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The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

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Ryan-K

Smash Master
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Staten Island, NY
os, seriously be quiet

mk will dominate people figure out how to fight him, then people will get better with mk back and win with him again, then people will fight him again etc

look what happened in melee, took like what 5 years for people to start consitently PSing falco lasers and smash DIing fox uairs?

pokemon this happens too, a good set or team idea comes out and *****, it takes a while then people learn how to **** it, then it fades into obscurity, then the metagame moves on and it comes back in when ppl don't expect it etc

like honestly the decision doesnt matter to me but you really are not making yourself look good, cut your losses and move on
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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They split top 3.

Seriously, dude. Just because you've hit a wall doesn't mean everyone else has.
 

goodkid

Smash Lord
Joined
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Homewood, IL
Half of MK's moves are extremely easy to DI out of, I wouldn't ban MK yet, learn the match-up and work on your mindgames. Once you learn that MK won't be such a pain anymore.
 

Kennahh

Smash Apprentice
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Confirmed, sending Magikarp. (Killingworth, CT)
To advance the metagame for other characters so that ways to beat metaknight are found and implemented. Thus, Metaknight dominance drops and the metagame as a whole becomes more balanced.

If you main metaknight and don't like playing with him, you're just being lazy. You'd rather take the easy way out than play another character competitively, figure out ways to defeat metaknight, and help lower the percentage of tournaments won by Metaknights.

If ya wanna help the brawl community grow in a positive manner, main someone else rather than metaknight. Sure you may lose money if you don't place top 3 in the short run, but in the long run you preserve the competitive environment so that there will be tournaments in the future, that metaknight won't dominate.
You don't get the question. If you want to WIN A TOURNAMENT why NOT main Meta Knight.
I don't care about the metagame, I just want to win the tournament and the money.
 

kirbstir

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
1,743
You haven't gotten to any finals yet using pure MK, as far as I can tell. At least for singles.
 

SLAYERCoLdKiLr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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453
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Tornado doesnt work well vs good players, period.
You're stupid.

I would stop there but I don't want to sound like there isn't a reason for calling you stupid.

Brawl is a game that has a limit for every character excluding mindgames and I guess you could call it strategy formed by individual players.

Melee had techskill. There were probably 10 characters that had an equal shot of winning depending on how you use them. Each with drawbacks and positives. The limit in that system was less for top play.

Metaknight breaks this rule. Metaknight is by far the best character, and even when characters like Diddy create a system of playing which almost requires little thought to put into playing him like what NinjaLink does, it doesn't mean Metaknight should be allowed. Metaknight has future to evolve in a game where characters have already reached this point.

People of the same skill level at high level play are dependant on which characters has what limits. Watch Azen's ike vs m2k's metaknight. It's pitiful to watch. Azen then picks metaknight and is pretty equal.

You shouldn't allow a character for the sole reason on "People are finding ways around him to beat him.....but he will constantly evolve". Seriously, that doesn't make sense. If you ban metaknight, each character then can be countered and the system becomes more legit. Stagepicks would mean more, and there will never be the option of losing with your main, then picking metaknight.

Sorry bro, but you main metaknight and have a bias in this arguement. If you want to gain respect from the whole community and not just other meta mains, use a character with limitations, then try to work with it, instead of picking someone with abuseable moves and requires no skill to perform.

And who are you to say that the tornado is ineffective against pro players? Your ****ing dumb for saying that in general

There is no other character which has a more safe recovery and b moves. Tell me it's because of the skill of the person, and you are ignorant of the limits of other characters. If thats true, then the pro should be able to space such a move as the tornado with another character and have the same effect. To berrate the shield, then to run away. I can't think of any other character like that.

For the rest of the people who went in on this decision.

Think about what your thinking of. You're saying that metaknight is able to be beaten. Congrats, DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. OBVIOUSLY everyone player can be beaten no matter what character he picks in this game. If you are just a bad meta player, you'll get beaten.

I thought the whole Idea of this topic was to think about what limits meta has (NONE), what bad matchups meta has (NONE), what POTENTIALLY he can do in the future (ANYTHING). I don't care how anyone else's metaknight does in tournaments, becuase there is such a huge difference in the skill levels of say M2K and Azen. They play this game to a point where they find why Metaknight can win everytime.

It's unfair for people to go up against people like m2k with anyone besides metaknight when versing his metaknight. If you ban metaknight, his best character would be dedede, someone that can easily be countered, and there in lies the equal advantage to everyone that plays this game. This game is broken with metaknight, and becomes a metagame after hes banned. So out of thos options...I pick...

MELEE

Metaknight players fail. Learn this game instead of learning how to 3 stock everycharacter.

Plairnk, you should money match people with someone besides metaknight against their metaknight with the same skill level as you. See how that goes for you
 

dumba989

Smash Apprentice
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YES, no MK ban, now the true skill of players will show and those that still complain need to practice more, very good news
 

Barge

All I want is a custom title
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Hmm, I'm kind of disappointed by their decision. But, things could change.
Just wanted to see more variety at tournaments.
 

M15t3R E

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Thank you for delivering your overall stance on this heated issue, but isn't it still meaningless?
TO's can still ban MK from their tournaments if they wish.
 

XienZo

Smash Lord
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So the SBR just says, "Well, just keep doing what you guys were doing before"? I was hoping we'd get some extremely in-depth plan with a temporary ban in so-and-so region from this date to this date or some other complex thing, but I guess this works out too...

Poor Overswarm....
 

Barge

All I want is a custom title
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Well, you have bias, maining MK and all. But no, it is most definitely not over.
 

brinboy789

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Well, you have bias, maining MK and all. But no, it is most definitely not over.
we all have bias ;_;
how is it not over? its the official SBR decision. sure, TO's can ban him if they want, but the majority of tourneys, he wont be banned.

i mean, like i said before, if anything new discovered sparks up, and the debate sparks again, fine, but its over for now.....right?
 

Naucitos

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Slayer, please tell me what you are trying to say here isn't 'You should be able to beat him, even though hes better than you, and its dumb that you can't beat the player that is better than you'.

And what are you talking about Melee MK players fail? M2K , azen, etc. were also dominating the melee scene

Also, fun fact, the SBR decision actually means VERY little.
People seem to think that if some TO decides to ban MK, everyone in the SBR is going to drive down and say "No, you can't choose the rules in your own tourney, which by the way we have no authority over."
 

Barge

All I want is a custom title
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we all have bias ;_;
how is it not over? its the official SBR decision. sure, TO's can ban him if they want, but the majority of tourneys, he wont be banned.

i mean, like i said before, if anything new discovered sparks up, and the debate sparks again, fine, but its over for now.....right?
If TO's can ban him if they want, then theres still going to be TO's they aren't going to ban him. What people are trying to do is get him banned on a national scale.
 

The Real Inferno

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I would declare it over as soon as people stop putting those retardedly ugly signatures Infinity made in their signatures and those goofy ban ones too.
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
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Glad to see something from the BR.
Even more so that MK will stay on the recommended rules.
I would just hate to see where the metagame would go without MK driving it to keep pushing forward.
 

brinboy789

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If TO's can ban him if they want, then theres still going to be TO's they aren't going to ban him. What people are trying to do is get him banned on a national scale.
well obviously TO's can ban him. TO's can ban falcon for being so bad. TO's can ban anything. but, the national scale thing failed. its the official SBR decision, and probably most tourneys are going to follow it
 

Barge

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well obviously TO's can ban him. TO's can ban falcon for being so bad. TO's can ban anything. but, the national scale thing failed. its the official SBR decision, and probably most tourneys are going to follow it
Sbr isn't god.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
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Personally, I am in favor of banning Meta Knight but not from an official standpoint yet. I feel he is damaging to the game in its current state, but I am more than willing to let the meta game evolve (no pun intended). MK may prove to not be all that great. He might prove to be untouchable. Time will tell. Banning him this early would be more damaging than letting him run loose. :)
 

kirbstir

Smash Lord
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Brawl is a game that has a limit for every character excluding mindgames and I guess you could call it strategy formed by individual players.

Melee had techskill. There were probably 10 characters that had an equal shot of winning depending on how you use them. Each with drawbacks and positives. The limit in that system was less for top play.
This entire section makes little sense. The first half talks about Brawl having a limit for every character, but you don't define what those limits are. Limits in options? Attacks? Life? Viability? In such a general statement, couldn't you say EVERY single fighting game in existence has "a limit for every character excluding mindgames and I guess you could call it strategy formed by individual players"?

The second half says "melee had techskill" then somehow jumps to the fact that there were 10 viable tournament characters. I'm not even sure what "The limit in that system was less for top play." Were these characters less limited? And how?

Metaknight breaks this rule. Metaknight is by far the best character, and even when characters like Diddy create a system of playing which almost requires little thought to put into playing him like what NinjaLink does, it doesn't mean Metaknight should be allowed. Metaknight has future to evolve in a game where characters have already reached this point.
Wow, that's ****ing insulting to NinjaLink. And who are you to claim all characters have already reached their limits? Back when Game Over occurred, I imagine most people there assumed the top of melee play had been reached, but look where melee is now.

People of the same skill level at high level play are dependant on which characters has what limits. Watch Azen's ike vs m2k's metaknight. It's pitiful to watch. Azen then picks metaknight and is pretty equal.
"People of the same skill level using the same character are pretty equal" is all I read out of this. I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion at hand. Similarly, isn't it established that Ike is terrible against MK? So why would you expect this matchup to turn out any differently?

You shouldn't allow a character for the sole reason on "People are finding ways around him to beat him.....but he will constantly evolve". Seriously, that doesn't make sense. If you ban metaknight, each character then can be countered and the system becomes more legit. Stagepicks would mean more, and there will never be the option of losing with your main, then picking metaknight.
It makes more sense than "Ban him because certain players have hit a wall while break-out players are truly showing their skills by beating him." And how does removing a character from the game make matches more legit? If anything they're less legit because they ignore a large part of the metagame that has been evolving while the pro-ban side has been too busy whining to get better.

Sorry bro, but you main metaknight and have a bias in this arguement. If you want to gain respect from the whole community and not just other meta mains, use a character with limitations, then try to work with it, instead of picking someone with abuseable moves and requires no skill to perform.
This is ridiculous - everybody has a bias in this argument. And I'd respect plank less if he limited himself rather than play to his full potential against me. I also think the notion that MK requires no skill to play is unfounded and obviously an over-exaggeration.

I'll respond to the rest of this later.
 

Mew2King

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I just want to point out that most of you people are extremely stupid

I don't care if this is being rude because this is 100% blatant truth at least as far as this topic goes. Only a few of you know what you are even talking about, and the vast majority of TRUE top players are against his ban because pressing B and non-DI'd shuttle loops don't work for winning a big tourney. If you do beat someone with that, they weren't that good (or they were ganon DDD or DK because tornado ***** them)

all you guys do is talk about theories that YOU want to believe. So if I drill someone with Fox in Melee I'm guaranteed to death combo them right? Too bad that's just not practical at all.

btw NL and me went 1-1 in sets that day and the only reason NL lost to DSF is because NL tried Rob and Kirby and lost but the one match he went Diddy he won. He did this I believe to prove he's not a Diddy main but he actually is and I don't see why he cares it doesn't matter but that's what happened.
 

JTB

Live for the applause
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metaknight is dumb

but hes not broken

just sayin
 

Mew2King

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Metaknight players fail. Learn this game instead of learning how to 3 stock everycharacter.

Plairnk, you should money match people with someone besides metaknight against their metaknight with the same skill level as you. See how that goes for you
YOU fail noob. I hate people like you who just talk big but have no game. You use Snake and you cry about MK when they are almost equally good characters. Plank would **** you with Wario and he never practices him. Why don't you money match him, or I'll MM you with Snake or DDD. I haven't used anyone other than MK in months so it should be easy for you.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
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i didn't read most of this thread, but I feel the whole "if you want to, you can ban MK for your own tournament" thing was a little bit of a cop-out... we're all playing the same game, so I don't really see why one rule-set would be good for one segment of the population, while another set would be better for other parts

that's not even mentioning that hosts already know that they can run their own tournaments however they want... just look at the wide variety of stage lists that tournaments all over the country are being played under.

If the SBR truly didn't support a ban of metaknight, then it should really have flat out said that. I don't think trying to mediate the decision by theoretically "allowing organizers to make their own decision" helps at all

and sure, I personally am against banning metaknight at this stage of the game. If you ban him now, there's no turning back
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
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He is saying that Midwest sucks. lol
Midwest doesn't suck though...I'd love to see the best from the midwest go against the best of any other coast. Good matches would probably occur.

And I'm originally from Connecticut so I'm not like, biased towards the midwest or anything >_>
He did this I believe to prove he's not a Diddy main but he actually is and I don't see why he cares it doesn't matter but that's what happened.
XD I found that sentence funny for some reason


You know, I don't really care if Meta Knight is banned or not, because I (used to?) like the challenge of beating good Meta Knights. It's just that I haven't been able to beat good Meta Knights, even when they play predictably, because he seems to be the hardest character to punish in the game.
 

NinjaLink

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You're stupid.

I would stop there but I don't want to sound like there isn't a reason for calling you stupid.

Brawl is a game that has a limit for every character excluding mindgames and I guess you could call it strategy formed by individual players.

Melee had techskill. There were probably 10 characters that had an equal shot of winning depending on how you use them. Each with drawbacks and positives. The limit in that system was less for top play.

Metaknight breaks this rule. Metaknight is by far the best character, and even when characters like Diddy create a system of playing which almost requires little thought to put into playing him like what NinjaLink does, it doesn't mean Metaknight should be allowed. Metaknight has future to evolve in a game where characters have already reached this point.

People of the same skill level at high level play are dependant on which characters has what limits. Watch Azen's ike vs m2k's metaknight. It's pitiful to watch. Azen then picks metaknight and is pretty equal.

You shouldn't allow a character for the sole reason on "People are finding ways around him to beat him.....but he will constantly evolve". Seriously, that doesn't make sense. If you ban metaknight, each character then can be countered and the system becomes more legit. Stagepicks would mean more, and there will never be the option of losing with your main, then picking metaknight.

Sorry bro, but you main metaknight and have a bias in this arguement. If you want to gain respect from the whole community and not just other meta mains, use a character with limitations, then try to work with it, instead of picking someone with abuseable moves and requires no skill to perform.

And who are you to say that the tornado is ineffective against pro players? Your ****ing dumb for saying that in general

There is no other character which has a more safe recovery and b moves. Tell me it's because of the skill of the person, and you are ignorant of the limits of other characters. If thats true, then the pro should be able to space such a move as the tornado with another character and have the same effect. To berrate the shield, then to run away. I can't think of any other character like that.

For the rest of the people who went in on this decision.

Think about what your thinking of. You're saying that metaknight is able to be beaten. Congrats, DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. OBVIOUSLY everyone player can be beaten no matter what character he picks in this game. If you are just a bad meta player, you'll get beaten.

I thought the whole Idea of this topic was to think about what limits meta has (NONE), what bad matchups meta has (NONE), what POTENTIALLY he can do in the future (ANYTHING). I don't care how anyone else's metaknight does in tournaments, becuase there is such a huge difference in the skill levels of say M2K and Azen. They play this game to a point where they find why Metaknight can win everytime.

It's unfair for people to go up against people like m2k with anyone besides metaknight when versing his metaknight. If you ban metaknight, his best character would be dedede, someone that can easily be countered, and there in lies the equal advantage to everyone that plays this game. This game is broken with metaknight, and becomes a metagame after hes banned. So out of thos options...I pick...

MELEE

Metaknight players fail. Learn this game instead of learning how to 3 stock everycharacter.

Plairnk, you should money match people with someone besides metaknight against their metaknight with the same skill level as you. See how that goes for you
u sir are not smart
 

Mew2King

King of the Mews
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Tornado does not work vs good ppl unless they are large characters. You saying Plank it stupid for saying that just shows how ignorant you are. It only works vs heavyweight characters. You can easily DI up out of the beginning of it if you fall into it and take like 3 damage, many characters can footstool out, some can DI up and Dair, and it's very easy for almost every character to block it, angle your shield up, then release shield into punishment while the move ends.

I do the very same thing.

In fact, I FIGURED this out RIGHT AFTER THE GAME CAME OUT, when I beat Forte many sets in a row with DDD, a character that gets ***** by tornado. The fact that other good people can do this and it works for them just further proves my point.

Tornado is best used as a recovery move, a position changer, or random chip damage at high level play.
 

Crizthakidd

Smash Champion
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does top players using mk to win ever like reallly push their opinions so mk wont get banned
 

Ref

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Refpsi
Do low level players try to ban MK so that they don't have to learn the match up, and then think they can win when he is gone?

That question you asked, it doesn't really matter, even if they did... mainly because there are also people don't don't Use MK and don't want him banned.
 
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