This is dead, look for the new matchup thread. Be sure to read the rules.

[fawfulrenosmash]

I'll post this again here for good measure:

Versus King Dedede

King Dedede leaps up during his dthrow. If you plant a landmine on one of the lower platforms on Battlefield, King Dedede will not be able to chaingrab you because they will get hit from the landmine. This allows you to camp with nades and save you from being gimped.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

ive tried that........but when they got closer to the platform and theyve got me grabbed they just throw me to the mine >.>

 

[Shady Penguin]

ive tried that........but when they got closer to the platform and theyve got me grabbed they just throw me to the mine >.>

Precisely why claymore prevention doesn't get you far. If you try planting one on the ground instead, he'll just chain grab you into it.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

i like claymore on the ground better, id rather go up from getting hit by my own mine than getting cg'd to the edge and edgeguarded


what about stages? what should be banned and counterpicked?

 

[fawfulrenosmash]

Delfino Plaza is obviously one of the stages you shouldn't choose.

In my opinion, Smashville is the best neutral stage for Snake versus King Dedede because Smashville has less width than Battlefield and Final Destination, meaning you'll get chaingrabbed less and for such a small stage you can drop gernades to control it and guess where King Dedede rolls to punish him.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

smashville is actually shorter than bf??? wow i legitimately didnt know that

 

[Midnight702]

Hello fellow Snake mainers
Wouldnt Lyat be a good stage against D3 ?
Im guessing the curves on the stage will alow you to get away from his CGs with a roll, jab, jump, etc.
And sense theres alot of things going on in the bkground, it can distract him from mine nade or c4s on the platforms

I usually pick Lyat for a cp over at AiB

 

[abit_rusty]

Perhaps Brinstar or Norfair? Lava = anti-chain grab...and irregular ground on Brinstar as well.

 

[Midnight702]

Perhaps Brinstar or Norfair? Lava = anti-chain grab...and irregular ground on Brinstar as well.

But those arent those banned stages?

 

[abit_rusty]

But those arent those banned stages?

Excuse me, I am really out of the brawl scene and I had the inclination that they were legal counterpicks. >.>

 

[Midnight702]

****, my bad

 

[SamuraiPanda]

How the hell is DK listed as 5 star difficulty... And Pikachu is only 4 stars? There are some problems in these matchups...

Also, Brinstar is generally legal everywhere while Norfair is legal in some regions and banned in others.

And as for D3, he rips into Snake. Snake's Dair is your best friend in this matchup. Every time D3 lands on the stage with his up-B, thats a free Dair. Whenever he rolls into you, thats another free Dair. The Dair also frequently shieldpokes because D3 is so large. Also, grab him before he grabs you. Then back or forward throw him to keep him in the air, and you can either choose to litter explosives around yourself or try to juggle him. The choice is situational, and just a personal decision. Also, watch out for D3's inhale. An unusually effective anti-Snake strategy for D3 is to use the inhale near the edge (while you're both on the stage), then turn around and spit Snake over the edge. Follow up with plenty of Bairs and Snake can take massive amounts of damage before you even realize it.

 

[Karmacide]

Perhaps Brinstar or Norfair? Lava = anti-chain grab...and irregular ground on Brinstar as well.

I've never considered Norfair against D3. I should try it!

 

[SaltyKracka]

I've never considered Norfair against D3. I should try it!

I suggest you don't. Attacks on Norfair are largely either vertical platform pokes or from the air. And neither of those are situations in which Snake excels. It's almost as bad as Rainbow Cruise for Snake. At least, that's my analysis.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Why has the OP never changed the MK matchup? It's an even matchup not a hard matchup for Snake, its misleading.

 

[abit_rusty]

Why has the OP never changed the MK matchup? It's an even matchup not a hard matchup for Snake, its misleading.

I was on hiatus and did not write the GaW and MK matchups. Also, the MK matchup isn't even slightly in MK's favor? You say it so plainly that it's even.

 

[Ken Neth]

IMO MK has the advantage. MK can gimp snake SO easy. If anyone plays a meta that knows what he's doing they'll see what I mean. Once you're off the edge (unless you are really high) you are dead if the meta doesn't mess up. I can't even count how many times i've been thrown off the stage at under 40% and gimped. I've tried everything lol. Once you're off the stage you're dead. (MK is pretty much the only character I play against besides tourneys)

This match-up is going through a lot of debate though, so it'll go either way depending on who you talk to.

 

[abit_rusty]

IMO MK has the advantage. MK can gimp snake SO easy. If anyone plays a meta that knows what he's doing they'll see what I mean. Once you're off the edge (unless you are really high) you are dead if the meta doesn't mess up. I can't even count how many times i've been thrown off the stage at under 40% and gimped. I've tried everything lol. Once you're off the stage you're dead. (MK is pretty much the only character I play against besides tourneys)

This match-up is going through a lot of debate though, so it'll go either way depending on who you talk to.

I have a similar viewpoint. MK's offstage game dominates.

 

[Shady Penguin]

I also think MK has the advantage against Snake, but not by too much.

As for D3 counterpicks, I think good ol' BF is one of the best stages since grenades and mines on the platforms can really be a pain to D3.

I think Halberd would be a good idea too. Vertical kills dominate there, so D3's edge-guarding **** may be less prominent, and the always faithful platform that goes above most of the stage is useful for your explosives. U-tilt and C4 kills (sticky or not) would be very good there, but watch out of D3's also amazing u-tilt.

 

[napZzz]

IMO MK has the advantage. MK can gimp snake SO easy. If anyone plays a meta that knows what he's doing they'll see what I mean. Once you're off the edge (unless you are really high) you are dead if the meta doesn't mess up. I can't even count how many times i've been thrown off the stage at under 40% and gimped. I've tried everything lol. Once you're off the stage you're dead. (MK is pretty much the only character I play against besides tourneys)

This match-up is going through a lot of debate though, so it'll go either way depending on who you talk to.

I <3 this post. Everytime I play my friends MK (he's pretty **** good) I'm pretty much ****ed once I'm off stage, or take a **** load of damage coming back Shuttle loops make me very un happy D:

 

[CaliburChamp]

Ok, I get it now. MK will always counter every character in this game...
/sarcasm

I'm done here, no point in talking to people about the MK vs Snake matchup when people haven't realized what Snake can do to MK.

 

[Ken Neth]

I think the snake mains would know what snake can do better than most. >_>

But I only think it's a slght advantage for MK. Even, if snake can avoid getting gimped.

 

[napZzz]

Its a ******** advantage for MK. Just BARELY Though. The only thing that little cracka has is his easy gimps. YAY I CAN USE MY DAIR AND SHUTTLE LOOP FOR EZ KILLZ GOD ****ING ****IT I'M SO GOOD!

 

[ICE27]

The snake vs mk match up is clearly in mk's favor "calibur champ" doesnt know ****! Mk air game is ridculous and due to snakes disadvantage air wise clearly justifies the advantage. Snake has a few moves that help him in the match up but no clear advantage. Yes and mk edge guard is almost impossible to recover from. If the mk is good and not just some scrub trying to be good don't expect to recovery if knocked off. I agree with the dk match up not being a five i also feel as if the pikachu match up isnt as bad as it has been made out to be putting it even would make more sense. The dk match up isn't hard but can give u trouble if ur careless. And I'll say one thing about the D3 norfair counter pick that stage allows alot of hit and run possiablities making it a good counter against D3. Plus no cg's all the way across the stage.

 

[Azgner]

Norfair or Battlefield as a counterpick against DDD.
If you have a mine on the lower plataforms, D3 can't d-throw you while under it, or it'll hit him.
Thanks for the info, fawfulrenosmash!

 

[abit_rusty]

And Brinstar? Irregular ground as well as lava...works to stop CG I'm sure.

 

[Shady Penguin]

I've noticed we've been going quite slowly. I suggest we try a new method to pick up the pace (not that we should rush).

One option we can try is to have one of the more trusted members here (perhaps rusty himself) briefly list his general ratings of the rest of the match-ups, and then the board can discuss any modifications and points it would like to make.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

well i think the other matchup that gives snake the most trouble is diddy (that sideb gimp blows) not to mention the obvious bananas but grenades make it easy for me to counter that, though i havent played a really good diddy yet, i think

 

[napZzz]

well i think the other matchup that gives snake the most trouble is diddy (that sideb gimp blows) not to mention the obvious bananas but grenades make it easy for me to counter that, though i havent played a really good diddy yet, i think

I agree 100%....snake has a heavy ground based game and diddys naners **** you down there -____-

 

[Ken Neth]

I play a decent diddy quite a bit. I've learned to time my mortarslide to catch the bananas pretty much every time I have one thrown at me. Plus, you can use the bananas against him as well. And it's easier for snake to pick them up in my opinion. I'd say the match-up is even, maybe with a slight advantage to diddy.

 

[abit_rusty]

I've noticed we've been going quite slowly. I suggest we try a new method to pick up the pace (not that we should rush).

One option we can try is to have one of the more trusted members here (perhaps rusty himself) briefly list his general ratings of the rest of the match-ups, and then the board can discuss any modifications and points it would like to make.

Well it's around that time where much of everything has been said and it all just has to be compiled into the OP...although this one was a bit on the slow side but hey at least the thread's alive again.

And does anyone think the ratings should change from a star-rated method to a ratio (i.e. 50:50, 60:40, etc.) rating method? I originally had the idea of rating it as how difficult it would be to face the character, I didn't really have the whole "advantage-to-_____" rating mindset when I originally made this thread.

 

[ICE27]

And Brinstar? Irregular ground as well as lava...works to stop CG I'm sure.

No brinstar is a horrible stage for snake especially against D3 since his up-tilt can hit you through the platforms. Snake needs ground to control and since there isnt much its a bad place to go.

As far as diddy goes its not in diddys favor if u steal his bananas and use them agaisnt him its even game maybe even tips in ur favor if u use them properly. Just dont let him get control of the bananas be the first to grab them since there is lag animation on the banana take out animation. I agree with ken its even.

And votes toward the star vs 60:40 set up I would prolly vote for the 60:40 set up.

 

[Ken Neth]

I'd like the 60:40 format better as well.

Also Rusty, I know you gave me the stuff to update the OP, but it seems like you've been posting a lot more recently. Do you still want me to be updating it now that you're on frequently?

 

[g-regulate]

best strat is to always be moving, have nades and usmashes going off at all times.

actually though, best strat is to pick up a decent kirby/fox and figure out how to win with them

 

[abit_rusty]

I'd like the 60:40 format better as well.

Also Rusty, I know you gave me the stuff to update the OP, but it seems like you've been posting a lot more recently. Do you still want me to be updating it now that you're on frequently?

Well it's way more time consuming to actually sit and compile everything together into the first post, and make it sound coherent and concise at the same time, so yea It'd be great if you could still do that. Thanks.

These small posts don't take much thinking ._.

Oh and um I'll see what I can do in changing the star difficulty to ratios. Then we can probably do a little debate on those if there are disagreements.

 

[Azgner]

I kinda like the stars =D

 

[napZzz]

the whole 55/45 or whatever thing is what I see most of the time and can be a little more...elaborate on describing the difficulty.

@Ken neth-Good diddys will know how to keep TWO nanners out so when people start to think they are smart and catch them they have another ready to glide toss or just throw and re catch it. If you start to shield they can do his retarted running shield grab, and his edge guarding game is too good between placing nanners and Aerials. His spike is pretty strong too ;_;

 

[Hot_ArmS]

forget his spike what about his sideb lol

 

[StoleUrCar]

forget his spike what about his sideb lol

What about it? It's not like he can reach Snake the majority of the time, since most Snakes know to recover as high as possible and risk, at the worst, getting regrabbed when they land rather than gimped by waiting and using cypher mid-low. It's hardly as lethal as Wario's bite since Diddy takes a big gamble timing it whereas Wario has a pretty nice safety net recovery.

...and does this mean we're moving onto Diddy? Cuz if so rusty (or whoever) needs to get a move on that summary. >.>

 

[Shady Penguin]

Well it's around that time where much of everything has been said and it all just has to be compiled into the OP...although this one was a bit on the slow side but hey at least the thread's alive again.

And does anyone think the ratings should change from a star-rated method to a ratio (i.e. 50:50, 60:40, etc.) rating method? I originally had the idea of rating it as how difficult it would be to face the character, I didn't really have the whole "advantage-to-_____" rating mindset when I originally made this thread.

All the more reason to get it over with quickly. I think a character around every two weeks is too slow paced when we'd be able to agree on most match-up scores with relatively little debate.

I'm not in a rush or anything, but I think it's a better idea than what we're currently doing.

As for the scoring, I think we should use the __-__ format to avoid confusion.