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"The Triforce of Knowledge" Ganon's Match-Up Guide: Character Review, Kirby.

hyperstation

Smash Lord
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The best Jiggz I've played is Glick, who I know is well respected as a Jiggz main. I only got to play him on wifi a few times a couple months ago but we quit after a match or two due to lag. I really want to friendly that guy IRL at the next tourny I see him at. On that note, if any top notch Jiggz want to get down, I'm all about it. East Coast preferable.

I'll be the first to admit that I have very little match-up experience vs Jiggz, so there may be a bit of a learning curve for the first few matches until I figure out the match-up better. PM meh.
 

Swoops

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It's like people don't even address my points and decide to ignore them and make up new ones >.>. I know about pound, it has ridiculous priority and deceptive reach. But I actually have experience playing with jiggz in tournament play, and rising pound can still be punished if the jiggly is not extremely careful, especially when shielded. You say that drillrest is amazing and can easily hit Ganondorf. That may be true when you actually connect with d-air, but a good G-dorf (like a good jiggz) will always maintain their spacing. While Jiggz has the DI properties to be potentially a better spacer, she only has one move aerially that can compete with Ganon. Plus, Jigg's positioning in the air allows Ganondorf nasty options.

You just better be getting Ganondorf off the stage.
 

Metatitan

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That's okay, illinialex24. When it comes time for the Jigglypuff boards to look over the match-up, you can ignore everything they're saying, call them trolls, lock your topic, and rate the match-up 7:3 Jigglypuff. It's worked so well for you in the past. :ohwell:
What are you doing trolling around in the ganon vs jigglypuff matchup topic anyways lol.
 

Shadow Nataku

Smash Ace
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A few words I want to put in since I play both Jigglypuff and Ganondorf more than any other character.

Quite frankly after playing both characters I would say this is a even matchup, 50:50 easily if not actually favouring Ganondorf slightly towards 60:40.

Jigglypuff has incredible aerial speed, DI and options there is no doubt. The Pound is an amazing setup/launcher move, approach with its priority and knockback. Puff once let into Ganon's personal space can wreak all kinds of havoc crawling all over him and if Ganon is sent off the stage its game over. Jigglypuff has a far easier time chasing most characters off the stage than even Metaknight due to his raw aerial speed.

Most people make a severe mistake thinking Puff has a non-existant ground game. His grab game alone is better than every other ground option he has, only better ones being a iDA which has considerable knockback and speed. NAir is disgusting sometimes with its extended hitbox good knockback and practically instant startup time.

However it should be noted that once ou connect a Flame Choke on Puff he is never, ever getting away from you. Puff's roll and getup attack is terrible, predictable and short ranged to a good tech chasing Ganon. Seriously when I see Puff on the ground I can tech chase the poor thing all day long till I get as much damage as I like on him.

However theres one thing I also learnt, if Ganondorf's hits are like a bus full of fat people to most other characters. To Jigglypuff its like being struck by a meteor hurtling through the atmosphere at several thousand miles per hour. First off is UAir is a horribly punishing move, it outranges all of Puff's options in the air.

Ganon's BAir intercepts Puff's SH moves quite sufficiently, Puff's Pound has a certain blind spot where after the initial hitbox the BAir can easily outpriotize the remaining hitbox. Actually if you're even lucky enough to connect with a fresh one near the ledge, I've seen it KO Puff at only 55% on smaller stages. Aerial Wizkick is the single biggest killer of Jigglypuff who thinks he has control of the air its huge priority and hitbox and early kill (60-70%).

Here is a raw fact, Ganon's DA completely flattens Puff, absolutely destroys him. This is a lethal killing move and it will kill Puff extremely extremely early, even the Pound's freakish priority cannot stop him getting run over. Also one of the msot important things to remember when fighting Puff is the first few seconds are important. Out of Puff's moves he does not have a single move besides Pound and his grab which have enough knockback to stun Ganon longer than it takes him to finish the move. It means you are guaranteed a hit almost straight off the mark if you watch out for those two moves.

DAir -> Rest will not kill Ganondorf until extremely late percentages where quite frankly it'd be easier to kill him by just BAir or FAir'ing Ganon off the stage. Nevertheless DrillRest is quite easy to pull off on Ganondorf but actually connecting with it is a whole different matter.

Either way whilst Puff has an awful lot of options on Ganon in the end Ganon's raw power and weight actually gives him a major advantage which actually re-balances the scale.
 

Mister E

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i've got the feeling that this isn't going anywhere... Ganon mains will say 60:40 Cuz they haven't played any good enough jiggs and jiggs mains will say 60:40 in Jigglys Favor cuz We think he's too easy to gimp...

After Matchup experiense i've fought a ganon main with more skillz in brawl than me... he ***** with Ganon... When i figth him i almost always use Jiggs (not Wario) becouse i'm faving a lot more fun using her against him... Ganons don't know how to figth her... they underestimate her... and they get spanked... figthing a Jiggly is not like figthing a ligther version of Kirby that can use pound...
 

Ray_Kalm

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i've got the feeling that this isn't going anywhere... Ganon mains will say 60:40 Cuz they haven't played any good enough jiggs and jiggs mains will say 60:40 in Jigglys Favor cuz We think he's too easy to gimp...

After Matchup experiense i've fought a ganon main with more skillz in brawl than me... he ***** with Ganon... When i figth him i almost always use Jiggs (not Wario) becouse i'm faving a lot more fun using her against him... Ganons don't know how to figth her... they underestimate her... and they get spanked... figthing a Jiggly i not like figthing a ligther version of Kirby that can use pound...
Would you consider "Puff" a good Jiggly? If so, I played and beat him several times. That was months ago, though.
 

Maniclysane

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I played Gleam earlier today, and I'm pretty sure it's 60:40 Jiggz. Pound to double uair is pretty much a combo, sometimes an nair if they're at a low enough percent. Our aerials out prioritize murder choke so it's not much of a problem. Ganons uair sounds good on paper, but I didn't have much of a problem getting by.

On the other hand, every mistake I made Gleam capitalized on. It took me two mistakes to loose one of my stock. I screwed up one of my rising pounds and his dair ***** me so hard. I wasn't sure if I wanted to pound to uair any more. The matches were sorta laggy, and after like, two it was too laggy to even play. If any other ganons want to play me on WiFi I'm all for it.

(Btw I underestimated Ganondorf. After playing Gleam I realized the one I usually play has a really weird Ganon play style. He's not his main.)
 

Ray_Kalm

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I played Gleam earlier today, and I'm pretty sure it's 60:40 Jiggz. Pound to double uair is pretty much a combo, sometimes an nair if they're at a low enough percent. Our aerials out prioritize murder choke so it's not much of a problem. Ganons uair sounds good on paper, but I didn't have much of a problem getting by.

On the other hand, every mistake I made Gleam capitalized on. It took me two mistakes to loose one of my stock. I screwed up one of my rising pounds and his dair ***** me so hard. I wasn't sure if I wanted to pound to uair any more. The matches were sorta laggy, and after like, two it was too laggy to even play. If any other ganons want to play me on WiFi I'm all for it.

(Btw I underestimated Ganondorf. After playing Gleam I realized the one I usually play has a really weird Ganon play style. He's not his main.)
Who won overall? And, I'll play you.
 

Gleam

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Who won overall? And, I'll play you.
I won the first match by just one stock. It was close, very close. The second match is where we started getting lag, but I think he was beating me during that time so I'd give it to him there.

After that, it just got too laggy for any of us to handle I think right?
 

Dr. Hyde

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I recently played DesNuts in a friendlies since he was working on his Jiggly and listen. I love Puff. Puff can have advantages on certain stage where Ganon usually has an advantage but over all no, Jiggly doesn't have a completely advantage in the match-up.

I'm not saying this from a biased POV, I'm saying this from what I saw.

Ganon stays on the ground and plays the game as if it's Wario.
A choke is the death of Jiggly, pretty much or just extra damage, three chokes will give you a percent close enough to a stock.
The problem with chasing Ganon off the edge is if you are under me you will get stomped.

I understand if Jiggly is able to out space Ganondorf you can win. Keep in mind I believe from what I've seen Jiggly has to be more careful.
 

illinialex24

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Nah both characters need to be careful in this matchup. Ganondorf is sooo easily juggled. He can avoid it but its much harder and so if he screws up and gets offstage, he's done. But if Jigglypuff screws up and gets hit by Ganon's F-smash, say goodbye.
 

adumbrodeus

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Seriously guys, don't judge this by online. Even on minimal latency, it's a different game. If we wanna study their advantages and disadvantages, anyone wanna do in-person friendlies to study the two's metagames?
 

Dxkid

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I say its a 50:50 chance here Ganon has dull air but powerful ariler attacks but at the same time he has lag in his moves but look at jiggs she has Air moves that will **** ur *** i mean real bad

Ganon has a good match up here but ima go with my clan member on this one,Mr.E.
 

SaltyKracka

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I say its a 50:50 chance here Ganon has dull air but powerful ariler attacks but at the same time he has lag in his moves but look at jiggs she has Air moves that will **** ur *** i mean real bad

Ganon has a good match up here but ima go with my clan member on this one,Mr.E.
Argh, noobs. Why am I always the one who has to deal with them?
 

Metatitan

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Eh i dun really wanna get into specifics but its 60:40 jiggs. What with gimping, outspacing etc..... i really don't wanna have to explain anything just ask some other jigglypuff users.
 

knightzy

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i'll say 55:45 Gannondorf,both have no projectiles,but have 1 long ranged move(rollout and gannon kick respectivly)but they have ending lag,and can be seen coming from a mile away.
jiggs would approch,so shieldgrab and combo(any grab combo)since she is one of the lightest,(and you are one of the strongest)you should be able to get her to 50% i one grab combo,if not atleast 2,once she is there all you have to do is hit her with one of the many kill moves,my opinion many not matter to you but,just so you know,i play both jiggs and gannondorf.
 

Mister E

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Ok... i give up.. you Ganon mains wont listen to what we say or anything.... If your 100% sure that it's 60:40 in Ganons favor there is no reason to Discuss with you... you just don't listen to what we got to say so... i'm out

My thougths is this... The one with the most experiense with this matchup will win... The figthing styles are so diffrent that it's really impossible to tell who's est in this matchup if we don't get a Really good Jiggly to a figth a realy good Ganon (offline)
 

Blad01

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Uair is pretty much the keyword in this match-up... It's just really good against Jiggs.

USmash / Bair / Full Jump Dair are also pretty good moves, but a lot more dangerous...

Anyways, i think this is probably 60 - 40 Ganon, or 55 - 45 Ganon, but i agree with Mister E :

The figthing styles are so diffrent that it's really impossible to tell who's est in this matchup
 

:034:

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From the responses in this thread, I'd go with 50:50.

Ganondorf mains say 60:40
Jiggs mains say 40:60
Outsiders mostly say 50:50

So yeah.
 

ZenJestr

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Originally Posted by Mister E
The figthing styles are so diffrent that it's really impossible to tell who's est in this matchup
this pretty much sums up the match-up IMHO...



Ganon mains will say 60:40/55:45 Ganon's favor

Puff mains will say the same in Puff's favor

and a few will say 50:50...which is what I think it is...both sides have good points as to why its in their favor...so it really goes down to who's the better player out of the two. Seeing as how Ganon loves to capitalize on peoples mistakes (which for Jiggz could cost her a stock) and a mistake Ganon makes to Jiggz could get his gimped on drillrested...
 

Snowstalker

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I vote for 50:50, looking through this thread. POSSIBLY 55:45 Ganon. Ganon ***** on the ground, Jiggs ***** in the air. It all evens out.
 

RhedKing

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I agree with 50:50, but i think maybe gannon mains and Jigg mains should look to the incredible possibilities of doubles matches, seriously it would be solid ****.
 

PK-ow!

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There's only one way to settle this.

WITH ROCKS

Sorry, wrong character meme.

: With a Ganon vs. Jiggs boards Wifi smashfest.

We disagree, but we're hovering around neutral, at least. So while it would be a fallacy of the middle ground to say anything conclusive from this, it suggests that maybe if all parties could see how they fare against each other in a concentrated set of matches, some beliefs closer to reality may emerge.
And we'd have more hard data to back up the number we put down.

And everyone gets matchup experience!


Come on, Ganon vs. Jiggs... it'll be fun! Put it on youtube as a playlist or something.
 

TP

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There's only one way to settle this.

WITH ROCKS

Sorry, wrong character meme.

: With a Ganon vs. Jiggs boards Wifi smashfest.

We disagree, but we're hovering around neutral, at least. So while it would be a fallacy of the middle ground to say anything conclusive from this, it suggests that maybe if all parties could see how they fare against each other in a concentrated set of matches, some beliefs closer to reality may emerge.
And we'd have more hard data to back up the number we put down.

And everyone gets matchup experience!


Come on, Ganon vs. Jiggs... it'll be fun! Put it on youtube as a playlist or something.
I found a problem with your plan.

It would certainly be fun, but it would not be anything near conclusive.
 

Ray_Kalm

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Actually... Ganon pretty much ***** in the airs too :D On the ground... Not really that much.
No.. It's actually the other way around. Ganon's air game is basically all defensive or predictably played.

Guessing mid-air jumps, for example, and punishing with UAirs.
 

adumbrodeus

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There's only one way to settle this.

WITH ROCKS

Sorry, wrong character meme.

: With a Ganon vs. Jiggs boards Wifi smashfest.

We disagree, but we're hovering around neutral, at least. So while it would be a fallacy of the middle ground to say anything conclusive from this, it suggests that maybe if all parties could see how they fare against each other in a concentrated set of matches, some beliefs closer to reality may emerge.
And we'd have more hard data to back up the number we put down.

And everyone gets matchup experience!


Come on, Ganon vs. Jiggs... it'll be fun! Put it on youtube as a playlist or something.
As I said before, online has lag and latency, latency is the biggest problem here because that's the input gap, and since it varies from match to match, it's near impossible to have an honest estimate of their abilities.

As I said, offline smashfest, just recognize that it's important to not take the actual results of a given game into account. Personal skill plays a major factor. Instead, take a look at the flow of the match, understand what works and what doesn't and why. I've lost to falcon mains with Ganondorf before, but it's pretty easy to tell how limiting the dtilt is against him if you use it consistently and are spacing properly from those matches.


Twilight wins this round
Hey! I said it first, last page (when somebody else brought up wifi).
 

TP

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Hey! I said it first, last page (when somebody else brought up wifi).
Yes, but you didn't do it in a comedic fashion and you didn't imply that you were still completely open to the idea of a Wifi smashfest. It isn't the point, it's how you get the point across. :laugh:
 

A2ZOMG

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Guys, as much as I love Ganondorf, I seriously don't think this matchup is in Ganon's favor at all. The one thing you need to learn is that Jigglypuff is not a bad character in Brawl.

See, the thing about Jigglypuff is she is very good at punishing Ganon. Much better at punishing than Ganon is. Now, unlike someone like Sonic, she actually has some very powerful attacks with which to punish with. She can still sorta B-air WOP and have it combo into itself. Her F-air is a good KO move at high percents, and D-air -> trip -> rest is deadly and the D-air can be very difficult to deal with if the Puff knows how to space.

She is also definitely one of the better characters at gimping Ganondorf. If she F-airs or B-airs your midair jump, it is EXTREMELY difficult to make it back to the stage.

Her F-smash is still good in Brawl. It's a slightly worse version of Kirby's, which is gay as hell and very strong.

One of the things my friend teh_spammerer has said to critique me is that "you kinda do the same thing over and over again." I pointed out he 3stocked my Ganondorf with Jiggs and like only took 3 hits. And he said "well that's cause Ganon sucks and is forced to do the same thing over and over again."

This has to be at least 6/4 in Jiggs favor. It's not a neutral matchup at all.
 

:034:

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One of the things my friend teh_spammerer has said to critique me is that "you kinda do the same thing over and over again." I pointed out he 3stocked my Ganondorf with Jiggs and like only took 3 hits. And he said "well that's cause Ganon sucks and is forced to do the same thing over and over again."
You bring this up again, but this honestly just sounds like a gap in player skill to me.
 
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