The Southern Ontario Power Rankings - 31/07/14 Update

[Iliad]

K here's the thing Fuddo. If you want to maintain neutrality to prevent any stage from being a CP to any other character, well then. Congratulations, you don't have a single starter for use in the game.

I adore BF for marth. It's prolly my favourite stage for marth. It's prolly marth's top stage. Because my marth is good on it, does that infringe on every other character I play against? Is BF being good for marth suddenly making it a terribly horrific stage for every other character that isn't marth?

Think through your logic man. Honestly, cause the system has been honed over the years. We haven't been playing with our thumbs up our ***** for 3 years saying "dur I laik this stayj cuz it lookz perty". Yoshi's island is ****ing broken as **** for sonic. It's also captain falcon's best stage (IMO atleast). It's prolly one of DK's best stages. Should we get rid of it from the start list because of those three being quite good on it? Did you know Lylat is fantastic to CP against Falco? Well maybe it shouldn't be a starter if it has such great advantage against spacies and even their top tier representative. You know what, I don't think smashville should be a starter either because snake can put his C4 on the moving platform, and because falco can standing CG when he's on that platform.

As much as you guys gripe about us being ****s when we say this, it genuinely comes down to: "Get better." Do you think I ***** ICs when I started off? Do you think I even came close to going even with them? Any ICs I met in bracket used to be an auto-loss. Now it's an auto-win. Perhaps it was because of my stage choice. Yeah that must've been it.

Oh wait. I 2-0ed the best ice climbers in Canada (debateably NA) on BF and SV. You know what Swordgard said to me after I said maybe he wasn't familiar with the marth matchup? "No excuse. I'll get better."

 

[fUddO]

FD is one of Pit's best stages. In many ways, arguing it off the starter list is against my own interests. Stop implying I'm a scrub.

It just seems logical that perhaps one of the most banned stages in the game is on the starter list. The whole point of stage striking is to find that happy medium between the 2 competitors. Yes, there is no single neutral in the game. There are a series of different stages (the starter list) that we choose from in order to best even the playing field for the first match. No one should be playing their fist match with a stage-related disadvantage.

 

[LooftWaffles]

No one should be playing their fist match with a stage-related disadvantage.

Unless Im mistaken, stage striking happens BEFORE characters are selected. If you choose a character that isnt ideal for the stage chosen, its on you.

 

[fUddO]

Unless Im mistaken, stage striking happens BEFORE characters are selected. If you choose a character that isnt ideal for the stage chosen, its on you.

Set Procedure

1. Player Priority is determined if it can not be agreed on. (See below for details)
2. Each Team selects one controller port to use for each Player.
3. Each Team selects one character for each Player. A double blind pick may be called by any player.
4. The first game is played on a Stage selected from the Starter Stage List either by mutual consent or through the Stage Striking Method. The order of stage striking will be 1-2-2-1 (Team 1 strikes a stage, followed by Team 2 striking two stages, with Team 1 then striking one of the two remaining stages).
5. The first match is played.
6. The team that lost the previous match may opt to re-pick controller ports (with themselves picking first).
7. The Team that won the previous match may announce one "Stage Ban" if they have not already done so in this set.
8. The Team that lost the previous match announces the stage for the next match from either the Starter or the Counterpick Stage List. Any Stage named as a "Stage Ban" by the either Team may not be selected. No Stage may be used by a Team that has already won on that Stage in this set.
9. The Team that won the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
10. The Team that lost the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
11. The next match is played.
12. Repeat steps 6-11 for all proceeding matches.

Emphasis mine. Ironically, it calls for you to strike 6 stages on a 5 stage list.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Wow, I always thought it was the other way around

 

[Iliad]

Unless Im mistaken, stage striking happens BEFORE characters are selected. If you choose a character that isnt ideal for the stage chosen, its on you.

This.

Also fuddo, I'm not implying you're a scrub, I'm straight up telling you that you are. If you think swapping out FD with PS2 would see PS2 getting banned less than FD gets banned, you're completely off your rocker. You're going off of theories rather than the tangible, just because you feel a stage is unfair to the cast because it's good for some of them.

I challenge you and entreat you to name a single other stage you think would be an appropriate swap for FD. I will be here all night.

 

[fUddO]

Isn't it ironic how you ignored my post pointing you were wrong?

 

[Iliad]

I find it more ironic how you didn't prove anything wrong, as you stated that since it's the most banned stage it shouldn't be a starter. Yet you don't seem to be able to suggest anything else that would be banned less.

As for striking after character selection, well good for them. I've never played it that way, and I never will. And I've yet to meet a TO who actually imposes that rule. Unless the actions affect or delay tournament progression it's up to the players. Waiting for character select until after stage striking hardly does either, whereas saying with your friend "this map selection is stupid, let's play this stage for game one." could infact cause your match to take an inordinate amount of time, which would in turn delay the tournament.

I'm gato, I have metal joints.
Beat me up and earn 15 silver points.

 

[fUddO]

Maybe because it's a rule that doesn't matter, so it shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.

The reason FD shouldn't be a starter is because there are other stages that might actually be chosen for game 1. As far as I know FD is never played in game 1, while other stages might actually be seen once in a blue moon. Most of the hatred for PS2 is due to inexperience with the stage, rather than any rational discussion. Castle Siege, Delfino, and PS1 are also pretty good options that don't really favour one character over the other.

Theoretically, every stage in the starter pool should be picked frequently, depending on the matchup. FD is never picked. Why is it so bad that we use a different stage in the hopes that we see some diversity?

 

[Patches]

I really don't see the point in this argument anymore. It's going nowhere.

As for PS2. I think I'm gonna start using that stage more, I've never seen it like that. Then again, I've never really played on it. Reading that giant wall of text that Jon linked too, it seems quite a legitimate stage now. Even if there are some ****ed up broken parts, it's still legit. Much more legit than PS1, to say the least.

 

[Tin Man]

As for striking after character selection, well good for them. I've never played it that way, and I never will. And I've yet to meet a TO who actually imposes that rule. Unless the actions affect or delay tournament progression it's up to the players. Waiting for character select until after stage striking hardly does either, whereas saying with your friend "this map selection is stupid, let's play this stage for game one." could infact cause your match to take an inordinate amount of time, which would in turn delay the tournament.

You pick characters and then strike. Thats the order in the rules, and I have enforced it on you when you play me. In any case, remember this rule from now onwards at any tournament that obey's the unity rule set.

Some other things have been mentioned about starters. Its an interesting debate as to the criteria a stage must follow in order to be deemed a starter. As far as I know, this has never been publicly released by the BBR/BRC. That being said, assuming interference issues, FD is a neutral. Assuming match ups is the case, then FD is not the most neutral.

It would seem as if the BBR decided to give priority to match ups looking at the 3.1 rule set and seeing the different recommended starters. Some of the arguments present, I think need to be further explained as well. PS1 is known for timeouts. How is does that affect the neutral aspect of a stage, or whether the stage should be deemed a starter. Looking at the 2 definitions of a neutral, it offers quite a bit of interference with the layout of the transformations, yet not so much at all in terms of match ups.

For examples sake. They call me the infamous for timeouts but I've never timed out anyone in tournament on PS1 since November. Castle Siege yes, Yoshi's Island yes, I've even been timed out on Pictochat (Super Sonic Snake at the SSS). Took the same team to PS1 and it didn't result in a timeout. TBH, I've never timed out anyone with Olimar since November.

 

[Iliad]

As far as I know FD is never played in game 1, while other stages might actually be seen once in a blue moon.

Wait what?

Most of the hatred for PS2 is due to inexperience with the stage, rather than any rational discussion.

I hope you see what I'm doing here.

*edit*

In any case, remember this rule from now onwards at any tournament that obey's the unity rule set.

lol no.

 

[Patches]

Not that choosing a character before stage selection should mattern once you know a person. You know what characters they're likely to play. For example, iliad and I. I know he's capable of playing marth and falco. I'd try to avoid SV and FD. He knows I'm able to play game and watch and dedede. Hed be likely to avoid PS1 or FD.

 

[fUddO]

Although it's definitely good to know for everyone planning to attend COT5.

 

[infiniteV115]

This is a probably a bit of a vague question, but how "big" of a tourney is this one on May 7th going to be? I'm just worried that there will be so many big names that I'll be eliminated very quickly, and I don't want to lose my tourney virginity without some dignity. And how is this tourney going to be formatted? That is, with regards to pools, brackets, etc. I never really knew how the system worked. XD

 

[Tin Man]

lol no.

1 comes before the other. You are supposed to Select Characters before stage striking. Disadvantage those who main multiple characters? What about the other way around...

None the less, rules are rules, and there are consequences to them not being followed.

This is a probably a bit of a vague question, but how "big" of a tourney is this one on May 7th going to be? I'm just worried that there will be so many big names that I'll be eliminated very quickly, and I don't want to lose my tourney virginity without some dignity. And how is this tourney going to be formatted? That is, with regards to pools, brackets, etc. I never really knew how the system worked. XD

You come to a tourney to find out how good you are. They are a test of skill. You don't know how well you'll do until you actually go. The quantity of the May 7th tourney depends. I would think its safe to say that over 32 people will arrive. That suggests that there will be 8 pools of 4 people per pool and top 2 make it out. I'm not sure what your definition of dignity is, but getting last place does not make anyone look down at you. Going backwards would suggest losing dignity, but there is no back for you to go. The only way you can go is up, and by showing up to the tourney, you would have gained dignity that can never be taken away. Sticking around regardless of the outcome generates you even more dignity. If you would really like to talk it out, PM me your MSN and I'll be as informative as I can (I also got skype and AiM).

 

[Jasuke]

I love you guys. Its always fun to pop in and check these threads XD

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'm in a significantly better mood today.

I've decided, w/e, I'm fine with the new starter list.

I don't have to care about winning anymore, I'm just going to play for fun.

Also, ftr, I have complete stage knowledge of Picto, PS2, Lylat, RC, Japes, PS1, YI:Brawl, Norfair, and a number of other stages I'm too lazy to list.

 

[swordgard]

I'm in a significantly better mood today.

I've decided, w/e, I'm fine with the new starter list.

I don't have to care about winning anymore, I'm just going to play for fun.

Also, ftr, I have complete stage knowledge of Picto, PS2, Lylat, RC, Japes, PS1, YI:Brawl, Norfair, and a number of other stages I'm too lazy to list.

I don't understand.

You have complete knowledge of all of these stages?

How do you not win lol?


And you don't care about winning anymore? Anybody who doesn't make it to top 8(at canadian regionals) can't legitimately say they ever cared about winning for a long time, because they certainly are not taking the steps to get there. Why are you "quitting" playing to win? Is it because you lost hope to place?


edit: Iliad, your "ics accomplishments" are getting old. Its not like anybody in here is particularily good at the matchup either(chester used to bring me to last stock with marth and he didn't even main him).

double edit: Tin, ally bans depending on what character hes playing. If hes snake, hel ban delfino(lol walkoffs with solo cg that lasts to 80% : D ), if hes MK hel ban BF because of nair>ice block.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

*EDIT at top because I'm cool like that* Of course I don't win. Lack of character knowledge, MU experience, and ability might influence that.

iunno, I'm just... tired lately. In every respect. I think I just need to get away for a while, hence my trip to Scotland for a year.

My main issue is, no matter how hard I try to play another character, no matter how much I want to win, I just want to play, and win as, Ganondorf. But I can't. Any random player can just pick Ice Climbers, Falco, or Sheik, and my chance of winning, already low, drops to almost zero. And I just had the revelation while reading up on Melee stuff that Ganondorf is, in fact, worse than Melee Pichu, matchup-wise.

Every character in this game I genuinely want to play either has almost no depth (King Dedede), is mid-tier and absolutely ruined by one or two characters (Fox, Wolf, Luigi), or is low-tier and ruined by everyone above low-tier (Ganondorf, Link, Sheilda, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Pokémon Trainer).

Or, that character is Metaknight. Though I do somewhat like playing Metaknight, I don't want to pick the best character in the game. I really don't want to just be another Metaknight main.

And then, among the people I play against most often, I'm miles behind them on character knowledge because I spent so much time playing Ganondorf.

Not to mention I can't powershield because of that ****ing spring in the L-button. My timing is messed up because of having used CC.

Anyways, I'm ranting/rambling at this point, so I'll stop.

 

[Tin Man]

Or, that character is Metaknight. Though I do somewhat like playing Metaknight, I don't want to pick the best character in the game. I really don't want to just be another Metaknight main.

lo l

 

[Iliad]

Sword you sound salty. Is it because I beat brose's climbers? The one thing you could never do? :D

 

[Supreme Dirt]

But

Ambrose's Ice Climbers are free.

I thought this was an established fact?

 

[Tin Man]

But

Ambrose's Ice Climbers are free.

I thought this was an established fact?

As much as this meme is a troll, Iliad. You do realize Inle beat Ambrose with the same character...

Spoiler

And he beat fool, which u could only do when he went Jiggly puff game 1

/

 

[Toronto Joe]

Googs has a pictochat fetish

Also what kind of ****storm hit this thread while i was sleeping lmao

 

[Tin Man]

Unity ruleset son, read your text message btw, and respond to it lol.

 

[cMeDu]

It's true wolf does have some horrid matchups, but that's why you second metaknight against DDD, wario, and pikachu....

No other character shuts down wolf, and wolf does well against metaknight. Not even, but he has the tools to beat him.

Then again, why go wolf when you can go falco or metaknight xDDD

 

[-Googs]

PICTOOOOOOOOOOOOCHAT

official whitby CP

 

[Supreme Dirt]

**** Metaknight.

I hate that bat so ****ing much.

Except for shuttle loop.

Shuttle loop is my favourite character in the game.

 

[DarkISDA]

Falco get crapped on by Pikachu and Ice Climbers.

Just go Marth.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Nah, I've found a character who gets crapped on by Olimar and Metaknight instead.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

bowser????

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I was considering it for a long time, but no.

Basically I picked a character who can carry over between Brawl and Melee.

I very well might have a pocket Bowser. I mean, I have a pocket Ganon, Samus, Sheilda, and Jiggz, after all.

 

[Toronto Joe]

Is there an ignore button on this site?

 

[Tin Man]

Is there an ignore button on this site?

1. Go to the profile of the person you want to ignore.
2. Click on "User Lists"
3. Click "Add to Ignore List"

You can still see that they posted, but you won't know what they're saying, and you can see what they said if someone you don't have on ignore quotes them.

 

[MK26]

tin, are you gonna follow the unity ruleset to a T, or would you consider making changes?

 

[Tin Man]

tbch, I'm gonna have 7 starters, 7 cp's. Everything else will be followed to a T yes. It's actually especially convenient since we're Canadian, we don't have to follow it to a T for our tourneys to count.

 

[fUddO]

That sounds like the best of both worlds, and I have a feeling that's what will happen with the Unity Ruleset anyways.

T.O. TOs are awesome.

 

[-Googs]

tbch, I'm gonna have 7 starters, 7 cp's. Everything else will be followed to a T yes. It's actually especially convenient since we're Canadian, we don't have to follow it to a T for our tourneys to count.

whut


that uoit status

 

[Tin Man]

^ this guuuuuuuuuy

BTW, check out the purple name guys :D