The Sheik Compendium of Advanced Techniques, Combos, and Tricks (Wii U)

[Jackson]

Added Wave Needles to the thread.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Any tips on killing with Sheik?

My kills are often either bouncing fish (off-stage or on-stage if high percent), dthrow into Uair (at higher percents and on some specific characters, they can manage to air dodge before you could hit them with the Uair so waiting for them to airdodge then doing it can be crucial; some characters double jump though), or fthrow into Uair. Sometimes a well timed Fsmash or Usmash can also do the trick. That doesn't include edge guarding the hell out of people lol.

 

[Cho]

In any case- you have to get creative to score kills as Sheik- don't forget about your not so obvious killing moves. Side B can kill- it's dangerous for enemies recovering and if you use it very carefully (very carefully) you can bait your opponent to shield the explosion- I don't know if this then becomes a "true combo" but I never faced an opponent who escaped my grab after he shielded the explosion.
Also our Up B can kill - pretty reliably even if you're smart with it.

However- as ArikadoX already mentioned- Edge guarding is probably the safest way to score kills on many characters at sometimes even very low percentages.

 

[Darklink401]

UpB is so good for killing. In fact, if you can get a combo of like 4 fairs, and get your opponent off the stage with them, then you use B up, they'll likely get nailed by the little hoptoexplosion, and can die.

 

[Jackson]

yeah, up B is REALLY good.

 

[?.?]

Any tips on killing with Sheik?

Some pretty good tips from other sheik mains, but I still want to add in my bit of advice based on lots of experience in brawl and quite a lot of matches in smash 4. Learn your basic combos/mixups, whether it's fair juggling or up-air meteors. for the first 100% and at that point start throwing your more potent moves into the equation. At lower percents for instant, using upsmash is practically pointless unless you want 16 damage and plan on removing it from the stale counter before killing with it. I've said this before elsewhere but almost all my kills (other than gimps) I've gotten but just doing what I was doing but with kill moves instead.

tl;dr: just keep doing your thing but add in kill moves now and then during/at the end of combos.

 

[tyhiggz]

Which hitbox do we want to use to kill with the up b?

 

[Darklink401]

Which hitbox do we want to use to kill with the up b?

The first one.

The other one is more to push someone whos gonna get in the way of you landing safely.

 

[saviorslegacy]

So I've been thinking.
Over the years I have noticed there are 2 different kinds of techs. Techs that require perfect spacing to cancel at the edge of a platform (like Needle Ledge Canceling), perfect use of an analog when you are in danger of being hit (like pivot walking) or perfect spacing for something like a footstool.

Then you have your techs that just require you to mash buttons for easier results with far more yield. ie, Wave Dash and DACUS

With that being said, I think that the true gift of canceling bouncing fish comes in a form of a laggy version of a wave land.
If you time a bouncing fish out of a jump just right you will land on a platform before Sheik kicks resulting in a little summersault.
I think in theory, this might be something we might be able to abuse, and since it requires no real spaciong requirements, we can practice the timing of Bouncing Fish out of a jump to get this result 100% of the time.
That being said, I think we also need to learn some quick notes on where we can perfectly perform a bouncing fish ledge cancel.
I believe that the two big ones (for BF at least) is to run off the platform and then cancel it onto the other side. That is something we can convert into muscle memory. Another is to ledge hop and then cancel onto the platform closest to us (the ledge of the platform facing the center of BF).


What is your opinion?

 

[Tristan_win]

EDIT: So after a few hours of testing various things @ Wasserwipf and I got to testing this with VI. The follow characters is what we have so far. These % are very solid.

Mario
VI Away 0-25%
VI UP None
Bowser
VI Away 0-65%
VI UP None
Bowser jr
VI Away 0-60%
VI Up None
Dedede
VI Away 0-70%
VI UP 0-25%
Lucario
VI Away 0-60%
VI UP 0-10%
Greeninja
VI Away 0-40%
VI Up None
Rosalina
VI Away 0-40%
VI Up None
Luigi
VI Away 0-5%
VI Up None
Peach
VI Away 0-15%
VI Up None
Yoshi
VI Away 0-25%
VI Up None
Wario
VI Away 0-35%
VI Up None
Game and watch
VI Away 0-20%
VI Up None
Zero suit
VI Away 0-63%
VI Up None
Samus
VI Away 0-40%
VI Up None
Toon link
VI Away 0-25%
VI Up None
Ganondorft
VI Away 0-45%
VI Up None
Sheik
VI Away 0-45%
VI Up None
Zelda
VI 0-35%
VI Up None
Link
VI Away 0-55%
VI Up None
Diddy kong
VI Away 0-30%
VI Up None
DK
VI Away 0-80%
VI Up None

VI Away
VI Up None

Note: For some characters the range this will work is greater then what's listed but it requires you to extend the range of bouncing fish.

So last night I got to test a few things with <3 and one of them were Fthrow into normal distance grounded Bouncing fish (his idea not mine, I was playing with bthrow which doesn't work >.<). The results were even when Mario VI up and trying to air dodge it would still connect to at least 20% (we got interrupted while testing). Afterwards I decide to scout out a bit how this might effect the rest of the cast in training mode. This is something I feel is worth talking about as a Fthrow into bouncing fish does 19% and can send people off stage.

All testing was done in training mode against a level 9 cpu, these are all true combo's and although not perfect I did tried to wait until the CPU would DI up/not at all, impossible to tell which on the fthrow before recording the results. None of these percents are set in stone due to training mode 1.0 knock back, no rage, and no guaranteed that the cpu VI perfectly. I do not think this really works like it's listed for Boswer Jr at the outrageous 65%, possibly though it could work for half that amount though but now I know what I'm going to test first =D

Edit: Okay this **** works pretty ****ing well! 20% per grab now sure makes Sheik broken as ****.
No matter how well these can be VI to escape the threat of getting a solid 19% damage is enough to force someone to DI up which means they are very readable.

See note for characters with a * next to their name.

Marth no*
Extra feminine Marth no*
Greeninja no*
Robin no*
Jigglypuff no
Shulk isn't feeling it, no
Kirby no
Luigi no
Toon Link no
peach 0-5%
Samus 0-5%
Pikachu 0-5%
Villager 0-10%
WFT 0-10%
Ness 0-10%
Doc mario 0-15%
Mario 0-15%
Game and watch 0-15%
Rosalina 0-15%
Olimar 0-20%
Palutena 0-20%
Meta knight 0-20%
Duck hunt dog 0-20%
DK 0-20%*
yoshi 0-25%
Zelda 0-25%
Mega man 0-25%
ROB 0-30%
pac man 0-35%
Pit 0-35%
Dark Pit 0-35%
Charizard 0-35%
Wario 0-40%
Sonic 0-40%
Diddy kong 0-45%
Ganondorf 0-45%
Zero suit 0-45%
Falco 0-50%
Captain falcon 0-50%
Little Mac 0-50%
link 0-50%
Ike 0-50%
Sheik 0-55%
Bowser 0-55%
fox 0-55%
Lucario 0-55%
Dedede 0-65%
Bowser jr 0-65%

Note: When you fthrow these characters if they DI up/not at all they do not get throw ahead of Sheik but are sent directly above her. For these characters I highly suggest to use Uair on them, unless they VI away from Sheik (which is very common) then it can works on them.


In case you guys are wondering how rage effect dthrow I'll post this here since it's somewhat relevant

Spoiler

Sheik 0% Mario 0% dthrow
61
Sheik 40% Mario 0% dthrow
62
Sheik 50% Mario 0% dthrow
63
sheik 60% Mario 0% dthrow
63
Sheik 80% Mario 0% dthrow
65
Sheik 100% Mario 0% dthrow
67
Sheik 150 mario 0% dthrow
71

Sheik 0% Mario 0% dthrow
61
Sheik 0% Mario 10% dthrow
63
Sheik 0% Mario 20% dthrow
65
Sheik 0% Mario 30% dthrow
67
Sheik 0% mario 40% dthrow
68
Sheik 0% mario 50% dthrow
70
Sheik 0% mario 60% dthrow
72
Sheik 0% mario 70% dthrow
74
Sheik 0% mario 80% dthrow
75
Sheik 0% mario 90% dthrow
77
Sheik 0% mario 100% dthrow
79
Sheik 0% mario 110% dthrow
81
Sheik 0% mario 120% dthrow
82
Sheik 0% mario 130% dthrow
84
Sheik 0% mario 140% dthrow
86
Sheik 0% mario 150% dthrow
87
Sheik 0% mario 160% dthrow
89
Sheik 0% mario 170% dthrow
91
Sheik 0% mario 180% dthrow
93
Sheik 0% mario 190% dthrow
94
Sheik 0% mario 200% dthrow
96

Fthrow data

Spoiler

Fthrow
Sheik 0% Mario 0%
60
Sheik 40% Mario 0%
60
Sheik 50% Mario 0%
61
Sheik 60% Mario 0%
62
Sheik 80% Mario 0%
63
Sheik 100% Mario 0%
65
Sheik 125% Mario 0%
67
Sheik 150% Mario 0%
69
Sheik 200% Mario 0%
69


Sheik 0% Mario 10%
61
Sheik 0% Mario 20%
62
Sheik 0% Mario 30%
64
Sheik 0% Mario 40%
65
Sheik 0% Mario 50%
66
Sheik 0% Mario 60%
67
Sheik 0% Mario 70%
68
Sheik 0% Mario 80%
70
Sheik 0% Mario 90%
71
Sheik 0% Mario 100%
72
Sheik 0% Mario 110%
73
Sheik 0% Mario 120%
74
Sheik 0% Mario 130%
76
Sheik 0% Mario 140%
77
Sheik 0% Mario 150%
78
Sheik 0% Mario 160%
79
Sheik 0% Mario 170%
80
Sheik 0% Mario 180%
82
Sheik 0% Mario 190%
83
Sheik 0% Mario 200%
84

So I've been thinking.
Over the years I have noticed there are 2 different kinds of techs. Techs that require perfect spacing to cancel at the edge of a platform (like Needle Ledge Canceling), perfect use of an analog when you are in danger of being hit (like pivot walking) or perfect spacing for something like a footstool.

Then you have your techs that just require you to mash buttons for easier results with far more yield. ie, Wave Dash and DACUS

With that being said, I think that the true gift of canceling bouncing fish comes in a form of a laggy version of a wave land.
If you time a bouncing fish out of a jump just right you will land on a platform before Sheik kicks resulting in a little summersault.
I think in theory, this might be something we might be able to abuse, and since it requires no real spaciong requirements, we can practice the timing of Bouncing Fish out of a jump to get this result 100% of the time.
That being said, I think we also need to learn some quick notes on where we can perfectly perform a bouncing fish ledge cancel.
I believe that the two big ones (for BF at least) is to run off the platform and then cancel it onto the other side. That is something we can convert into muscle memory. Another is to ledge hop and then cancel onto the platform closest to us (the ledge of the platform facing the center of BF).


What is your opinion?

I think BF ledge cancel is amazing and is not only fun as hell to use but has a lot of purpose. About your question though I think tech that require you to 'mash buttons' are superior to other tech due to it being in completely in your control when you can and cannot use it.

 

[JuJux]

Tell me if i'm wrong, but I didn't see any post on the "kamikaze" AT.

When you use ur downB on the ledge you can use the second hit of it whenever you want, meaning you can hit someone with ur downB even if he is very low offstage without too much risk (since you still have your second jump even if you fail) not to say that you look freaking awesome when you kill someone taht way (wink) !
I discovered it myself on the 1st way but i'm pretty sure I saw some japanese Sheik doing it on tournament while the commentator were screaming "KAMIKAZEEEE" !!!

Didn't see anything about the Nair sourspot cancel linking with the downB at high % which is a ****ing decent way to kill (and not VI/DI dependant !) ! (Credit to @Blubolouis on that one)
You can also link a downB after a Fair cancel at middle % but it will never kill and it's VI/DI dependant )= ...

 

[Jackson]

Tell me if i'm wrong, but I didn't see any post on the "kamikaze" AT.

When you use ur downB on the ledge you can use the second hit of it whenever you want, meaning you can hit someone with ur downB even if he is very low offstage without too much risk (since you still have your second jump even if you fail) not to say that you look freaking awesome when you kill someone taht way (wink) !
I discovered it myself on the 1st way but i'm pretty sure I saw some japanese Sheik doing it on tournament while the commentator were screaming "KAMIKAZEEEE" !!!

Didn't see anything about the Nair sourspot cancel linking with the downB at high % which is a ****ing decent way to kill (and not VI/DI dependant !) ! (Credit to @Blubolouis on that one)
You can also link a downB after a Fair cancel at middle % but it will never kill and it's VI/DI dependant )= ...

I'm a bit confused on how that first tech works. Video?

 

[JuJux]

Perform your 1st hit of the downB on the ledge, I will act like your hitting someone, then activate your second hit whenever you want (to a certain limit, slighly before you reach the blastzone on the bottom). Pretty simple but do the job if you use it right. I unfortunatly can't record my replays :/ ...

 

[Jackson]

Perform your 1st hit of the downB on the ledge, I will act like your hitting someone, then activate your second hit whenever you want (to a certain limit, slighly before you reach the blastzone on the bottom). Pretty simple but do the job if you use it right. I unfortunatly can't record my replays :/ ...

oh yeah, the wall jump down b!

 

[Wasserwipf]

Perform your 1st hit of the downB on the ledge, I will act like your hitting someone, then activate your second hit whenever you want (to a certain limit, slighly before you reach the blastzone on the bottom). Pretty simple but do the job if you use it right. I unfortunatly can't record my replays :/ ...

If this is what I think it is, it's basicly what _Tree shows in this thread (and Video)
http://smashboards.com/threads/bouncing-fish-into-the-stage-battlefield-fd-omegas.372431/
or any variation of the same mechanic. If this is true, we have been doing this for a pretty long time already, so.
Also, on a little sidenote, its not "downB", its just "Bouncing Fish" or BF... oh well nevermind.

EDIT: Ninja'd... kinda. Well we're on the Sheikboards, it really doesnt surprise me.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Didn't see anything about the Nair sourspot cancel linking with the downB at high % which is a ****ing decent way to kill (and not VI/DI dependant !) ! (Credit to @Blubolouis on that one)
You can also link a downB after a Fair cancel at middle % but it will never kill and it's VI/DI dependant )= ...

Weak nair> bf is a kill combo on certain characters at certain prevents. Same as needles> bf.


Oh and Triatan, I assume you forgot to test fthrow> jump> bf kill combo. I just got it to register as a true combo on Robin. Timing is tight and like everything sheik, there is a small percent window.

Also, dthrow> usmash does more damage. On robin at 0% try fair> dthrow> usmash.
Usmash is not a true follow up on the entire cast. I haven't tested everyone yet but it works on robin, rob and dh.
It does not work on fox. So right now, I am confused.


I was able to perform weak bair> dacus today. I believe it is a true combo at certain percents. Probably around 150%.

Bouncing fish hits people on the ledge while you are on the stage.



That is my quick notes. Your turn Tristan.

 

[Tristan_win]

Weak nair> bf is a kill combo on certain characters at certain prevents. Same as needles> bf.


Oh and Triatan, I assume you forgot to test fthrow> jump> bf kill combo. I just got it to register as a true combo on Robin. Timing is tight and like everything sheik, there is a small percent window.

Also, dthrow> usmash does more damage. On robin at 0% try fair> dthrow> usmash.
Usmash is not a true follow up on the entire cast. I haven't tested everyone yet but it works on robin, rob and dh.
It does not work on fox. So right now, I am confused.


I was able to perform weak bair> dacus today. I believe it is a true combo at certain percents. Probably around 150%.

Bouncing fish hits people on the ledge while you are on the stage.



That is my quick notes. Your turn Tristan.

• Weak nair into BF is something I plan to look into at a later date. Needles not as much due to how small the window is so they are fairly low priority.
• Your assumption is wrong. Right now my goal is simple, easy to constantly do combo's in order to help cut back on human error. My mind set isn't the daunting task of fully unlock all of Sheik combo's but to just get at least something we can depend upon.
  
• HM, I didn't know dthrow into usmash worked. That's pretty cool to know but sadly I'm pretty sure if they VI up or maybe even away they will always avoid the usmash. This is just my assumption though some brief testing should be done to say the least. Thank you.
• Bair into dacus doesn't surprise me, you could do that in Brawl as well.
• Yup it does... Did you know fair does too?

I guess the only real interesting note I have right now, which for the record I still do not acknowledge, is how fthrow while facing right seems to have greater knock back then fthrow to the left. It makes absolutely no sense and the game seem to think they give same knock back but in our Fthrow testing on a few occasions something that would work to the left would constantly fail to the right. Human error is always a factor in these things but when something is that constant it's hard to argue against.

 

[MartinAW4]

Hello Sheik boards! I come from your rival ninja boards, the Greninja boards. We`ve had many harsh battles for the title of strongest ninja in Smash 4, however this time I come in peace. I decided to pick up Sheik as a secondary and in order to prove my loyalty, I will teach you our strongest signature ninja technique: the dual hit Usmash.

This is how to perform the dual hit Usmash:
- First find a worthy opponent. Not just someone your own size, find someone bigger. Don`t expect this technique to work against small children, old plumbers, peaceful animals or least of all your sensei Greninja. As the creator of this technique we naturally stand in a pose that prevents it from working on us. This is a technique for fighting evil such as Ganondorf, Kind Dedede, Bowser and his child and the biggest evil of all, Rosalina, Peach and ZSS even if she`s hiding in her power suit.
- Next, you must conquer your fear. Only the bravest fighters can perform this technique. Forget about cowardly long ranged fighting. In order to master this technique you must not only fight close, you must perform your Usmash from within your opponent. If done correctly, you will hit with both the sweetspot and sourspot Usmash hits for a total of 26-36 damage depending on your charge.
- However this technique can only be performed by fighters pure of heart. If used with the intention to kill, it will fail. Only if used at the start of battle in order to show your opponent the path of honor will it succeed.

Enjoy your new technique, but remember, with great power comes great reponsibility, so use it wisely!

 

[Tristan_win]

Hello Sheik boards! I come from your rival ninja boards, the Greninja boards. We`ve had many harsh battles for the title of strongest ninja in Smash 4, however this time I come in peace. I decided to pick up Sheik as a secondary and in order to prove my loyalty, I will teach you our strongest signature ninja technique: the dual hit Usmash.

This is how to perform the dual hit Usmash:
- First find a worthy opponent. Not just someone your own size, find someone bigger. Don`t expect this technique to work against small children, old plumbers, peaceful animals or least of all your sensei Greninja. As the creator of this technique we naturally stand in a pose that prevents it from working on us. This is a technique for fighting evil such as Ganondorf, Kind Dedede, Bowser and his child and the biggest evil of all, Rosalina, Peach and ZSS even if she`s hiding in her power suit.
- Next, you must conquer your fear. Only the bravest fighters can perform this technique. Forget about cowardly long ranged fighting. In order to master this technique you must not only fight close, you must perform your Usmash from within your opponent. If done correctly, you will hit with both the sweetspot and sourspot Usmash hits for a total of 26-36 damage depending on your charge.
- However this technique can only be performed by fighters pure of heart. If used with the intention to kill, it will fail. Only if used at the start of battle in order to show your opponent the path of honor will it succeed.

Enjoy your new technique, but remember, with great power comes great reponsibility, so use it wisely!

Heh, what a cute Kohai you are.

 

[saviorslegacy]

• Weak nair into BF is something I plan to look into at a later date. Needles not as much due to how small the window is so they are fairly low priority.
• Your assumption is wrong. Right now my goal is simple, easy to constantly do combo's in order to help cut back on human error. My mind set isn't the daunting task of fully unlock all of Sheik combo's but to just get at least something we can depend upon.
  
• HM, I didn't know dthrow into usmash worked. That's pretty cool to know but sadly I'm pretty sure if they VI up or maybe even away they will always avoid the usmash. This is just my assumption though some brief testing should be done to say the least. Thank you.
• Bair into dacus doesn't surprise me, you could do that in Brawl as well.
• Yup it does... Did you know fair does too?

I guess the only real interesting note I have right now, which for the record I still do not acknowledge, is how fthrow while facing right seems to have greater knock back then fthrow to the left. It makes absolutely no sense and the game seem to think they give same knock back but in our Fthrow testing on a few occasions something that would work to the left would constantly fail to the right. Human error is always a factor in these things but when something is that constant it's hard to argue against.

Yeah, needles> BF is only a true combo for about 10%-15%. Kinda sucks that the window is so small. The spacing here is also very important. We can always hit people for needles at a specific %. Hitting them at the right distance is the difficult part.

For some characters I believe that would be true, but it should work on a handful of the cast. From what I tested last night it works on about 80% of the cast. After I test VI I assume that list is going to be cut in half. Maybe about 40% or so.

What is different between Bair> DACUS in Smash4 though is the greater hit stun. It should be a lot more useful now than what it was in Brawl.

Fair eh.....

I need to test what is safe on shield. I am thinking a properly spaced fair> d-tilt might be safe on most people. The coolest thing though is that like previous games, d-tilt shield pokes. If it doesn't it seems to push them back far enough to keep you from being shield grabbed.

your sensei Greninja.

I stopped reading here.

 

[MartinAW4]

Heh, what a cute Kohai you are.

Haha, nice. But seriously, did you guys know that Sheik`s Usmash hits twice against characters that are taller than her? It works even if the opponent is standing on the ground, but it is not easy to land since you have to perform it while standing inside of them. It deals 26% if uncharged and 36% if fully charged making it a very powerful move, but the knockback is relatively low because only the knockback from the sourspot hit is taken into account.
Another problem is that it only works at low % (up to around 20-40% depending on character), at higher % the opponent gets launched too high by the sweetspot Usmash hit for the sourspot Usmash hit to connect.
So usually it`s probably better to stick to the Fair -> Utilt -> Grab combos at low % but if you need a quick 26% damage, I think it`s good to know that the option is there.

 

[saviorslegacy]

It has hit twice for years......

 

[MartinAW4]

It has hit twice for years......

Oh look, a Sheik user with a frog avatar in the rain. Doesn`t that make you a Greninja? In that case no wonder you`d know about our secret dual hit Usmash technique. I just hope I didn`t blow your cover.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Oh look, a Sheik user with a frog avatar in the rain. Doesn`t that make you a Greninja? In that case no wonder you`d know about our secret dual hit Usmash technique. I just hope I didn`t blow your cover.

I had this picture as my facebook pic before Greninja was even a thing. I recently started using it last year before Greninja was announced.
I just thought it was funny. The fact that it is a frog and that Greninja is a frog is pure coincidence.

And for the record, frogger stole Sheiks USmash. He is like the annoying fan from Oblivion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XynVaIw_3t8

Samus 0-5%

I just tested this.
If you hold back on the analog it combos until 20%.

Sheik at 170% and Samus at 170%
Fthrow> jump> bouncing fish is a combo


We need data on bouncing fish kill percents at different parts on the stage.

Actually in Brawl on several occasions in brawl I managed to do grounded turn around bs (which is the precursor to i guess what you would call a wave bounce). For clarity i always revered to B-reverse as a b move in the opposite direction that switched your momentum, and a turn around b as a the same thing without the momentum swap (the inpt was hitting the opposite direction, then coming to neutral, then hitting b) and everything else was a combination of those 2. It was possible to do double reverses (do a turn around input, then do the standard b reverse as if you were facing the other way to swap momentum and be facing the direction you were facing initially).

Anyway I was trying to find a way to do needle glides (where you run off stage charging needles and maintain dash momentum for those who didn't know in Brawl) while facing inward on the stage (so a needle glide facing backwards with no momentum swap) to straight up **** diddy kongs recovery. I actually had managed to do it several times on accident while practicing b reverse needle glides (off platforms usually but I got it to trigger offstage on solid non platform floors). I had a few replays in brawl of my doing them. I asked several pretty mechanic savy people (such as GiMR) to help me figure out how to replicate it (reliably and not on accident once every 15 tries) but we never could.

Many people when i told them said they didn't think it was possible for the reason you described, which ordinarily I would also agree with, except i had already done it (part of the reason I saved the replays).

You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWIboa5zJWI
If so, it's not a wave bounce, it's a b turn around.
I see what you mean by tricky though, good god it is annoying to perform.

 

[Tristan_win]

We need data on bouncing fish kill percents at different parts on the stage.

Mario
111% Far right
149% Center
182% Far left, sent right

158% if jumping from center. BF hit at the apex of Mario jump.

These are all listed when the 'kill effect' happens. All testing was done in training mode.

 

[Jackson]

It's honestly surprising to me (in a good way) that you guys enjoy testing. I could never stand it unless it's a cool new AT. Regardless, thanks for doing that stuff, guys.

 

[Tristan_win]

It's honestly surprising to me (in a good way) that you guys enjoy testing. I could never stand it unless it's a cool new AT. Regardless, thanks for doing that stuff, guys.

Testing new AT and how to apply them is a lot of fun but when it comes to gather data the mindset I use is

'Once I'm done not only will Sheik as a character will be permanently better but so will I'

 

[Jackson]

Testing new AT and how to apply them is a lot of fun but when it comes to gather data the mindset I use is

'Once I'm done not only will Sheik as a character will be permanently better but so will I'

Good point. I can respect that work ethic.

 

[_Tree]

I agree. I've got to respect you guys for the amount of work you're putting in with this. This is really great information to know.

 

[JuJux]

Fair eh.....

I need to test what is safe on shield. I am thinking a properly spaced fair> d-tilt might be safe on most people. The coolest thing though is that like previous games, d-tilt shield pokes. If it doesn't it seems to push them back far enough to keep you from being shield grabbed.
.

To be safe on shield, I prefer : Properly spaced Fair (and just before hitting the ground) > Jab 1 as jab has the fastest startup and prevent you from being shieldgrab and now that grabs doesn't have super armor anymore. If the jab land, just jab 1 / 2 reset and dash grab (never do a full jab) or Dtilt on some characters, or if you're against greyninja ou bowser just jab 1 and run/roll away ! (or rejump to Fair > Jab ect) as Bowser will laugh at you're jab and Grey just have to mash a jab like a tard.

 

[saviorslegacy]

To be safe on shield, I prefer : Properly spaced Fair (and just before hitting the ground) > Jab 1 as jab has the fastest startup and prevent you from being shieldgrab and now that grabs doesn't have super armor anymore. If the jab land, just jab 1 / 2 reset and dash grab (never do a full jab) or Dtilt on some characters, or if you're against greyninja ou bowser just jab 1 and run/roll away ! (or rejump to Fair > Jab ect) as Bowser will laugh at you're jab and Grey just have to mash a jab like a tard.

I don't think jab is that safe......
The reason why I think d-tilt is, is because it will either shield poke or push them away. Also you are crouched so that helps.
This could destroy ZSS.

 

[TreeFire80]

Hey, is there a reason that there's a section for perfect pivots and perfect pivot ftilts but not one for perfect pivot fsmashes? I typically find it more useful and definitely worth a mention

 

[Jackson]

Hey, is there a reason that there's a section for perfect pivots and perfect pivot ftilts but not one for perfect pivot fsmashes? I typically find it more useful and definitely worth a mention

I used to have it but removed it for some reason, can't remember why. I added it back.

But while I have you here, Sheik's Fsmash is generally considered a lackluster move.

 

[?.?]

I used to have it but removed it for some reason, can't remember why. I added it back.

But while I have you here, Sheik's Fsmash is generally considered a lackluster move.

I hate it simply because in brawl everyone would DI out of it making it virtually useless, that and you have much better punish/ko options almost all the time.

 

[Jackson]

I hate it simply because in brawl everyone would DI out of it making it virtually useless, that and you have much better punish/ko options almost all the time.

You basically said it - there's always better options.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The only time FSmash is useful is if their shield breaks and they are at kill percents from a fully charged FSmash.
If they aren't at kill percents you might as well just combo grenade into bouncing fish. Just make sure that the nade does not hit them other wise they will no longer be stunned.

Also, I just tested bouncing fish and it is very disjointed. Like go attack a bomb omb with it and take no damage disjointed.

So I just tested weak Nair> BF on ROB w/o VI. It is a true combo and combos from about 110% to 165%.
Yeah.... I would imagine that with VI we will have about a 20% "you're ****ed son" window.

 

[Tristan_win]

..... ~SIGHS~ So the first real update came out. Here's everything different people have notice so far.

Nerfs
Sheik Bouncing Fish has had a knock back nerf. I'm unsure how much but it takes roughly 20% more to kill.
Sheik unable to edge cancel her bouncing fish..... Q__________Q
Uair got nerf harder, now taking roughly 25% more to kill.
Needles seem to stack slower and have more cool down on thrown.
Sheik fair does 5% now instead of 6%
There might be more....

Buffs
Side B grenade seem to travel more horizontally? (maybe)
Everyone else who got nerf.

 

[DKwill]

This is so tragic... her bouncing fish also cannot retreat as far backward after successfully connecting. UGH.

 

[Tristan_win]

This is so tragic... her bouncing fish also cannot retreat as far backward after successfully connecting. UGH.

I don't see any difference.

 

[Crelrn]

A single tear has been shed