The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

[Justblaze647]

no, i don't "know" it at all

just sounds to me like you're a whiner who has no legitimate arguments.

If you don't know why Brawl and Melee are not the same game... well, that sounds like more of a personal problem to me...

Oh! and calling me a whiner instantly makes you correct and makes me incorrect (plus it discredits me as well)

/sarcasm

 

[pockyD]

it's really frustrating arguing with people either with the mental capacity of a 6 year old or who actually are 6 years old

i don't have to use brawl vs melee. i could compare it against mario kart 64 or chinese checkers, and the arguments would be the same

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

If you don't know why Brawl and Melee are not the same game... well, that sounds like more of a personal problem to me...

Oh! and calling me a whiner instantly makes you correct and makes me incorrect (plus it discredits me as well)

/sarcasm

In other words, "It just is! Isn't it obvious? In fact it's SO obvious that I am unable to argue for it! I just assume it's true and that's good enough for me!"

 

[brinboy789]

If you don't know why Brawl and Melee are not the same game... well, that sounds like more of a personal problem to me...

Oh! and calling me a whiner instantly makes you correct and makes me incorrect (plus it discredits me as well)

/sarcasm

70-30 in brawl
70-30 in melee
care to explain the difference?
MELEE CAN COMBO.
idc, its still 70-30

stuff

hyuga....arent you that realllly good jiggs player from melee? i think i remember seeing one of your vids?

 

[NinjaLink]

I'm an Overachiever?! LMAO....thats new.

 

[Justblaze647]

In other words, "It just is! Isn't it obvious? In fact it's SO obvious that I am unable to argue for it! I just assume it's true and that's good enough for me!"

Actually its more like "this guy's asking me a stupid asss rhetorical question that he already knows the answer to and patronizing me, so instead of wasting my time writing a 1000 word long post, I'll just use sarcasm and better rhetoric to make him look like a *******..."

But you were pretty close, too.

 

[pockyD]

why yes he is this jiggly

i was asking the question to make a point. i don't actually care what your answer is, because what's relevant is that they are both competitive games featuring a variety of character choices; the "differences" that you're thinking of aren't relevant to this discussion. I could have asked about street fighter or mortal kombat instead, but since this is a smash board, melee is much more relatable

 

[Justblaze647]

70-30 in brawl
70-30 in melee
care to explain the difference?
MELEE CAN COMBO.
idc, its still 70-30

My answer is as simple as this...

Brawl physics =/= Melee physics...

Anymore questions?

 

[brinboy789]

Actually its more like "this guy's asking me a stupid asss rhetorical question that he already knows the answer to and patronizing me, so instead of wasting my time writing a 1000 word long post, I'll just use sarcasm and better rhetoric to make him look like a *******..."

But you were pretty close, too.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5941217&postcount=404

care to give me then a brief summary of why a 70-30 is different then melee and brawl? or a 70-30 is any difference in freakin chess and checkers?

edit:

My answer is as simple as this...

Brawl physics =/= Melee physics...

Anymore questions?

so? BECAUSE of those physics, its 70-30 for brawl. and BECAUSE of those physics, its 70-30 for melee.

edit2:

why yes he is this jiggly

danm, you and mango were like my idols for jiggs! jiggs in melee for life!

 

[pockyD]

hard to believe a person can be this dense, so you must be trolling

not a very entertaining one though

 

[Justblaze647]

so you resort back to calling me unintelligent because you tried to make me look stupid... and you failed...

 

[brinboy789]

so you resort back to calling me unintelligent because you tried to make me look stupid... and you failed...

care to explain the difference in 70-30 in any fighting game? dont say different physics, idc if its brawl or freakin SF series, its the same

 

[pockyD]

i didn't need to (or try to) make you look stupid; you looked stupid from before my first post

go ahead and keep avoiding the subject and making mocking comments though, it's really helping your case

 

[Justblaze647]

care to give me then a brief summary of why a 70-30 is different then melee and brawl? or a 70-30 is any difference in freakin chess and checkers?

I would, but I don't see how that's relevant to the argument at hand which is: MK does not have any counters. So unless you can show me a match-up in which MK is disadvantaged 70:30... then you can kiss my grits.

i didn't need to (or try to) make you look stupid; you looked stupid from before my first post

go ahead and keep avoiding the subject and making mocking comments though, it's really helping your case

Who's avoiding what now?

 

[brinboy789]

I would, but I don't see how that's relevant to the argument at hand which is: MK does not have any counters. So unless you can show me a match-up in which MK is disadvantaged 70:30... then you can kiss my grits.

good job at avoiding the subject. try to make it not THAT obvious though

MK has at least one counter, snake. it doesnt matter if its 55:45 or 99:1, its a counter. that breaks the pro-bans main arguement, he has no counters. and there are several chars that go practically even (yoshi, olimar, diddy, falco? and more).

stay on topic plz

 

[Sephiroth27]

55:45 does not constitute as a counter.

 

[Justblaze647]

Snake can be argued, and diddy is... meh. NL is just an over achiever


No. I'm not going to take my valuble time, and use it to further prove something we both kno to be the truth.

LOL. you said it yourself a few posts ago.

snake is 55/60 : 45:40

diddys starting to look like a MK counter, not sure of the matchup number.
inui made a post about his counters, im going to waste 5 minutes of my life searching it for you k?

couldnt find it. but inui made a HUGE post about MK counters, its in the MK ban or not discussion poll after podcast. try and find it if you want. i know there was falco, olimar, and like 2-3 other chars he mentioned, not counting snake and diddy. i think

Oh yeah! how could I have forgotten about counter picking characters...

Who are MK's counters again?

/sarcasm

you cant pick 8 chars against D3, its 100-0



QFT. or counterpick, your choice.

This is the topic

and I'm the dense one

 

[brinboy789]

This is the topic

and I'm the dense one

edit: skimmed through posts, realized that YOU were the one bringing up random topics when you couldnt respond. nice try.

55:45 is a soft counter. its not a big advantage, but its there. besides, several chars are arguably neutral/45:55 with MK. most of top/high tier is 55/6-:45/40 with MK.

and while we're out at, why dont we sum it up? tell me why brawl 70-30 =/= melee's 70-30, and snake is soft counter.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Ah, good to hear from the SBR. I've always been leaning ever-so-slightly towards the pro-ban side, but whether he's banned or not, I'm still happy.

 

[Sephiroth27]

Snake is not a soft counter to Metaknight, so either labeling 55:45 matchups as soft counters is wrong, or Metaknight goes 50:50 with Snake or better.

 

[brinboy789]

Snake is not a soft counter to Metaknight, so either labeling 55:45 matchups as soft counters is wrong, or Metaknight goes 50:50 with Snake or better.

well, its opinion if 55:45 is advantage or neutral. i'd say its pretty much neutral, but snake has a tiny upper hand.

 

[pockyD]

why does he need to have a counter?

 

[adumbrodeus]

care to explain the difference in 70-30 in any fighting game? dont say different physics, idc if its brawl or freakin SF series, its the same

Actually, 70-30 does mean more in certain fighting games, it unconsciously becomes relative to the overall difference between the characters because in a game where the characters are wildly unbalanced tiny differences are almost unnoticeable, whereas in games where it's very balanced, tiny differences are very noticable. Thus what is considered a 60-40 in the first case would often be considered more like a 70-30.

As an example, think about Soul Calibur, where regardless of character, victory is almost entirely dependent on ability to reliably guard impact. Since advantages are so easily counterable, an advantage in Soul Calibur is significantly different then an advantage in Smash.

edit: skimmed through posts, realized that YOU were the one bringing up random topics when you couldnt respond. nice try.

55:45 is a soft counter. its not a big advantage, but its there. besides, several chars are arguably neutral/45:55 with MK. most of top/high tier is 55/6-:45/40 with MK.

and while we're out at, why dont we sum it up? tell me why brawl 70-30 =/= melee's 70-30, and snake is soft counter.

Ummm, no.

Generally speaking 55-45 is labeled a NEUTRAL, though the Marth boards and a few others label it as a slight advantage.

Soft Counter is 60-40 or greater.

55-45 are the match-ups, at least in smash, where the difference is so slight that it's basically a toss-up, not a counter AT ALL.

Learn the vocab dude.

Regardless, that Snake even has the advantage is a position on very thin Ice. Even one of it's greatest advocates M2K recently said that it's a 50-50 or slight Snake advantage (granted, he thinks it's because of how much he advanced the MK metagame but still).

 

[JTB]

I don't understand how people come up with these matchup percentages. There's no formula that determines that ROB vs MK is 70-30 or w/e **** was made up.

Stop throwing up percentages like you know what you are talking about.

this wouldn't happen in melee

 

[brinboy789]

Actually, 70-30 does mean more in certain fighting games, it unconsciously becomes relative to the overall difference between the characters because in a game where the characters are wildly unbalanced tiny differences are almost unnoticeable, whereas in games where it's very balanced, tiny differences are very noticable. Thus what is considered a 60-40 in the first case would often be considered more like a 70-30.

As an example, think about Soul Calibur, where regardless of character, victory is almost entirely dependent on ability to reliably guard impact. Since advantages are so easily counterable, an advantage in Soul Calibur is significantly different then an advantage in Smash.



Ummm, no.

Generally speaking 55-45 is labeled a NEUTRAL, though the Marth boards and a few others label it as a slight advantage.

Soft Counter is 60-40 or greater.

55-45 are the match-ups, at least in smash, where the difference is so slight that it's basically a toss-up, not a counter AT ALL.

Learn the vocab dude.

Regardless, that Snake even has the advantage is a position on very thin Ice. Even one of it's greatest advocates M2K recently said that it's a 50-50 or slight Snake advantage (granted, he thinks it's because of how much he advanced the MK metagame but still).

ugh so much logic

well since yoshi was labeled NOT neutral by many members of the pro-ban (exp. MK has NO neutral or bad matchups! when yoshi was 45:55 to MK), so i assumed 55:45 would be an advantage, since 45:55 is a disadvantage.

i dont think 70-30 from brawl to melee would mean THAT much of a difference. maybe a bit, like melee can actually combo, but overall its not much of a difference

 

[Taeran]

Prepare for a wall of text!


In melee, marth's win percentage was: Metaknight's:


54.25% 35%


That alone proves something about MK's brokeness vs. melee Marth's overwhelming popularity and ovepoweredness. Falco also has a rather high % (melee), but so does Snake.

My first reason to verdict MK should not be banned.

To all the noobs out there, like me, don't pick characters for their ... uh... power *coughcoughgaynesscoughcough* but how you play as them. The number of MKs prove new brawlers are falling to the overpoweredness of certain characters like MK and Snake (I'm not one of the Snakes that are like that!). We're getting tired of all the MKs!


I've seen threads like "why are people such jerks to MK mains".
Here's why:

They win a lot (with MK). It's not like that's a bad thing, but when it attaches and grows like a parasite, the ego inflates.

When ROBs ask for MK mainers help on the matchup thread, they make witty remarks about like: uh,, LuLZZ Wae'll have and adventooge If we dan't tell.

Nearly wordfor word, but exagerated a little for effect.

YOU, MK MAINS, ARE THE SOURCE OF THE MK VS. EVERYBODY ELSE!

Now, : and

Edit: sorry,the posting program took away the Marth and MK chart-like thing .

 

[Overswarm]

Prepare for a wall of text!


In melee, marth's win percentage was: Metaknight's:


54.25% 35%


That alone proves something about MK's brokeness vs. melee Marth's overwhelming popularity and ovepoweredness. Falco also has a rather high % (melee), but so does Snake.

My first reason to verdict MK should not be banned.

To all the noobs out there, like me, don't pick characters for their ... uh... power *coughcoughgaynesscoughcough* but how you play as them. The number of MKs prove new brawlers are falling to the overpoweredness of certain characters like MK and Snake (I'm not one of the Snakes that are like that!). We're getting tired of all the MKs!


I've seen threads like "why are people such jerks to MK mains".
Here's why:

They win a lot (with MK). It's not like that's a bad thing, but when it attaches and grows like a parasite, the ego inflates.

When ROBs ask for MK mainers help on the matchup thread, they make witty remarks about like: uh,, LuLZZ Wae'll have and adventooge If we dan't tell.

Nearly wordfor word, but exagerated a little for effect.

YOU, MK MAINS, ARE THE SOURCE OF THE MK VS. EVERYBODY ELSE!

Now, : and

Edit: sorry,the posting program took away the Marth and MK chart-like thing .

That's great, except it isn't true.

Hey, let me compare two tournaments.

MLG NY vs. HOBO 11

Metaknight has a 100% dominance rate, while Marth does not! In fact he only got 2nd! BAN METAKNIGHT!

-_-;;

You aren't using a valid number of tournaments for your melee numbers. Ankoku didn't either, and I'm assuming you're piggybacking off his results. If you look at the largest Brawl tournaments in comparison to the MLGs that Ankoku used, MK is more dominant, winning every single one and taking multiple $ spots (more over time, too)

 

[da K.I.D.]

consistency is key.

 

[adumbrodeus]

ugh so much logic

well since yoshi was labeled NOT neutral by many members of the pro-ban (exp. MK has NO neutral or bad matchups! when yoshi was 45:55 to MK), so i assumed 55:45 would be an advantage, since 45:55 is a disadvantage.

i dont think 70-30 from brawl to melee would mean THAT much of a difference. maybe a bit, like melee can actually combo, but overall its not much of a difference

Well there is a difference.

Not so much in win ratio, but there's a different mean however.

You see in melee, everybody could 0-death everyone, just it was significantly easier for some characters then others (based on match-ups obviously). Ok 0-death was a hyperbole, but even Pichu could combo fox to high percents, and gimp him.

In Brawl, the matches are much more predictable because weaker characters in match-ups generally just don't have these kinds of options.



Oh yeah, and I do tend to cause logic overloads rather often, sorry.


As far as the anti-ban argument goes, it was generally a "lack of counters" or "no match-ups where he doesn't hold at least a slight advantage". Yoshi doesn't disprove either, but "advantage" is distinct from "counter".

 

[Turbo Ether]

Would love to see Overswarm and Inui MM.

*cough*

 

[Overswarm]

Would love to see Overswarm and Inui MM.

*cough*

I'd say "sure" and then have my friends pour liquid chicken fat and grease from my high school cafeteria all over him halfway through the first match. Then I'd suicide repeatedly and say "darn, you won" and give him the winnings in pennies.

 

[Asdioh]

I'd say "sure" and then have my friends pour liquid chicken fat and grease from my high school cafeteria all over him halfway through the first match. Then I'd suicide repeatedly and say "darn, you won" and give him the winnings in pennies.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I'd say "sure" and then have my friends pour liquid chicken fat and grease from my high school cafeteria all over him halfway through the first match. Then I'd suicide repeatedly and say "darn, you won" and give him the winnings in pennies.

Pretty hilarious. Lol.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

um wasn't hobo 11 MK banned?

 

[brinboy789]

um wasn't hobo 11 MK banned?

yes that was a test run. i think

 

[cutter]

yes that was a test run. i think

No... it was HOBO 12. -_-

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

11, 12 same difference

 

[Turbo Ether]

CPU MK just survived my Snake Upair at 160 on FD. In training mode.

are you being serious or just patronising OS?

I was being serious.

 

[brinboy789]

I was being serious.

pffffft yea ok. snake uair @ 160? maybe weak part of a reaaaaly decayed uair, and tahts a MAYBE.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i believe it, its coming from 2 sources that are not related...