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The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

Trent

Smash Champion
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Oh, another thought before I forget. I was thinking about having a Winning Dat Steak video every month or something, where we get input from everyone of a recent match that was steak worthy and put it into the OP.

Thoughts?
 

Tesh

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Top notch idea. I expect lots of hating and a bit of appreciating every month then. Though depending on how you would rate a video "good", either Espy or Muhsoce will win every time.

:troll:
 
Joined
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BTW, to all new Sonics. I am KASR. The creator of winning steak and this thread. Anyways, I have been getting back into playing shape for brawl. Aside from my other characters. I'm still having trouble getting most of his advance stuff down. I'm happy to see when I was away, I left it to some good people.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
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I gotcha covered on the double post, Trent.
And I'll be sure to remember the format from here on out.

Not used to it, since I used to just upload any new vids of me along with the update itself.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
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Oh, another thought before I forget. I was thinking about having a Winning Dat Steak video every month or something, where we get input from everyone of a recent match that was steak worthy and put it into the OP.

Thoughts?
I don't think the community is as actively as it use to be, being able to pump out tourneys and tourney vids out the wazoo. Might have to limit it for every season or something if you really wanted to do it.

Then again, I hope it can be for the sake of showcasing "the best of Sonic" instead of just an e-peen stroke. It'd be awesome for people who don't want to shift through a whole buncha Sonic vids and find "the perfect way" to play Sonic.

...@#$%. That can be simplified to "
be a good player."

Whatever. My $0.02 isn't worth much around here anyway I assume. I'm going back to my troll lair where it's valued at over nine thou- *shot.*

:093:.
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
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Mar 13, 2008
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everyone is super lazy and *****es all day; however some people are stepping up. GIMR is trying to release new info every week to better players, Pierce is still doing write ups. Havok has a blog to discuss brawl related stuff etc.

Random thought: You know whatd be great, some good hd sonic matches with some quality commentary.

@ KID: Damn; I did not know.
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
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Grieving No Longer
Lol you're funny. Ally has been on top for several months now, don't know where you've been.
At first I was like
<_<
and then I looked at the rankings
AND THEN I LOL'D :laugh:

KASR: According to said rankings, Espy and X are 23rd/24th respectively. Can't be that bad. Also, of course top tiers win, that's why they're top tiers.
 

Tesh

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Those rankings don't really mean much of anything InCom. If you go to an 8 man tournament and beat M2K, Ally, Anti, ADHD, Gnes, Razer, DEHF and Mikehaze, it will count for less than if I go to a 40 person tournament and beat a much of senior citizens that barely can press the buttons.
 

Tesh

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Best part was him SDIing out of fair and killing you with Bair. I gotta say that scared me.

Nairing from now on.
 

FRiSKruns

Smash Ace
Premium
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Mar 23, 2010
Messages
500
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@Tesh - So long as you only hit with the tip of fair, you'll never have to worry about that, the tip will always send them forward. (well at least to my experience) Though in all honesty, it nearly defeats the purpose of using it since you won't get more than about 3-4%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV_pyzMMQUk - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCbEFLQcg0o - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZZ8FGbm3E - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 4

Recent offline friendlies.

Please watch, critique, comment, rate, etc.

I'd love to know what I do that is effective/ineffective and what I can/should be doing that I'm not doing/not doing enough.
 

Tesh

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yea that was my point, only fatties take the whole 14% from fair.
 

Satanpute

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FRiSKruns

Smash Ace
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raDjBUMLRVc - Zero (Sonic) vs Rei-Gun (Marth) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVGf5O_3K0s&feature=channel_video_title - Zero (Sonic) vs Rei-Gun (Marth) 3

We forgot to save the replay after game 2, but this was a tourney set, from like 2 weeks ago. (I've improved since then, as you can see from the other matches I posted recently)

Looking back on it, I did some pretty scrub things during that set. In any case, Comment/Critique please, if there's anything I didn't notice that I did well/horribly please let me know.
 

FRiSKruns

Smash Ace
Premium
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500
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june 6 is a month and a half ago?
you're right actually lmao, I feel ********, just had a blonde moment, I dunno why it felt so long, it's only been like 2 weeks XD and for w/e reason I thought it said 5/6 in the description.
Edit: must have been the lack of sleep I had the night before.


Anyway, yes Kinzer, input would still be appreciated... on both sets of videos.
 

Mr. Johan

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUPQGDaElw0 - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfbcaJ4SE0A - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoHrN8cnO7w - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy2nJ3jC6z8 - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 4



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikeYQtGDHMw - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88raviLin0Q - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE83l1rsf0M - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yczovKjmKbI - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2lXZ8ye3Gc - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Tesh (Sonic) 5



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO8sfnbCs1g - Joshua (Sonic) vs C.S. Dinah (Peach) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-oxJ1Bo2zQ - Joshua (Sonic) vs. C.S. Dinah (Peach) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLBOI149lC0 - Joshua (Sonic) vs. C.S Dinah (Peach) 3

All of my Sonic matches that got saved at HOBO. The first four links are friendlies, the next 5 are the Sonic ditto MM, the last three is another MM. LOL at my tanking skill against Spyker at Delfino.
 

Kinzer

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@Tesh - So long as you only hit with the tip of fair, you'll never have to worry about that, the tip will always send them forward. (well at least to my experience) Though in all honesty, it nearly defeats the purpose of using it since you won't get more than about 3-4%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV_pyzMMQUk - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCbEFLQcg0o - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZZ8FGbm3E - Zero (Sonic) vs JRUGS (Snake) 4

Recent offline friendlies.

Please watch, critique, comment, rate, etc.

I'd love to know what I do that is effective/ineffective and what I can/should be doing that I'm not doing/not doing enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raDjBUMLRVc - Zero (Sonic) vs Rei-Gun (Marth) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVGf5O_3K0s&feature=channel_video_title - Zero (Sonic) vs Rei-Gun (Marth) 3

We forgot to save the replay after game 2, but this was a tourney set, from like 2 weeks ago. (I've improved since then, as you can see from the other matches I posted recently)

Looking back on it, I did some pretty scrub things during that set. In any case, Comment/Critique please, if there's anything I didn't notice that I did well/horribly please let me know.
Alright, I'm going to use collapses and timestamps. If I mess up anything in the URL, just go ahead and look at the specific moment designated in the URL.

[collapse="Match 1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=00m18s - Should've done the Spin Charge on the platform where it was safer if that was what you were going for. You were right in front of him which left you open for attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=00m23s - Would've been safer to land on the platform with the airdodge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=00m35s - Don't get so hasty with your land-camping, especially considering you were doing great with it and have the advantage. You had a lot of ways to respond with Spin Dash. Could've shield-cancelled into a grab, or plow right through any of his responses with Invincibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=01m30s - Why did you run away when you had the perfect opportunity to get him offstage and apply more pressure?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=01m40s - You would've been able to done more had you ran instead of used SpinDash to go about closing in on him. If an opponent pratfalls like that on a platform, their options are severely limited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=01m50s - Like I said, you're trying to move too quickly, and you got punished for the hard-landing of Dair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m00s - NEVER try to get rid of a grenade by throwing it. Snake can simply make you drop it anytime he wishes too and you will be committed to an attack unable to get away from it. Always airdodge. Then again, that would imply you had to Spring Jump after that, and with the way the Snake player responded the worst that could've happened was that you take damage from both his Uair and the Grenade explosion. By then, I don't either would've killed you right there and then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m15s - Oey, misinputs everywhere. You shouldn't try to box with Snake, but if you have to, just use Jab. Using anything else risks heavy punishment like right here as you tried to use DTilt. This is assuming that you haven't figured out his defensive habits anyway, I figure you may have wanted to try to get a juggle going with DTilt, but it seems like you were still just throwing attacks from instinct or have yet to find his habits at this point in the match/set. Best to go with what works best/is safe until then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m40s - Alright, now I'm getting the idea is that you're not trying to do anything after a whiffed DTilt. Even though this in itself may not always work, try to go for a grab or a jab afterwards. Think of it as a rock-paper-scissors type of game. Shield is frame 1 and is the best defensive option, but as I'm sure you're aware of, is beaten out by grabs. (Sonic's) grab hits on frame 6, and is the most rewarding punish you can get, but compared to every other attack is slow and can be beaten out with quick boxing. (Sonic's) jab in frame 3 and is the happy median. That can be beaten by shields which are faster and leave the opponent with an opportunity to punish after you jab. Just something to consider next time you go whiffing DTilts and have to do some boxing; I know I find myself in that situation myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m50s - Aww, could've gone for an UTilt here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m55s - NO~! FSmash is not going to kill then, and isn't a quick response for those types of situations. What're you doing~!? >_< needs moar FTilt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=03m03s - Why do do this to yourself? ;_;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=03m15s - Eh, wrong way, but by then it would've been shielded too. UTilt is good for when opponents are in the air and somewhat in range. Once they already land, if you have to do something, go for grabs, otherwise don't take the risk and just let it go. Better that you go back to neutral than... that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=03m25s - I saw what you did thar! It wasn't going to work anyway! He would've been too far had he just stood there, and you're throwing out FSmash like it's free candy. Stop it~! D:< Get better at reads, and play with faster attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=03m28s - Not a good idea to use an aerial right on top of his shield most of the time. That was just one of the few things that could happen, it's best to land and grab/run away most of the time; or space the aerials better to not find yourself in that situation to begin with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=03m45s - habjabrafiggleaymereriesubsuyhfvbusf. Either you held it too long, or made the mistake of FSmashing again. I would've gone for a grab at that point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=03m55s - And this is why grabs are awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=04m25s - You're way too slow on this thing broski, work on your reaction time, or stop playing on reaction if you're unfortunately slow on the gun normally (like, not just in Brawl) and know what he's going to do next. Either will do you good. The finish to that match was just the most depressing thing I've ever seen.[/collapse]

Next!

[collapse="match 2"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=00m28s - Dair when he's waiting for you why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=00m52s - FSmash why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=00m55s - DSmash why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=01m37s - Again, why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m02s - Yeah okay, now this is what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m14s - ;~; Approaching with a direct SDR. Really, there's no rush. He couldn't have done anything to kill you from that range, and you can go in anytime while he has to predict when you'll go. You were at the positional advantage here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=02m20s - Had he been faster to respond, that one could've been worse too.

Okay, before I go on, just some things in general I noticed. You always spotdodge the first hit of FTilt. Are you assuming he's going to go in for a grab? He's done that very rarely from what I've seen, but you've ailed to adapt to now. If you're going to dodge, make it a rolldodge at least. Otherwise, just sit in the shield.

You also have a terrible tendency to chase him high in the air. Best case scenario from what I've seen; and not counting the one time you've managed to get an Uair kill on him, the situation is either reset to neutral, or he gets the advantage because Snake falls FAST while you are out of your B-moves and a jump. Especially on FD, this is the last thing you want to do. start land-camping more, and use Sonic's natural ground speed to make punishes. Go for the aerial assault as a mix-up here and there, and definitely work on your spacing at least.

Moving on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=05m25s - Eww, don't actually do the whole jab combo input. Just hold the A button. You won't be nearly as committed even if you constantly do Jab 1, and this will ensure that if the jab combo does hit, your opponent cannot shield the next oncoming attacks due to human error and being too slow to make the next manual input.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=05m30s - Meh, I hate pivot-grabbing with Sonic. What you could do instead, and the approach I prefer is to use DSmash to punish a supposed airdodge landing. DSmash will be guaranteed to hit him since there's always a certain amount of time opponents are vulnerable upon landing. Specifically, 2 frames for a normal fall, and I think 4 or 6 for a hard, fastfall landing. DSmash has some nice active frames... and boats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=05m50s - Oh God don't try to grab a shielded UTilt. You'll always be too far unless it was from a run, and even then the risk of whiffing it is far too great to have him only UTilt you again, especially being that any one good clean hit would kill you at this point.. Respect the UTilt and reset the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-y_VZpELo&t=05m55s - Like I said, any one clean hit.

The end of the video was just unadulterated awesome. I'm not sure if any kind of DI would've saved him. If that's a yes, I doubt anyone would've expected you to go for that kind of follow-up in the end, so there's no way anyone could've prepared for that at all.[/collapse]

Next!

[collapse="match 3"] Yeah okay I'll be honest here, you were doing a lot better. The nitpicks I could make at this point are redundant, and it would only make more sense for me to just give you general tips/nitpicks.

At least the ones that I haven't already said. For example, on his last stock, you had a very commanding lead. Sure you got it broken down to two, but the reason was at that point he was getting very desperate to try and kill you and get it over with, and you played accordingly to his improvised plan at that moment. It may not have been too obvious, with him being quite unorthodox and crawl-approaching, but that was his give-away. If he were thinking the same, he would've gone about his business as usual.

That being said, you could've frustrated him more and play very... hit-and-runnish, to say the least. Sonic is a very hard character to hit if played as such. Even though you may have been bound to get hit by something here and there, you could've done more with his last stock than fifteen percent worth. You could also play campy, but I don't like to be the one being reactionary because not always can I guess my opponent correctly, which is why I suggested that taking a more... proactive, "approach" might've done a lot more. Doing that essentially switches the roles, and the only thing you have to do is consider the consequences of your risks, and play very safely, or so much so that you give him little to no opportunity to punish and chip away at him; which would've eventually led into more chances which of course lead into bigger punishes and so on and so forth.[/collapse]

One more from this set.

[collapse="match 4"] Uhm... oh boy, at this point, I'm running out of ideas. Thankfully this was the last of the set. so anyway, let me just give you some food for though.

Yes, airdodging is a somewhat safe way to land. As I'm sure you're aware of though, it has it's downsides. I already explained to you the time in which you're vulnerable upon landing, nevermind the start-up, and the cooldown which you can't always time out of your landing regardless. This became apparent as you died the second time. Not that you always want to do this, but have you considered landing with an aerial?

Think about it, some opponents tend to wait for you to land and then attack. It isn't always going to be expected that their opponent will actually use an offensive maneuver defensively; but you know that old saying...

But at the same time, don't get predictable with it either. They can just run away and hit you then, or challenge you directly, and in some cases beat you out.

Overall, for this match and set, you just took way too much unnecessary damage, and you were too slow to react to certain things; nevermind responding properly.[/collapse]

Alright, next set.

... Err, no second thought, I'm hungry, I'm tired, and I smell. How about I just leave it at this? If you really insist that you have different habits with Marth, just let me know. Though, if you can notice what you're doing wrong, why do you need me? Haha~...

Best of luck; hope this helps. Sorry if I pointed out some things you know, I just want to make sure I got everything so that I might've pointed out what you may not have seen yourself.

:093:
 

FRiSKruns

Smash Ace
Premium
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Mar 23, 2010
Messages
500
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San Antonio, Texas
Thanks a ton for all the input Kinzer, yes I did notice a good portion of the mistakes after watching the replays myself.

However there were also quite a few I didn't that you did catch, which I'm certain will help me to remember in future matches, so I do really appreciate it. :D

Hopefully you were entertained and not just irritated at my mistakes haha :)

Edit: Oh and about my reaction time during that 1st game, it may have seemed much more sluggish than the rest, reason being, that match was played at about 4AM before I went to bed. Even so, I still feel like I can continue to improve my reaction time as well as my reads.

...and yes, I would still appreciate input on my set against Marth :3
 

da K.I.D.

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Rochester, NY
stop trading hits with bowser. he kills us at 120 and we kill him at 200%. its not a good trade for you. stop letting bowser hit you. you know hes just going to up b whenever you get close, so get close and just shield and punish the inevitable up b.

even with that sd you should have beaten him easily.

how does one even lose to a grab-less bowser?
 

Espy Rose

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We probably kill Bowser much earlier than 200%.
And that's probably only because his recovery is horrendous.
 
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