a lot of characters to shut down. he does punish pretty well, so if you make a lot of mistakes a rob player can capitalize, but at high level play people don't leave themselves as open

 

[ELI-mination]

umm, about jcaesar...
- Yes, he's good
- Yes, he generally plays people who aren't good
- Sometimes he plays good people and still beats them

conclusion: he's pretty good

this has been some wisdom from the #bookofeli

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

Spoiler

A++ Tier
Fox - Definitely better than majority of the cast. If it wasnt for his combo weight and his recovery i think this character would be S Tier level.

A+ Tier - Really good, not like fox, but extremely solid. I think alot of characters should be balanced to this level
Shiek
Falco
Wolf
Peach
Wario - wtf is good with side - b?
MK
Mario

A Tier - Also good, but lacking a little something ( like a move or two) which keeps them barely out of the top tier.
Snake
Ivysaur
Zero Suit Samus
Marth
Pit

B Tier - By this tier, order is really varied IMO, however i think if played to their potential i feel like no one will beat diddy in this tier.
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Ness
Falcon
Charizard
Ike
Donkey Kong
Link
ROB
G&W
Jigglypuff - I feel Ivysaur and the versatality of his Bair pretty much made him unnecessary
Sonic
Luigi - An insane amount of kill moves, but his neutral just hardly gives him the chance to get in
Squirtle
Zelda
Ganon
Pikachu - If QAC was expanded more as a movement option, i think she will become really close to the top.
Bowser - Good at what he does, but what he does is extremely gimmicky.

C Tier - I just feel these guys are under-developed. Esp. TL. 2.6 link just makes him feel unnecessary.
Toon Link
King DeDeDe

My pre BH3 tier list. Like most I will do a post BH3 / pre Apex tier list. Then a post Apex

 

[trash?]

so if JCz is gimmick fluke man with gimmick fluke character, does that mean every win he's had against every other big player was just a happy side-effect

 

[Scythe]

yo two of my fav characters (DDD and TL) are on the bottom of everyone's list lol. I'd try to open some eyes at Big house but i'll prolly just play wolf lawl

 

[metroid1117]

yo two of my fav characters (DDD and TL) are on the bottom of everyone's list lol. I'd try to open some eyes at Big house but i'll prolly just play wolf lawl

Destroy peeps in friendlies .

 

[Scythe]

i wander around too much at tournaments lol. never get any friendlies done

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone thinks TL is bottom 5
Stahp guys

 

[CyberZixx]

Hey link is not bottom 5 to me. He is bottom 6.

 

[esoterics]

I'll refrain from posting my list until after BH3. I'll be interested to see what new characters the participants bring to the table. I hope we see more Non-Melee mains though. It's far more entertaining to watch.

 

[metroid1117]

I'll refrain from posting my list until after BH3. I'll be interested to see what new characters the participants bring to the table. I hope we see more Non-Melee mains though. It's far more entertaining to watch.

I'll be using Charizard; Rat and Scythe will be using Wolf; Hammertime, Oracle, and Calabrel will be using Lucas (although Calabrel might pull out Ness too), and Strong Bad might pull out the Wario against unsuspecting Melee vets .

 

[jayeldeee]

Roy though...

Is boss? Yeah, I know.

I don't remember, but is Big House 3 going to be streamed or no?

 

[Zwarm]

yo two of my fav characters (DDD and TL) are on the bottom of everyone's list lol. I'd try to open some eyes at Big house but i'll prolly just play wolf lawl

And my main (Squirtle) is also near the bottom of everyone's lists. Guess I'll just have to show everyone at TBH3 that Squirtle isn't bottom 5.

Also your DDD is free

 

[B.W.]

yo two of my fav characters (DDD and TL) are on the bottom of everyone's list lol. I'd try to open some eyes at Big house but i'll prolly just play wolf lawl

I miss T.Link dittos.

 

[Oracle]

Yall arent ready for my secret weapon for big house

 

[DMG]

Secret weapon: Cory's swagged out arm bands

 

[Oracle]

im pretty sure if i tried to wear them they would reject me for not being classy enough

 

[DMG]

They look like they could strap a man to the electric chair

 

[| Kailex |]

Gory in the house "im your man *awkward smile*"

 

[Archangel]

new type of list

spacie tier

1.Fox
2.Falco
3.Wolf/Lucas(tied)
5.Ness

yeah this has Lucas/Ness in it and ness plays...well closer to a 64 spacie then anything but...eh I think he's the worst of this group anyway but....onward!

Mario universe tier

1.Mario/Wario(how fitting, rivals and tied first best in the tier)
3.Bowser
4.Peach
5.Diddy Kong(Though he isn't in anything mario related - smash, he's part of DK's universe which so...)
6.Donkey Kong
7.Luigi
8.Sonic(he was at the olympics so..)

Pokemon Tier

1.Ivysuar
2.Squirtle
3.Jigglypuff/Pikachu
5.Charizard
6.Lucario


Legend of Zelda tier

1. Sheilda(theoretical because so far nobody plays both characters at the highest known level, However should it be possible at some point then Sheilda is in her own tier within the tier)

1.Sheik
2.Link/Zelda(I do believe Link is overall better than Zelda now, However Zelda can transform into #1 in the tier...so)
4.Ganondorf
5.Toon Link(At the end of the day it's just easier to win with everyone else than it is with Toon link. Although, I think part of it is his combo weight being perfect for 90% of the cast. That and alot of his best moves have too much startup, or...maybe it's because he's a toon. Honestly I have no clue why TL doesn't do as well he just doesn't)

We have rep tier - more than 1 character from this universe in the current build

1.Marth
2.Metaknight(Potential for #1 but not there yet imo, With more development who knows?)
3.Ike
4.King DDD

We fly solo tier - only character from their universe in the current build

1.Snake/Pit(Snake Pit..that's AWESOME!)
3.ZSS
4.Captain Falcon - (lack of 100% Melee physics is sorta holding Falcon back IMO. He can't be played like Hax Falcon and that's why I've got him below ZSS. His fluidity isn't up to par for some odd reason. He feels stiff and blocky in spots but it's improving from build to build.)
5.ROB - kind of a 1 trick pony character but his 1 trick is pretty good and hard to stop.
6.Mr.G&W - meh...

 

[esoterics]

I don't remember, but is Big House 3 going to be streamed or no?

I'm pretty sure VGBC is streaming it.

 

[KayB]

A Fox won't make Top 8 in BH3. You heard it here first.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

new type of list
Legend of Zelda tier

1. Sheilda(theoretical because so far nobody plays both characters at the highest known level, However should it be possible at some point then Sheilda is in her own tier within the tier)

1.Sheik
2.Link/Zelda(I do believe Link is overall better than Zelda now, However Zelda can transform into #1 in the tier...so)
4.Ganondorf
5.Toon Link(At the end of the day it's just easier to win with everyone else than it is with Toon link. Although, I think part of it is his combo weight being perfect for 90% of the cast. That and alot of his best moves have too much startup, or...maybe it's because he's a toon. Honestly I have no clue why TL doesn't do as well he just doesn't)

If we haven't seen someone play at the highest level (which assumedly implies switching between Sheik and Zelda when most appropriate), how would we know that the boosts that good Zelda play brings to the table would be enough to put her in her own tier of goodness, even among the relatively crappy LoZ cast? That certainly didn't happen in Melee.

 

[Archangel]

If we haven't seen someone play at the highest level (which assumedly implies switching between Sheik and Zelda when most appropriate), how would we know that the boosts that good Zelda play brings to the table would be enough to put her in her own tier of goodness, even among the relatively crappy LoZ cast? That certainly didn't happen in Melee.

That didn't happen in melee because Melee Zelda is terrible tier. This version of Zelda significantly better and I don't think Zelda's max potential has been shown yet. Still, Assuming you have an Armada type Zelda player who's just so good it makes you go WTF, Combined with a Sheik of Ice/m2k level then that kind of person is just hard to beat. As for not playing 1 the whole time? You could do that especially with sheik and be fine but then there comes counterpicking. The psychological strain of picking a stage vs someone who's good with both Zelda/Sheik is horrific.

If you play a light floaty character vs Sheik on a small stage, Yoshi's for example and you lose. Then you counterpick DL64 for high ceiling and they switch to Zelda...it's like....bro...**** you!

 

[CORY]

im pretty sure if i tried to wear them they would reject me for not being classy enough

hey man, just let me know if you need to borrow them : p

 

[DMG]

HE CAN'T CONTAIN THE BEASTS KNOWN AS YOUR 'BANDS

 

[metroid1117]

A Fox won't make Top 8 in BH3. You heard it here first.

I don't know, SFAT is pretty amazing at Smash in general even if he might not have the match-up experience.

 

[Deleted member]

based on m2k's posts, i wouldn't actually expect his sheik to be that good in PM, at least relative to his expected output.