the TKD thread

[Kuares]

Say random thing I found out about IC's recovery. Nana is invincible for a stupidly long time but you can still hit her.

What this lets you do is when you're edge gaurding Up-B what you can do is wait for Nana to snap onto the ledge, wait for the ledge invunerablity to run out. Run off the ledge and shine Nana's feet(you can still hit her because of invincibility) the Shine hitbox becomes extended so that when Popo reels himself in he gets hit and falls to his doom.

So question now is, who plays against IC's regularly enough to see what they do?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kuares, that's really unnecessary. Popo is vulnerable all the way through up-B lol. All you have to do is wait for Nana to grab the ledge and then fall with a weak nair or Shine and you will gimp Popo. Nana will not let go off the ledge and Popo can't make it back. Works at any 0 and every character can do it.

 

[Conviction]

^ that was would have been helpful when the ics main here was still playing but ill remember it when fl comes up again

 

[Rizk18]

Not that I think Fox isn't underrated, but I think you guys are making him overrated. Yeah he's a good character and all, I think he has potential to be top 10, but not anywhere near top 5. Also Tkd, Pikachu is mediocre? Lol when was the last time you played a good Pikachu. Anther/Esam anyone? Another thing, Tkd what makes Fox so good with you is your playstyle and the way you think. It's pure skill, yes it has to do with the character Fox, but a lot of it is just you being smart in X matchup. Fox is great, but I think your skill as a player in general has a lot to do with it, not Fox.

 

[Kuro~]

Not that I think Fox isn't underrated, but I think you guys are making him overrated. Yeah he's a good character and all, I think he has potential to be top 10, but not anywhere near top 5. Also Tkd, Pikachu is mediocre? Lol when was the last time you played a good Pikachu. Anther/Esam anyone? Another thing, Tkd what makes Fox so good with you is your playstyle and the way you think. It's pure skill, yes it has to do with the character Fox, but a lot of it is just you being smart in X matchup. Fox is great, but I think your skill as a player in general has a lot to do with it, not Fox.

I don't think he said top 5 =/. It looked like he was just listing his opinion on da most viable. I agree fox isn't top 5 but he certainly is a top character. But that shouldn't matter like TKD said. As long as you truly enjoy using your character you'll get past any walls and trials that present themselves. That's a big reason i dropped pit after such dedication to him. I realized i wasn't enjoying him at all. It's also y i use fox now. I just love nearly all aspects about him. I love that he allows my creativity in this game to come forth with his ability to mix it up offensively. Like snake. The reason i like using mk is cuz i enjoy watching ppl call me gay as i time them out.

I also love deee upsmash

 

[Rizk18]

Just because you enjoy a character doesn't mean his hard MU's become any easier lol. Pikachu,IC,Sheik are deadly no matter what.

 

[Kuro~]

Just because you enjoy a character doesn't mean his hard MU's become any easier lol. Pikachu,IC,Sheik are deadly no matter what.

*sigh* now you're just being difficult.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Vids of the stuff we talked about TKD!!!

I'd love you forever!

 

[Rizk18]

*sigh* now you're just being difficult.

No, i'm just not in denial bro. Hard MU are hard.

 

[Conviction]

Oh really? I didn't know that. Everybody but mk has a hard mu, falco is in top with our exact hard mus, lucario has hard mus, pika has hard mus, tl has hard mus, see where this is going?

This whole argument is stupid and was mad un-needed yo. This is the tkd thread where we ask tkd for advice, help, and bounce ideas off each other. This isn't the "TKD Call Out" thread. This thread has been perfectly productive.

Last thing we need is flaming. If you have nothing productive, innovative, or even a question, then shut up.

Yeah people can say "umad dog" but this is the only thread where **** gets accomplished and I'm not letting this one go down. If you have a real problem with us or fox take it out of here.

Either make a post in a different thread, or go out to tournies and destory note-worthy Fox players and show us how bad he is to you.

Damn.

/salt

 

[Reyney]

everytime i read a post from tkd, i feel like i just improved a good deal at the game.
even if he isnt talking about my main.

tkd fo president

 

[Kuro~]

Spoiler

1) I didn't say they weren't hard. Not once. I CERTAINLY don't plan on using fox for sheik or pikachu or IC. I live in FLORIDA. We have the #1 sheik and the #1 pikachu. And i have snake for IC. I'm not wearing rose-colored glasses that blind me to me and my characters capabilities.
2) IF YOU ENJOY THE GAME YOU WILL GET PAST IT!!! If you despise it so much with fox, that's what secondaries are for. To help you better produce results while still enjoying the game! *legasp* look at that
3) Your right. I shouldn't even of responded in the first place iblis. I was just trying to clarify a supposed misunderstanding.

I'm done. I agree with iblis sentiments. This thread 2 good

 

[Conviction]

Haha it is gravy kuro, I wasn't aiming that you.

 

[Lightning93]

Iblis holding it down. Agree.

 

[Rizk18]

Oh really? I didn't know that. Everybody but mk has a hard mu, falco is in top with our exact hard mus, lucario has hard mus, pika has hard mus, tl has hard mus, see where this is going?

This whole argument is stupid and was mad un-needed yo. This is the tkd thread where we ask tkd for advice, help, and bounce ideas off each other. This isn't the "TKD Call Out" thread. This thread has been perfectly productive.

Last thing we need is flaming. If you have nothing productive, innovative, or even a question, then shut up.

Yeah people can say "umad dog" but this is the only thread where **** gets accomplished and I'm not letting this one go down. If you have a real problem with us or fox take it out of here.

Either make a post in a different thread, or go out to tournies and destory note-worthy Fox players and show us how bad he is to you.

Damn.

/salt

You wrote all this just because I stated something in one sentence? Wow dude. First, how am I flaming? 2nd, why would you bring up the argument that I have a problem with you guys or the Foxes? That's just stupid.
If you believe you can beat Pikas, Ic,and Sheiks with Fox then go for it. All I said was even if you love your character homo style take it up the a*s from them, it doesn't make the hard MU's any less harder just because you've fallin madddddlllyy in love with your char. How does this even make sense I don't know. Perfect example is DK vs D3 with standing infinites not banned. Lets say Cable is playing Atomsk, do you think the MU will be any less hard because the character he uses he loves using? NO! That doesn't make ANY sense. Wtf is this Yu-gi-oh? You trying to believe in the heart of the cards or sum random shiz?
I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone. I'm just thinking logically and not blinded by the fact that if I have intercourse with my char that he'll get me through anything. Just saying and god bless <3

 

[Conviction]

You wrote all this just because I stated something in one sentence? Wow dude. First, how am I flaming? 2nd, why would you bring up the argument that I have a problem with you guys or the Foxes? That's just stupid.
If you believe you can beat Pikas, Ic,and Sheiks with Fox then go for it. All I said was even if you love your character homo style take it up the a*s from them, it doesn't make the hard MU's any less harder just because you've fallin madddddlllyy in love with your char. How does this even make sense I don't know. Perfect example is DK vs D3 with standing infinites not banned. Lets say Cable is playing Atomsk, do you think the MU will be any less hard because the character he uses he loves using? NO! That doesn't make ANY sense. Wtf is this Yu-gi-oh? You trying to believe in the heart of the cards or sum random shiz?
I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone. I'm just thinking logically and not blinded by the fact that if I have intercourse with my char that he'll get me through anything. Just saying and god bless <3

You didn't make sense relating to my post what so ever. Do you just think everyone here thinks Fox's is the Jesus second coming? You have to get over yourself dog. Actually you agreed with me when I said Fox has hard MUs.

Thanks for supporting what I said against you. Now if you have nothing better to say, feel free to actually become a part of the community.

 

[Kuro~]

I'm pretty sure the main idea of that simple statement has been misconstrued to epic proportions by you Rizk. Just drop it...

 

[Rizk18]

Obviously you guys didn't read my post correctly. So by me saying 'I love Fox, if I love him this much, I can win any MU no doubt'...Um no, that's not how it works. I swear this really sounds like yugioh by believing in the heart of the cards. Eh w/e I really don't feel like saying stuff that I was gonna say anymore.

 

[Kuro~]

Obviously you guys didn't read my post correctly. So by me saying 'I love Fox, if I love him this much, I can win any MU no doubt'...Um no, that's not how it works. I swear this really sounds like yugioh by believing in the heart of the cards. Eh w/e I really don't feel like saying stuff that I was gonna say anymore.

Obviously you're misinterpreting the idea...

 

[Conviction]

Obviously you guys didn't read my post correctly. So by me saying 'I love Fox, if I love him this much, I can win any MU no doubt'...Um no, that's not how it works. I swear this really sounds like yugioh by believing in the heart of the cards. Eh w/e I really don't feel like saying stuff that I was gonna say anymore.

Because like the this post the rest of your stuff was going to be wrong. Tell me when you find us cheerleading Fox. We know are limits but it doesn't mean we can work around (others do it) and focus on out strengths too. If you can't comprehend what I'm telling you and you decide to blow because you misunderstand Kuro and want to be difficult have fun.

That was my last response regarding that.

Does anybody have anything on-topic to say? Or is it too late and this has dropped.

Lol Fox Boards the worst.

 

[Orion*]

Lets say Cable is playing Atomsk, do you think the MU will be any less hard because the character he uses he loves using? NO! That doesn't make ANY sense

Actually if you want to be logical for a few seconds and think past the one dimensional aspect of the game, but into the true nature of how we as people approach it in game. Basic psychology, especially in a tournament setting would tell you otherwise.

 

[Kuro~]

I DOOOOOO!!!

TKD, most of the mks i see you fight play very defensively and reactionary. How would you approach(not literally) a mk who was the aggressor? A punish and bait style or agression vs agression or camp vs agression? What would change about the way you'd play defensive mks?

In your opinion which type does better?

Oh ya and obviously ik that a mix is usually the best but i mean what the player does the majority of the match. For ex. a defensive mk who is simply being like m2k but gets a grab should go on the agression for possible followups. Or gets you in the air.

 

[Conviction]

Whenever BigLou decides to pull his MK out on me he is pretty aggressive. I recommend walking a lot make him whiff his moves you can punish. If he tilts you can SH over those and you can SH over Fsmash and Dsmash. Don't jump a lot or you are going to get SL'd, if you bait the SL you can **** the mess out of MK for it even if FF Cancels it.

That's all I can think of right now. I'll post more when I think of it or I'll just watch one of my vids vs him and see things that I can point out.

 

[Kuro~]

Whenever BigLou decides to pull his MK out on me he is pretty aggressive. I recommend walking a lot make him whiff his moves you can punish. If he tilts you can SH over those and you can SH over Fsmash and Dsmash. Don't jump a lot or you are going to get SL'd, if you bait the SL you can **** the mess out of MK for it even if FF Cancels it.

That's all I can think of right now. I'll post more when I think of it or I'll just watch one of my vids vs him and see things that I can point out.

Hmm. Ok.

Also about bair...sh auto cancel bair doesn't hit alot of characters. Is FF bair on shield still pretty safe for shield pressure?

Also does anyone ever use shine when you predict a glide toss? I was playing my friends wario and when i knew he was gonna go for the glide toss down combos i would Shine OoS and it stopped it cuz the invinci frames. obviously this can get baited. Just saying.

 

[Conviction]

I'd have to make a list of who it hits and doesn't.

I've never thought of shining for that. I usually just stop their motion while they are in the throw lag if I know they are going to glide toss like that.

 

[Kuro~]

I liked to shine cuz sometimes i can get a bdacus out of shine cuz it catches them offguard. And i can do it OoS pretty easy and it's faster. One thing i thought of with wario tires for a kill set up is reverse jump cancel toss down to bdacus. Similar to his down glide toss-->fsmash. But you have to bdacus out of the glide toss.

B4 you say it, yes ik there are much much simpler ways. I just like expanding options cuz you never know lol.

Could someone explain why diddy is 6-4? I mean, so far it doesn't seem like it's THAT bad.

 

[Conviction]

I can't even Bdacus (I want to learn now that I got platfrom canceling down, and after I learn Bdacus I want to learn how to B reverse my lasers) so I can't even comment on it lol. I do know Shine>Bdacus is a true combo though.

For Diddy I'll have to agree with 6-4 for now because I get beat by BigLou...a lot, even though I just think it's because he's a better player than me, I don't feel shut down by any of Diddy's options. Give me a month or something like that before I input what I really think about the MU

 

[Kuro~]

Thankfully i use to dual main falco with pit and learned bdacus then so bdacus is just a matter of changing the timing with it's respective characters lol.

 

[crifer]

platform canceling is so easy. But I think we europeans seem to have it easier to implement, lol. Or it´s just mr-r influence/inspiration :D
I think bdacus is pretty much useless. shine to bdacus seems sooo unsafe, I don´t think it´s worth it.
shine has like no range, and to bdacus after that... idk. We don´t have reliable setups like falco with dthrow or laser stun...
and b-reversaling lasers is just practice and pretty easy for me. at least SHTL B reversals are reaaaaaly easy.

 

[Conviction]

EU Fox flexing his tech skills.

Also: Lucas should scare you guys, he scares me. Have any of you played anybody on the level of Galeon or Pink Fresh? f***ing scary, way worse for me than playing a Snake, Falco, Diddy, Wario.

What you guys dont seem to get about Lucas's kill moves, hell, most characters' kill moves, (Marth/Meta/Snake in particular) is that even if you avoid those "reliable" bread-and-butter kill moves killing you, It's not like you're gonna live anyway.

Let me reiterate something that Junk taught me: All characters at high level play have their solid bread-and-butter kill moves/options. just some relevant character examples:
MetaKnight: Dsmash, Nair, UpB, Fsmash
Marth: Nair, Fsmash, UpB
Snake: Utilt, Ftilt, Bair

That doesn't mean that, once you get to kill percent, and you start playing "smartly and safely" that you're going to be able to just live to 200% every stock.... It means that the other player isn't going to put himself in laggy position by whiffing these attacks, instead, he's gonna kill you with his secondary moves once you get to the 120-150 range.

Secondary kill moves that are mad useful:
MetaKnight: Fsmash, Uair, Dair, Glide attack, Uthrow/Bthrow, Fair, half of the rest of his moveset.
Marth: Fair, Nair, Bair, UAir, Dsmash, half of the rest of his moveset.
Snake: Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Nades, Usmash, dash attack, More than half of the rest of his moveset.

And lo and behold, young theory crafter, if you have something to say in the realm of "Well a lot of these kill moves don't really kill well when they have expert-mode DI like most top players have"

Well, young one, These moves will still consistently put you in a bad position. See if Diddy's Bair or Fair doesn't kill you when you're at 140, You're still stuck trying to get to the ground safely while he has time to re-set his Nana tent and make your "landing lag" a living hell to deal with AND/OR force you to the ledge and set up a solid ledge-trap.

Do you see the point now guys, of discussing the futility of "reliable" kill moves? This isn't 2009, people are struggling and forcing to get their kills anymore, they either time you out or they hit you with a zoning move at 150 and you die due to the physics of the game.

Understanding this concept and knowing your characters' and your oponenets characters' options (when it comes time for killing) AND HOW to handle your character's zoning when you're in this situation, (chip damage ftw) Is one of the main things I think that seperates a lot of the mid-level players from the upper-middle players that are chipping away at the ceiling of higher level play.

Posting this here because I thought it was informative.

 

[Kuro~]

platform canceling is so easy. But I think we europeans seem to have it easier to implement, lol. Or it´s just mr-r influence/inspiration :D
I think bdacus is pretty much useless. shine to bdacus seems sooo unsafe, I don´t think it´s worth it.
shine has like no range, and to bdacus after that... idk. We don´t have reliable setups like falco with dthrow or laser stun...
and b-reversaling lasers is just practice and pretty easy for me. at least SHTL B reversals are reaaaaaly easy.

Bdacus is just an easier way of buffering an upsmash. It also goes the same distance as dacus. aka a bit farther than running upsmash. So even if you buffered a dash and upsmash bdacus goes farther iirc. For example, the nair to upsmash followup? Easier with bdacus. And more likely to work when you need it to cuz your starting asap.

I can't say anything about shine--->bdacus as far as whether it should work. I wouldn't mind testing it though.

I can do b-reversal SHTL consistently. I just can't stand in one place and do shtl everysingle time for like endless times in a row. i mess up still.

 

[crifer]

Bdacus is just an easier way of buffering an upsmash. It also goes the same distance as dacus. aka a bit farther than running upsmash. So even if you buffered a dash and upsmash bdacus goes farther iirc. For example, the nair to upsmash followup? Easier with bdacus. And more likely to work when you need it to cuz your starting asap.

I can't say anything about shine--->bdacus as far as whether it should work. I wouldn't mind testing it though.

I can do b-reversal SHTL consistently. I just can't stand in one place and do shtl everysingle time for like endless times in a row. i mess up still.

except bdacus can be ****ed up and not work, an running usmash should always come out xD

 

[Kuro~]

except bdacus can be ****ed up and not work, an running usmash should always come out xD

Practice. Your sitting there talking about how those techs above are easy...i rarely mess up bdacus anymore, if at all. And worse comes to worse it's just a dash attack which isn't putting you in any worse position than would upsmash.

Running upsmash would also be harder to buffer cuz you have to buffer the dash then wait and hold the direction after the dashs starts and then buffer upsmash at the same time. More ways to **** up than in bdacus.

I'm just saying, everything has it's uses, and bdacus does as well.

 

[JUDGE]

who uses shine as a killing setup in 2011?
that aint melee and even if you dont **** up the bdacus why dont you just go for a safe kill setup like dair,nair or OoS upsmash.
believe it or not its even more easier and safer than..shine xD

E: oh yeah and bufferung an running upsmash is way to complicated, true. you could mess up the the part where you have to flick your c stick for example.^^'

 

[Kuro~]

who uses shine as a killing setup in 2011?
that aint melee and even if you dont **** up the bdacus why dont you just go for a safe kill setup like dair,nair or OoS upsmash.
believe it or not its even more easier and safer than..shine xD

E: oh yeah and bufferung an running upsmash is way to complicated, true. you could mess up the the part where you have to flick your c stick for example.^^'

1) You obviously missed the original post...on the whole shine thing. Cuz i'm really gonna run up and shine someone when i obviously have better options. Of course i'm not gonna use it OoS. I'd rather use upsmash, drill, or hell even nair is better than shine OoS. Read the beginning tyvm.

2) There's more inputs required and more things to time. No matter what more inputs=more opportunities to mess it up.

P.S. i wasn't arguing shine-->bdacus validity.

I was arguing that bdacus isn't useless.

Damn so much hate.

 

[Rizk18]

Tkd I have a real question. Sometimes (mostly MK), when I dair someone when their at about 85+%, I buffer my u-smash but their shield comes out first and they shield grab. Could this be because sometimes I only hit them with 1 or 2 dairs?

Edit: whats bdacus

Edit2: fox cant dacus

 

[Conviction]

Every character can dacus, set your Z button to attack and try dacusing again. It works.

 

[Rizk18]

Pikachu too? Peach?

 

[crifer]

EVERY CHARACTER!

Try this: Go into training mode, pick an item you like (nana f.e.) and try a dacus. If you input it right you should be able to pick up the nana before the usmash comes out, because the dash attack (wherever it comes out or not) should pick the item up.

 

[Conviction]

Every character means every character so yeah, Peach and Pikachu lol.