The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[da K.I.D.]

so what, is that 4 or 5 ppl that have refuted all of your points WITH COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS NO LESS

i think you lose now

 

[Koga]

God you moron go look at tournament results dojo got 9th at hobo 11 your talking about him like he is 1 of 2 while there are a lot more.

1: M2K (meta)
2: Azen (lucario/meta)
3: Lee (meta)
4: DMG (wario
5: DSF (snake/meta)
5: Roy_R (marth)
7: Edrees (peach)
7: Hylian (GW/meta?)
9: Chuck (meta/pkmn)
9: Ky (pit)
9: Dojo (meta)
9: Magik (meta/pkmn)

ahh that sucks, in melee we had so much more variety! See:

m2k (marth/fox)
Pc Chris (falco/fox)
KDJ (Sheik/fox)
Ken (marth/fox)

oh wait......


in melee there was a meme "FD no items Fox only" and fox never got banned. Deal with it

 

[brinboy789]

This point is wrong. Why? because one of MK's biggest strengths is that he has NO punishable weakness. Absolutely nothing to exploit. his ONLY downsides are his lack of a projectile and his light weight. but they aren't exploitable weaknesses because he covers them up with his advantages. and there is no way around those advantages. he has speed, priority, range and a SICKENING lack of lag. hell he's essentially immune to ALL OoS options, something no other charcter can claim. Quite simply, no AT could conceivably counteract this. no form of movement, nothing. you can't , you just can't exploit his weaknesses. this has nothing to do with the games metagame development. for the record his priority is crap. unless your talking about his b moves, which priority greatly varies. and what about KO power? he kills by gimping. his kills moves are :
fsmash = gay. SOOOO slow
dsmash= crazy fast but not that strong
shuttle loop = strong, but risky to use and punish
gimping = most effective way of killing. which is pretty difficult

Also, Brawl's metagame is progressing at a rate ASTONISHINGLY faster than melee INCLUDING the discovery of ATs. it's been long enough for a GLIMMER of hope to appear.its developing fast. ok. melee been out for at LEAST 8 years, probably longer. so unless we are going at around 16x speed of metagame development. that arguement is BS

a) logic fail. ZSS can chain throw... or maybe it was an infinite against wario... I can't recall... but he's still a bad matchup for her. the throwing consideration is almost nothing because it's so hard to apply.... and the wario thing is wrong anyway so

right.... melee figthers don't have any bad stages.... right... do I even have to respond to this one with a specific example? if so please wait until I can find ALL the melee fighters with truly AWFUL stages so I can completely ream this. regardless. it's SOOOOOO far from being true it's not funny.you explain all this and dont give me an example. i cannot think of a melee fighter that has a disadvantage on a neutral stage. ONE
oh... so we don't expect the best MK's to win now?i never asked that. i asked for the name or gamertag of ONE smasher that consistently wins tourneys and isnt M2K or Dojo

okay... I think I win now. does that mean you become a good little August 2008 n00b and listen to others with more reasonable arguments?lol what is this racism against 08ers? i played smash competitively for 3 years. i just never bothered to join smashboards until now.

replies in red

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

ahh that sucks, in melee we had so much more variety! See:

m2k (marth/fox)
Pc Chris (falco/fox)
KDJ (Sheik/fox)
Ken (marth/fox)

oh wait......


in melee there was a meme "FD no items Fox only" and fox never got banned. Deal with it

Didn't you say your self that in 7 years there where 8 tournament valid characters? Stop changing your mind.

 

[brinboy789]

sorry for double post

you ALL are giving me BS arguements that ive already answered. plz give me somethign that nobody has mentioned?

 

[unwelc0med]

i propose that everyone who beats mk gets a medal.


or mlg rules should be no items meta knight only, final destination

 

[Delta_BP26]

GW shuts Luigi the crap down too. DDD unfunite. Luigi's already screwed hard in a meta-less world.

Luigi's not completely shut down by G&W, but it is an uphill battle. Against Snake and Falco it is very winnable, more notably against Snake, and if you count out the infinite Luigi shouldn't have that hard a time against Dedede. MK, however, makes Luigi cry.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

replies in red

replies irrelivent or wrong and thusly not given credence.

you sir.... have lost. give it up.

 

[M.K]

ahh That Sucks, In Melee We Had So Much More Variety! See:

M2k (marth/fox)
Pc Chris (falco/fox)
Kdj (sheik/fox)
Ken (marth/fox)

Oh Wait......


In Melee There Was A Meme "fd No Items Fox Only" And Fox Never Got Banned. Deal With It

Fox Had Bad Match-ups! Fox Could Be Countered! Every Scrub In This Thread: Get These Facts Through Your Thick, Unknowing Skulls!​

 

[Koga]

WRONG!

when the metagame devolves to: If you do not use this charcter, you will not stand a reasonable chance of winning tournaments with peers on a professional level.

THAT is the criteria for a ban... but it's an immesurable criteria. Overswarms are measurable and capture the essence of why that is the case

WRONG!

I know it sucks to hear it, but someone has to say it: just because all of you pro ban people aggree on a criteria doesn't make it right at all. Banning is a big deal and shouldn't be taken so lightly, it should take a serious offense to warrant banning a character, and MK just doesn't do anything so horridly stupid he should be banned, he just doesn't.

 

[Vulcan55]

Plenty of other MKs doesn't count because we don't know there skill. We know the skill of this MK was at the top and azen was forced to play MK or loose.

Yes, they do.
The game has not devolved into play MK or lose.
Just because ONE PERSON did it in ONE MATCH does NOT mean the entire metagame has turned into it.

 

[TeeVee]

Brinboy - Vidjo, Plank?, OS?, DSF...

 

[brinboy789]

God you moron go look at tournament results dojo got 9th at hobo 11 your talking about him like he is 1 of 2 while there are a lot more.

1: M2K (meta)
2: Azen (lucario/meta)
3: Lee (meta)
4: DMG (wario
5: DSF (snake/meta)
5: Roy_R (marth)
7: Edrees (peach)
7: Hylian (GW/meta?)
9: Chuck (meta/pkmn)
9: Ky (pit)
9: Dojo (meta)
9: Magik (meta/pkmn)

im not sure but

hylian said he used GW with a little of IC's sprinkled. he said he only used MK in friendlies
and isnt lee that amazing G&W player? or am i mistaking that for someone else.
and im not asking for tourney results. im asking for PLAYERS WHO CONSISTENTLY WIN TOURNEYS WITH MK. i could care less about the rest of the players

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

replies in red

I think your just deciding not to read what people reply to you. Plenty of people have listed other MK mains for like 3 pages.

Also what the hell is with all this melee talk. This isn't melee. It doesn't have roy it doesn't have L canceling it doesn't have wave dashing.

 

[brinboy789]

replies irrelivent or wrong and thusly not given credence.

you sir.... have lost. give it up.

-sigh-...as usual, the insults, and no logic. from now on i am not responding to anything that i have either answered before, have NO logic in them, or is pure BS.

have a good day

 

[Delta_BP26]

Those are players who consistently win with MK.

You're OWNING yourself.

This is why '08ers are given a bad name. And according to your definition of these things, you won't be responding to any more posts.

 

[salaboB]

sorry for double post

you ALL are giving me BS arguements that ive already answered. plz give me somethign that nobody has mentioned?

You have yet to explain why you believe an AT can be found if given more time, or even think of an example of a general AT that will let someone oppose MK but won't give MK a similar advantage.

You ignored people explaining the stage-advantage/disadvantage deal.

You haven't explained why it's a last resort to ban a character, except that it's what the anti-ban people keep saying over and over again.

You haven't explained why it will be bad for the game to try running a few tournaments (That is the essence of a temp-ban) with MK banned.

You haven't explained why you think that 7 months hasn't been long enough to find a lot of ATs when people have been hammering at this game's controls in attempts at duplicating ATs from Melee and/or just plain breaking it because so many were found for Melee. ie, the ATs have been located much faster than Melee's.

You haven't explained how these mystery ATs will be found by non-MKs when MK is still gaining popularity as he continues to win.

You haven't explained why losing warm bodies at competitions is acceptable, even if you think they're whiners. Calling someone a name doesn't mean you can have a good competition without decent attendance. Hobo would have been pretty boring if only 6 people had shown up, even if they were the 6 best in the country (Though that would be a little more interesting than if they were just 6 decent players.)

 

[ssbbFICTION]

While all other characters in the game have actual weaknesses, metaknight is the perfect representation of a person's skill level. He has high land speed, high glide speed (easily done), fast attack speed, 6 jumps, a gliding recovery, and powerful smash attacks. He even has amazing B moves. Now lets take someone else top tier, like snake. Yes, snake is amazing, but everyone knows hes not broken. Hes got lag everywhere and an easy to gimp recovery. Those are weaknesses if you ask me.

Lets take another character that is nearly perfect. Melee fox. If a player has enough tech skill, melee fox is almost unbeatable. He has great combos, fast land speed, fast running air speed, and low percent kills. :O. But.....one grab from marth and he's dead, and nearly every character has some sort of grab combo. Hes also easy to juggle because he falls so fast. He has something BEATABLE. MK has no true counterpicks and is truly the perfect character.

Case closed.

 

[brinboy789]

I think your just deciding not to read what people reply to you. Plenty of people have listed other MK mains for like 3 pages.

Also what the hell is with all this melee talk. This isn't melee. It doesn't have roy it doesn't have L canceling it doesn't have wave dashing.

sorry for double post

im not talking about melee. who is? except for some people who are comparing melee top tiers or something

give me PROOF. i honestly dont care how much you hate MK. give me good solid PROOF on those 4 points, and i lose

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Yes, they do.
The game has not devolved into play MK or lose.
Just because ONE PERSON did it in ONE MATCH does NOT mean the entire metagame has turned into it.

Why do they count then? What your implying is that me fighting my sisters MK counts as much as fighting Lees. You either need to word things better or back up why decent MKs count just as much as pro MKs

 

[Koga]

Fox Had Bad Match-ups! Fox Could Be Countered! Every Scrub In This Thread: Get These Facts Through Your Thick, Unknowing Skulls!​

Yeah they were Bad matchups, enough to keep the high level of play varied huh?

face it, you believe that fox had bad matchups because you were willing to accept fox. Fox did not have enough negatives to keep him from dominating tourney play. so what they say that DK is a bad matchup for fox, or even that Marth was, so freaking what like it mattered.

fox did not have these "Bad matchups" that you are requiring form MK, his "bad matchups" were equivalent to MK "even matchups"

even if MK had no bad matchups, that's not ban worthy by millions of lightyears

 

[brinboy789]

While all other characters in the game have actual weaknesses, metaknight is the perfect representation of a person's skill level. He has high land speed, high glide speed (easily done), fast attack speed, 6 jumps, a gliding recovery, and powerful smash attacks. He even has amazing B moves. Now lets take someone else top tier, like snake. Yes, snake is amazing, but everyone knows hes not broken. Hes got lag everywhere and an easy to gimp recovery. Those are weaknesses if you ask me.

Lets take another character that is nearly perfect. Melee fox. If a player has enough tech skill, melee fox is almost unbeatable. He has great combos, fast land speed, fast running air speed, and low percent kills. :O. But.....one grab from marth and he's dead, and nearly every character has some sort of grab combo. Hes also easy to juggle because he falls so fast. He has something BEATABLE. MK has no true counterpicks and is truly the perfect character.

Case closed.

70-80% of MK's matchups is 60:40. besides, what does that have to do with my 4 points?

due to the amount of ignorance, im going to sum up ALL if my arguements in one psot. if you can refute all my points, and i cannot say anything, then i lose

1. the games metagame is NOT even close to being fully developed. a melee AT was discovered like a month ago. melees been out for...8 years? probably more. and yet still AT's are still to be discovered. and brawls physic engines are WAY different the melee, so no AT's were transferred. sure theres a larger community, but its 8 years >>>>>>>>>>>> half a year
2. If wario's CG works, then MK WILL have a bad matchup. NOBODY can argue that an one-mistake = 112% advantage can be good. and even if it doesnt work. most of his matchups at 60:40. thats very winnable.
3. somebody said something about no poor stages for MK. MK is a MELEE fighter. melee fighters generally dont have advantages/disadvantages on stages. MK's best stage is rainbow cruise because it focuses on aerial game, which is MK's bread on butter.
4. ahh, tourneys. MK dominates them. name one smasher that isnt M2K or Dojo that uses MK that consistently wins tourneys. if you cant, that means M2K and Dojo win the majority of MK wins, sprinkled with a minority of other MK players.

if you can refute all of these and i cant say anything, you win

posted again so you can all see and not say things over and over

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

WRONG!

I know it sucks to hear it, but someone has to say it: just because all of you pro ban people aggree on a criteria doesn't make it right at all. Banning is a big deal and shouldn't be taken so lightly, it should take a serious offense to warrant banning a character, and MK just doesn't do anything so horridly stupid he should be banned, he just doesn't.

Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow

MK=Mewtwo

no weaknesses. no bad matchups. insta ban because he's uber... he's supposed to be. MK was not supposed to be but he is. I don't see why you can't get stuff like this:

Fox Had Bad Match-ups! Fox Could Be Countered! Every Scrub In This Thread: Get These Facts Through Your Thick, Unknowing Skulls!​

through your thick skull but when you CANNOT expect to win unless you use a certain character, he is broken and should be banned.

the fact that you believe that a game in which everyone plays MK on different levels is okay makes me laugh, and weep.... but most of all, want to shove a grenade up your ***.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Vidjo wins tourneys
Infernomni wins tourneys
Plank wins tourneys
Forte wins tourneys
DSF wins tourneys
Overswarm wins tourneys
and hylian started playing MK in tourneys a little while ago, just another one on the list that is switching to MK
Stilts wins tourneys
Lee wins tourneys
Dojo won ONE tourney

and they ALLLLLL play metaknight... stop saying theres only two people

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

What are these 4 points you keep talking about are they ones that I answered at the top of page 163?

 

[Delta_BP26]

You lost 8 million times, brinboy. Please stop saying, "When I get disproved I'll give up" because you should have been out of the topic long ago.

 

[brinboy789]

Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow

MK=Mewtwololwut pokemon? i never played it but isnt mewtwo like the "legendary" pokemon? SHOULDNT he be extremely good and broken? hes legendary

no weaknesses. no bad matchups. insta ban because he's uber... he's supposed to be. MK was not supposed to be but he is. I don't see why you can't get stuff like this
through your thick skull but when you CANNOT expect to win unless you use a certain character, he is broken and should be banned.insta win if your meta. you logic phails

the fact that you believe that a game in which everyone plays MK on different levels is okay makes me laugh, and weep.... but most of all, want to shove a grenade up your ***.as usual, nobody can answer my points...-sigh-

please isntead of wanting to shove things up my ***, prove my four points wrong. its more pleasurable for me

 

[M.K]

Yeah they were Bad matchups, enough to keep the high level of play varied huh?

face it, you believe that fox had bad matchups because you were willing to accept fox. Fox did not have enough negatives to keep him from dominating tourney play. so what they say that DK is a bad matchup for fox, or even that Marth was, so freaking what like it mattered.

fox did not have these "Bad matchups" that you are requiring form MK, his "bad matchups" were equivalent to MK "even matchups"

even if MK had no bad matchups, that's not ban worthy by millions of lightyears

*facepalm*​

I don't think you can make it more obvious that you have absolutely no idea about how the competitive scene of this video game series works. Fox was not banned because he did not completely obliterate the metagame. He had counters that could stand a chance against him. He had advantageous, disadvantageous, AND even match-ups.
Meta-Knight destroys people. He destroys the metagame by simply EXISTING as a viable character. I can't put this any more simply.

through your thick skull but when you CANNOT expect to win unless you use a certain character, he is broken and should be banned.

O_O

Were you adding on to my point or disagreeing with it?!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

aaaaaand he posted his "4-points of phail thesis" again.... if he does that one more time he's getting ignored. honestly. his arguments have been shot full of more holes than a pair of risque undies.

 

[salaboB]

Vidjo wins tourneys
Infernomni wins tourneys
Plank wins tourneys
Forte wins tourneys
DSF wins tourneys
Overswarm wins tourneys
and hylian started playing MK in tourneys a little while ago, just another one on the list that is switching to MK
Stilts wins tourneys
Lee wins tourneys
Dojo won ONE tourney

and they ALLLLLL play metaknight... stop saying theres only two people

This.

And you've ignored my list of things that you never gave facts that contradicted (As well as my response to your response about your four points. Yes, I addressed your concerns I didn't just repeat what had originally been said.)

I'm actually not sure why I'm still arguing with you since you're only reading the bits of replies that you believe you can contradict, but I do see why Yuna is careful to never provide an actual list of what he thinks for people to address.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Where the hell are these 4 points?

 

[Vulcan55]

Why do they count then? What your implying is that me fighting my sisters MK counts as much as fighting Lees. You either need to word things better or back up why decent MKs count just as much as pro MKs

High level of play is the only thing that counts.
If you are dedicated enough to continue practicing and going to tournaments and truly play this game competitively, then you are playing at a high level of play.

Casuals with you little sister are not high level.

Also, to your other point, the skill gap between good players and pro players in Brawl is a lot smaller than in most other fighting games.

 

[brinboy789]

What are these 4 points you keep talking about are they ones that I answered at the top of page 163?

look down

You lost 8 million times, brinboy. Please stop saying, "When I get disproved I'll give up" because you should have been out of the topic long ago.

wow. another f4g who insults me but fails on logic. for the love of freakin god ANSWER THESE
1. the games metagame is NOT even close to being fully developed. a melee AT was discovered like a month ago. melees been out for...8 years? probably more. and yet still AT's are still to be discovered. and brawls physic engines are WAY different the melee, so no AT's were transferred. sure theres a larger community, but its 8 years >>>>>>>>>>>> half a year
2. If wario's CG works, then MK WILL have a bad matchup. NOBODY can argue that an one-mistake = 112% advantage can be good. and even if it doesnt work. most of his matchups at 60:40. thats very winnable.
3. somebody said something about no poor stages for MK. MK is a MELEE fighter. melee fighters generally dont have advantages/disadvantages on stages. MK's best stage is rainbow cruise because it focuses on aerial game, which is MK's bread on butter.
4. ahh, tourneys. MK dominates them. name one smasher that isnt M2K or Dojo that uses MK that consistently wins tourneys. if you cant, that means M2K and Dojo win the majority of MK wins, sprinkled with a minority of other MK players.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

please isntead of wanting to shove things up my ***, prove my four points wrong. its more pleasurable for me

wow. not only is he so humerously failing... but he's also managed to somehow confuse himself with koga... I guess when you delude yourself as much as brinboy does (psst... he actually thinks he's WINNING the argument) you can delude yourself into anything.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Also, to your other point, the skill gap between good players and pro players in Brawl is a lot smaller than in most other fighting games.

Its still there though and it should change how much everything counts. Plenty of people pratice enough to play at tournaments I'm one of them but my MK shouldn't count as much as M2Ks.

 

[brinboy789]

*facepalm*​

I don't think you can make it more obvious that you have absolutely no idea about how the competitive scene of this video game series works. Fox was not banned because he did not completely obliterate the metagame. He had counters that could stand a chance against him. He had advantageous, disadvantageous, AND even match-ups.
Meta-Knight destroys people. He destroys the metagame by simply EXISTING as a viable character. I can't put this any more simply.



O_O

Were you adding on to my point or disagreeing with it?!

summing up your logic. you simply HAVE to be MK, or else you will lose.

you epicly fail

 

[Delta_BP26]

Where the hell are these 4 points?

They're up his ***. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but I'm really getting pissed off.

 

[da K.I.D.]

the fourth point is super dead, do i have to go back and refute your garbage points one post at a time?

 

[Delta_BP26]

summing up your logic. you simply HAVE to be MK, or else you will lose.

you epicly fail

You DO have to be Metaknight. Just because you're terrible with him doesn't mean he is easily beatable.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

O_O

Were you adding on to my point or disagreeing with it?!

adding on adding on. I want to give you all sorts of massive win hugs for it


oh and so as to not waste a post with spam: brinboy is one completely ignorant post away from getting added to my ignore list