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The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
I watched your first match, wonf.

Some good stuff. I recommend you use less Homing-Attack (sometimes when you were below the stage... if he'd spotdodged then you would have been in a very bad position or dead). Also less Up-Smash! The move isn't very good, you really have to be positioned well for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4gZBDWf7AQ&t=0m56s i.e. 0:56 - 1:20 was very good, you had another run like that or two that were nice.

At one point you were on a platform and he was below you, you insta-Dair'd and hit him, that was lol.

One thing I noticed: try not to let your shield wear down as much as it did... I find especially vs. Wolf, I reeeally need my shield to be ready for when I need it.
*shrug*
 

Muhsoce

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Mexico
Hello there sonic brothers!! Im just passing by to say hi and to share 2 videos, Im back, ja well lately I have been like... I dont know, mmmm, like cheerful I would say, about using sonic, i dont know why I kinda stop using him, Its like, its my "main" but i dont use him to much, but now my desires about using him more and try new things and stuff have come to life again.

Well... now lets go to the important :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0N50dN8S9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuI5UISpn1U

hope you like or at least I hope you enjoy.

I know im full of mistakes but i have always believe in the concept of "water" adapted to a fighter, that is that as a "fighters" we must be like water, we should be able to adapt and change accord to the enemies in every situation that comes and also we MUST be able to take the best from the worst and never let anyone limit us, most of the times our great rival its ourselves. so lets be free!!

P.D. Im not high or drunk. ja

Well, see you around, take care, ill be visiting you more often.

Ok gotta run now!

bye bye
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
*Mexican Sonic plays for fun with honor*

*still better than da kid tryhard*
 

Muhsoce

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Mexico
those vids look scripted.

You also seem to play by some rediculous no edge hog no chain grab honor code
************

well about the scripted thing... I have always thing that, that is one of the best compliments I can recieve, so... thanks!! by the way you are not the first one who have said that =)

about the " ridiculous honor code" its not a code, its just that its kinda "simple" to kill someone like most people do, there is no flashyness in that, anyone can do that and its like lame, i mean in a tourney if I play against someone that edgehog ill do it too but i always try to take them out with hard work besides i have always though that you learn more this way.

But as everything, everyone has its own opinion.

take care!!
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
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Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
about the " ridiculous honor code" its not a code, its just that its kinda "simple" to kill someone like most people do, there is no flashyness in that, anyone can do that and its like lame, i mean in a tourney if I play against someone that edgehog ill do it too but i always try to take them out with hard work besides i have always though that you learn more this way.
I'm glad I wasn't wrong in thinking this sometimes... at least in friendlies anyway, for the sake of being able to see more opportunities due to actual ones being presented.

Such a shame that sometimes deliberately letting your opponent get away with "the mistake of getting gimped," can be taken as an insult.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
does anybody else see the problem in the first vid, where hes down like 120% last stock but you still knew for a fact that he wasnt going to lose the game?

also if your trying to be flashy, do something beside the bair stage spike that you went for 25 times in 2 games. hit him with a nair, or a side b footstool or a spring drop or a dair or SOMETHING...
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
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Location
Fullerton, CA
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Bambatta
lol freakin KID.

@ Kinzer: Maybe I wasnt clear but I just wanted the footage recorded, not put up lol. Its okay though ill manage. Thanks again for taking the time though bro (I think i sent you some of the wrong vids lol like that ZSS one). I got some me v. DEHF ones too that ill give you later.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgyRaBRS9Jk&feature=feedu - B.A.M (Sonic) vs. Nismo (MK) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD_a0Rk2q_0&feature=channel_video_title - B.A.M. (Sonic) vs. Nismo (MK) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fap85oeIwRw&feature=channel_video_title - B.A.M. (Sonic) vs. Nismo (MK) 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54AeeL8sHE4&feature=channel_video_title - B.A.M. (Sonic) vs. Nismo (MK) 4

If someone wants to critique me Id appreciate it, although theres a lot of fail in these videos.

I know I gotta stop messing up that grab buffer out of AD. Dont let MK just land for free when hes in uair range after a follow up. One potential gimp was stupid because i shouldve known he wouldve landed back on stage; gave up a free bair. Man theres a lot of grab buffer fail. Also I mustve of been in some other world where sonic doesnt have SDR> bair because I simply refused to use it. If im following up with a ASC uair combo I should always DJ fair; if they AD i should get my frame trap.

Better spacing on landing camping smashes. A lot of those were done at point blank and I was interrupted everytime. Gave up quite a bit of advantageous situations like wall jup fairing or just ledge drop fairing drill rush recoveries. Gotta remember to hold down slighty if i get out of nado so i can get a free ASC combo. if i got for first hit uair, FH uair, ftilt, or jab combo are better follow ups because they allow me to obtain positional advantage and therefore potentially more follow ups.

I need to do everything in my power to stay away from the ledge when im in the air. whether that means side b' from way above when im getting juggle or whatever. On the ledge if we ledge jump and side b how far does our invincibility last? I wonder if it would save us from the majority of an opponents options there. Has anyone tried that and had any success when being pressured on the ledge?
 

Muhsoce

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Mexico
does anybody else see the problem in the first vid, where hes down like 120% last stock but you still knew for a fact that he wasnt going to lose the game?

also if your trying to be flashy, do something beside the bair stage spike that you went for 25 times in 2 games. hit him with a nair, or a side b footstool or a spring drop or a dair or SOMETHING...
-----

jajaja so you problem is that in most of the videos I upload, i win?

about the other thing, to change the bair for a nair, mmmm as you must know, the recovery time from nair take a lot longer, besides the nair can be tech, using the bair helps me to follow up, as you can see in the videos how I did different things like the first kill with the homming attack also in the last life I follow him with fair trying to take him far from the stage and then follow while i recover but i failed but you can see what i mean in the second video where i did somethig similar, the only good thing i see from what you say would be the side b and dair that i used to do, but the spring drop i did it as well.

as i said i hadnt use him that much so... let me get in the rythm and you will see.

you sound like "you know what you do", so i would like to see some of your gameplay, or are you just like a theoric guy?

------

About B.A.M

I didnt check all your videos i just checked 2 of them, I dont really see any problem with your sonic, in fact i kinda like that your style is all around you use all of the attacks and "tricks" and vary in your attacks, you have like a couple of mistakes, but we all do, we cant play like perfect, the game is about mistakes. so i would just say that keep that variation in your attacks in order to not become predictable and you will be fine, its all about experience to get better, you already know what you want to improve. IMO

take care!! see you!!
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
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Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 1
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 2
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 3
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 4
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 5

Yeah.
Again.

Also, they're uploading some vids of me vs. Megafox's Fox.
I get pooped on pretty hard, lol. No more autopilot for me.

In retrospect though, as far as me vs. K Prime is concerned, I used way too much fsmash, and not enough tilts. Didn't walk enough, and threw out my shield way too often.

I'm getting pretty reckless.
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 1
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 2
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 3
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 4
Winners Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 5

Yeah.
Again.

Also, they're uploading some vids of me vs. Megafox's Fox.
I get pooped on pretty hard, lol. No more autopilot for me.

In retrospect though, as far as me vs. K Prime is concerned, I used way too much fsmash, and not enough tilts. Didn't walk enough, and threw out my shield way too often.

I'm getting pretty reckless.
Looked at the last video. These are random thoughts I had while watching it a few times. I'm a terrible critic, lol. (And various other disclaimers.)

  • I noticed you ran into Kprime's ledgehop fair a lot. You got better about it as the game went on.
  • 1:06. You practically walked into his fsmash. (Although on a second view, looked like you couldn't have done as much as I thought. You can disregard if you want--hindsight is 20/20.)
  • Kprime mashes really fast. Didn't realize this.
  • Curious why the bthrow on 1:35 as opposed to uthrow?
  • You played A TON better on your last stock.
  • 1:40--did you let go or did the fair shield poke you? It looked like it shouldn't have... letting go of shield too early has been a problem with me.
  • Don't be afraid to shield more, actually, I think. Or rather, be prepped to shield at any given time. Especially at high percents, when Pika doesn't get as much out of a grab.
  • Matchup question: what do you do about thunder kills like kprime's second and third?
  • Finally, should have gone to the ledge at the end, but again, hindsight=20/20.

Everything else that wasn't covered already looks solid. You did waaaay better than I could have--treat these more like questions than critiques.

Eh, I'm here already, gonna watch the first vid now to compare...

  • Okay, what happened with kprime at 0:18? I know pikasliding turns you around, but shouldn't the fsmash have turned him back again?
  • Another bthrow. See above.
  • 2:21, missed a punish chance on the trip. Hindsight, again.
  • EXCELLENT edgeplay immediately after that. Although that's partially his fault for screwing up the QA.
  • Looking at the last few seconds, now I see what you mean about the shield.

Yeah, so to summarize:
1. I'm a terrible critic.
2. You're an awesome Sonic.
3. Don't shield less so much as shield carefully. I think this is already what you meant tho.
4. Reread the collapse in my sig. You know these already, but a reminder never hurts.
5. Reread #1 and #2. :awesome:
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,538
Location
Fullerton, CA
NNID
Bambatta
Who are you talking to Wedge?

@Espy: You know Ive never really seen your Sonic walk. At least I cant recall it. Not saying you dont but I really havent seen it. Id actually like to see more us walk in general. I mean we have the 3rd fastest walk right? We're about as fast as Gdubs running lol. I know I need to walk more. It just seems as if I always pick the wrong time to walk. Which is funny because I love to walk with other characters; I just cant help but DDP or true pivot when it comes to the hedgehog.

Id love to see an example of some solid usage of a walking approach. Ill try to critique your vids a little later Espy.

@KID so when is the new footage going up?
 

Muhsoce

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Mexico
im definitely not a 'theory only but bad at the game' guy.

I thought i was going to have some recent vids up. but chibo decided not to upload them.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kidgoggles+pound+V&aq=f

those are all my most recent matches. its not going to be as entertaining for you. since im more about playing to win. although there is some flashy stuff in there.
well im play to win, thats not different but you are right its like the standard gameplay wich i find boring but you dont play that bad its just regular
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
K PRIME MASHES FAST!!? WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!!? UNDER A ROCK!!!?

notcaps
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
Tesh: Right, he was the one who made the thread about how to mash super quickly. I just didn't recall it was the same guy until I saw him break out of a grab at 80% after two pummels. That's, like, better than a level-9 CPU and they have zero reaction time on mashing. (Pathetic that I cite CPUs, but yeah)
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
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Texas
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EspyRose
I tried walking a lot during friendlies that same day, and I had some partial success with it.
I also walked a bit during my third game with Prime.

The results were mixed.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
its just that its kinda "simple" to kill someone like most people do, there is no flashyness in that, anyone can do that and its like lame, i mean in a tourney if I play against someone that edgehog ill do it too but i always try to take them out with hard work besides i have always though
well im play to win,

I feel like im trying to put a cylinder block into a square hole when i read this.
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
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1,538
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Bambatta
Well Im going to leave a more detailed critique. I wouldnt necessarily say all that though KID I mean it seemed he was trying out different things ( granted some of it wasnt working), but I feel thats means was different even though the end goal was the same ( the loss.)

@ Espy: yeah; I went to the Marth boards and have talked to Larry about walking. While it seemed initially a good idea, it really pains us having slow attack speed along with our movesets punishable lag. I mean Falco can ftilt safely, jab, has a fantastic grab range. Marth can dtilt, side b, grab, or even jab (im just mentioning ground options by the way). The only character ive had success with when it comes to walking is Gdubs and thats because up aimed ftilt stuffs his SH aerial game so well.

GAME 1 : Im at 1:00 through and I definitely feel Kprime was getting a with a little too much aerial approaches. Except for a few cases, tilts (as you already stated) or some uair OoS and regular Sh uair ( which you did a bit of) wouldve shut down more of that tactic. I like the little uair>bair frame trap, he ADed the second hit so free aerial for you.

1:42 Good choice with the HA. Ive been trying to incorporate it more and more. Its definitely owns people who are eager with their setups. Its kinda funny because another one wouldve worked again.
1:52 - 1:56: excellent choices there; I love going for the grab but DA> fsmash works so well at low percents and places then in that low aerial arc that reduces a ton of options. Then of course uair which forces him to jump or get crossed and the solid pivot grab. Well done Espy.

2:01: I dont really like going for the grab there especially when that puts you in place for Pika to rack damage, which is what happened. I think you shouldve gone for positional advantage instead and just spaced bair on that shield. You had him cornered as is.

3:45: ^^^

On thing i will say though. I love your awareness on Kprime trying to thunder 2 your ASC. That movement is brilliant and shows again how our character excels at changing his commitment.

Overall game one I believe that a few costly mistakes are what took the game from you rather than Kprime outplaying you. I know personally that I take for granted positional advantage because as sonic a lot of times we can change our position so quickly. We have to remember that other characters arent so fortunate and that is where we can maintain pressure and rack up more damage.

Game 2: 0:42 -0:45 I have a Q for you. Does Nair go through QA? Because if so i think thatd be more effective option. Also when he was trying to recover perhaps a dsmash wouldve been better than trying to aim another bair. (first one was nice though)

Again as you said, a little more walking wouldve done some good in some of these scenarios.

1:33 damn wall jump.

1:38: Ahh too eager for the kill. Like the setup trying to get that shield down, i think you shouldve just charged in a bit so you can get some safety. Especially vs Pika, cuz he gets a dumb grab and he took you to 74. In those scenarios, maybe springing away and trying the reset the situation

2:42: Close. I wouldve done the same.

3:00: When Kprime wants a kill, he wants a kill. I definitely believe he shouldve been punished more for his eagerness. I think that this couldve been that potential turning point to get back at him for that 0-74.

3:18 - 3:42 You try to make something happen. Which I like but it definitely came at a cost. However you are pretty amazing in your follow ups so this could still be a game.

The rest is just a ton of bad defensive choices. Cant really blame you, due to our tendency to get juggled. However, I feel spring was waaaay underplayed in this instance. Theres too many strings going on where springing to safety wouldve at worst giving you time to collect your thoughts. I mean whats the worst, they juggle you again? you were already being juggled. Also your opponent would be aware of a new option so you would have a mix up on your landing. I know with your caliber of play you could spring on reaction to an attack, I wouldve loved to have seen that along with what you said: more tilts, more bair, and walk. Definitely less fsmash, or rather better use of it as it was definitely spaced badly quite a bit of times.

Ill do more later, but for the most part I saw bits and pieces of that typical Espy swag. It was just too fragmented and key moments were approached recklessly and for that you get wrecked (imagine that).

Game 3 I will go into detail in a bit but i must say. Im glad you caught on to Kprimes spotdodge habits, he kept doing so for free. Game 3 looks solid from the bit i saw. Ill have to double check later.

I hope this helps if any Espy.

EDIT: Can anyone give me a critique on my matches? Theyre not that good; i know I made a ton of mistakes but I love to see if anyone picked up anything I missed.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
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Location
Rochester, NY
whats the worst that could happen if you spring out of a pika juggle?

you get read and thundered at the top of the stage at 30%

just the fear of that *********** happening is enough for to limit ourselves to situations where we keep getting hit in this matchup.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
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Texas
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EspyRose
Pretty much what KID said about the juggles.
The same thing applies to his chaingrab as well. Better to just take some damage and get back to the floor then launch yourself closer to the blast zones against a vertically inclined KO character.

And yeah, I feel like I was playing very sloppy all day. No biggie though, K Prime was playing just as off beat.

Losers Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs Megafox (Fox) 1
Losers Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs Megafox (Fox) 2
Losers Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs Megafox (Fox) 3
Losers Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs Megafox (Fox) 4
Losers Finals: Espy (Sonic) vs Megafox (Fox) 5
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
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EspyRose
Yeah, I realized that.
Watched the videos earlier. Spindashing at that range cost me the set.

*shrug*

Also, Trent now has control of the thread.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
im definitely not a 'theory only but bad at the game' guy.

I thought i was going to have some recent vids up. but chibo decided not to upload them.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kidgoggles+pound+V&aq=f

those are all my most recent matches. its not going to be as entertaining for you. since im more about playing to win. although there is some flashy stuff in there.
It's not that I didn't decide to upload them, it's that I haven't had the time to yet. I am incredibly busy now, what with graduating in two weeks, finishing up projects, and the little time I've had off I was preparing for KTAR5.
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
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Mar 13, 2008
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Fullerton, CA
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Bambatta
@ KID I said springing on reaction to an attack. That is the reason I said that specifically cuz of course he could thunder and he would just get owned. I mean if hes jumps at you and you spring how is he going to thunder as the spring either hits, he ADs or gets eaten by a move of his? Which with a decent reaction time I feel that possible. And it wasnt like he was just straight under every time so I feel DIing away and springing couldve been valid particularly in those low mid percents after the chaingrab. Unless he was under a platform I dont see anything crazy about that notion. Am I wrong with that logic or no?

@Espy: Ehh, autopilot happens. Just wreck next time; as long as you know the why I know you'll be good. Cant wait to see some more vids of your Sonic.
 

Trent

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
2,305
Location
New York, NY
Currently in the process of updating the OP. It may take a couple of days since I'm really busy this week, but it should get done no later than Sunday.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
BAM

i dont think you understand or believe me when i tell you things but my reaction time is balls. its why i lose to san, i cant powershield his up air or fair on command, thats how bad it is.
 

Trent

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
2,305
Location
New York, NY
Updated the OP, moving videos from current to old. The new checkpoint date is February 1st, 2011.

EDIT - Completed updating the OP entirely! Huzzah! People are more than welcome to post Sonic videos in this thread to get it critiqued and put into the database.
However, if the videos are not put into the proper format,
They will NOT be put into the database.
Feel free to post a youtube video though for critique, I just will not put into the database if it does not follow the following format:

URL - Player (Sonic) vs. Player (Character) #


Example:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nwlke7Ekv1k - Puffball (Sonic) vs. Morningstar (Snake) 3

I let Espy's earlier videos with K Prime and Megafox into the database since he was the OP owner at the time, and was probably going to put it in himself.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
Double post? This man thinks he is above the law now?

Someone call Espy.
 
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