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The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

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M3D

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Let me just start by saying that this has been no easy decision. I have been a moderator over the Back Room since 2004 and the issue of whether or not to ban Metaknight from tournament play has been the most heated discussion we have ever had in that room. So I want to stop anyone from suggesting that we didn't carefully consider this before we decided to post our collective opinion. This decision has been months in the making. We have reviewed tournament results, discussed the match-ups extensively, argued about the effect that stage lists have on Metaknight's effectiveness and even argued all the way down to the core idea of what we think tournament smash is all about. So yes, we've considered this carefully and explored it extensively.

I should also say that we were not unanimous in this decision. There are some players that are adamantly for the ban of Metaknight, some that are adamantly against it and some that have a relatively neutral stance. So we recognize that there is going to continue to be disagreements within the community about it. We fully expect that conversation will continue and new evidence will be brought up as the game continues to be explored.

After months of discussion and reviewing all the information we could gather, the SBR voted on whether or not to ban Metaknight. It was voted that Metaknight should not be banned by a ratio of 3-1 in the voting. A significant majority of the SBR believes that Metaknight should not be banned from tournament play.

However, a significant majority of SBR members also recognizes that Metaknight is currently the best character in the game in singles tournament play. We believe that the community should grow organically and we do not consider it wrong for individual tournament organizers to ban Metaknight if they feel it will draw in more players or improve the community in their area. However, they should recognize that the majority of tournaments around them or in other regions will probably continue to include Metaknight. It's up to the tournament organizer to decide if they should ban MK at their event and up to the players to decide what kind of tournaments they wish to attend.

Finally, I should point out that game evolve over time. We are already seeing Diddy rise up as a potential counter to Metaknight and certain other players winning tournaments consistently without MK in tow. It's possible that in time, Metaknight will no longer be considered so formidable. It is also possible that new tricks with Metaknight will arise that will make him even better than he already is, driving the community as a whole to ban him. It's a game played by millions of people all over the world. Any development is possible and the SBR will continue to monitor how the competitive smash scene develops.

Please feel free to discuss this decision here, but any flaming or inappropriate language will result in warnings. We understand its a heated discussion, but please keep it clean.
 

Red Arremer

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Whew. Finally we hear something from you guys.

So, Meta Knight should not be banned. Interesting. I can already see Overswarm breaking something. ^^"
Anyway, I still stand by my own opinion that a temporary ban would've been the best solution - just to see how the tournament scene develops without him.

I'm glad on the other hand, though, that the discussions are over for now.
 

HeroMystic

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But... Overswarm promised cake.... :(

Ah, it didn't really matter much to me. Metaknight will always be the best character, but the strengths of the other characters can overcome him. That's what I believe anyway.

Good job on making a well analyzed decision.
 

PukeTShirt

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3 to 1 eh? that seems to be pretty drastic. Can I ask what was the argument that swayed most opinions? Was it the idea that we should give things more time? Or just not enough proof that metaknight actually BREAKS the game? i wonder...
 

Dr Drew the Dragon

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It wasn't 3 to 1...

it was 2.333333333~ to 1, not that it matters a huge deal.

Other than that good summary.
 

BentoBox

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MK Cake was a lie.

Hopefully, the boards won't die out as this issue has been driving the t.d. section for the past few months~
 

DRaGZ

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Thank you for finally make a stance on this.

I mean, I'm all for the ban, but I'm glad we finally have an official consensus on this shiet. Good stuff.
 

The Real Inferno

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Nice that the SBR finally got around to giving one mass opinion. I think it's become abundantly clear that areas that aren't massively active and are dominated by a few MK players constricting their competitive scene will see the most increase in activity if their TOs ban Meta Knight. Areas with an active, healthy scene with a variety of dominant players would have absolutely no reason to anyway. I don't see any reason for the SBR to not go with this decision at this point in time.
 

Turbo Ether

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Lol, now people can go back to just playing the game, like they should have in the first place. Spend less time complaining, and more time improving.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Lol, now people can go back to just playing the game, like they should have in the first place. Spend less time complaining, and more time improving.
QFT. This is the best summary I ever heard about this crisis and it's complete absurdity

Not banning him was the right desicion
 

Ulevo

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Lol, now people can go back to just playing the game, like they should have in the first place. Spend less time complaining, and more time improving.
I concur. Overtime, players will learn to adapt appropriately, and Meta Knight will no longer be as seemingly threatening as he is today. That is what I conclude for now anyway.
 

frdagaa

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I'm glad that the SBR's finally come out with a statement. As to whether or not it'll hold up to the test of time - well, we'll just have to see.
 

The Slayer

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Alright, that's nice to hear. However, if Meta-Knight delivers something that's breaking the game then I won't complain about his possible ban in the future. Still, it's nice to see that a reasonable agreement has been placed out for Meta-Knight's position.
 

Espy Rose

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Well, this is dissapointing...kinda.

Oh well, guess it's back to playing with the infestation of MKs down here.
How fun.
 

Tristan_win

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Well....I guess I'll pick up meta knight then since after reading all those counter argument post he seems pretty **** broken and even though using his feels unnatural to me if what I've read true the then even so he will make a great counter on just about everyone.
 

Sybawave

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Or we could all go back to playing SSBM and not worry about MK

Lol I was hoping he would be banned because then I'd actually start playing more but o well guys thanks
 

Ravin

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Or we could all go back to playing SSBM and not worry about MK

Lol I was hoping he would be banned because then I'd actually start playing more but o well guys thanks
QFT.

I dont think they understand when you have a bracket of 3/4 mk, Followed up with a 1/2 a 1/4th of of snakes, followed by a D3 or so forth.

I just hate going to tounrys to see a bracket going MK MK MK MK MK MK MK SNAKE MK SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE MK MK MK MK >Insert Your BS here< MK MK MK.

And people wonder why brawl is having a fallout? I dont even watch finals in tounrys anymore because its MK vs MK.. and it gets old... FAST.
 

Jam Stunna

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QFT.

I dont think they understand when you have a bracket of 3/4 mk, Followed up with a 1/2 a 1/4th of of snakes, followed by a D3 or so forth.

I just hate going to tounrys to see a bracket going MK MK MK MK MK MK MK SNAKE MK SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE MK MK MK MK >Insert Your BS here< MK MK MK.

And people wonder why brawl is having a fallout? I dont even watch finals in tounrys anymore because its MK vs MK.. and it gets old... FAST.
As opposed to Melee where you face 1,000 Marths and Foxes? I hate Brawl, but Melee was certainly no better in regards to character selection variety at tournaments.

I guess I'm glad that he wasn't banned. Now let's see if the Brawl community will man up, but I doubt it.
 

indianunit

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Something tells me this debate is not over yet but at least we now know what SBR thinks of the situation. I was neutral, leaning toward not banning him.
 

Ravin

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As opposed to Melee where you face 1,000 Marths and Foxes? I hate Brawl, but Melee was certainly no better in regards to character selection variety at tournaments.

I guess I'm glad that he wasn't banned. Now let's see if the Brawl community will man up, but I doubt it.
I saw more Falcos then anything.

then again, I mained Mewtwo and managed fine.

Its like a little light that flickers.

And it goes back out a little bit each time MK wins a tourny.

At least in Melee you had a chance and a choice.
 

Asdioh

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However, a significant majority of SBR members also recognizes that Metaknight is currently the best character in the game in singles tournament play.
I can already see Overswarm breaking something. ^^"
Anyway, I still stand by my own opinion that a temporary ban would've been the best solution - just to see how the tournament scene develops without him.
It's funny because Overswarm is right, if you really want to win tournaments, just pick up Meta Knight as your one and only character, and screw all the others. This is why we're seeing more and more Meta Knights, and now that the final verdict has been passed against a ban, I have no doubt that we'll be seeing even more.

A temporary ban would have been fun (imo) and interesting, but it wouldn't really solve anything.

Lol, now people can go back to just playing the game, like they should have in the first place. Spend less time complaining, and more time improving.
I concur. Overtime, players will learn to adapt appropriately, and Meta Knight will no longer be as seemingly threatening as he is today. That is what I conclude for now anyway.
I, and countless other players, have spent time improving, and trying to figure out ways to beat a Meta Knight that is around our own skill level. The problem is, it's just not possible without the Meta Knight making a lot of mistakes. He is simply better.

It's just kind of sad that most people have a ton of experience against Meta Knight, and no matter how predictable their opponent is, it's still incredibly hard to beat him.
I can't say the same for any other character (except maybe Snake, but at least Snake has real "counters")

Still, there's nothing I can do about it, and since some people are sooo adamant about MK being beatable and that he doesn't break the game, I will do my best to work on it. I will convince everyone that Kirby is a Meta Knight counter, if I can.

lol
 

DraKmoN001

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It's funny because Overswarm is right, if you really want to win tournaments, just pick up Meta Knight as your one and only character, and screw all the others. This is why we're seeing more and more Meta Knights, and now that the final verdict has been passed against a ban, I have no doubt that we'll be seeing even more.
iirc Overswarm dropped ROB, stopped going to tournies for awhile, played in some tournies afterwards with MK and didn't do as well as he originally did with ROB. In fact here is the original post stating so:
Overswarm mained ROB, went to several tournaments and won. Then he said he was going to main MK, stopped going to tournaments, and went to a few recently and lost as MK to non-MK players and did worse than he did in his earlier tournaments as ROB.

If anything, switching to MK to prove that he's broken and subsequently failing only strengthens the anti-ban argument.
But I'd rather hear directly from Overswarm if possible, since he should be most aware of his SSBB performance.
Expect more.
So how are you doing with MK now? Do you sincerely believe that you are doing far better with MK than with ROB with less time invested? If so what is your current record thus far with MK?
 

AlphaZealot

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It's funny because Overswarm is right, if you really want to win tournaments, just pick up Meta Knight as your one and only character, and screw all the others. This is why we're seeing more and more Meta Knights, and now that the final verdict has been passed against a ban, I have no doubt that we'll be seeing even more.
I actually think the reverse will occur. In areas where there are 1-3 dominant MK's less MK's will arise because they have zero chance of ever winning the dittos against the more experienced (possibly more talented) MK's that currently dominate the scene/specific area. With this in mind, switch to other characters, possibly even low tier characters where inexperience can catch someone off guard, seems like the most ideal solution. Why would you switch to MK just to be months and months behind in the MK-MK match up that you would likely need to be able to win? Meanwhile, we've seen Chu have success with Kirby (after not finding success with top tiers), Lethein/NL with Diddy, RoyR with Marth, Azen's Lucario is ever present, Anther's Pikachu, Futiles Wario, etc etc.
 

Overswarm

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I actually think the reverse will occur. In areas where there are 1-3 dominant MK's less MK's will arise because they have zero chance of ever winning the dittos against the more experienced (possibly more talented) MK's that currently dominate the scene/specific area. With this in mind, switch to other characters, possibly even low tier characters where inexperience can catch someone off guard, seems like the most ideal solution. Why would you switch to MK just to be months and months behind in the MK-MK match up that you would likely need to be able to win? Meanwhile, we've seen Chu have success with Kirby (after not finding success with top tiers), Lethein/NL with Diddy, RoyR with Marth, Azen's Lucario is ever present, Anther's Pikachu, Futiles Wario, etc etc.
You pick MK because he beats everyone. You pick characters like Diddy and you get beat by random 14 year old Metaknights and don't even get to the finals.

:D :D :D :D :D

*pokes fun*

But seriously, picking another character means those Metaknight players are still a threat... but now you have other threats. The only people that pick other characters pick so for reasons OTHER than winning... it just happens that some people are able to do so.


As for my tournament experience?

I started off with ROB and won virtually everything I went to. I saw Metaknight dominance increasing across the country and thought "ROB can be the counter to Metaknight". After about 2 months of intense study with the best ROBs in the country and constant practice, we realize that Metaknight owns ROB. 70:30 at minimum.

I drop ROB and pick up MK.

I hate MK. I hate Brawl playing MK. I hate Brawl playing against MK.

I stop playing.

I continue to go to tournaments with Joshu because we have points together.

We win every doubles event from there on out with little to no resistance.

I get 5th at my first tournament with Metaknight, losing to the people that got first and second.

I get 9th (I think it was 9th, might have been 7th... pretty sure it was 9th) at my next tournament, losing to an ICs and a Snake, both matchups I wasn't familiar with.... and the games were still close.

With ROB, I practiced, studied, and trained religiously to do well.

With Metaknight, I get a call from a friend that says "what time are you coming up here?" and then I remember there's a tournament on the weekend, so I go there and win doubles and still am a threat in singles.

Main metaknight. There's no reason not to.
 

Plairnkk

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So Overswarm you won basically everything with ROB to start out, and now you use MK and have not placed better than 5th. You are right, ban MK.
 

KishPrime

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Also you fail to note that your partner still places 3rd/4th at every event, so it's not like you're carrying the team.
 

ROOOOY!

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It was voted that Metaknight should not be banned by a ratio of 3-1 in the voting. A significant majority of the SBR believes that Metaknight should not be banned from tournament play because 3 quarters of the SBR main MK.
:p

Yeah, I know there are MK mainers in there that want MK banned haha.
The result comes as no suprise to me however.
This is like the sole thing in the two years I've been here that I agree with the SBR on xD
 
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