Tier List Speculation

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

To be honest i made most of my Ivy exp. before 2.6, but i think ivy's kind of a niche character that counters some but gets owned by many others

She might be better than B tier though, i agree

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Dude no more tier lists please,it makes people play characters they aren't satisfied with and project m is balanced.

This is kind of the tier list thread though. It's where you should most expect....tier lists.

 

[-Se7en-]

That's why I posted here...

 

[-Se7en-]

...What?

People view tiers lists to see what character they want to play for tournaments or just competitive play

 

[PrincessAzula]

To be honest i made most of my Ivy exp. before 2.6, but i think ivy's kind of a niche character that counters some but gets owned by many others

She might be better than B tier though, i agree

Playing against Ivy in 2.6b is pretty much comparable to playing against a brick wall that can heal itself.

 

[Juushichi]

People view tiers lists to see what character they want to play for tournaments or just competitive play

Why is this a bad thing all of the time?

Some people might get scared off of like... GnW or Pikachu in favor of like Marth/Sheik, but this is not always the case. In fact, why people stick to a character is entirely arbitrary. It's hard to really call why and a lot of the reasons blend into each other.

Some characters don't get a lot of investigation. Why? Some are just unpopular. Some aren't very good. Some don't have very good players playing them. You never really know.

 

[-Se7en-]

LMAO^ it reminds me of training mode and resetting health

 

[-Se7en-]

Why is this a bad thing all of the time?

Some people might get scared off of like... GnW or Pikachu in favor of like Marth/Sheik, but this is not always the case. In fact, why people stick to a character is entirely arbitrary. It's hard to really call why and a lot of the reasons blend into each other.

Some characters don't get a lot of investigation. Why? Some are just unpopular. Some aren't very good. Some don't have very good players playing them. You never really know.

It's not always a bad thing but one thing I don't like (I do play high tiers) is the fact that some very talented low tier or mid tier mains can't win because others have "gimmicks" that best theirs.

 

[DMG]

Ivysaur is like a brick wall, with your youngest child strapped to a ticking clown bomb on the wall, that if it goes off, will mentally scar the kid for life and make them sad. Then your wife leaves you, and you spiral out of control until you wake up half naked in the Mojave desert with $20 and a turkey thigh in your pocket.

That's what playing neutral against Ivy feels like. Don't get me started on the feelings of anguish and unholiness that occur if you get HIT.

 

[-Se7en-]

Basically - I am 50/50 on tier lists : meaning I do like them but don't.

I pick a character that I like from the tier list and find out which one I am talented with,since tier lists are to show the viable characters in tournaments,correct?

One thing I don't like is some people use the highest tier possible and excel with then (I do and I am basically not proud of it).

To simplify tier lists make people like me.

 

[-Se7en-]

Ivysaur is like a brick wall, with your youngest child strapped to a ticking clown bomb on the wall, that if it goes off, will mentally scar the kid for life and make them sad. Then your wife leaves you, and you spiral out of control until you wake up half naked in the Mojave desert with $20 and a turkey thigh in your pocket.

That's what playing neutral against Ivy feels like. Don't get me started on the feelings of anguish and unholiness that occur if you get HIT.

dafuq

 

[Nausicaa]

Nobody likes playing AS or AGAINST Pikachu. At least not decently, and not many... no matter how awesome he may be.
Luigi is lame too, who wants to 1-shot everything and feel awkward/non-smashing doing it?

 

[Gallo69]

Here's what I think atm.

S
Fox

A
Falco
Peach
Sheik
Wolf
Bowser
Marth
Mario
Snake
Ivysaur
Wario
Ike
Lucario
Zelda
Jiggz
Link
ZSS
Metaknight
Pit
Rob
Zard
Lucas
Falcon
GnW
Toon Link
DK
Ness
Ganon
Pikachu

B
DDD
Luigi
Sonic
Squirtle


For now, I can realistically see any character winning a tournament. We'll see how the metagame evolves, but right now I think Fox is better than everyone else.

 

[PrincessAzula]

Ivysaur is like a brick wall, with your youngest child strapped to a ticking clown bomb on the wall, that if it goes off, will mentally scar the kid for life and make them sad. Then your wife leaves you, and you spiral out of control until you wake up half naked in the Mojave desert with $20 and a turkey thigh in your pocket.

That's what playing neutral against Ivy feels like. Don't get me started on the feelings of anguish and unholiness that occur if you get HIT.

..I love being an Ivysaur main.

 

[DMG]

If you go to tournaments, you go to win. If you picked up Sheik because she was rated high, played her for 3 months, and could beat any of my characters without trying, then congrats to you. I wouldn't get salty and think "If only we had put Pikachu ahead of her, he woulda been boned!"

I don't see the problem with tier lists and having people that "***** them". If anything, they breed bad players who think just because they picked the best character they will win. Those kind of people probably would look for whatever minute advantage they could get, instead of getting better fundamentally as a player.

Nobody likes playing AS or AGAINST Pikachu. At least not decently, and not many... no matter how awesome he may be.
Luigi is lame too, who wants to 1-shot everything and feel awkward/non-smashing doing it?

I'm OK playing against Pika if I have the right type of character to do it. Like Martha or Sheik. If they aren't shrek5000/Axe level, it doesn't make me wet my pants

 

[Nausicaa]

Here's what I think atm.

A
Luigi
Sonic
Squirtle

B
DDD

FIXED!

 

[PrincessAzula]

Tier list

Is that Zelda in......mid tier?

I could marry you.

 

[Juushichi]

I enjoy playing GnW vs Pika, by the way.

I also enjoy playing Game and Watch.

Oh god.

I'm a monster!

(Also, I think Zelda is a mid-tier character.)

 

[Deleted member]

zelda feels so MU specific that it's annoying. can you camp zelda? good MU. can zelda camp you? bad MU. feels bad, makes me want to throw needles for 7 minutes.

 

[DMG]

^^^^^

TL:DR

Why the **** would anyone willingly play Zelda. It's frustrating trying to do things with her to good characters.

 

[Juushichi]

Which is basically how Zelda feels playing against you.

Are you better at camping than me? Oh boy, I guess I'll drink my own piss. Let me space toes for X minutes and pray.*
Are you not better at camping than me? HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUHEUHUEHUE.

*Or transform into Sheik.

 

[DMG]

Plz transform into Sheik. I'd rather lose to that than beat "YOU GOT CLOSE TO ME HOLY **** SPAZ OUT ON B"

On the subject of Ivysaur, I'm starting a petition to have her canned. Literally.

I want her cut up and destroyed for some little kid to begrudgingly eat his veggies.

 

[Nausicaa]

I enjoy playing GnW vs Pika, by the way.

I also enjoy playing Game and Watch.

Doesn't count then.
There are SOME people who like Zelda.
Fewer like Pika, and usually those who do, don't play against very good people AS Pika OR play against people who are not very good with Pika.

Zelda is cool, her grab is funny.
Down B is cool on Sheik too. There, I said it!

 

[PrincessAzula]

Doesn't count then.
There are SOME people who like Zelda.
Fewer like Pika, and usually those who do, don't play against very good people AS Pika OR play against people who are not very good with Pika.

Zelda is cool, her grab is funny.
Down B is cool on Sheik too. There, I said it!

I love Zelda but the moment she comes up in a thread is usually people come in and complain about her and her antics, making people who like her (and use her) feel bad for liking her.

That's Smashboards for you, eh?

 

[Juushichi]

I just came back from the Brawl Tier List thread. Jesus Christ what a terrible place. I'm glad you guys are here.

anyway, uh. you can kinda say that with a lot of things/characters. But yeah, some people like some things. Some people like animals in a very uncomfortable way for me.

Zelda is a polarizing character. This is okay, imo. Maybe air b -> ground b is not an okay thing. I like Zelda though, I think she's mid tier.

Probably better than Ganondorf.

RIP Gerudos.

 

[Plum]

Sheik's Down B is like literally there for the sole purpose of taking out all of the fun in the game.
And the sad part is that you have to ask yourself, why use Sheik's Down B when you can just pick Ivy to be even better at having no fun?

I totally recognize that I don't like overly defensive characters.
And then Wobbles makes me feel bad for not liking overly defensive characters.
http://www.compete-complete.com/2013/08/why-we-prefer-aggression-defense-of.html
But seriously. Playing against them is like playing against .

 

[Juushichi]

I think Zelda is more enjoyable of an interaction, in playing as and against than Ivysaur ever was, but what do I know?

I live in Ohio.

 

[Plum]

Precisely. Ivy is better at having no fun.

 

[Nausicaa]

I love Zelda but the moment she comes up in a thread is usually people come in and complain about her and her antics, making people who like her (and use her) feel bad for liking her.

That's Smashboards for you, eh?

Why is this? I love fighting good Zelda, and people love fighting my Zelda. (partially because they have practice against a good Zelda and my Sheik is scarier to them, but still)

Sheik's Down B is like literally there for the sole purpose of taking out all of the fun in the game.

It's a different kind of game, so I don't see what you mean. "Puff dittos rock." < "Puff dittos suck." < That kind of thing going on?

Zelda is a polarizing character. This is okay.

Yayaya

 

[KayB]

Whatever the case, I refuse to believe that DDD is low tier.

 

[DMG]

*Fly Amanita comes in* "Broheim, he's low tier"

*BLASPHEMY I SAY!*

 

[Nausicaa]

*Fly Amanita comes in* "Broheim, he's low tier"

*BLASPHEMY I SAY!*

Does Fly think he's 'bad(ish' or something?

 

[DMG]

I don't think so. Just posed that as a "what if"

NO CASE WOULD CHANGE MY MIND!

*Best player of the character steps in*

Son he's dookie pants

 

[PrincessAzula]

http://www.compete-complete.com/2013/08/why-we-prefer-aggression-defense-of.html

Good read, thanks!

Why is this? I love fighting good Zelda, and people love fighting my Zelda. (partially because they have practice against a good Zelda and my Sheik is scarier to them, but still)

This I don't know. All I do know is that the people I frequently play with absolutely dread my Zelda. And then you come onto the Project M boards and the complaining about her is almost always present (not as prevalent as people complaining about Ivy though......just lol)

I think she's really fun to play as and there is a lot more to her than just hurling fireballs around and throwing out a few special moves.

 

[DMG]

If Zelda wants to have fun and approach with Nair and not play lame wall stuff, yeah it's a blast. Play against a guy that will try to lightning kick you at any %.

People that don't make Zelda fun: playing her the "correct" way where you try to stuff whatever the other guy does and be a patient little Princess, and press B anytime you are in trouble.

I don't play Zelda because I zap the fun out of the room with everything I go for. Offense and defense, I whip out my fondue especial and literally slather cheese everywhere. It's horrifying.

Ivysaur zaps the fun out worse, because baiting Ivysaur ain't that easy to accomplish. If Ivy whiffs Bair, probably isn't going to engulf phallus-tier punishment for it. Zelda can at least die with Smash/B/Tilt spam if she's not careful.

 

[Nausicaa]

None of the local Zelda's use fireballs much... or Teleport, or Down B, but sometimes LOVE.
We all love grab though.
Maybe Zelda's who focus on setting up grab-traps (everyone expects the hits, who grabs?) are funner?
Grab more. <Lesson for every one and every character, special for Zelda?

 

[DMG]

That's janky stuff. Set up fireball in some conspicuous location, "TIME TO APPROACH HER WITH MY UAIR" said the Fox, got grabbed and GG'd to death.

That's literally what I picture nearly everytime Fireball --> Grab stuff goes on.

Zelda should probably grab less unless she has the GG ready out of it like Uthrow to combo or Bthrow edgeguard, because her other responses cover her better. Like if we replaced 60% of B moments, with grabs instead, she would be boned a lot more imo. Stuff like pivot grab is underrated but she's fairly immobile and that's kind of awkward to toss into say a DD or random neutral situation.

 

[Plum]

I hope you bring crackers to go along with your cheese DMG.

 

[Crescent Monkey]

My friend who I play somewhat regularly picked up the campiest Mario in existence as a secondary, so after getting frustrated and not having any fun during our matches, I switched to Zelda and outcamped him for 8 minutes several times in a row. Ever since then, his Mario got more aggressive and our matches are much more fun. Props to Zelda

 

[DMG]

I hope you bring crackers to go along with your cheese DMG.

I do. The stale ones from Summer of 2004, so stale and dry that the salt sprinkled on them is the biggest source of moisture. You bite down in agony, reminded "this is the terror of Zelda"