Tier List Speculation

[DMG]

If Reflex is going, I think he would win or get second. How beat Wario, Melee man asked? *stock gone*

 

[metroid1117]

If Reflex is going, I think he would win or get second. How beat Wario, Melee man asked? *stock gone*

Reflex isn't going, but Strong Bad has a nasty Wario.

 

[DMG]

I know. I had to feel it in pools at LTC, gave up first seed to his fat butt

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Reflex isn't going, but Strong Bad has a nasty Wario.

I have no plans on going this year, anyway, but things might change as the days become numbered.

I'm a dangerous dude, though, regardless.

 

[DMG]

Watch out, he'll shank ya

 

[Viceversa96]

That didn't happen in melee because Melee Zelda is terrible tier. This version of Zelda significantly better and I don't think Zelda's max potential has been shown yet. Still, Assuming you have an Armada type Zelda player who's just so good it makes you go WTF, Combined with a Sheik of Ice/m2k level then that kind of person is just hard to beat. As for not playing 1 the whole time? You could do that especially with sheik and be fine but then there comes counterpicking. The psychological strain of picking a stage vs someone who's good with both Zelda/Sheik is horrific.

If you play a light floaty character vs Sheik on a small stage, Yoshi's for example and you lose. Then you counterpick DL64 for high ceiling and they switch to Zelda...it's like....bro...**** you!

That's why I believe Zelda and Sheik should be seperated.

 

[DMG]

Nobody is at that level though. Sheik's overall better and more capable: you'd be better off pouring 100% of your time into being best with Sheik than some hybrid

 

[jayeldeee]

Nobody is at that level though. Sheik's overall better and more capable: you'd be better off pouring 100% of your time into being best with Sheik than some hybrid

Or Zelda if you don't like ninjas.

 

[KayB]

based on m2k's posts, i wouldn't actually expect his sheik to be that good in PM, at least relative to his expected output.

One of M2K's largest flaws is his confidence.

 

[GHNeko]

Nobody is at that level though. Sheik's overall better and more capable: you'd be better off pouring 100% of your time into being best with Sheik than some hybrid

Disagree. There will be MUs that Zelda is better at. There will be players that kill accurately and frequently with zelda, but rack up damage better with shiek.

There are all types of players. So sleeping on Sheilda is one of the silliest things you can do.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DMG]

I'll sleep on it, and watch Sheik mains do better (or Zelda mains).

 

[NeonApophis]

Some notes:

• I think S Tier very likely has the correct top 4 characters, but the order isn't clear at this point. Any of them could easily turn out to be the best.
• Divisions between tiers are pretty arbitrary, but I tried to split them where I perceived a larger gap in character strength.
• My certainty regarding the placement of the characters generally decreases as you move down the list. I'd consider everything below A Tier highly questionable, because most of them have less tournament exposure (in 2.6b) and I just find it more difficult to evaluate differences between more mediocre characters. Of course the metagame is barely starting to develop, so there's a decent chance that any given placing is incorrect.
• A (?) indicates that I am particularly unsure about that character's placement because I have not seen much footage of the character and/or have little experience playing as or against that character. (??) is just for Squirtle because I have hardly any idea how he will end up being played once his metagame develops (but obviously I question his long term competitive potential since I put him in such a low spot).
• Toon Link needs to be buffed.

S Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Lucas
4. Wolf

A+ Tier
5. Sheik
6. Peach
7. Ivysaur
8. Marth
9. Charizard

A Tier
10. Snake
11. Meta Knight
12. Pikachu
13. Wario(?)
14. Ness
15. Mario

A- Tier
16. Ike(?)
17. Pit
18. Jigglypuff
19. Captain Falcon
20. Lucario
21. Ganondorf
22. Game and Watch

B+ Tier
23. Zelda
24. Bowser(?)
25. Dedede
26. Zero Suit Samus(?)
27. ROB
28. Diddy(?)
29. Luigi
30. Donkey Kong

B Tier
31. Link(?)
32. Squirtle(??)
33. Sonic(?)

C Tier
34. Toon Link


Our Boy
Roy

 

[KayB]

After seeing a lot of these tier lists, everyone seems to have a good idea who's in S - A tier. B - C/D Tier no one can come to a conclusion.

 

[lami]

Our Boy
Roy

Our Boy tier -> S -> A -> B -> C

 

[CyberZixx]

Mario is way better than Pikachu.

 

[Plum]

I disagree with Roy's placement. Our Boy tier is too low. He's at least t3h ph1r3 tier.

 

[\Apples]

Sonic in B tier... aksdbajshbcuahbscasd no.

A grieving pat on the shoulder for everyone who places Bowser anywhere above bottom tier. When you're older, you'll understand.

 

[DMG]

Bowser is fantastic I dunno what you are talki- OH GOD HE JUST GOT GRABBED

 

[Vashimus]

Just because Bowser has nowhere to go but down doesn't mean he's terrible right now.

 

[DMG]

I remember when Bowser was #1 in tournament results

 

[KayB]

I remember when Bowser was #1 in tournament results

Who's #1 now?

 

[Oro?!]

<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Vashimus]

Fokkusu of course.

We need more Meta Knights.

 

[DMG]

Is fox actually #1 in results? He wasn't even top 3 for awhile during the reign of Bowser

 

[KayB]

I remember Weon-X winning I think a Canadian tournament (I think it was a regional) where he beat Hammertime in GF. Other than that, the last time I remember seeing a Fox place high was Mango in BH2.

 

[trash?]

M2K has... I believe only two tournaments he's entered that he lost

one was a S@X monthly w/ chillin's wolf winning, the other was, ofc, the wizzrobe train of pain and inevitable nerds

 

[Rarik]

M2K has... I believe only two tournaments he's entered that he lost

one was a S@X monthly w/ chillin's wolf winning, the other was, ofc, the wizzrobe train of pain and inevitable nerds

Yeah but this time Hbox is there, and how many sets has M2K won against HBox?

 

[KayB]

My ideal Grand Finals would be Hungrybox (W) vs Mew2King (L) where Jason loses the first two games, but makes a three game comeback. Then HBox wins one game, then Mew2King, then HBox again, then Mew2King, and the last stock Mew2King's at like 150% and Hbox is at 90%. If Mew2King ever wins against Hbox, this HAS to be the set-up.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Really? Wouldn't that be the exact same thing as a Melee Grand Finals...?

That seems so boring, considering the vast number of new characters and strategies available in PM. Nothing wrong with Melee play, but, why play PM if your gameplay ideal is the exact same as was in Melee?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

That's very oddly specific.

 

[Hylian]

Reflex I'm curious about your speculation about tiers . List gogo.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Really? Wouldn't that be the exact same thing as a Melee Grand Finals...?

That seems so boring, considering the vast number of new characters and strategies available in PM. Nothing wrong with Melee play, but, why play PM if your gameplay ideal is the exact same as was in Melee?

New matchups to learn
New stages
New metagame even with the same gameplay
Its a good sign if Melee vets are doing well with their Melee characters how well emulated the game is

Off the top of my head.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

New matchups to learn
New stages
New metagame even with the same gameplay
Its a good sign if Melee vets are doing well with their Melee characters how well emulated the game is

Off the top of my head.

Well, yeah; I get that, but, I still don't see why a matchup we've seen many times over is the most anticipated PM-related showdown he can think of.

Reflex I'm curious about your speculation about tiers . List gogo.

Maaaaaaan, I don't even know. Juushichi asked me for a Top 8 list a while back and I pulled something out of my ass. I can do that and then be a naysayer for characters that people think are much higher than I feel they are.

In no particular order between each other: Falco, Fox, Ivysaur, Marth, Meta Knight, Peach, Pit, Sheik, Wario, Wolf. Mobility is the name of the game, as always. The number of options covered by all these characters in most situations, particularly in neutral, is pretty astounding. I waver a little on Pit and Meta Knight (but not that much), and I wish I knew more about 2.6 Diddy so I could give him a fair shake.

Snake isn't that great, Squirtle is garbage, Toon Link is better than the average list makes him out to be (bomb options are sooooooo good even if a good chunk of the rest of the character isn't), Sonic's still above-average, and Jigglypuff is mediocre.

 

[KayB]

Really? Wouldn't that be the exact same thing as a Melee Grand Finals...?

That seems so boring, considering the vast number of new characters and strategies available in PM. Nothing wrong with Melee play, but, why play PM if your gameplay ideal is the exact same as was in Melee?

I was actually referring to a Melee Grand Finals. For a second I forgot that I was in the Project M section hehehe

 

[Hylian]

Well, yeah; I get that, but, I still don't see why a matchup we've seen many times over is the most anticipated PM-related showdown he can think of.



Maaaaaaan, I don't even know. Juushichi asked me for a Top 8 list a while back and I pulled something out of my ***. I can do that and then be a naysayer for characters that people think are much higher than I feel they are.

In no particular order between each other: Falco, Fox, Ivysaur, Marth, Meta Knight, Peach, Pit, Sheik, Wario, Wolf. Mobility is the name of the game, as always. The number of options covered by all these characters in most situations, particularly in neutral, is pretty astounding. I waver a little on Pit and Meta Knight (but not that much), and I wish I knew more about 2.6 Diddy so I could give him a fair shake.

Snake isn't that great, Squirtle is garbage, Toon Link is better than the average list makes him out to be (bomb options are sooooooo good even if a good chunk of the rest of the character isn't), Sonic's still above-average, and Jigglypuff is mediocre.

Top 8 is pretty easy I feel though, I want to know what you think of other characters . What about bottom 8?

 

[RPGsFTW]

I never ever see Pits played, though I heard Armada played Pit once and was amazing, so why is he rated so highly all the time?

Apparently, he isn't even an interesting character, or fun to play, I'd guess, since I don't see him anywhere. Please link me vids of great Pit players otherwise though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ganondorf, ROB, Dedede, Squirtle, Zelda, and Ness all come to mind. Might be a bit too hasty on Ness, but I'm not that doubtful. Luigi is probably on the high end of this bottom-8, but I feel he's probably too limited to do a whole lot against many of the high tiers. Jigglypuff might be down there somewhere, too (I'm really not impressed with her in this game). G&W is probably better than all of these characters, but not a great deal higher...

Ganondorf and Squirtle are probably bottom-2. Badness for great justice.

I think that people who are used to listing the same characters in the bottom since, like, 2.1, are not far off, but we've seen a lot of changes since then. I'm just not sure that many of them are the kinds of changes that make them relevant in competitive play, mostly because of what competitive play revolves around. :/

 

[Oro?!]

When the squirtle champion rises from the ashes, I will look down and smile.

 

[Nausicaa]

Mobility is the name of the game, as always. The number of options covered by all these characters in most situations, particularly in neutral, is pretty astounding.
Sonic's still above-average.

If that's the case, Lucas?

Good!

Wario - wtf is good with side - b?
Jigglypuff - I feel Ivysaur and the versatality of his Bair pretty much made him unnecessary
Luigi - An insane amount of kill moves, but his neutral just hardly gives him the chance to get in
Pikachu - If QAC was expanded more as a movement option, i think she will become really close to the top.

C Tier - I just feel these guys are under-developed. Esp. TL. 2.6 link just makes him feel unnecessary.
King DeDeDe

I've been kind of half-joking about Dedede being the worst from 2.1 day 1, as I simply seem him being limited and that it has to potential of crushing him in the long-run.
Though everyone else seems to have him low too recently...

Is there anyone that still thinks Dedede is beast, and is there any reference I can see/watch/read to study?
Been asking for a while, but nobody has answered... Checked the 'best of each character' thread and nothing unexpected or interesting outside of re-confirmation of this.
Any insight please?

Side-B is sexy on the ground, the crouch-cancel aspect in 2.5 made it (and him overall due to other things too) amazing, then shortening the air version to a snipe-kill/combo/pressure tool made it amazing for even more.
I like how you call Pika a she and Jiggs a he, I do it opposite...
Ivy is a she too, just because!
I understand how people think Luigi has a bad neutral, but it's definitely not 'actually 'bad, it's just thought that way. It's also good that it's 'bad' since he'd be broke with that ToD easy-mode stuff if he could land hits easy-mode too.

I don't know, SFAT is pretty amazing at Smash in general even if he might not have the match-up experience.

He didn't do well at all at Canada Cup (very recent) but yeah he's pretty solid, wouldn't count any somewhat-solid Fox out of PM stuff.


Grabbing Bowser is fine, but hitting him in the face is fine too.
Nothing he can do.
I want him to have an earlier jump-cancel window on his grounded-invincible Down-B...
That would be SO fun![/quote]

 

[jayeldeee]

Wait, why is Lucas in S-tier?

And Vashimus, you must really like avatars with big nungas, don't you?