Apparently, I don't follow the stuff that shows Snake and Lucas placing very high. Someone send me links to some of these videos of them doing so well.
SNAKE
Rolex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmT2LIoZnGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1uUpWuPe94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRSHSmBPQLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eahAdxj2xCk
Raziek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE1loZ_7hiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKALXkG_oUY
Not even sure where the Professor Pro vids are located...I'll dig later but it's generally accepted that Professor pro is #1 so yeah...this is probably the number 2/3 snake....assuming there aren't more. There are other people who've done well with Snake as well just..look it up.
LUCAS
Hammertime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3o1EKf1Udg
Oracle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG9NdalSJTg
I'll dig for more 2.6 Lucas later.
@DMG Let me first start by saying you've got a very valid argument. I too wasted my time playing Mario/Doc in Melee for about 4 years so I know your pain. At the same time let me state that I was not ever as good as Shroomed and I don't think you were either. Not an insult to either of us but just keeping it real.
To say that being average at an aspect of the game means you aren't going to be near or at the top is invalidated by Marth's existence. He's a Character who at one point was tied for number 1. Some players like Armada and Mango maintain the controversial belief that Marth is still top 1-3. Marth has really good range but he's got no 1 frame attacks, no spam-able pressure attacks, and the closest he comes to a lingering hitbox is his down-b. On top of that he's got not projectile at and resorts to having to dodge, counter, block, clank, catch, or powershield projectiles being launched at him. In spite of his now glaring disadvantages this character managed to be tied for 1st place. That being consider it's not to much of a stretch to say a character that's about as good as he is yet more well rounded couldn't be number 2 or maybe even tied for number 2.
As for his grab game - What Mario can do
IS improved for a few reason. #1 he's got doc's Fair so he can kill from his grabs now. #2 he's got a buff disguised as a nerf to his Uair, Less knock back means more 0-death per cast member and it's also easier to do on characters that are lighter/have more air mobility. Another thing you have to realize is even if his grab game isn't amazingly improved Sheik, Formally the queen of grabs in Melee has been dethroned. Leaving characters like Mario and Ganondorf as the best grabbers per cast member in the game. The difference is Mario is way less limited compared to Ganondorf who's still big and slow and lacks a projectile or a solid combo game. In a sense, the 1 OP'd type thing that mario has are his grabs. Even if Melee sheik was better it no longer matters in PM.
Approaching is a bit extreme for Mario I agree but he's got a much better approach game with the chop to his fireball endlag. I'm not sure if you are aware of it but Mario can now Full hop-fireball and do an attack/waveland/anything before touching the ground. Explore this new aspect and you'll find that he's got much less of a problem approaching than you might think. The thing about this game is that CC'ing in general seems to be improved which hurts him along with everyone. It's like everybody is melee samus or something I'm not sure what that is about. Still, As long as you don't air out random Aerials you should do fine. Not to mention if you use his Fair like Falcon's Stomp against someone who tries to CC you it puts an end to that problem pretty fast. As for your Ike example, Good luck approaching Ike? Good luck approaching Mario you mean. On a stage like...idk Pokemon stadium. with the fireball walls and B-reversing and caping around how the heck is ike going to approach Mario in anyway other than reckless? Fireballs aside Mario's cape beats everything but Nair. Ike can't get in position to hit you without you seeing it coming years away. So you are forced to try to space a fair and hope you hit Mario and then follow up. Otherwise you got 2 choices. Lose fast or lose slow.
@Bruce Lee
I've seen very good lucario's play since 2.0 up until now. As good as some committed players are I don't see them winning a major event with Lucario ever. Not even placing top 8. If you had 100 PM tournaments the size of EVO in a row I'd be willing to bet my life a Lucario wouldn't place top 8 in ANY of them. Can he be played better, yeah, does he have good MU's, yeah...can he be placed higher than bottom? sure....but right now he's in a bad spot and considering that he was bad in 2.5 and in 2.6 he's still bad...it leads me to believe that for some reason he's gonna remain this way. Meanwhile alot of the characters he was better than have improved. You could argue he's better if you want. I could even move him several spaces higher and he'd still be bad.
Lucas has being S-tier and better than Sheik/Marth isn't only a theorycraft conclusion it's...a logical conclusion as well as just a matter of time. Marth/Sheik have history where as Lucas is just starting to make his mark. However, Lucas is the single most technical character in the game. I don't mean he requires the most technical skill in the game. I mean he's got the DJC techskill as well as the everything into down-B techskill that fox/falco/wolf have AND he's got a SUPER powerful Dacus that he can actually combo into. He's got dangerous grab range, can combo from grabs, and he can kill you by pressing up after getting a grab. I might not be the one to do it but...It won't be long before a few good men(like the ones I posted) start putting this together and what you'll have is a combination of Peach, Fox, and a few completely new things can't possibly end up being terrible. Now...what I'm doing could be called "jumping the gun" but I would rather be known as one of the people who were ahead of the times than a late mover. Like the people who didn't get how good Sonic was until the End of 2.5b.
So...don't call it insane. Radical/Controversial makes more sense.
