The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

[Kinzer]

fdhgbzdhfgbzdugbuzdygbdygd.

As long as the advice/criticism is useful, I don't care if I'm becoming a running joke around here.

 

[sonictailslink]

*sigh*...i should start recording my matches again but a majority of the time there is no point.

 

[Kinzer]

Get on AIM later tonight.

I had a long write-up, but the mood kind of got killed when I had to stretch and my step-father had to pad my rib-cage. I hate it when he does that and I can't think straight when people (deliberately?) touch me.

A.K.A. I'm way too annoyed to give proper advice for your pessimism.

 

[Tesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8A31ncXvDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWbA_1GB4CM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfWF2etg2NE

my doubles sonic showcases all the problems that have shaped my campy style.
need help

 

[Exceladon City]

Speed your defensive playstyle should **** Marth in every cardinal direction. Just take a considerable percent lead and let him come to you. He's amazing at being a wall, but he's limited in approaches imo. Marth is also free as **** when he's on the ledge. If you just sit about 2.5 Sonics away and shield, you beat every option he has. Especially if he's UpB'd to the ledge. You can just force him into a position that'll make him suffer from the landing lag that he gets from that. As seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_kOQRX6CZI#t=01m29s

 

[Tesh]

That marth was dumb not to land with an aerial (though alot of people tend to miscalculated when you bring the camera away from the ground like that). RCO lag simply means marth won't be able to airdodge into the ground, which he should never need in this matchup anyway.

 

[Kinzer]

Him above you?

AFK.

 

[B.A.M.]

Yeah iono what youre saying Tesh. our uair forces him to AD and we usually get frame traps off it too; without RCO lag. But saying marth never needs to AD in this match up makes no sense. our shielding capabilities give us shield grabs all day since we mess with spacing so easily. So yes there is a reason to do so when you opponent is adept at punishing such an option.

 

[Tesh]

Okay, what I mean is, there is no reason you should get a free Fsmash like Oreo did in that vid because tossing out a quick uair/nair/fair will give him way less lag than airdodging. It would make more sense to try to beat Uair than airdodging if ur gonna have that much landing lag.

I'm talking nonsense.

 

[B.A.M.]

No Tesh you talk fact. I was not even reading the situation you were referring too. You are definitely right on this one. No Marth should be ADing with RCO lag. Its just really pointless.

 

[Exceladon City]

No Tesh you talk fact. I was not even reading the situation you were referring too. You are definitely right on this one. No Marth should be ADing with RCO lag. Its just really pointless.

It's really more a slight oversight on his part because after all, I am on the offensive pretty hardcore.

 

[Tesh]

Marth is one of the characters I didn't realize had RCO lag until I believe K prime made a thread a while ago. His aerials just end so fast, that he only suffers a couple of extra frames. I'm pretty shocked that Kirby has RCO lag, considering how rare it is to even see his helpless animation.

 

[Life]

*thinks too much*

...how DO you get Kirby in helpless? 0_o

 

[Kinzer]

Copy abilities, and the really difficult to pull off (aerial) recovery from Final Cutter; which you can manage via windboxes or temporary platforms disappearing.

*Knows too damn much.*

 

[Trent]

Updated. Added a new section at the top to show new videos.

 

[sonictailslink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6G9BZ_UMWg - Tails (Sonic) vs. Ven (Zelda)

Just a match Kinzer requested me to upload for him to review. If you want to criticize this video, it would be really grateful.

 

[Tesh]

tesh v trela still in the wifi section....

 

[Trent]

tesh v trela still in the wifi section....

I did not know this, will fix later today.

 

[wonf]

hi sonics

I should not do vs falco? intense matches Bo3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLT1X7QGwRs&feature=related [1] falco is a monster D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjWOuI3zp4&feature=related [2] I did well in this xp

sorry for no talk so much in this page , my english is not the best im a mexican xD
critic please!

 

[B.A.M.]

lol kinzer. the main form of RCO lag you should be concerned about with kirby is his side b. if he does that even once while airborne he will have RCO lag.

@Tesh the fact that he is forced to attack is amazing. It basically means shield nets you a guaranteed punish.

 

[Kinzer]

dude, are you serious? I've always used the Hammer to get some extra airtime with Kirby, but that's BS.

... Actually, that's wonderful for me. :3

@Wonf, don't feel too bad. I am of Hispanic heritage yet I cannot speak Spanish. I'm trying to learn, but it's difficult. I applaud you for being bilingual.

Uhm, if anything I say is difficult to understand, please let me know. I have a mother who can translate if need be, but for now, let me just tell you that you don't seem to know how you want to attack. It looked like you were throwing out attacks at the wrong place and time, and the Falco was just ripping you apart for it. This is a matchup where you have to take it slowly. You also have to reset Falco's jab, you were taking a lot of damage from that alone and the follow-ups he would do after.

You should not try to recovery with Aerial Spin Charge so much either. Falco has his Back Air, on top of other attacks that just simply ignore it all together. You are Sonic, always try to find the safest way to get back on.

 

[wonf]

i understand,need more mix up or using cp stage xD
thanks for comment

 

[FRiSKruns]

Here's some new vids from a recent tourney

Tourney Matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwpvZCyS4Ts - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jf6zw-sNzE - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 2

Friendlies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZlIx5LZYi0 - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1oklulc-b4 - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 2

Please Comment, Rate, Critique, etc.

On that note, those of you with good/viable amount of exp w/ the Lucario MU please give me some advice/input if you can. It would be very much appreciated.

Edit: COME AT ME BRO(Kinzer or Espy w/ that critique)

 

[JoseLuisUrias]

Sonic (JLuis) vs Snake (RAM) friendlys

coment and critique plz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPazkVPfZto

 

[Kinzer]

Here's some new vids from a recent tourney

Tourney Matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwpvZCyS4Ts - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jf6zw-sNzE - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 2

Friendlies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZlIx5LZYi0 - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1oklulc-b4 - Zero (Sonic) vs Trela (Lucario) 2

Please Comment, Rate, Critique, etc.

On that note, those of you with good/viable amount of exp w/ the Lucario MU please give me some advice/input if you can. It would be very much appreciated.

Edit: COME AT ME BRO(Kinzer or Espy w/ that critique)

... First, why are you counterpicking him to Smashville? One of the few times you can get guaranteed damage on Lucario is when he has to recover and doesn't have a second jump. If you take the ledge, he has no choice but to land onstage, which will allow you to do a ledgedrop double-jumped ASC. That platforms ruins everything by giving him somewhere else to recover and just makes me sadface . Yeah sometimes there will be a wall t- cling under the stage, but you should be aware of that and when that happens just ledgedrop and Fair him. It can probably stagespike the guy or at least give him some trouble.

Lesse~... Second match, you lost that second stock because he pushed you too far out to recover... I haven't seen that sort of thing work since '08, and that was with characters not Sonic. You do understand that if you need some extra leeway you're suppose to use Homing Attack to stall/elongate your recovery, yes? You could've at least prevented that one death, if no other.

What else?

Oh, try to just outside of his range, or just enough so that you can shield and not get grabbed. After a while he was just grabbing you whenever you ran up to him. You're suppose to condition your opponent and understand their patterns before you try anything. There's no other way you'll get inside if the other player doesn't mess up, which they shouldn't because if they're Lucario they know damn well they can hand-pick the attacks they throw out and you're not getting in unless you force them to commit preemptively and attack from another angle they cannot cover in that time.

Speaking of getting in, that Aura Shpere Charge is silly. If it gets big enough, you probably are not getting around it, admittingly, but it's a wonderful thing if he has his back facing you. What's he going to do, Bair? Nair? Continue charging? This is almost a taunt, Lucario is so much more troublesome if you can't get behind him. If you'd like for me to go more into this, let me know, but I'll just say that there are a couple of (safe) things you can do to get him to stop assuming you are in a neutral position... which I did see you in one case but you let that opportunity kind of slip by.

And while we're at it, let me kind of go over what it means to make recovery attempts against Lucario. You're going to have to be extremely careful in how you do it, I'm sure you know that going the wrong way will only lead you right into one of his attacks and get you killed because they just reach so far and last so long. This is one of those times where having many options helps, if you need to recover high because he can't Bair/Nair/Uair you for being too low, wonderful. If he's hitting open air because you snooped right under him, even better because you won't have to worry about him land-camping you then; by that point you'll be far enough away from him that you can think of another calculated assault after the both of you have returned to the neutral position. That's the best place you can be with Lucario that isn't juggling him once you've got him.

... You know, maybe later today I could do something concerning frame-advance and rising aerials...

... But I'm mumbling, I do know that if you can get him to Dair your shield, you're in a perfect spot to jump OoS and Fair. If you're not confident, see what else you can do, like grab if he's landing in front of you, or the occasional Dash Attacks which will at least get you away from him assuming they hit his shield. normally I wouldn't say DA OoS because most opponents tend to have very quick attacks, but Lucario's fastest are his jab/grab/Utilt, which I believe UTilt hits on frame 5... behind him, and his other two attacks I know for sure are frame 6. Take into consideration landing lag, shielddrop frames... eh, Dash Attack is a mix-up, let's leave it at that.

FROM THAT POSITION ANYWAY! Oh God let me repeat, trying to commit to anything until you have predicted/figured out your opponent is bad. You cannot get the same rewards for your risks as Lucario can with his. If you need to do is as a mix-up, by all means go ahead, but do not let that turn into desperation. It is imperative that no matter what you need to keep a cool head at all times so that you even have a chance of winning.

... Only thing I have left to say is try not to land with approaching aerials. That will get you grabbed. What you want to do is use momentum you have from drifting in the air and land behind him with a "retreating" Bair. You'll find that this is also the safest way to counter his land-camping that isn't just simply doing nothing/airdodging if he's trying to go for a super hard read and hit your extended limb from trying to Bair nothing. When those two things get predictable, you know you can like, try to Fair your way down. Just hope by then that he let's go of his shield before you get the hard landing. Another mix-up, not something to fall on, yada yada yada.

Okay I lied, I just want to end this by saying that this matchup will test your wits and your knowledge. You must take every chance given to you, maximize damage output while minimizing damage intake, and you absolutely have to cause fear into your opponent to make opportunities present themselves. As much as I will hate to say this, You cannot and should not rely on miracles. If you win, it's because you're a million times better than your opponent. [IMO]If you lost, you still have much to learn about yourself and what it takes to play competitively[/IMO]

Also yes, I know the Easter Egg has a watermark, I'm lazy, sue me, I'm just trying to have some fun/get my point across.

coment and critique plz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPazkVPfZto

Uhm... I don't get it, what do you want us to critique? It looked like you were just styling on the opponent, the match wasn't even close to make it look like you needed to try. I don't mean any offense, but there isn't much I can say unless it looked like you were struggling in even one place.

 

[Kupo Rose]

coment and critique plz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPazkVPfZto

Replay date: 12/14/2009

Wouldn't you want people to critique a more recent video?

 

[FRiSKruns]

Replay date: 12/14/2009

Wouldn't you want people to critique a more recent video?

odds are that *is* a recent vid, if you look at my replays, mine also say they're from 09 however, they were saved just this last weekend. The reason for this is because I recently did a restore to factory condition on my wii, thus the result. Which means now I need to correct my wii's timer.

@Kinzer - thanks a ton for the advice bro, the only thing I can say I even remotely disagree with is the idea of trying to use SH fair OoS, I'd much rather use Uair OoS due to the horizontal disjoints, it makes it a bit more safe, the only time where fair would be better is when he's shielding (since this matchup seems especially reliant on us having the positional advantage). Looking back I do feel like I should've been using my wavebounces and footstools to land a bit more too =/

 

[Kinzer]

Fair has worked wonders for me. I don't know if Uair works better for you, but I try to limit my theorycraft and speak mostly on experience. I can see why Uair works too but I just love Fair.

Admittingly, I need to use Uair more. Kind of difficult to do so without fullhopping or doublejumping though, but that's no excuse.

 

[Kupo Rose]

odds are that *is* a recent vid, if you look at my replays, mine also say they're from 09 however, they were saved just this last weekend. The reason for this is because I recently did a restore to factory condition on my wii, thus the result. Which means now I need to correct my wii's timer.

I see, fair do's.

 

[FRiSKruns]

Fair has worked wonders for me. I don't know if Uair works better for you, but I try to limit my theorycraft and speak mostly on experience. I can see why Uair works too but I just love Fair.

Admittingly, I need to use Uair more. Kind of difficult to do so without fullhopping or doublejumping though, but that's no excuse.

Are you not c-stick-ing your aerials? O.o

I usually have no difficulty doing Buffered SH Uair OoS or to bait certain characters into airdodge for an autocancel->grab it's pretty sweet, no lie

 

[WedginatorX]

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=RoOyIcIVSNc - Wedge (Sonic) vs Afro (DK)

 

[PfoSonic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qgrP3MddXY - PfoSonic(Sonic) vs Marcbri (Falco)
This match is from a offline tournament.Please critique it.
(at the end of the match I was really nervous ,thats why I took the f-smash )

 

[Life]

Welcome to the forums.

I'm not sure you were dealing with Falco's jab optimally, or that he was using it right for that matter. But I might be wrong.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but you don't look half-bad.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I know and respect marcbri alot and the fact that you were giving him the business for so much of that match says alot. In terms of playing sonic you did really well. Your spindash and run mixups were high quality. Your grab game was on point. and you pulled some nasty reads.

however when it came to defending yourself and know how to fight the other guy you faltered a little bit. You ate wayyyyy too many lasers at certain points trying to get in. you also had some really really bad ledge habits. getting blasted while getting up from the ledge lost you 2 of your 3 stocks and ultimately the game. You dont roll on stage while the guy is charging a smash attack. sonic has so many options when getting off the ledge, you need to learn and explore them so you dont fall into patterns like that.

also you were up airing falco out of his jab consistently, which was great. but you didnt follow up correctly. when you only hit with the first hit of the up air, you can grab falco and he cant escape it.

overall, imo, probably the best non-american sonic ive ever seen.

 

[infomon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8NLL5OQuvY - InferiorityComplex (Sonic) vs. Sleeh (Falco) 2

 

[da K.I.D.]

fizzie, I meant to find/talk to you.

You have to go to apex. Im making it a sonic reunion.

EVERYONE is going to be there, Im getting boxob, cith and Marko to come back for this, so you have to be there too.

 

[Life]

Hey, infzy found my video! I was just about to come here...

So yeah. Critique away. The first thirty seconds is kinda painful to watch, but it gets better <.< (If you must know, first game was pretty similar--get ***** my entire first stock and then go blow for blow and lose at one stock low percent)

 

[infomon]

fizzie, I meant to find/talk to you.

You have to go to apex. Im making it a sonic reunion.

EVERYONE is going to be there, Im getting boxob, cith and Marko to come back for this, so you have to be there too.

LoL I'd love to. But I might not know my financial situation in time....... but maybe in like 2mo. I'd be able to say if I can afford to go.

 

[Kinzer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOyIcIVSNc - Wedge (Sonic) vs Afro (DK)

I fixed the URL since the one in the OP was... kind of not the actual video. Either way, let me see if my advice can be of any use.

Before I go on though, I should give you a fair warning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A7Ql93RsDQ

So if you want me to relook at this after I get up from my hangover and finish my weeklies on my Warrior hanging out with Jerry at the arcade tomorrow I will be more than happy to do people a favor and look at this when it's more believable that I'm coherent even though I'm still fairly confident that I can point out some things.

Okay Wedge, so I'm behind on filling out this request but here goes~!

...

Biggest thing I've noticed from watching all these matches:

Y U NO TEC CARGO~!?

*Sob.*

I can only hope you were at least holding up when he had you in a cargo-throw. You fact you even died from an '08 gimmick makes me sadface and that's very hard to do when I've had a drink.

As for everything else, you did okay. You had some stupid deaths though I feel, like on that match on PS1 where he Uair'd you. I don't think that should've happened honestly, and I just said "why?" when you Spring'd, which only further limited your landing options. I figured you were trying to avoid it all-together, but that was not the way to go about it.

You also didn't edgehog him one time where he would've died otherwise. I don't know what happened at that moment, I want to say you did a misinput or a miscalculation and you figured by the time you would've tried to fix it it would've been too late, but still.

Try this on for size actually. Next time you play a Donkey Bong, how about implementing more Fairs in your game? Donkey's a big target, his shield is poop, and your platform pressure with Fair is just awesome. Those matches where I would expect you to do just that, you actually Uair, which is pretty bad in terms of platform pressure. Don't get me wrong though, it's good to juggle him when he's already in the air, but every other time... eh~...

Also beware his Donkey Pawnch. He hit you a lot of the times just because you probably weren't expecting it. Whenever he has it fully charged, always be aware of that last getaway option. I will trust you not to let respect turn into fear but at the same time we can't let you get hit by all this unnecessary bullcrap, 'kay? <3

I will say this though. Kudos to actually using Spindash Roll Spinshot. I thoguht I'd never see a legitimate use for it, but you hit him with a Fair out of it. Wonderful!

D'oh, one more thing before I forget! Drop the running USmash thing. It's not gonna work if Donkey shields it, you're just asking him to pound you with the twin hammers of Africa (DSmash) if you do it and it doesn't hit.

*Hic.*

This wine tasted awful! More bitter than the one's I've had before!

Onto the next one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qgrP3MddXY - PfoSonic(Sonic) vs Marcbri (Falco)
This match is from a offline tournament.Please critique it.
(at the end of the match I was really nervous ,thats why I took the f-smash )

I know others have already given you insight, but I would like to look at this myself, since it's always a treat to see Sonics from OoC.

This match was interesting to watch. Here it looks like both players are eve-

No screw that, I'd be willing to put money down that you are actually the better player, but your opponent got off to the fact that he plays a better character, and one who is a bad matchup for Sonic. He was fishing so hard for the USmash kill at first, your Spindash Jumps were getting punished OoS with Bairs, hit you with so many lasers. He didn't do that much work I feel, but you just weren't taking the necessary precautions to avoid them so that's why he won.

Oh also, I don't know about other people, but I would tell you not to spotdodge so much against Falco. His moves are so fast by themselves that he would recover relatively as quick as you would from the spotdodge animation whereas if you let him hit your shield you'll have more time to react, and perhaps more time to punish too.

Other than that good job!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8NLL5OQuvY - InferiorityComplex (Sonic) vs. Sleeh (Falco) 2

Hey Income~!

...

*Watches match.*

...

Uhm~, remind me again how long you've been playing this game buddy?

I hate to be a jerk, but this is comparable to watching SK92 if he were somehow not all that good of a player...but because he is, he's forced me to think through my actions, approaching methods, so on so forth. This Falco on the other hand... I'd probably style on him if I had the chance, no lie.

But however much your opponent sucks or otherwise doesn't matter. Obviously. So what we have to do here is tell you what you must work on.

As a matter of fact, I have just the suggestions to give you ideas on what to work on for next time!

*Ahem.*

You like to spotdodge a lot. Rolling moreso. Can we get you to stop just for a tiny bit? Please? I promise; especially with Falco, that if you can learn to hold the shield button more (if you can't avoid being in shield all-together (easier said than done ya know)), you'll see a lot more success in your future.

Also this is cute. Fourty-five seconds into the Match, and you Throw an USmash outta nowhere. Wanna tell me why~!(?) He wasn't anywhere near you, and it's not like it would've punished a Phantasm you could've potentially predicted, or even been a good punish at that. so if we can also get you to use fewer attacks at more appropriate times, that would just be SUPER delightful.

Same tihng happens a minute and five seconds where you just FSmash. *Hic.* I hate FSmash, it's so slow, and not worth the commitment, especially not at that percent.

Oh... This is also quite annoying. Dis Falco player is disrespecting your assault almost everytime and whenever he mispaces or an attack or after one attack from you, he spotdodges. He did this a lot, and got away with it almost, if not every time. Gotta study your opponent and PUNISH their habits like the fist of an angry God. I'd know what that'd look like too, because I'm a messed up individual ( ;_; ), but I think you get me point regardless.

Going back onto what I said about appropriate attacks... Two minutes into the video, he whiffs an USmash, and you run.

Tell me why~! That also makes me sadface . I'm not gonna repost the image because I'd just be wasting space but imagine a sad little rabbit girl here for me 'kay? You should feel bad for making that happen ;_;. As long as now you know better and don't go out of your way to make it happen you shall be forgiven *Hic.*.

... Actually, your second stock loss... You didn't even try to avoid it it seems. I'm curious as to what happened at that moment, like you didn't even try to Airdodge or Fair, you just let him boot you to the heavens.

*Spit.*

Did he just die from a Back-Throw... at that percent... with THAT DI?

Okay... *Dead.*

Meh, either way, anti-climatic ending is anti-climatic.

Keep trying Income! I'm going to give the benefit of doubt and assume that because you don't get many chances to play, and haven't been playing for long at that, you just haven't got the concept of spacing and commitment down. Once you can pick up on those things, I'm almost sure you'll be a force to be reckoned with!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm about ready to pass out, so good night Cleveland~!

Though I do know that I wanna fight this guy someday! It'd be a nice break from having Kyle like, JV3-stock me errdai all dai. His Falco is too good. ;_; MAH SAWNEEK NEEDS LESS IMPROVEMENT AND LESS SUCK!

 

[Tesh]

I dont tech cargo either. I just accept that if I got grabbed at 80+ I lose my stock. + I run into a DK every 6 months and i forget the timing.