The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Arturito_Burrito]

show me it then. if there was one then i missed it because of all the constant replies

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057&page=163

Here you go moron. I'm not insulting you on your arguments btw I'm calling you a moron because you can't hit 163.


Its the very 1st post. also lol at you ignoring the other post that refutes your argument.

 

[da K.I.D.]

hes not going to believe that any other MKs win because M2K and Dojo are the only ones he knows of, therefore, if you bring up anybody elses name, since he hasnt heard of them, he will auto assume that they only win bs scrub tourneys

 

[Mmac]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057&page=163

Here you go moron. I'm not insulting you on your arguments btw I'm calling you a moron because you can't hit 163.


Its the very 1st post. also lol at you ignoring the other post that refutes your argument.

You know.... not everyone does "10 Post per Page".....

 

[brinboy789]

Lol you just realized that the one you stated winning tournies is the one you're BSing in the quote? LOOOOL owned.

no...i think you misinterpreted it

M2K is an amazing player. If you're talking about big tournaments where he is present, then he'll most likely come up top 10, if not, top 4.

Why discard local tourneys? Heh, there'd be alot more MK wins and such if you took in local tourneys, because don't they factor into tournament rankings as well?

because if we put local tourneys in too, then what about the other chars? what about theyre wins? we arent just watching MK...

and guys, i will be back in 20-40 minutes. if ANY of you can answer
1. the games metagame is NOT even close to being fully developed. a melee AT was discovered like a month ago. melees been out for...8 years? probably more. and yet still AT's are still to be discovered. and brawls physic engines are WAY different the melee, so no AT's were transferred. sure theres a larger community, but its 8 years >>>>>>>>>>>> half a year
2. If wario's CG works, then MK WILL have a bad matchup. NOBODY can argue that an one-mistake = 112% advantage can be good. and even if it doesnt work. most of his matchups at 60:40. thats very winnable.
4. ahh, tourneys. MK dominates them. name one smasher that isnt M2K or Dojo that uses MK that consistently wins tourneys. if you cant, that means M2K and Dojo win the majority of MK wins, sprinkled with a minority of other MK players.

these. i will look for replies with this. i will skive over any gay or useless *** replies.

 

[TeeVee]

Where's yuna, I miss his counter arguments made up of hypothetical situations ; brinboy's nonsense points are getting boring and have been refuted for the past 6 pages...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

hes not going to believe that any other MKs win because M2K and Dojo are the only ones he knows of, therefore, if you bring up anybody elses name, since he hasnt heard of them, he will auto assume that they only win bs scrub tourneys

Even though at hobo a big tournament like 7 MKs placed higher than dojo.

 

[Overswarm]

are you serious brinboy? I just skimmed the last few pages and saw #4 clearly decimated on a repeated basis. You're not even reading.

Ignore this clown.

 

[Delta_BP26]

Where's Yuna? Also, owned by Overswarm.

I'll be back tomorrow. I don't even want to hear brinboy's NAME anymore.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

You know.... not everyone does "10 Post per Page".....

Are you talking about posting 10 posts per page? I do feel like I'm spamming but this thread moves fast.

If your talking about reading well I at least read the 1st post of every page.

edit: we need yuna to call OS a scrub again.

 

[brinboy789]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057&page=163

Here you go moron. I'm not insulting you on your arguments btw I'm calling you a moron because you can't hit 163.


Its the very 1st post. also lol at you ignoring the other post that refutes your argument.

when i clicked reply the thing wasnt in there so i could do it

due to the amount of ignorance, im going to sum up ALL if my arguements in one psot. if you can refute all my points, and i cannot say anything, then i lose

1. the games metagame is NOT even close to being fully developed. a melee AT was discovered like a month ago. melees been out for...8 years? probably more. and yet still AT's are still to be discovered. and brawls physic engines are WAY different the melee, so no AT's were transferred. sure theres a larger community, but its 8 years >>>>>>>>>>>> half a year
So your telling us to wait 8 years and then ban MK? but wait in 8 years melee will have 16 so we better wait 16 but wait in 16 years melee will have 24 we better wait 24 32 40 48 56? how about just wait 8000 years I'm sure we will have figured out brawl completely by then.

What happens if nothing new comes out in 8 years? What if we have completed the metagame huh? We're just going to keep on holding onto the hope of some AT that MK can't use to beat him?

If we where to find said AT then he would become unbroken and we should unban him then not the other way around.idk. did we expect wavedashing to happen in melee? who knows what kinds of AT's will be discovered?
2. If wario's CG works, then MK WILL have a bad matchup. NOBODY can argue that an one-mistake = 112% advantage can be good. and even if it doesnt work. most of his matchups at 60:40. thats very winnable.
Seriously stupid go back and read its been said that it only works to 32% warrio can string that easily CG doesn't change anythingseriously use your brain this was before that guy posted that it might only work up to 32
3. somebody said something about no poor stages for MK. MK is a MELEE fighter. melee fighters generally dont have advantages/disadvantages on stages. MK's best stage is rainbow cruise because it focuses on aerial game, which is MK's bread on butter.
This is your reason for not banning MK?point 3 is dead
4. ahh, tourneys. MK dominates them. name one smasher that isnt M2K or Dojo that uses MK that consistently wins tourneys. if you cant, that means M2K and Dojo win the majority of MK wins, sprinkled with a minority of other MK players.nothing for 4rth?

coming back in around 30 mind. gimme some REASONABLE arguements. i will not respond to MK IS TOO CHEAP

 

[TeeVee]

hes not going to believe that any other MKs win because M2K and Dojo are the only ones he knows of, therefore, if you bring up anybody elses name, since he hasnt heard of them, he will auto assume that they only win bs scrub tourneys

This, and I don't even think Dojo has won a big tourny ; Brinboy just saw his videos and assumes he's the best Mk who places the highest (no disrespect)

 

[da K.I.D.]

are you serious brinboy? I just skimmed the last few pages and saw #4 clearly decimated on a repeated basis. You're not even reading.

Ignore this clown.

oh thank god, OS is back, i think youcan handle it from here, i cant handle this anymore, this kid has exceeded my capacity for ignorance for the next two weeks

@ TV
the first time i heard about dojo, was like 2 weeks ago, he won an entire tourney playin MK and only lost one stock throughout the entire tourney

 

[Espy Rose]

no...i think you misinterpreted it

Chronicle'd for great justice.

Yuna would get a kick out of this...

...right in the balls from the stupidity.

 

[Tenki]

*joins meta-kirby in what must be a complex blending of emotions ranging from outright horror to laughter to dissapointment*

i sigged it 4 the lulz

 

[TeeVee]

Vidjo wins tourneys
Infernomni wins tourneys
Plank wins tourneys
Forte wins tourneys
DSF wins tourneys
Overswarm wins tourneys
and hylian started playing MK in tourneys a little while ago, just another one on the list that is switching to MK
Stilts wins tourneys
Lee wins tourneys
Dojo won ONE tourney

and they ALLLLLL play metaknight... stop saying theres only two people

Here is for point 4, all these metaknights WIN tournieS***

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

when i clicked reply the thing wasnt in there so i could do it

due to the amount of ignorance, im going to sum up ALL if my arguements in one psot. if you can refute all my points, and i cannot say anything, then i lose

1. the games metagame is NOT even close to being fully developed. a melee AT was discovered like a month ago. melees been out for...8 years? probably more. and yet still AT's are still to be discovered. and brawls physic engines are WAY different the melee, so no AT's were transferred. sure theres a larger community, but its 8 years >>>>>>>>>>>> half a year
So your telling us to wait 8 years and then ban MK? but wait in 8 years melee will have 16 so we better wait 16 but wait in 16 years melee will have 24 we better wait 24 32 40 48 56? how about just wait 8000 years I'm sure we will have figured out brawl completely by then.

What happens if nothing new comes out in 8 years? What if we have completed the metagame huh? We're just going to keep on holding onto the hope of some AT that MK can't use to beat him?

If we where to find said AT then he would become unbroken and we should unban him then not the other way around.idk. did we expect wavedashing to happen in melee? who knows what kinds of AT's will be discovered?
2. If wario's CG works, then MK WILL have a bad matchup. NOBODY can argue that an one-mistake = 112% advantage can be good. and even if it doesnt work. most of his matchups at 60:40. thats very winnable.
Seriously stupid go back and read its been said that it only works to 32% warrio can string that easily CG doesn't change anythingseriously use your brain this was before that guy posted that it might only work up to 32
3. somebody said something about no poor stages for MK. MK is a MELEE fighter. melee fighters generally dont have advantages/disadvantages on stages. MK's best stage is rainbow cruise because it focuses on aerial game, which is MK's bread on butter.
This is your reason for not banning MK?point 3 is dead
4. ahh, tourneys. MK dominates them. name one smasher that isnt M2K or Dojo that uses MK that consistently wins tourneys. if you cant, that means M2K and Dojo win the majority of MK wins, sprinkled with a minority of other MK players.nothing for 4rth?

coming back in around 30 mind. gimme some REASONABLE arguements. i will not respond to MK IS TOO CHEAP

So because you can answer IDK you will never give up?

You have posted this countless times in the past 4 pages. It was not before the guy said it was only to 32% it was after even the 1st time you posted it.

no one is saying MK is cheap and your tournament argument should just be throw away you refuse to believe the names given to you, IN OTHER WORDS YOU ARE THROWING OUT FACTS

 

[Koga]

Where's yuna, I miss his counter arguments made up of hypothetical situations ; brinboy's nonsense points are getting boring and have been refuted for the past 6 pages...

I'm sure Yuna's staying the F**ck away from a thread full of misguided values toward ban worthiness

 

[da K.I.D.]

and please guys i need someone to do me a huge favor,

can somebody when that ignorant mofo leaves, just make a post in the biggest font possible that says brinboy is gone

that will be my cue that theres intelligent people to debate with in this thread again

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

and please guys i need someone to do me a huge favor,

can somebody when that ignorant mofo leaves, just make a post in the biggest font possible that says brinboy is gone

that will be my cue that theres intelligent people to debate with in this thread again

We still have koga and yuna might come back though. There is no intelligent discussion against banning MK except its too soon in 42 years there might be an AT that MK can't use.

 

[salaboB]

If we where to find said AT then he would become unbroken and we should unban him then not the other way around.idk. did we expect wavedashing to happen in melee? who knows what kinds of AT's will be discovered?

So make up an AT. Give me an example of a hypothetical (So yes, we'll all know it can't currently be done and is just an imagined thing) general AT that every character can do that won't benefit MK at least as much as it benefits anyone else. Just an example, though if you could try to keep it realistic based on what we understand of the engine that'd be great (ie, I don't believe "no warmup into smash attacks" is realistic in the least so a really broken AT like that can't be expected).

If you can't even think of a possibility, how are you maintaining that more time can find something?

 

[Mmac]

Are you talking about posting 10 posts per page? I do feel like I'm spamming but this thread moves fast.

If your talking about reading well I at least read the 1st post of every page.

edit: we need yuna to call OS a scrub again.

No, I mean on Forum Settings. You can set any value of Post viewed per page between 10 and 50.

I have it on 50. Which means that I'm currently on Page 85... So I can't view that because Page 169 doesn't exist for me

 

[BentoBox]

wow brin, gtfo already.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

No, I mean on Forum Settings. You can set any value of Post viewed per page between 10 and 50.

I have it on 50. Which means that I'm currently on Page 85... So I can't view that because Page 169 doesn't exist for me

O **** I forgot about that lol. Well I'm gana go do it so I don't have to keep switching out but I really doubt he has it since he didn't say anything about it right away like you did.

 

[da K.I.D.]

this kind of blatent ignorance, has to somehow be against the rules right?

There has to be something i can report him for right?

cus yall cant seriously be telling me that theres no way to curb his ignorance but at the same time, I cant even respectfully ask which smash game is the best without taking infraction posts...

somewhere, an angel weeps...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

this kind of blatent ignorance, has to somehow be against the rules right?

There has to be something i can report him for right?

cus yall cant seriously be telling me that theres no way to curb his ignorance but at the same time, I cant even respectfully ask which smash game is the best without taking infraction posts...

somewhere, an angel weeps...

*hugs da K.I.D. for comfort*

don't worry kid... your perserverence through tribulation and extreme stupidity will be rewarded in smash heaven.
oh, and, FYI, the latter is banned because it inspires conversation MORE ignorant than brinboy is spewing... shocking I know

 

[JustNoOne]

This thread is like anime to me, I read it and watch it over time and I enjoy it cause of the amount of funny stuff here.

So... Yuna, can you come back? I miss your posts. They're very interesting and now since your gone... I miss you :*(

 

[Koga]

We still have koga and yuna might come back though. There is no intelligent discussion against banning MK except its too soon in 42 years there might be an AT that MK can't use.

well my main argument is that all the things you guys claim are ban worthy (matchups, tourney dominance) i don't think are close to ban worthy. its just a Value difference that's all, i'm just trying to plead my values as the correct ones as are you trying to plead yours. its just frustrating sometimes. I really think Marth is the answer, i'm just not executing my plan good enough yet.

i think i'll break down some film of MK and show where he shouldn't be owning, but his opponent isn't capitalizing, will that work?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

well my main argument is that all the things you guys claim are ban worthy (matchups, tourney dominance) i don't think are close to ban worthy. its just a Value difference that's all, i'm just trying to plead my values as the correct ones as are you trying to plead yours. its just frustrating sometimes. I really think Marth is the answer, i'm just not executing my plan good enough yet.

i think i'll break down some film of MK and show where he shouldn't be owning, but his opponent isn't capitalizing, will that work?

esentially you are saying MK would have to be able to produce a golden hammer upon command to be CONSIDERED for a ban.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

i think i'll break down some film of MK and show where he shouldn't be owning, but his opponent isn't capitalizing, will that work?

Sounds better than what everyone else has been saying.

"Just wait a few years an AT will come up in 2030 it has been prophesied Believe us guys in 20 years MK won be broken."

 

[salaboB]

well my main argument is that all the things you guys claim are ban worthy (matchups, tourney dominance) i don't think are close to ban worthy. its just a Value difference that's all, i'm just trying to plead my values as the correct ones as are you trying to plead yours. its just frustrating sometimes. I really think Marth is the answer, i'm just not executing my plan good enough yet.

The problem is the Marth boards disagree with you -- Marth doesn't have any inherent advantage against MK, and is actually at a disadvantage. So unless you know some secret that they don't, simply being good at timing will only be enough if you're an outright better player than your opponent.

 

[Mortimer]

well my main argument is that all the things you guys claim are ban worthy (matchups, tourney dominance) i don't think are close to ban worthy. its just a Value difference that's all, i'm just trying to plead my values as the correct ones as are you trying to plead yours. its just frustrating sometimes. I really think Marth is the answer, i'm just not executing my plan good enough yet.

i think i'll break down some film of MK and show where he shouldn't be owning, but his opponent isn't capitalizing, will that work?

Take a high ranked match (a top tourney result, for instance), and also show where the MK should own but failed to capitalize. Be honest, don't ignore mistakes by the MK.

If you show that the opponent made more mistakes than MK, then you might be on to something.

 

[IxxI]

mayb if wii ad smashballz. we can tke out teh metaknight. =]

 

[Rho]

I came into this topic with skepticism for the people who wanted to ban MK, but now the arguments of anyone defending Meta Knight just seem so flawed. This topic, even though I came into the game maining Meta, has completely switched me over to the opposite side of the argument. Honestly, I don't believe that the people trying to defend MK can keep up with this for much longer, they just don't have enough evidence. BTW, as soon as Brinboy realizes that he can't win, he'll probably leave rather than admit it.

 

[Tenki]

Cruel Angel Thesis 1 and 2?

no...i think you misinterpreted it



[a]because if we put local tourneys in too, then what about the other chars? what about theyre wins? we arent just watching MK...

and guys, i will be back in 20-40 minutes. if ANY of you can answer
1. the games metagame is NOT even close to being fully developed. a melee AT was discovered like a month ago. melees been out for...8 years? probably more. and yet still AT's are still to be discovered. and brawls physic engines are WAY different the melee, so no AT's were transferred. sure theres a larger community, but its 8 years >>>>>>>>>>>> half a year
2. If wario's CG works, then MK WILL have a bad matchup. NOBODY can argue that an one-mistake = 112% advantage can be good. and even if it doesnt work. most of his matchups at 60:40. thats very winnable.
4. ahh, tourneys. MK dominates them. name one smasher that isnt M2K or Dojo that uses MK that consistently wins tourneys. if you cant, that means M2K and Dojo win the majority of MK wins, sprinkled with a minority of other MK players.

these. i will look for replies with this. i will skive over any gay or useless *** replies.

[a] MK would still have more significant wins. The character rankings list takes into account prizes and number of people.

I'll bring up my old response with a few edits:

1. I'm still waiting for the link to this Melee AT that got discovered after 8 years. Depending on the nature of it, it may gain... or lose weight in your argument. Was it related to the directional airdodge? Was it related to Melee's system of hitting shield and reducing landing lag? Melee's system allowed for a little more variability in gameplay outside of the 5 aerials [and their set landing lag], 'simple' double jump trajectories, and dashes/movement. Brawl's physics are, in a sense, more limited than they were in Melee, which is why people are struggling to find gamebreaking techniques.

EDIT: I cbf'd to wait for you.
I searched up "found" in the Melee Discussion for threads made within the past Month.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195828

"Boost Grabbing". It seems like a Brawl technique was applied to Melee.

But you know what's funnier?

If that's the AT you're talking about, then I guess you can say an AT was transferred from Melee to Brawl, because technically speaking, this existed in Melee.

2. I'll hold off on this until there's more confirmation. But to keep you busy until then, ponder on why Falcon's infinite on Wario doesn't change his matchup disadvantage into a sudden neutral (not even pushing for advantage here). I mean really, Falcon just needs one grab and it can cause x damage AND a kill move on Metaknight. It sounds like the Wario-Metaknight chaingrab is much more limited because you have to be frame-perfect to even grab, let alone land a kill move. Falcon's Grab-Release infinite on Wario is better than Wario's chaingrab on Metaknight. >_>

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Da kid brinboy is gone for about another 10 min n
I just notice he said he would be back in 30 mi

we where supposed to refute his IDK argument before he came back though.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Da kid brinboy is gone for about another 10 min n
I just notice he said he would be back in 30 mi

we where supposed to refute his IDK argument before he came back though.

but we did that befoire he left.

and we did it no less than 5 times. from multiple different people.... from multiple angles.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Wow Falcon has a grab infinite on Wario? Sweet!

i got little time to post... so general thoughts. At first when i saw this thread's title a few times since its so popular, i thought... ban MK? No way. Banning a character is just wrong/unfair. But, with the reasons i've read, I guess it could be fair. At first, I was against banning him, my reason being this: after MK, snake will be banned. then DDD. then so on until only Falcon is left, or they make tournies which are for individual tiers (like top tier tournies, high tier tournies, low, bot, mid... etc.). But, now that I realize that most of MK's matches give him an advantage or are about neutral, and how i realized that everyone would pick up MK... (thx for bringing this point up SP) then yes may be MK should be banned... But still i reject this. It's still unfair. UNLESS, if for example, there will be more... lets say, top tier tournies, and low tier tournies... that way MK would only be banned in ALL TIER Tournies. It makes sense... ppl say MK should be banned mainly cus he has very good matchups. Well, Ok, so he should be banned for general tournies. But, he should be allowed for individual tier tournies, like TOp tier tournies or High tier tournies, since there's a more limited margin of chars... that way, his good match ups aren't as important.

sry if this post is confusing... but i have to go sleep now . lol. BAN TORNADO!!! jk

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

What have we learned in this thread? Has there been any learning involved?

 

[cutter]

What have we learned in this thread? Has there been any learning involved?

Seems like we're back to square one.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

What have we learned in this thread? Has there been any learning involved?

I came into this topic with skepticism for the people who wanted to ban MK, but now the arguments of anyone defending Meta Knight just seem so flawed. This topic, even though I came into the game maining Meta, has completely switched me over to the opposite side of the argument. Honestly, I don't believe that the people trying to defend MK can keep up with this for much longer, they just don't have enough evidence. BTW, as soon as Brinboy realizes that he can't win, he'll probably leave rather than admit it.

apparently there has been