The Southern Ontario Power Rankings - 31/07/14 Update

[Supreme Dirt]

I won't be attending any future tournaments in the GTA.

*EDIT* This isn't so much over FD being a starter, as it is over it being a 5 stage starter list with BF/SV/FD on it.

We're not even US, why the **** are we even using their ruleset?

*EDITEDIT* You know what, fine. I'll play by this ruleset.

Time to learn Diddy/ICs.

 

[swordgard]

I won't be attending any future tournaments in the GTA.

*EDIT* This isn't so much over FD being a starter, as it is over it being a 5 stage starter list with BF/SV/FD on it.

We're not even US, why the **** are we even using their ruleset?

*EDITEDIT* You know what, fine. I'll play by this ruleset.

Time to learn Diddy/ICs.

Why not?

10whys

 

[Supreme Dirt]

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT AMERICA.

We have no say in ruleset discussion, why the **** should we follow it?

Also **** it, I don't like playing as Diddy, and nobody likes playing against the ICs.

I'll do CoT5 and then I'm done.

 

[-Googs]

dont use diddy he sucks

use weegee he's da besssss

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Shutup Googs you suck.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

dont use luigi, use lucas

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If I'm going to use a Mother kid, I'll use Ness.

Ness da bess.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

ness gets 0-death'd by marth, use lucas instead

 

[AvariceX]

ness gets 0-death'd by marth, use lucas instead

Because he's easier to grab and also gets 0-deathed (even easier)? oO

 

[Tin Man]

Let's see....Battlefield and Smashville. That's only 2.

I still don't understand why FD is a starter. It's probably the 2nd most banned stage after RC.

I'm within walking distance of Scarborough Town Centre.

And do you/anyone else know what the entry fee for the tourney will be? And are there separate fees for singles and doubles, or just one? I would assume the former, but I just want to make sure.

If you're near the Scarborough Town Centre, if I'm ever staying at my aunts for a tournament, I can definitely help you out.

And generally, $10 each. Singles and doubles are seperate.

they're more neutral than seige and stuff like delfino which was once a neutral

FD is WAY worse than both siege and delfino.

Fuddo seriously lol?

To address all of this. There are 2 definitions that are being mixed up here. Allow me to clarify.

There is the definition that a neutral is a stage that offers the least amount of interference with the characters as possible. in this manner, FD, and BF are some of the most neutral stages in the game. Each one has characteristics as to how one would be more neutral that the other. The edge of Final Destination interferes more with characters in comparison to the edge of Battlefield. then again, FD is a flat stage, no platforms. Whether platforms are considered as an acceptable element of what is neutral is something I don't care about tbh. Joe and cMeDu are under This belief of what is a neutral.

I as well as Fuddo see it this way. Phiddlesticks did explain it, but i'll drop my 2 cents anyways. The second definitions says a neutral is referring to the matchup and not to the properties of the stage. The most neutral stage is a stage that offers the most even matchups for every matchup possible. Looking at DDD, there is evidence that several characters perform better there than on other stages. Diddy Kong, ICs, and Falco are obvious but think some more here. DDD is excellent here against character he can CG. Pikachu has a lot of room also. There are simply other stages that offer more even matchups than FD does.

Shutup Googs you suck.

 

[-Googs]

pictochat still the best

 

[-Googs]

If I'm going to use a Mother kid, I'll use Ness.

Ness da bess.

we'll settle this in bracket pools.

 

[Iliad]

Alright. For the record to the newblood to the scene, BF/SV/FD/YI and LC have almost always been the universal 5 start stage select for tournaments in the smash scene since its first inception. To say "I'm not going to play under these stupid rules" is incredibly scrubby, and shows that you have no drive to overcome adverse circumstances. Do you think ANY of the old blood enjoyed stages like delfino, castle siege, or PS1 as being legal starters? Hell no. But we put up with it, and we played it, and while we may have whined amongst one another in matches, we never once disregarded it, nor did we threaten to quit the scene.

I'm going to say the most cliché thing ever, but fact of the matter is that it's true. If you are genuinely worried about FD against someone, BAN IT. Simple as that.

Also, Googs gonna **** ontario next tourney. Unless he has to play hamilton. He's got a mental block on those crazy steel town kids.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

No, I'm just going to flat out say you are wrong Iliad. FD has no place being on a 5-stage starter list. Just because it has always been that way does not mean it is correct.

 

[cMeDu]

Iliad, I believe PS1 is more neutral than lylat, although the arguments against both are similar

FD has the same place as lylat Dirt.
Supreme dirt let's say you are facing ice climbers

Strike FD and Smashville tadaaa

falco?

FD and Smashville tadaaaa

Diddy?

FD and Smashville

This in no way makes falco or icies or diddy broken AT ALL. Compare it to the old 7 stage/9 stage stagelist where a falco will always end up playing on either lylat, seige, or PS1 in game 1

In fact, I think this stagelist is MORE fair than the 7 stage and 9 stage BY FAR. If you don't wanna play on FD, ban it.
I honestly cannot think of a single character that is buffed on 3/5 of those stages can you?

 

[Tin Man]

Edit: ^ Battlefield is being severely overlooked. That stage is also a STRONG CP for ICs, Falco, and Diddy. So much so that King Ace would ban it vs Ambrose and Ally would ban it vs Swordgard (just examples)

Alright. For the record to the newblood to the scene, BF/SV/FD/YI and LC have almost always been the universal 5 start stage select for tournaments in the smash scene since its first inception. To say "I'm not going to play under these stupid rules" is incredibly scrubby, and shows that you have no drive to overcome adverse circumstances. Do you think ANY of the old blood enjoyed stages like delfino, castle siege, or PS1 as being legal starters? Hell no. But we put up with it, and we played it, and while we may have whined amongst one another in matches, we never once disregarded it, nor did we threaten to quit the scene.

I'm going to say the most cliché thing ever, but fact of the matter is that it's true. If you are genuinely worried about FD against someone, BAN IT. Simple as that.

Also, Googs gonna **** ontario next tourney. Unless he has to play hamilton. He's got a mental block on those crazy steel town kids.

I must express my strong appreciation for the grandpas that remained suttle.

 

[fUddO]

TBH, it's not even that bad for me. I main Pit. The only character that really scares me on FD is ICs.

That being said, I think that the "old blood" mentality is part of the problem here. FD's been legal since Melee days, and in Melee, it was very much a neutral stage due to the nature of the game being less campy. However, Brawl is a different game, and it's astounding that it's taken this long before someone's actually noticed how polarizing FD is.

That said, I think that the best move for Canada would be to follow the US. After all, we go to their major tournaments to compete. While I don't agree completely with the ruleset, the point of the committee is to come to a universal compromise.

Also, I want to point out that with the 7 stage starter list, it didn't really change anything for the old blood. We still ended up on SV/BF all the time anyways when we played them.

 

[Tin Man]

Fuddo, can you link me those MLG stats. They look mad interesting.

 

[fUddO]

I found them in the Unity Ruleset discussion, so it's technically 2nd hand information. I'd say you should PM AlphaZealot about them.

 

[Patches]

I agree with fuddo. The only threatening character on FD should be someone like ICs. Diddy and Falco can be beaten, if you play smart. Same with ICs, however it is a lot harder, seeing once you get grabbed, theres a good chance you just lost your stock.

Seriously. I dont want to be rude, but get over the fact that FD is a neutral. It's one of the best neutrals there are, considering how flat the stage is, and the lack of platforms. That's the most basic you can get.

 

[fUddO]

I agree with fuddo. The only threatening character on FD should be someone like ICs. Diddy and Falco can be beaten, if you play smart. Same with ICs, however it is a lot harder, seeing once you get grabbed, theres a good chance you just lost your stock.

Seriously. I dont want to be rude, but get over the fact that FD is a neutral. It's one of the best neutrals there are, considering how flat the stage is, and the lack of platforms. That's the most basic you can get.

There a difference between simple design and neutral. Read Tin's post again, he pretty much summed it up.

To address all of this. There are 2 definitions that are being mixed up here. Allow me to clarify.

There is the definition that a neutral is a stage that offers the least amount of interference with the characters as possible. in this manner, FD, and BF are some of the most neutral stages in the game. Each one has characteristics as to how one would be more neutral that the other. The edge of Final Destination interferes more with characters in comparison to the edge of Battlefield. then again, FD is a flat stage, no platforms. Whether platforms are considered as an acceptable element of what is neutral is something I don't care about tbh. Joe and cMeDu are under This belief of what is a neutral.

I as well as Fuddo see it this way. Phiddlesticks did explain it, but i'll drop my 2 cents anyways. The second definitions says a neutral is referring to the matchup and not to the properties of the stage. The most neutral stage is a stage that offers the most even matchups for every matchup possible. Looking at DDD, there is evidence that several characters perform better there than on other stages. Diddy Kong, ICs, and Falco are obvious but think some more here. DDD is excellent here against character he can CG. Pikachu has a lot of room also. There are simply other stages that offer more even matchups than FD does.

 

[-Googs]

Alright. For the record to the newblood to the scene, BF/SV/FD/YI and LC have almost always been the universal 5 start stage select for tournaments in the smash scene since its first inception. To say "I'm not going to play under these stupid rules" is incredibly scrubby, and shows that you have no drive to overcome adverse circumstances. Do you think ANY of the old blood enjoyed stages like delfino, castle siege, or PS1 as being legal starters? Hell no. But we put up with it, and we played it, and while we may have whined amongst one another in matches, we never once disregarded it, nor did we threaten to quit the scene.

I'm going to say the most cliché thing ever, but fact of the matter is that it's true. If you are genuinely worried about FD against someone, BAN IT. Simple as that.

Also, Googs gonna **** ontario next tourney. Unless he has to play hamilton. He's got a mental block on those crazy steel town kids.

You still owe me 5$ from our MM

 

[Patches]

There a difference between simple design and neutral. Read Tin's post again, he pretty much summed it up.

I read it.

But that's my view on FD. When I look at it, the only important things are simplicity for a neutral.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Every time a new ruleset is released, people *****. I love it


How long until we finally get 2 stage bans and a larger stage list?

 

[Iliad]

FD is balanced and neutral in melee? lol... Falco ***** nearly every character there due to SHFF lasers being unimpeded by obstacles or characters able to camp on platforms to avoid them. Sheik eats characters alive on FD that she can CG (Which is the majority of the cast) due to it being little more than minor inconvenience to tech chase and tech trap.

But then again... You then think. "That's just two characters who do very well against the majority of the cast on FD in melee." And then your brain clicks again. "Wait... I only named a whopping three characters who excel on FD in brawl." And then you realize, just because you play one game intimately and have become familiar with matchups you're uncomfortable with on that stage, you find whatever reason you can to get rid of it despite none of your argument making any sense, nor are your comparisons comparable to the game's predecessor which had the same drawbacks. And then you think. "Gee. I really shouldn't have argued this with Iliad."

PS1 is NOT deserving of starter. The majority of matches I've seen run to time in our scene, are done on that stage. Because almost every transformation creates a safety zone where you can hide behind a wall and either a) force the other person to approach with an almost guarantee that you'll punish them or b) you're forced to approach with almost no guarantee that you'll be able to punish them. This results in stalling and delay of game.

Beyond Lylat having angled ledges and the stage tilting, how does it promote stalling or impede the progress of the game by suddenly putting forth game stopping boundaries?

 

[Iliad]

What kids? No retort?

I would agree to this stage being a neutral however. PS2. I know shocker. If you have to ask why:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285744

 

[AvariceX]

I was saying all of that about PS2 two years ago. People just want to ban stages they don't like and suck on, and come up with whatever bull**** scapegoat reason they can (more often than not they fail to find an actual reason and just call the stage "gay").

 

[LooftWaffles]

I was saying all of that about PS2 two years ago. People just want to ban stages they don't like and suck on, and come up with whatever bull**** scapegoat reason they can (more often than not they fail to find an actual reason and just call the stage "gay").

Agreed.


I HATE ps2.


It should be legal. I also hate Japes, it should be banned. People need to learn to identify their own bias

 

[-Googs]

i think picto should be a starter and a cp

 

[Phiddlesticks]

i like distant plant

 

[fUddO]

Honestly, I agree with that. My ideal list would be:

----5 stage list----
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat
Yoshi's Island
Pokemon Stadium 2
----7 stage list----
Final Destination
Pokemon Stadium 1

Personally, I'm in favour of 7 stage list with Norfair and Japes back in CP.

 

[LooftWaffles]

I will never support PS2 over FD in a starter list

 

[MeekSpeedy]

pictochat still the best

I can make you hate that stage. ;D

But on the real, FD is always going to be a neutral. Sure, it can be rough to judge the most neutral stage, since certain stages are more beneficial to certain characters in specific match ups. Besides, which stages are more neutral than FD?

Castle Siege isn't really that neutral, PS1, like Iliad said, causes timeouts because of the stage obstructions. Characters like Ike and D3 have wall infinite's on that. Halberd? There's stage hazards and sharking going on. FD is going to be neutral, and there really isn't anything anybody can do to stop that. Mainly because it's too hard to argue that there are at least 3 other stages more neutral then FD that aren't BF or SV.

 

[fUddO]

I will never support PS2 over FD in a starter list

Even if you're facing an ICs?

 

[Iliad]

Even if you're facing an ICs?

I would never take ICs to a stage I'm not comfortable with. Hands down. I'd rather take them to FD than PS1 or PS2.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Even if you're facing an ICs?

Yes. Lets play this out in real life.



"Ok Ill strike first. No FD"

 

[fUddO]

Then he strikes Lylat and Yoshi's, and for your first match you're playing on ICs 2nd or 3rd best stages.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Then he strikes Lylat and Yoshi's, and for your first match you're playing on ICs 2nd or 3rd best stages.

And?


"Oh no Im facing an A-tier character game 1. Blame the stage!"

 

[fUddO]

How does that have anything to do with the conversation? I could be playing Falco, MK, or Wario, and it would change the fact that it's an amazing ICs stage. That is NOT neutral; it's ICs favour. If someone is considering that stage for their counterpick, then it probably shouldn't be a starter.

http://www.justin.tv/dmbrandon
- BBR-RC currently discussing this.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Where is the word "Neutral" written anywhere in this ruleset/stagelist?


There are Starter stages, and counterpicks. No such thing as "Neutral" stages.