The Snake FAQ/Q&A Thread

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

1) We've tested this I'll go find it.

2) No, but grenades don't generally kill to 150% AFAIK with decent DI

3) Read the "everything you need to know thread" we have C4+Mine KO %'s with NO DI (just add roughly 20-30%) because it's going to be near impossible to perfectly DI every single time. (Eg: don't see it coming, different parts of the stage, etc.) This is why most people don't test with DI. It's even less reliable of a judge then without it.

4) We can grab release chaingrab Falco, and can grab release > Dash attack MK IIRC. But having an actual list of EVERYTHING we can do to EVERYONE would be awesome. Also we can grab release **** Wario. (Nair, SH uair (AFAIK), utilt, usmash, etc.) with IMO Uair/utilt being the most rewarding... since they can SDI the nair.

So test 4, and 2 if you really want to. I'll go find the answer to #1.

I feel tempted to do just that xD I would go and do the Jab > ftilt thing, but that requires multiple people.

 

[SuSa]

Found the C4/Mine thing:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208172

If you'd like you can organize this information:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6955190&postcount=109

Ken Neth is awesome (jab combo)

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

At least I have a couple of things to do for tomorrow.

 

[SuSa]

4, 2, and organizing that information would be epic.

Also for a serious question.... who thinks I should take apart the metagame thread and make a new thread containing related data? (EG: Data on jabs, such as Ken Neth's post + Jab > ftilt/utilt/grab stuff when tested in one thread. Everything on grabs in another, everything on Kill %'s in another, eg?)

Very few people bothered to pick through the metagame thread, and if I tore it up and posted several threads (which would die out fast) I'd be able to add them to the compendium and linking to information would be easier.

Not to mention that they may not die out, and the knowledge would become far more common then just between the testers + me....

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

4, 2, and organizing that information would be epic.

Also for a serious question.... who thinks I should take apart the metagame thread and make a new thread containing related data? (EG: Data on jabs, such as Ken Neth's post + Jab > ftilt/utilt/grab stuff when tested in one thread. Everything on grabs in another, everything on Kill %'s in another, eg?)

Very few people bothered to pick through the metagame thread, and if I tore it up and posted several threads (which would die out fast) I'd be able to add them to the compendium and linking to information would be easier.

Not to mention that they may not die out, and the knowledge would become far more common then just between the testers + me....

My questions weren't serious <_< lol

To see if I got that right, you mean one massive thread containing all information instead of shifting throught the links? Seems a good idea, it would be a really big OP xD

 

[SuSa]

I mean shifting through links instead of 1 massive thread.

1 massive thread = metagame thread = only me + testers I basically had to beg/egg on to test posted in

It has been posted in for a month :3 and it has a lot of nice information, and maybe if people could comment on just 1 thing it could progress more... and personally 4 more topics couldn't hurt THAT bad.

And I can talk to S. Panda about "temp sticks" (like weekly stickies - eg: matchup exports) to make sure the IMPORTANTE stuff like matchup/stage discussion is stickied and easy to find.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The "metagame thread - things to test" has been sort of dead xD

And the current thread you already have is good enough for posting links in. Perhaps poking some headlines for best topics to view. Such as the Dthrow would probably be a good one to have along with the jab combo and others.

 

[SuSa]

I post threads in there, not posts... because then people can see the discussion surrounding it.

I'll be adding the dthrow topic to the compendium soon. But then theres posts (mostly in the metagame thread that you have to browse for...) that can be combined to make a pretty decent thread.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I post threads in there, not posts... because then people can see the discussion surrounding it.

I'll be adding the dthrow topic to the compendium soon. But then theres posts (mostly in the metagame thread that you have to browse for...) that can be combined to make a pretty decent thread.

Anything else that is unorganized for indiviual posts? I could probably get some excel charts made of posts like Tub's for organization and turned into pictures.

Why didnt' I ever think about that. Use for the Air Grab release on falco. Tech chasing = easiest at edges. Use air grab release to the nearest edge and tech chase then, free pummel along the way to refresh moves too.

 

[SuSa]

That would be **** awesome.

Finish your testing for tomorrow and rather then post it, make a kill % chart?

Name | Utilt KO % | Dtilt % KO | Jab KO % | Dair KO % | Bthrow KO % | C4 KO % | Mine KO % | Grenade KO % |

I could find the utilt/dtilt/dair/c4/mine easily, bthrow would be AT EDGE and grenade you'd be testing?

It would be a nice reference for our best KO moves.... and would summurize all the KO %'s in one nice organized topic. (Just give credit to the testers /OP's that supplied the data) and I could replace like 4 threads in the compendium with 1....

Then I can ninja edit the moveset discussion to include more in-depth stuff (like Ken Neths post on Jab) and get discussion flowing in that thread again hopefully....

Rawr. I'm off to bed

 

[mofo_]

hey yo, i ran the nades frame by frame and it takes 2:98/2:99 seconds for it to blow up :o

so technically....it takes 2 seconds for it to blow up :o

Spoiler

pull time - 1:51:00
splode time - 1:48:01
total time - 2:99

1:45:56
1:42:58
2:98

1:40:80
1:37:81
2:99

1:35:18
1:32:20
2:98

1:13:88
1:10:90
2:98

1:01:35
0:58:36
2:99

 

[Black_Heretic]

round up, not down

 

[SuSa]

Are you testing the 0.01 seconds it takes for the hitbox to come out? *evileye*

 

[RATED]

1) We've tested this I'll go find it.

2) No, but grenades don't generally kill to 150% AFAIK with decent DI

3) Read the "everything you need to know thread" we have C4+Mine KO %'s with NO DI (just add roughly 20-30%) because it's going to be near impossible to perfectly DI every single time. (Eg: don't see it coming, different parts of the stage, etc.) This is why most people don't test with DI. It's even less reliable of a judge then without it.

4) We can grab release chaingrab Falco, and can grab release > Dash attack MK IIRC. But having an actual list of EVERYTHING we can do to EVERYONE would be awesome. Also we can grab release **** Wario. (Nair, SH uair (AFAIK), utilt, usmash, etc.) with IMO Uair/utilt being the most rewarding... since they can SDI the nair.

So test 4, and 2 if you really want to. I'll go find the answer to #1.

a question. the grab release to MK since u can hit himwith dash attack, we can do normal running to upsmash.? ( not mortalslide )

BTW I been trying the grab release thing on falco ( I know that is with a timing ) but I lost the timing I and can't find the thread can anyone explain or put the buttons on how to do it?

 

[SuSa]

Usmash has way to much startup time. The dash attack also makes you boost forward.

Z > Wait > Buffer Dash > Attack + Grab right after (A > Z for example)

After the first Z, there are optional A's for pummeling.

Note that the timing is REALLY strict.

 

[RATED]

Usmash has way to much startup time. The dash attack also makes you boost forward.

Z > Wait > Buffer Dash > Attack + Grab right after (A > Z for example)

After the first Z, there are optional A's for pummeling.

Note that the timing is REALLY strict.

thanks I will practice it when I get home.

 

[Vorguen]

I think that chaingrab is very impractical... It's very hard to pull off and unless you can get it like 75+% of the time you're probably better off Tech chasing...

 

[mofo_]

Are you testing the 0.01 seconds it takes for the hitbox to come out? *evileye*

lol, i just did from the time i pressed b to the time it exploded

 

[SuSa]

I think that chaingrab is very impractical... It's very hard to pull off and unless you can get it like 75+% of the time you're probably better off Tech chasing...

Tech chasing isn't guarenteed - and with enough practice it's very easy to pull off.

In fact a Falco user asked in their Q&A about avoiding it and its BS.

Because grabbing Falco isn't all that hard.


However if you are near the edge of the stage, then just dthrow...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing is to make it easier to Tech chase if you shove them towards the nearest edge.

 

[SuSa]

It also:

1) Freshens up your other moves
2) Racks up damage (anywhere from 2-20%~)
3) Allows to setup for better tech chases (near edges)
4) Can grab release > C4/Mine if lucky enough

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Ground Release > Mine = too good

How do grenades decay? I was told that projectiles decay at different methods than normal attacks.

 

[_Phloat_]

It also:

1) Freshens up your other moves
2) Racks up damage (anywhere from 2-20%~)
3) Allows to setup for better tech chases (near edges)
4) Can grab release > C4/Mine if lucky enough

5) Is sweet, sweet irony.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Do you think it's possible to fall through a platform before a person can do a get-up attack after you have just Dthrown them? It would seem a good way to try to get the kill instead of reading the tech chase.

 

[SuSa]

I need someone to test this with me.

With perfect timing if we Down-B while passing through a platform (even in knockback) we immediatly stop in place and do the whole "crouch and place" c4 animation.

It's happened to be twice today against a Wolf.... needs more testing. (1: Requires enough time to have gone by that you can down-B) so it'd be situational as hell...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

But if we could do that, Battlefield would be so broken with Snake xD And others too.

 

[SuSa]

It was happening mostly on Smashville getting hit from one side to the other with the platform there.

And a little on Battlefield and Lylat.

It's.... weird... but needs more testing. (and you need GOOD timing)

 

[Attila_]

grab release combo on falco aswell? i already knew about mk... who else does this work on?

 

[SuSa]

We haven't tested.

I hear from __crystal___ that Ganon/Sheik can't recover until they touch the stage? So we may be able to combo them. As for others, we still need to test.

MK > DA and Falco > DA/Boost grab are the only ones I know are guarenteed.

(You can boost grab MK but if he nair's you take damage.. and you can't be off by a single frame.... so error of margin before it doesn't work: 1 frame

 

[IxxI]

I need someone to test this with me.

With perfect timing if we Down-B while passing through a platform (even in knockback) we immediatly stop in place and do the whole "crouch and place" c4 animation.

It's happened to be twice today against a Wolf.... needs more testing. (1: Requires enough time to have gone by that you can down-B) so it'd be situational as hell...

I've done this so many times unintentional AND intentional. It's kinda the same timing as teching. I thought this was more common sense though lol.

 

[SuSa]

Most people wouldn't think it stops all momentum during knockback.

The only bad thing is laying the c4 takes ages -_- but hell, if you survive it's worth it?


*OMFG I got spiked today by Wolf's laser @118% right after I airdodged from my cypher... it spiked me down into the stage...

Also I noticed if you hold towards Wolf when he Fsmashes, at most %'s you pass through him and it knocks you down (then tech roll away)...


So the question is:

I'm off to bed.......who wants to test grab release stuff with me tomorrow?

 

[IxxI]

I wish I could help.
I has to study for finalz.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I too have finals, but I can help with DIing, and trying to escape. Ganon and Shiek I did in 1/4 speed, so after the air release I practially spammed the jump buttons and they didn't go off into the air. So the air release with them does land on the ground and I am pretty sure you can boost grab them, but if you mess up you'll eat a jab.

 

[SuSa]

We can do stuff to people who can jump before touching the ground as well. (MK AFAIK)

So it'd be a time consuming test.

I'll test things (including utilt + proper DI/momentum canceling @ center of FD) to make S. Panda happy =p

but shh... don't tell him...

*goes to school*

 

[Darkshadow7827]

I won't mind helping you test but I don't know how well my internet will hold up. I've done that C4 crouch in place drop when jumping up to platforms. I never thought to use it to stop momentum though.

EDIT: Not in your best interest though - DSL plus east coase = even more lag.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This seem useful in anyway.

Close to the edge you'll do this:

Shield Drop > SH Nair > Maneuveur offstage > 2nd jump back grab the ledge. From there the grenade has been perfectly cooked to explode in the invicibility frames that you get from the ledge.

Another variation uses the small boost gained from throwing grenades in the air.

Same scenario except you do this:

Shield Drop > FH Nair > maneuveur off stage > 2nd jump > chuck grenade towards stage

This allows you to pop back up onto the stage without having to grab the ledge at all, grenade wasted, but you get on stage quicker.

 

[Hype]

Can somone please explain how you DI snake's mortars. I get sent flying in all sorts of wacky directions. Is the trajectory different depending on whether the mortar is rising or falling? Does it depend on the direction of the mortar (forwards or backward)? or is it dependant on where it hits me? The move confuses me.

 

[IxxI]

I don't think any of us can answer you're question.

But I think its if you get hit by a certain part of the mortar, like the right side or left.
Idk.
Just a guess.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The mortar knockback is always the same, it must just be the way you are DIing it.

When hit by the mortar, it will send you in the direction that snake was facing when he fired the mortar round, but at a high arc trajectory (straight up for the most part, but to the left or right a decent amount) , no matter how the mortar was falling, raising, or on which side. So if snake was facing to the right when the mortar went off, you'll take knockback going to the right side of the stage.

Plus, you can really only DI the trajectory in a couple fashions. Say you are facing the mortar and it gives you the knockback towards the staright up, but to the right, then DI right and you'll go more horizontal, DI left, down or Up and you'll pretty much go as vertical as possbile.

 

[SuSa]

Should I get knockback for each of Snake's moves without DI? (the trajectory in degrees)

I can test this against Mario (the dummy for everything) to see the default trajectory of our moves.