The Snake FAQ/Q&A Thread

[Attila_]

mashing b when getting chaingrabbed is a horrible idea. on two seperate occasions, the opponent looked at my control, saw i was mashing b and instead of continuing the grab, used fsmash. i pulled out a nade but didnt have enough frames to shield. gg.

i assume he wont mess it up. cause he really shouldnt. its not particularly difficult. if he does mess up, you can usually roll/spotdodge or whatever anyway. better than eating an fsmash.

and if d3 misses a grab, or you spotdodge it, all you can do is retreat or retreat with a boost pivot grab. anything else, absolutely anything else, leads to you getting grabbed.

 

[-Ran]

If you have time to pull a grenade out, you have time to bring up your shield to protect from a Forward Smash. You were caught sleeping at the wheel, and ate a Forward Smash.

 

[Attila_]

hmm not so sure about that. d3 fsmash is like 43 frames, but considering the advantage he gets from the dthrow (he can dash grab you with frames to spare, which is in itself 11 frames plus the run up) and the fact that snake cannot shield until the 25th (i think) frame once pulling a grenade out, it wouldnt surprise me if its unavoidable. if fact, im pretty sure it is. the d3 boards have a complete lack of frame data though...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Personally, I try roll backwards. I honestly feel it's the safest method to get out with. If DDD indeed does mess up the CG, it's more than likely by being late off of the Dthrow and losing their advantage. Which means you'll be able to escape by rolling and more than likely they will be failing a dash grab or something like that. If you are getting punished for rolling backwards, it's because they are trying to predict you. I've never had a DDD punish my rolling backwards as Snake. I have had DDD punish my roll backwards as Falco and MK, but that is because they tech chasing and predicting. Not messing up.

The only advantage of the nade is that it punishes one frame late errors. Rolling only works 2 I think.

hmm not so sure about that. d3 fsmash is like 43 frames, but considering the advantage he gets from the dthrow (he can dash grab you with frames to spare, which is in itself 11 frames plus the run up) and the fact that snake cannot shield until the 25th (i think) frame once pulling a grenade out, it wouldnt surprise me if its unavoidable. if fact, im pretty sure it is. the d3 boards have a complete lack of frame data though...

And the ganon boards have the advantages over everyone when they gerudo flame choke someone xD They need to look at any little bit of advantage they can get on people lol

 

[Tiender Bocks]

How do you do a B reversal with a grenade?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

How do you do a B reversal with a grenade?

read OP plz.

So yeah, we should list all the things we can do to try to counter DDD's chaingrab and the benefits/dangers of doing that.

 

[Tiender Bocks]

Oh sorry, didn't know that there were FAQs on the first post. Thanks.

 

[Berserker.]

Yeah, we should start a thread about countering DDD's every move

 

[Yumewomiteru]

yeah... I know Susa made a nice thread before, but I think its locked now and Susa's gone.

But I rather we focus on DDD's downthrow cuz thats the 1 thing that messes up Snake the most imo. While we're at it we can also write something on the best way at avoiding getting gimped/take a ton of damage when DDD dthrows you off the stage.
I'm interested in seeing if there is a spot that you can stand on so tat when DDD dthrows you at that point you can grab the ledge and there are no options he can do to stop you.

Edit: @shmot: where do you find the frame datas for DDD dthrow and Snake's grenade pull? Cuz I cant find them anywhere.

 

[Berserker.]

Which thread? The SS round 3 thing? Well we should make a new one and get what she contributed in that thread and claim that it's his contribution so... wanna try it. (Anyway I never started a thread )

 

[Attila_]

snake's nade pull frame data is on the snake frame data thread. i cant find info on d3 dthrow (pretty sure the dont have a proper frame data thread) but, logically, if he can run up dash grab you out of his dthrow, he must have more than 9 (i swear i saw it said 11 somewhere, cant find it now) frames. he can also shield grab, does that mean shield (2 frames) --> shield drop (7 frames) --> grab (6 frames)? ive never really thought about it. either way, we cant say how many frames he has over us until someone does a little more research.

the grab stuff is from here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236133

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Which thread? The SS round 3 thing? Well we should make a new one and get what she contributed in that thread and claim that it's his contribution so... wanna try it. (Anyway I never started a thread )

Sure thing, idk if i can test it though, I'd need someone else as dedicated to this as I am to test stuff, and I dont got wifi when I go back to college. But yeah I think a detailed thread on how to best get out of the cg and get back on stage from a d-throw would be a good idea.

 

[smashkng]

How can I set up utilt on Falcos? It's the only character I can't reliably land on them. And what outpriorise his Illusion?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Falco's phantasm has no priority what so ever, any move will hit it out. If your not hitting him thats because... well your not hitting him. When Falco Phantasms his hurt box move to the center of the phantasm from a frame then moves to the end. So as long as you have a hit box hitting falco at that frame then you will hit him out.

If the opponent is really predictable with his phantasm you can land bair, nair, uptilt, etc.
If hes a complete noob you can fsmash where he will land.
If he's good and you expect a phantasm but cant predict it the best thing to do is shield drop a nade and roll back. most likely he will hit the nade and blowup, and he will fly towards you. And if he somehow avoids the nade then you will be in good position to punish him in the landing lag.

Whats your problem with landing uptilts? Falco shouldnt be harder than anyone else, jab to uptilt works if you hit him with your biceps with you jab. a good thing to know about falco is that his aerial horizontal movement sucks, so that means if you get in good position as he lands and you time your uptilt correctly you will hit.

 

[Berserker.]

Wait... F-smash? But Xeylode used F-smash at that video against some Falco. Does that mean that Falco he fought was a noob?

 

[.decoy]

i like to uptilt falco out of his phantasm.
once you have him at killing pct, any time he phantasms just uptilt it.
also falco has a pretty bad roll out of dthrow so you can techchase that with a utilt.
at killing pct though, many falcos will get wise to that and start rolling foward. punish that with a regrab.
on fd you can cg to the end of the stage then dthrow-> utilt. they can nair out of this because we are always at -1 frame disadvantage. many people don't though, so its worth a try. if nothing else you have them recovering from below the stage if you shield it.

 

[Berserker.]

I just pull out a grenade then shield drop it or usually use Up tilt or up smash

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Wait... F-smash? But Xeylode used F-smash at that video against some Falco. Does that mean that Falco he fought was a noob?

Wait, what did I do?

Falco's phantasm has no priority what so ever, any move will hit it out.

True and false at the same time. Falco's phantasm shouldn't really be declared as priority, or no priority. It is simply his hurtbox appears ahead of the hitbox. And the only time to hit falco is in one of three location. Beginning, middle and end of the phantasm. The attack sort of looks like this:

xx-----xx-----xx; where xx = hurtbox, ----- = hitbox.

Pretty much, if you hit falco at any place where the xx is located, you'll hit him out of phantasm. If the hitbox lands anywhere in the ----- area, then you will not hit falco out of phantasm and your hitbox simply clash.

So my advice for hitting falco out of phantasm is use your largest hit largest hitbox, but it depends on the character your using. My trick is just place a nade behind me to cover the longest phantasm hit, then just try to guard him close to the edge. No idea why, but rapid jab seems to work somewhat.

 

[Berserker.]

Nonono you don't get it, I meant the Falco it said there in Yume's post that you can f-smash Falco phantasm if the falco is a noob

I came to the Official Link match up guide of Kirin Blaze (Cool name dude) and I got shunned about what he just said in his output

"Link CAN outcamp Snake"

Yeah I know he can but there's also one thing, Snake CAN also outcamp Link. We can just powershield you arrows and we can neutralize gale boomerang using knee or possibly jab I think and well about th bombs.... There kinda troublesome but we have the thing called grenades, we can strip 'em, insta-throw them and do a lot of stuff and yes i agree strongly that it's a 50:50 or 55:45 Snake

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Couple of things. I agree with you Berserker!, that snake can outcamp Link. Also, I'm putting an exclamation point at the end of your username because whenever I read it, Marcus Fenix is yelling it as he did in Gears, haha.

Also, I tried utilting your phantasms yume. I just don't have the timing yet. Also, I thought it was hilarious how you said "hit with your biceps then utilt." I imagined someone literally attacking by swinging their biceps into someone, haha.

 

[Berserker.]

Lol Dark Shadow :D and about Xeylo:

xx-----xx-----xx; where xx = hurtbox, ----- = hitbox.

Wow that's smart O_O and hold on..... Are you Xeylode or maybe your Susa! Nah just kidding it's just that the only people who see doing those smart things is Ran Iji and Susa

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Thats actually how it goes lol, yeah you have to predict the phantasm to uptilt it, im getting alot better at not phantasming to the center of the stage now. Just so you know phantasm has a massive startup lag so you can actually uptilt him at the start if your close enough to him.
And yeah the thing about fsmash is that you have to start it early so the Falco will see it coming so any smart Falco will either phatasm to the ledge or even safer use firebird (I got hit by a fully charged Snake fsmash before because I misjudged the distance and missed the ledge).

@Berk, I actually played some friendlies against Kirin Blaze at SNES, his Link just camped me really badly, his projectiles and z-air just comes out faster than I can pull out nades and throw it at them. So I guess if you really want to camp him you gotta nade alot less and just focus on powershielding everything, which prob isnt worth it. And yeah I can see it being a close matchup. It still should be in Snakes favor because of Link's horrible recovery, though good DI can minimize that quiet well, and he does have some good ways to get kills on us.

Edit: just saw Berk's post, I actually saw that exact post from Velox a few months back, he had frame datas and everything, lemme see if I can dig that up again.

 

[Berserker.]

Isn't velox Susa?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

no, Velox is _Crystal

 

[Berserker.]

Oh, etecoon said it's Susa :D lol. I don't see the Snakes like velox, Ken Neth posting. At last! Nic64 posted here anyway :D

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Velox is busy with something. Ken Neth is in Belgium doing something for 2 years, and he's effectively quitting Smash. I have a sinking feeling that SuSa is also quitting... *sad face*


EDIT: So I lost to Dedede at a tournament as Snake. I dont even know anymore, I guess it wasn't **** because I had the lead at 1st and it was pretty close but still. I know that matchup so well now yet I still lose its kinda frustrating.






Oh well, get gud Yume.

 

[Berserker.]

It's reasonable to lose against DDD.

I heard the muti-man melee 2 music, it's so AWESOME! Best SSB series music I've ever heard so far why didn't they put this in brawl?

 

[Black_Heretic]

Losing to DDD's isn't too bad, at least you didn't lose to a Jigglypuff or something

just camp harder vs D3

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Yeah thats how I got the lead at 1st, then he like used frigate stage flipping to his advantage, he would always land before I did and grab me on landing. I was able to avoid most of his bairs which was something I was happy about. Oh well no johns he knows that matchup incredibly well too, partly because there are so many Snakes in NE.

Speaking of which, where should you try to be on frigate when the stage flips so that you land the quickest?

 

[Black_Heretic]

That's a good question, I'm not sure but now I'd like to know too

 

[-Ran]

Wrong thread again. @.@

On frigate, short hop at the last second before the flip. You should be fine.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

How do you know exactly when its going to flip?

 

[-Ran]

The lights on the stage start to flash. There's also a noise as well.


http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5386567#post5386567

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Wrong thread again. @.@

On frigate, short hop at the last second before the flip. You should be fine.

Hmm... I recall Amphraos posting his thoughts on Frigate Orpheon once. I said that when the switch happen, you keep the same x/y coordinates as you did before hand. It is only when something gets in the way during the flip that you will change. So generally, going high in the air above the stage is just as fine without having to time anything.


lol nvm, you already found that thread with that link up above xD

 

[Yumewomiteru]

The thing about going high in the air is that if your opponent doesnt and choose to stay close to the ground, that automatically put you at a disadvantage. I'm going to learn the timing of frigate so that I can just SH when the stage flips so that I land quickly.

 

[smashkng]

Link's projectiles are slow, so you can powershield them while approaching. Zair is pretty problematic, though. Basically, Link's projectiles usually are annoying when you want to camp with grenades. I think it's 60/40 Snake.

 

[mofo_]

idk bout that frigate orpheon stuff...couple of times i got stuck underneath the stage.....and once for no gay reason i got ceiling KO'd.

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Hey yume, at least you didn't lost a f***ing kirbykjafknaiwrgfjkdf;qej!!!1!!

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Yeah lol that guy played all Kirby chars. His mk beat my falco, then my snake beat his kirby, and his DDD beat my snake.

But Kirby isnt that easy for Snake, a Kirby who knows that matchup well can do pretty well against Snake.

 

[-Ran]

Kirby isn't easy, but it is in Snake's favor. His kill moves are veeeeery predictable and cannot be used safely against Snake.