The Sheik Compendium of Advanced Techniques, Combos, and Tricks (Wii U)

[VGPhaze]

I realized I posted this into the wrong thread (general sheik discussion) so I'm going to put it here. I figured something out:
Her custom up special "Gale" can be canceled for almost no landing lag if you end the animation perfectly right on the ground. I have footage of it here:

youtube.com/watch?v=FXytgXWdEJs&index=1&list=UUUljcISwxfHgFJvVBGOH84g

You'll have to copy/paste the link sry :/

 

[und3r_Score]

I realized I posted this into the wrong thread (general sheik discussion) so I'm going to put it here. I figured something out:
Her custom up special "Gale" can be canceled for almost no landing lag if you end the animation perfectly right on the ground. I have footage of it here:

youtube.com/watch?v=FXytgXWdEJs&index=1&list=UUUljcISwxfHgFJvVBGOH84g

You'll have to copy/paste the link sry :/

Yes! I thought I had noticed this last night at one point while recovering and tried it out some more today. It's good even at lower angles, in which case you can even slide just a little bit when you hit the ground.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Here is the angle at which needles are thrown whilst in the air.

 

[VGPhaze]

It's good even at lower angles, in which case you can even slide just a little bit when you hit the ground.

Yeah I pulled it off on some lower angled jumps too! Those are tougher to time but I bet they'll be easier with a GameCube controller... And really useful!

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Anyone seen this yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo&list=UUUrNeTSE-9VfVr0LF-VT4iA

 

[Tristan_win]

Anyone seen this yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo&list=UUUrNeTSE-9VfVr0LF-VT4iA

I just saw this and came running to the sheik forums.

I have to say this is pretty damn hype since we can do this out of run making our approaches even more...


....ninja...

This might be the first real tech all Sheik users should use.

edit: Of course Diddy can use it too...yay...

 

[MattCon5]

Hey guys I don't know if this is necessarily considered an AT but if you hit the walls of a stage with the startup frames of bouncing fish and direct it into the stage wall, you will ride the wall of the stage up and snap onto the ledge at the appropriate length. It's useful as another way to edgestall/edgeguard low and you can also use it to recover low!

 

[saviorslegacy]

Anyone seen this yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo&list=UUUrNeTSE-9VfVr0LF-VT4iA

Ground reversed needles has always been a thing. Most people never used it in this manner though. Most people used it to catch their opponent off guard and get some damage in with needles.

While not new, you are looking at it in a new light.
It should also be noted that in Brawl I found that if done correctly you can effectively do this off of the stage and bounce back onto the stage. Absolutely useless, but still a neat idea.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I just saw this and came running to the sheik forums.

I have to say this is pretty damn hype since we can do this out of run making our approaches even more...


....ninja...

This might be the first real tech all Sheik users should use.

edit: Of course Diddy can use it too...yay...

LOL diddy can do anything

Ground reversed needles has always been a thing. Most people never used it in this manner though. Most people used it to catch their opponent off guard and get some damage in with needles.

While not new, you are looking at it in a new light.
It should also be noted that in Brawl I found that if done correctly you can effectively do this off of the stage and bounce back onto the stage. Absolutely useless, but still a neat idea.

Yeah, I thought that it was already a thing, i just never had seen been used like this.
Can't wait to see what more tech people can find though

 

[Signia]

Apparently this Brawl tech also possible in Smash 4, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL4DFxJLO5M

I saw GIMR doing this in Smash 4 with Sheik after landing, and it also worked after landing with fair. Looked pretty useful. Anyone want to investigate?

 

[BigHairyFart]

Nobody seem to have posted this yet, but I've had a LOT of success with F-Throw/B-Throw>Gravity Grenade(Side 2)>Sweetspotted U-Smash.

 

[Equalox]

Anyone seen this yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo&list=UUUrNeTSE-9VfVr0LF-VT4iA

Yeah, it feels like i am going to break my circle pad when doing it. I duno maybe i am being too aggressive with the motion when trying to preform it xp

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Yeah, it feels like i am going to break my circle pad when doing it. I duno maybe i am being too aggressive with the motion when trying to preform it xp

You're just being too aggressive, thats all

 

[_Tree]

Had some free time when I wasn't editing or studying, so here's some random data (It's a little rough, but should suffice).

I was able to register F-throw -> Bouncing Fish as a true combo on Little Mac up until 130% in training mode. Up until 60% you can F-throw and lead into bouncing fish from the ground. After 60% you have to jump a little after F-throw in order to land Bouncing fish, but it's still registered as a true combo. This works up until 130%, where he is sent too far away for bouncing fish to register as true. I assume this would work for all characters with similar weight/falling speed to Little Mac.

I was also able to register a true three-hit combo on Little Mac at 20%. If you jump in with Fair, walk up to him when he's in the air and F-tilt and then jump and Fair again, the counter counts it as a true three-hit combo. It was tough to land though. The final Fair requires good timing, and even then it looked like I was hitting him with the outer-most portion of the hitbox. It should be easier with practice though.

 

[saviorslegacy]

So I found this today.... <3 tells me that cross found it already, so I'll post it here for good measure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7sW97NU-R4&feature=youtu.be

Only a better option than jabs last hit when they are at kill percents.

To perform simply be close to the ledge if not right on top of the ledge, auto attack, let sheik fall off when she goes to finish the attack and buffer a Nair or a Fair,

 

[Wasserwipf]

So I found this today.... <3 tells me that cross found it already, so I'll post it here for good measure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7sW97NU-R4&feature=youtu.be

Only a better option than jabs last hit when they are at kill percents.

To perform simply be close to the ledge if not right on top of the ledge, auto attack, let sheik fall off when she goes to finish the attack and buffer a Nair or a Fair,

Gif of the same thing, <3 playing Sheik, me playing poor Ike: http://abload.de/img/jabfootstooleditc1srh.gif
As far as testing goes, Nair is a true combo (says trainingmode).

@B-rev slide cancle thingy, it was mentiond in this topic on page two. Search for AmKhokars post on page 2. Kinda cool how many people jumped onto this because of the video. What i wanted to ask, can someboddy make this happening using Wavebounce instead of B-rev? That would be godlike.

As for combos, if you hit somebody in the Air with fair or Nair and land on a platform (eg on battlefield) you can true combo into f-tilt quite often. And then maybe follow up with another Nair or something.

 

[an1bal]

Had some free time when I wasn't editing or studying, so here's some random data (It's a little rough, but should suffice).

I was able to register F-throw -> Bouncing Fish as a true combo on Little Mac up until 130% in training mode. Up until 60% you can F-throw and lead into bouncing fish from the ground. After 60% you have to jump a little after F-throw in order to land Bouncing fish, but it's still registered as a true combo. This works up until 130%, where he is sent too far away for bouncing fish to register as true. I assume this would work for all characters with similar weight/falling speed to Little Mac.

I was also able to register a true three-hit combo on Little Mac at 20%. If you jump in with Fair, walk up to him when he's in the air and F-tilt and then jump and Fair again, the counter counts it as a true three-hit combo. It was tough to land though. The final Fair requires good timing, and even then it looked like I was hitting him with the outer-most portion of the hitbox. It should be easier with practice though.

Loving that fthrow to bfish!

Poor Mac will have nightmares about sheik. I've been practicing the chaingrab combo on him and it can lead to really early deaths. Couple of vids here and here

 

[Absol]

Had some free time when I wasn't editing or studying, so here's some random data (It's a little rough, but should suffice).

I was able to register F-throw -> Bouncing Fish as a true combo on Little Mac up until 130% in training mode. Up until 60% you can F-throw and lead into bouncing fish from the ground. After 60% you have to jump a little after F-throw in order to land Bouncing fish, but it's still registered as a true combo. This works up until 130%, where he is sent too far away for bouncing fish to register as true. I assume this would work for all characters with similar weight/falling speed to Little Mac.

I was also able to register a true three-hit combo on Little Mac at 20%. If you jump in with Fair, walk up to him when he's in the air and F-tilt and then jump and Fair again, the counter counts it as a true three-hit combo. It was tough to land though. The final Fair requires good timing, and even then it looked like I was hitting him with the outer-most portion of the hitbox. It should be easier with practice though.

Taking anything you find in training mode with a grain of salt when it comes to "combos". Especially since the cpu DI's according to your position and not follow ups.

 

[tebby]

would be cool to see video demonstrations of these techniques

im a scrub tryna take his smash game to the next level

 

[saviorslegacy]

Gif of the same thing, <3 playing Sheik, me playing poor Ike: http://abload.de/img/jabfootstooleditc1srh.gif
As far as testing goes, Nair is a true combo (says trainingmode).

@B-rev slide cancle thingy, it was mentiond in this topic on page two. Search for AmKhokars post on page 2. Kinda cool how many people jumped onto this because of the video. What i wanted to ask, can someboddy make this happening using Wavebounce instead of B-rev? That would be godlike.

As for combos, if you hit somebody in the Air with fair or Nair and land on a platform (eg on battlefield) you can true combo into f-tilt quite often. And then maybe follow up with another Nair or something.

That is wave bouncing. Here i what it's like in the air in brawl. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiAg0sozXE8&list=UU1yhcbWw9edICnELf4qhyJw

 

[Wasserwipf]

That is wave bouncing. Here i what it's like in the air in brawl. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiAg0sozXE8&list=UU1yhcbWw9edICnELf4qhyJw

Well the thing showed in the Video higher up is Breversing. This is indeed wavebouncing. However, I want too see that being done on the ground. Like running forward, then reversing this, thus sliding back, but still facing the same direction.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Well the thing showed in the Video higher up is Breversing. This is indeed wavebouncing. However, I want too see that being done on the ground. Like running forward, then reversing this, thus sliding back, but still facing the same direction.

I actually showed b reversing and wave bouncing. The difference is actually the direction in which Sheik is traveling. If you switch your momentum and move forward it is a b reverse. If you perform a b turn around and then a b reverse you will perform your b move and move in the opposite direction from a normal b reverse. This is a wave bounce.
I was just stupid at the time when I made this video and did not know the difference.

You can however, not wave bounce on the ground. The reason being that any back input to perform a turn around b will put you into a sliding turn around. You can only jump out of this. In other words, a wave bounce on the ground is impossible.


I am honestly not as excited about this tech as some of you seem to be. I spent a lot of time in Brawl trying to use a grounded b reverse, pivot walking and moon dashing for spacing. The only problem is that not only do they require a very specific analog input which feels very awkward but they also require you to have a certain amount of momentum before you can use them, thus a start up time. Wave dashing is only good because you can hammer the input in very fast (not unlike DACUS) and because wave dashing involved jumping. If wave dashing required you to be in a sticky dash and did no involve jumping or if it required you to dash first and only went one direction, then it would have seen little to no use.
The only use that this has is as a fake out. In Melee some times players would run at the foe in hopes that they would perform an action. The way they would punish would be to wave dash back and then counter attack. Marth was notorious for doing this and then fsmash.

Honestly we already have perfect back peddling spacing tool. Dash, input f-tilt/fsmash backwards. The only thing we need for our spacing game is the ability to do that same thing but forwards. If we could cancel our needles on it's first couple of frames while running forward and then not getting a shield out then we would be set. This could be used for not only combos, but as a very nice spacing game.

 

[_Tree]

Taking anything you find in training mode with a grain of salt when it comes to "combos". Especially since the cpu DI's according to your position and not follow ups.

That's exactly why I pointed out that I got it to register in training mode, and not with a human opponent. I'll be able to test out it's legitimacy with a friend or two soon, but until then that's what I've got.

 

[SirKenneth]

I am having a ton of trouble with ground reverse needle. I just keep getting dodge roll. I can get it sometimes but man does the timing seem strict. Anyone have any pointers? Does it seem that strict to any one else?

EDIT: also on the times I do get it i don't really get that "slide"

 

[Equalox]

I just dash and let go, and press B
right after i press B i press the other way. Then i shield out of it to make it look kool XD
it is all about timing and once you get if a few times you will start to develop the muscle memory for it ^-^

I was having issues doing it from the start also, i was even being too aggressive with the input. Just relax and practice offline.

 

[Nananana_BATMAN!]

Not really sure how often it works, but messing around on For Glory I've encountered a potential high percent kill combo involving Down Throw. Starting at about 120% if you Dthrow and read which way your opponent is going to DI and step to the side opposite of that you can jump into Bouncing Fish. Again, not sure how garunteed this really is. I'll go ahead and test it some more tonight to see how good it truly is.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure how noteworthy this is. I'm fairly new to this.

Sorry if this was just a waste of time.

 

[saviorslegacy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmpiGPU-b74 this is still very possible in smash 4. In fact, it is easier to do now and goes farther. I was able to go to the far side under the corner of the platform.

 

[SirKenneth]

How do you do this on smash 4? I never took brawl serious so I'm not so hip with brawl tech. I mainly played melee (which is why sheik is so fun in this she feels like a melee character)

 

[Jackson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmpiGPU-b74 this is still very possible in smash 4. In fact, it is easier to do now and goes farther. I was able to go to the far side under the corner of the platform.

Really cool. Adding this to the thread, thanks.

 

[Dagon97]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmpiGPU-b74 this is still very possible in smash 4. In fact, it is easier to do now and goes farther. I was able to go to the far side under the corner of the platform.

thats pretty insane good job,

Is there a fair chain chart anywhere?

 

[SirKenneth]

Hmm I actually did it a couple times. Pretty weird to get the hang of. I'm assuming it can only be done on right side. I tried it on left and I feel like I got it a little bit but not really

 

[saviorslegacy]

It can be done on any slope.

I'll be gone for 2 weeks. Don't expect a reply for a while.

 

[Shinobi1]

Awesome guide! Helped out a lot.

 

[Jackson]

Awesome guide! Helped out a lot.

Thanks, man. It's always nice to hear that kind of thing.

 

[Utena]

I've been practicing the chaingrab combo on him and it can lead to really early deaths. Couple of vids here and here

lmao there is no way this will work on a good human player....

this was true in the early brawl meta and its true now... please dont confuse "combos" with tech chases or even worse hard reads.

 

[Jackson]

lmao there is no way this will work on a good human player....

this was true in the early brawl meta and its true now... please dont confuse "combos" with tech chases or even worse hard reads.

What? Uair could not spike like this in Brawl. Don't bash it until you understand.

 

[GeZ]

lmao there is no way this will work on a good human player....

this was true in the early brawl meta and its true now... please dont confuse "combos" with tech chases or even worse hard reads.

Don't confuse combos with tech chases or hard reads? Are you high? If you tech chase and catch them then it combos. If you hard read and it hits them it's comboing. What are you trying to say with this post.

 

[Utena]

when someone calls something a "combo" i think of a frame trapping, true combo. like, the follow up is guaranteed.
i dont see a guaranteed follow up after this uair. you might be able to follow up if you correctly guess where theyre going, but i doubt you can trap a character through this based on pure reaction time alone.

it seems like it would be easy to smash di out of the uair before it finishes, vector up/away to escape the grab, or roll before sheik can do anything because of her landing lag.

 

[an1bal]

when someone calls something a "combo" i think of a frame trapping, true combo. like, the follow up is guaranteed.
i dont see a guaranteed follow up after this uair. you might be able to follow up if you correctly guess where theyre going, but i doubt you can trap a character through this based on pure reaction time alone.

it seems like it would be easy to smash di out of the uair before it finishes, vector up/away to escape the grab, or roll before sheik can do anything because of her landing lag.

If done right its unescapable up to certain percentages. I dont think you understand how it works. Check out the vids posted, just saw one of Dedede doing the same thing.

 

[Utena]

is there a video of it on a human... u can do a lot of bizarre things in training mode tbh