The Sheik Compendium of Advanced Techniques, Combos, and Tricks (Wii U)

[Anjo_Smash]

I'm not sure if this has been discovered yet or whatever, but i thought I'd mention that forward and back throw to bouncing fish can be a true combo if you cancel the bouncing fish early.

I was able to get forward throw to bouncing fish register as a true combo on Falcon in training even at REALLY high percents (like 180) I mash jump after the throw to get a quick double jump and then I mash down b. I've used this to kill the falcon main I play with a lot. Works on other characters too, but many can vector too high for it.

Also, weak nair combos into bouncing fish on grounded opponents at higher percents, it can be deadly. You can also combo shff fair into it.

 

[BigHairyFart]

I'm not sure if this has been discovered yet or whatever, but i thought I'd mention that forward and back throw to bouncing fish can be a true combo if you cancel the bouncing fish early.

I was able to get forward throw to bouncing fish register as a true combo on Falcon in training even at REALLY high percents (like 180) I mash jump after the throw to get a quick double jump and then I mash down b. I've used this to kill the falcon main I play with a lot. Works on other characters too, but many can vector too high for it.

Also, weak nair combos into bouncing fish on grounded opponents at higher percents, it can be deadly. You can also combo shff fair into it.

I assume this only goes for the default one?

 

[False]

Lol at b-reversing being only 2/5 'usefulness'

It's great for establishing zoning positions. If you want to respect your opponents space, running away to give space for whatever they're going to do then just bombarding them with needles is a really good mix up lol. It's sort of a safe approach to staying in their zone and trying to fight them. It's a good decision when you're trying to avoid getting killed or playing keep away.

 

[Araxies]

Hey guys, idk if this has been discovered yet or not but i found a way to Fish from the ledge to standing without the frames needed to drop/jump. All you have to do is while holding the ledge tap down + B and then the direction you want to recover onto the stage. I'd say it takes about half the frames that it takes to do the full "drop, jump, Fish, recover" and is less technically challenging as well.

Note: have only tried this on battlefield. Also, if not done perfectly, you'll bounce off the highest point of the ledge and fish directly above the edge(which i guess could be beneficial) or do a standard edge attack recovery.

EDIT: uhh, nvm guys i don't think i came up with anything new. Especially since all that it seems like you have to do while holding the ledge is tap down + B and you automatically Fish roll the recovery.

 

[Jackson]

Lol at b-reversing being only 2/5 'usefulness'

It's great for establishing zoning positions. If you want to respect your opponents space, running away to give space for whatever they're going to do then just bombarding them with needles is a really good mix up lol. It's sort of a safe approach to staying in their zone and trying to fight them. It's a good decision when you're trying to avoid getting killed or playing keep away.

I'll change it. The problem is that the Usefulness rating is all my opinion as of now and B-reversing is something I don't utilize in my playstyle very much now. You are correct, though. And I do plan to use it a lot on Wii U, i just dont really bother with it on 3DS.

 

[saviorslegacy]

This is still possible, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcrtM_e89Nc&list=UU1yhcbWw9edICnELf4qhyJw

 

[Jackson]

This is still possible, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcrtM_e89Nc&list=UU1yhcbWw9edICnELf4qhyJw

I believe this is Needle Gliding. (or very similar)

 

[saviorslegacy]

Actually it is not. It is ledge canceling. Needle gliding is where the momentum is carried over the ledge allowing you to continue traveling in a forward trajectory. This is canceling the needle throwing animation and putting you into a neutral state allowing you to take any action you want from the air.

 

[Jackson]

Actually it is not. It is ledge canceling. Needle gliding is where the momentum is carried over the ledge allowing you to continue traveling in a forward trajectory. This is canceling the needle throwing animation and putting you into a neutral state allowing you to take any action you want from the air.

Ah, ok, interesting. Do you know of the inputs to perform this tech?

 

[saviorslegacy]

If your needles are fully charged then run up to the edge and press B before you would press B to needle glide. The animation should start and you will fall off canceling the attack. If your needles are not fully charged then you need to press B twice before you reach the edge or you will perform a pathetic needle glide. The result should be Sheik throwing 1 to 2 needles and then entering a normal fall parallel to the stage.

This obviously is a true combo into every aerial, except maybe dair.

 

[Jackson]

If your needles are fully charged then run up to the edge and press B before you would press B to needle glide. The animation should start and you will fall off canceling the attack. If your needles are not fully charged then you need to press B twice before you reach the edge or you will perform a pathetic needle glide. The result should be Sheik throwing 1 to 2 needles and then entering a normal fall parallel to the stage.

This obviously is a true combo into every aerial, except maybe dair.

Sounds cool, thanks, I'm gonna try this out later.

 

[Anjo_Smash]

I assume this only goes for the default one?

Yes the combos I described are for default sheik. Have not tested any custom moves.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

What are Sheik's viable combos. I fought a player who used Ftilt into a double fair, but I can never pull them off. And what about throw combos? DThrow Uair doesn't seem to work as a viable kill at high percents.

 

[Jackson]

What are Sheik's viable combos. I fought a player who used Ftilt into a double fair, but I can never pull them off. And what about throw combos? DThrow Uair doesn't seem to work as a viable kill at high percents.

Ftilt to Uair and Dthrow to Uair are our main damage rackers. Fair strings are great. Ftilt strings are nice at low percents. Nair into grab works a lot for me. Fthrow also has a lot of followups. A lot of Sheik combos revolve around her fantastic grab game, so make use of it. Surprise opponents with boost grab/roll cancel grabs and profit.

 

[?.?]

Fair is love fair is life, but seriously master the knockback/staling on this move and you'll have the best comboing move in the game lol. I've shorthop faired people across FD, sure I'm pretty sure they didn't know about DI/VI but it still happened and I laughed my face off.

 

[BlueXenon]

I've played for glory mode for a few hours since I got the game, and I've been punishing air dodge landings with Sheik's up b a lot. I think it's more reliable than a smash attack because your hurtbox is temporarily invincible and it's still decently strong. I also found several other great uses for her up b, but when I watch Sheik players on twitch streams, they never use this move except to recover. Is there a reason why this move isn't used often for punishes?

 

[?.?]

Well, other than the anti-sheik/palutena/zelda trick. I think it's mostly because in brawl vanish was rarely used outside of recovery/vanish gliding due to easy punishes by good players. I know if I ever tried to use vanish with my training partner he would wreck me for it... That could be an isolated experience though.

 

[Wasserwipf]

I've played for glory mode for a few hours since I got the game, and I've been punishing air dodge landings with Sheik's up b a lot. I think it's more reliable than a smash attack because your hurtbox is temporarily invincible and it's still decently strong. I also found several other great uses for her up b, but when I watch Sheik players on twitch streams, they never use this move except to recover. Is there a reason why this move isn't used often for punishes?

Go play <π once and then ask that question again. Well, it won't be necessary thought.
No seriously, the Up-B is good. If your opponennt has no clue what hes doing even better. It has invicibilityframes on startup, godlike KO power, and good for ledgegames. If you drop your opponent of the ledge, you can start Up B, and when it explodes when he has the ledge grabbed (due to him not gaining any invulnerability) he'll get stagespiked. This move is really good. Believe me, I learned it the hard way^^

 

[Jackson]

Go play <π once and then ask that question again. Well, it won't be necessary thought.
No seriously, the Up-B is good. If your opponennt has no clue what hes doing even better. It has invicibilityframes on startup, godlike KO power, and good for ledgegames. If you drop your opponent of the ledge, you can start Up B, and when it explodes when he has the ledge grabbed (due to him not gaining any invulnerability) he'll get stagespiked. This move is really good. Believe me, I learned it the hard way^^

Did James use up B a lot?

 

[Nananana_BATMAN!]

As a Sheik main I can't thank you enough for compiling all this information into such a convenient thread.

And thank you equally, if not more to those who discovered all these.

 

[Jackson]

As a Sheik main I can't thank you enough for compiling all this information into such a convenient thread.

And thank you equally, if not more to those who discovered all these.

You're welcome! It's great to hear someone so appreciative.

 

[Nananana_BATMAN!]

You're welcome! It's great to hear someone so appreciative.

It's the least I can do to show my appreciation.

 

[AmKhokar]

Mk, so I figured out you can b-reversal on the ground with needles. Just dash, let stick return to neutral, hit B, then mash stick in other direction immediately. Additionally, you can instantly cancel your needle charge with shield (If done perfectly, the shield will cancel before even the first needle charges / before the first needle sound is made).

Combine these two techniques and you have what I'd call shield bouncing, where you b-reverse needle cancel into shield, allowing you to instantly pivot shield out of a run or initial dash.

Here's a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cmKejuikgM&feature=youtu.be


Apologies for the poor quality. I recorded this on my phone. In most of the attempts, a needle was charged before shield cancel. At :10, I do a perfect shield bounce where you don't see the needle charge animation occur. I'll upload a better version later.

 

[toki]

Hey guys, just a question.
Is it guaranteed for Sheik's down throw to connect into a f-air/u-air? I realised I cant escape it even vectoring all direction, during 70~90%-ish (gotta double check on the %) Any good advices for it?
Please note that im just guessing the %'s, I havent tested anything so I cant give an accurate %.

eg. Sheik d-throws me at 70%, I vector up, Sheik will still be able to get me with an u-air.
I vector diagonally forward-up, Sheik is able to get me with f-air.
If I vector to the opposite direction where Sheik is facing me, she is still able to get me. And obviously if I vector down anything, ill easily get hit. And yes, I cannot air dodge. Its during the hitstun (grabstun?)

This kinda applies when you're above 100% as well. If you dont vector up after Sheik's d-throw, her u-air/f-air will most likely get you.

I'd love to discuss this and would like to hear other people's opinions as well. I've been keeping all this in mind when I play Sheik or when I play against Sheik.

 

[sGale]

I mean, I saw the discussion earlier, but should JC Grabs be in the OP when it wasn't in brawl? It isn't in the 3DS version so why is it assumed to be in WiiU?

 

[Jackson]

Mk, so I figured out you can b-reversal on the ground with needles. Just dash, let stick return to neutral, hit B, then mash stick in other direction immediately. Additionally, you can instantly cancel your needle charge with shield (If done perfectly, the shield will cancel before even the first needle charges / before the first needle sound is made).

Combine these two techniques and you have what I'd call shield bouncing, where you b-reverse needle cancel into shield, allowing you to instantly pivot shield out of a run or initial dash.

Here's a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cmKejuikgM&feature=youtu.be


Apologies for the poor quality. I recorded this on my phone. In most of the attempts, a needle was charged before shield cancel. At :10, I do a perfect shield bounce where you don't see the needle charge animation occur. I'll upload a better version later.

The thing you mentioned first is called a turnaround B. It was in Brawl and Melee.

 

[BlueXenon]

On Yoshi's Island, when your opponent is standing on stage, right near the ledge, and you're on the ledge, you can drop down, wall cling, wall jump, and then footstool your opponent. I'm not 100% that this is how you execute it because it happens too quickly. It's similar to ZSS' down b footstool in brawl, which Salem utilized a lot on the ledge.

 

[saviorslegacy]

At certain percents fully charged needles is a true combo into bouncing fish. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB4vWKKzTsU&list=UUb9Z8f8ATz8azrL8U5KBk2Q&index=1
I know it is hard to see but the combo meter reads 7.

Also, at low percents F-Throw is a true combo into bouncing fish. This does a total of 19%.
At high percents you can use this as a mix up on fast fallers. I was unable to get it to read as an actual combo in training mode, thought it looks very close. You have to jump before you use bouncing fish though.

 

[Jackson]

At certain percents fully charged needles is a true combo into bouncing fish. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB4vWKKzTsU&list=UUb9Z8f8ATz8azrL8U5KBk2Q&index=1
I know it is hard to see but the combo meter reads 7.

Also, at low percents F-Throw is a true combo into bouncing fish. This does a total of 19%.
At high percents you can use this as a mix up on fast fallers. I was unable to get it to read as an actual combo in training mode, thought it looks very close. You have to jump before you use bouncing fish though.

Cool, this confirms a lot of stuff we've been talking about. And @ BlueXenon , that's pretty interesting!

 

[saviorslegacy]

I was curious at how effective decay fair is. Answer is.... fat people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZVc-NPYc4I&list=UUb9Z8f8ATz8azrL8U5KBk2Q&index=1
It could be a legit combo if you practiced it enough. I kept screwing up the timing on fair since you have to fast fall. That is why Dedede was hitting the ground. This doesn't work on Mario at all. It works on fatties/fast fallers like Link, Fox and Little Mac.
I only used fatties because I was having a few issues actually pulling a perfect version off. I hate this damn thumb pad or whatever the **** it is.

I was hoping I could do something like this... but more legit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn5tuTxpwIY

:edit: An absolute perfection version of this might be able to kill Little Mac at 0%. Maybe possible... still can't pull it off.

 

[Jackson]

I was curious at how effective decay fair is. Answer is.... fat people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZVc-NPYc4I&list=UUb9Z8f8ATz8azrL8U5KBk2Q&index=1
It could be a legit combo if you practiced it enough. I kept screwing up the timing on fair since you have to fast fall. That is why Dedede was hitting the ground. This doesn't work on Mario at all. It works on fatties/fast fallers like Link, Fox and Little Mac.
I only used fatties because I was having a few issues actually pulling a perfect version off. I hate this damn thumb pad or whatever the **** it is.

I was hoping I could do something like this... but more legit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn5tuTxpwIY

:edit: An absolute perfection version of this might be able to kill Little Mac at 0%. Maybe possible... still can't pull it off.

Cool stuff. Thanks for the videos.

 

[saviorslegacy]

From my testing d-tilt is our best option to attack people on the ledge.
This is were Sheik need to stand to hit someone on the ledge.




Credit goes to Tristan for the idea of testing this.

 

[Jackson]

From my testing d-tilt is our best option to attack people on the ledge.
This is were Sheik need to stand to hit someone on the ledge.

So it basically just pokes their head?

 

[Tristan_win]

So it basically just pokes their head?

Yeah, there should be more characters then just Mario but it would be good to know who it works on. I was personally going to play around with it once the wiiu came out but ~shrugs~ it would be nice to know.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yeah, there should be more characters then just Mario but it would be good to know who it works on. I was personally going to play around with it once the wiiu came out but ~shrugs~ it would be nice to know.

Actually it works on every character at that distance. It seems like there is a large hit box that is very low.

 

[Tristan_win]

Actually it works on every character at that distance. It seems like there is a large hit box that is very low.

Every characters?

Are you sure? It didn't work on everyone in Brawl so that's pretty surprising and makes me think it was design for this. In Brawl a lot of characters would sort of bounce up and down and on some characters it wouldn't hit them when they were at their lowest point hanging on the ledge.

edit: Well I just did some brief testing on battlefields platforms and judging from how tall Rosaline is makes me think the hit box isn't abnormally big. What is possible though is that a new hurt box has been added to characters hands.

edit2: Falling nair on Rosaline has help reconfirm this point.

 

[Absol]

Something small that I kept to myself in brawl transferred to smash 4. When you needle glide from a platform you can b reverse it and completely switch momentum in the opposite direction while also falling through the platform. Also if you air dodge as soon as you're about to land with the needle glide you can cancel her landing lag as well as her needle pull back animation. Useful for pinballing powershields. Here's a small demonstration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uj8ynmi-20

 

[saviorslegacy]

What is possible though is that a new hurt box has been added to characters hands.

That makes a lot of sense. I thought for sure it wouldn't hit ganon, but it does.

 

[Elemt]

Something small that I kept to myself in brawl transferred to smash 4. When you needle glide from a platform you can b reverse it and completely switch momentum in the opposite direction while also falling through the platform. Also if you air dodge as soon as you're about to land with the needle glide you can cancel her landing lag as well as her needle pull back animation. Useful for pinballing powershields. Here's a small demonstration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uj8ynmi-20

I think the needle cancel you see is the same thing as when you quickly tap shield while charging your needles. You just completely stop the needles being charged and can instantly attack again. You're just doing this when you land. It can be done landing or standing still but the diagonal b-reversal off a ledge is pretty cool

 

[Absol]

I think the needle cancel you see is the same thing as when you quickly tap shield while charging your needles. You just completely stop the needles being charged and can instantly attack again. You're just doing this when you land. It can be done landing or standing still but the diagonal b-reversal off a ledge is pretty cool

I was more or less highlighting the slide you get from it. I failed to mention that.