The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Zankoku]

Footstooling the Tornado is annoyingly difficult when rising... but it seems to be very much possible, and there's nothing wrong with leaping way up in the air... you'd've been up there due to Tornado anyway, except this way you took 15% less damage.

 

[Snakeee]

...and my character can down B special footstool and avoid the whole thing almost every time

 

[ProBrawler]

Then once you're in the air you have the advantage since MK has a terrible air game... <_<

You better realize that's sarcasm.

 

[Overswarm]

Just an aside...

Does anyone else find it hilarious that we are on page 523 and people are still discussing how to avoid the TORNADO?

 

[∫unk]

Why do people keep saying MK has more than 50% of the Atlantic North wins? I went through Ankoku's archive, and MK barely wins. I attend 5 events per month in my region, and MK rarely gets 1st.

I think it's time you re-evaluate what you're doing with your life simply based on this fact. I mean I don't really care but I'm slightly worried on a human-to-human basis.

And you're not backing up your own claims with evidence (like if you really went through Ankoku's stuff or the bolded claim above)... why wouldn't you bother linking it for others to see? Surely a intelligent debater such as yourself would see the value in this.

And if you're failing to provide evidence how can you ridicule others of it? I've seen you do it at least once to OS.

 

[Mew2King]

are you saying i know a lot about mk dittos? cuz i don't. I used to suck at them, then i realized the entire match is horizontal range mostly, and just fought normally. Little experience got me good at them, I don't even play anybody cept on some Saturdays. Probably because MK can't surprise me since I use him and know everything he can do, but before i even picked up MK i was ****** MKs with DDD, and I've done it with Snake plenty of times too.

edit - just block tornado. If you can retaliate, do it, if you can't, just jump away. You're either reset, or able to counterattack by just blocking, one or the other.

edit 2 - you really should stop bringing up that inui lost to sonic, because he sucks horribly vs sonic. It's like saying I lost to jigglypuff. Even after picking up MK, he almost lost to a NY sonic 2-1, where the prior tourney he got top 2 in a big tourney beating people like bum and NL. He has a weakness to the character for some reason, no matter who he's using. He was also playing horrible that specific tourney.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

are you saying i know a lot about mk dittos? cuz i don't. I used to suck at them, then i realized the entire match is horizontal range mostly, and just fought normally. Little experience got me good at them, I don't even play anybody cept on some Saturdays. Probably because MK can't surprise me since I use him and know everything he can do, but before i even picked up MK i was ****** MKs with DDD, and I've done it with Snake plenty of times too.

edit - just block tornado. If you can retaliate, do it, if you can't, just jump away. You're either reset, or able to counterattack by just blocking, one or the other.

edit 2 - you really should stop bringing up that inui lost to sonic, because he sucks horribly vs sonic. It's like saying I lost to jigglypuff. Even after picking up MK, he almost lost to a NY sonic 2-1, where the prior tourney he got top 2 in a big tourney beating people like bum and NL. He has a weakness to the character for some reason, no matter who he's using. He was also playing horrible that specific tourney.

@ edit1 or MK gets in a better position or he pokes trough the shield. I really doubt things have an either or in brawl. Also once in the neutral position he can just tornado again if you didn't have a chance to counter attack the first time whats going to change? unless the MK messes up.

@edit 2 people keep bring up OS loosing to MK then switching to him. Even saying that its the only reason he wants him banned. You haven't told them to stop so I see no reason for OS to do stop with the sonic loss.

 

[Inui]

I think it's time you re-evaluate what you're doing with your life simply based on this fact. I mean I don't really care but I'm slightly worried on a human-to-human basis.

And you're not backing up your own claims with evidence (like if you really went through Ankoku's stuff or the bolded claim above)... why wouldn't you bother linking it for others to see? Surely a intelligent debater such as yourself would see the value in this.

And if you're failing to provide evidence how can you ridicule others of it? I've seen you do it at least once to OS.

http://theviashino.com/ssbb/tournaments2.txt

Atlantic North

Atlantic North 1st Place Wins:
May 31: Azen - Lucario
May 31: KoreanDJ - ROB/Lucario/Wario
May 31: Cort - Snake/Meta Knight
June 1: Mew2King - Dedede/Meta Knight
June 7: D1 - Falco
June 7: dmbrandon - Meta Knight
June 8: Cort - Snake
June 13: Bum - DK
June 14: Ryan_K - Wario
June 14: Mew2King - Dedede/Meta Knight
June 20: WhoDat - Olimar
June 21: Inui - Marth/Dedede
June 21: OmegaBlackMage - Game and Watch
June 21: Mew2King - Meta Knight/Dedede
June 25: Bajisci - ROB
June 28: OmegaBlackMage - Game and Watch
June 28: Mew2King - Meta Knight/Dedede
June 29: Azen - Lucario
July 5: Mew2King - Meta Knight
July 5: K.I.D. Goggles - Sonic
July 11: Bum - DK
July 12: Cort - Snake/Meta Knight
July 13: Sol - Snake/Dedede
July 18: Bum - DK
July 19: chillindude829 - Dedede/Snake/Falco
July 19: Pika Pika - Pikachu/Meta Knight
July 26: OmegaBlackMage - Game and Watch
July 26: Azen - Lucario/Peach
July 26: Dazwa - Zero Suit Samus
July 26: NinjaLink - Diddy Kong
July 27: OmegaBlackMage - Game and Watch
July 27: BlackWaltz - Olimar
August 2: Jman - Meta Knight
August 2: Pika Pika - Pikachu
August 3: Mew2King - Meta Knight
August 9: Azen - Lucario
August 9: JesiahTEG - Snake
August 16: Eli - Wario/DK/Luigi/Kirby
August 16: Plank - Meta Knight
August 17: Mew2King - Meta Knight
August 23: Darc - Marth
August 23: chillindude829 - Falco/Dedede
August 23: Mew2King - Meta Knight
August 24: KoreanDJ - Random
August 29: dMT - Zelda/Sheik
August 30: G-regulate - Snake
August 30: Azen - Lucario
September 7: Azen - Lucario
September 13: Shadow - Meta Knight
September 13: Mew2King - Meta Knight
September 21: Mew2King - Meta Knight
September 27: Azen - Diddy Kong
September 27: Candy - Snake
September 27: JesiahTEG - Snake
September 27: Atomsk - Dedede
September 27: Jman - Dedede/Meta Knight
October 4: NES n00b - Meta Knight/Luigi
October 4: teh_spamerer - Meta Knight
October 4: OmegaBlackMage - Game and Watch
October 10: Bum - DK
October 11: Atomsk - Dedede/Meta Knight/Lucario
October 11: JesiahTEG - Snake
October 18: Azen - Lucario
October 18: Candy - Snake/Wolf
October 19: Forte - Meta Knight

Including Mew2King's wins and counting all partial MK wins as half:

17/66

~26% win-rate for Meta Knight

Mew2King is responsible for 7 of those wins.

Everyone, cease speaking of my region. You are all ignorant.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I always thought ankoku's thread counted the top 8 just like that link inui posted. Guess I was just being ignorant though.

 

[Mortimer]

Including Mew2King's wins and counting all partial MK wins as half:

17/66

~26% win-rate for Meta Knight

Everyone, cease speaking of my region. You are all ignorant.

Doing the same thing, but only counting Sept-Oct:

11.5/32

~36% win-rate for Meta Knight.

Just to keep things in perspective.

[Edit] Just noticed I actually counted Aug-Oct.

 

[Inui]

Doing the same thing, but only counting Sept-Oct:

11.5/32

~36% win-rate for Meta Knight.

Just to keep things in perspective.

That's only because teh_spamerer finally left his house and Forte finally won after a huge dry spell. XD

Also, Mew2King stopped using Dedede by then.

I always thought ankoku's thread counted the top 8 just like that link inui posted. Guess I was just being ignorant though.

Okay? Click that archive link. MK still isn't that common in the top 8.

He's not winning our tournaments. We beat him. We have an impressive amount of character diversity.

The only tournament I personally won in singles (I won teams many, many times, but not singles) after switching to MK was SB3...in Ohio.

 

[Mew2King]

so you're saying when all the MK players are at their max, used at the peak of top-player-popularity, the win rate is 36%. Wow lol. Marth won almost every MLG let's ban Marth LOL

 

[Plairnkk]

fox also won probably 40%

BAN FOX PLX

 

[Jam Stunna]

The argument is not about whether or not MK wins tournaments. The argument is whether or not he can be counterpicked.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Its funny how even after AZ's thread people can't agree on who dominated when in melee.

 

[Tenki]

I always thought ankoku's thread counted the top 8 just like that link inui posted. Guess I was just being ignorant though.

It gives out different 'point values' to those high enough.

As for 'points', number of entrants and prize money/entrance fee also count, so if the tourneys that M2K wins are really large, then it naturally gives more points in the Ankoku ranking.

 

[Inui]

The argument is not about whether or not MK wins tournaments. The argument is whether or not he can be counterpicked.

And this matters...how? It's been proven over and over and over and over in Atlantic North that Meta Knight can be beaten and doesn't break the counterpicking system at all. He doesn't need to be counterpicked to be beaten. Azen wins with Lucario. G-regulate wins with Snake. D1 wins with Falco. NinjaLink wins with Diddy. Atomsk wins with Dedede. Etc. Meta Knights get stopped.

 

[Mew2King]

Fox can't be counterpicked in melee. MK gets counterpicked the same as fox does. Fox has no bad matchups (falco? many say falco wins, many say even, many say fox wins, pc says fox wins and so does a lot of other top players i talked to, i just specifically suck at the matchup or used to a lot. ONLY change is CGers on FD, but Fox can just run away and laser the whole time) and no bad stages. Any stage he's "bad" on he can just run and laser. MK has to approach you no matter what. Even though Melee takes more skill, at high level Fox is more ban worthy than MK is, but that would be beyond a ******** idea.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I'm not saying that MK can't be counterpicked. All I'm saying is that throwing around statistics about who wins tournaments is a red herring.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

yah but we're talking about brawl. If your going to compare it to another game at least do one that has banned characters.

 

[Inui]

I'm not saying that MK can't be counterpicked. All I'm saying is that throwing around statistics about who wins tournaments is a red herring.

Uh...

If Meta Knight BARELY wins in Atlantic North, why in God's name would we ever want to ban him? We have no incentive to ban him because he doesn't win. He barely even gets top 3 in places like MD/VA and NY.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

BARELY? I'm starting to think your ignorant of your own region. You said he wins over 1/4th of the tournaments. he's won over 1/3rd of the tournaments in the past 2 months.

edit: You even went back and increased the size of the font. I'd like to see another one of the 38 characters winning 1 out of 3 tournaments in the past 2 months.

edit2: I have horrible grammar I keep trying to fix it but it just seems to make it worse 0.0

 

[da K.I.D.]

id just like to point out that every tournament that has jesiah winning with snake should have Mk next to his name as well...
i was at the majority of those tourney and Mk deserves half the points for all of those wins

it my opinion that inui changed that on his own as well as possibly changing other dual-main-tourney-winners to only the non Mk character to further his own argument

 

[da K.I.D.]

Its funny how even after AZ's thread people can't agree on who dominated when in melee.

i noticed this a while back and this is why melee comparisons NEVER work...

@inui, last time i checked, Rochester was part of new york, and in the roc. Mk gets at least 2 of the top 3 spots at every tourney for the last 3-4 months now
at the tourney before last, 5 of the top 5 and 6 of the top 8 places used MK at some point for an important match that they felt they had to use Mk to win

 

[Mew2King]

oh it works just fine. While best character in melee may be an opinion, the matchups aren't disputed greatly in terms of number ranges. It really comes down to Fox can't be counterpicked and Fox has no bad matchups. In my personal opinon, it is the same for Sheik, but that's just my own opinon. Fox has no bad matchups though, and can't be counterpicked.

 

[Inui]

id just like to point out that every tournament that has jesiah winning with snake should have Mk next to his name as well...
i was at the majority of those tourney and Mk deserves half the points for all of those wins

it my opinion that inui changed that on his own as well as possibly changing other dual-main-tourney-winners to only the non Mk character to further his own argument

I took everything directly from the archive, changed nothing, and I heard Jesiah only uses MK on random dumb stages that should be banned anyways (Nofair, for instance).

I didn't change change anything. Click the link. Check for yourself. You're a real prick if you'd just randomly accuse me of changing the results. I don't care if anyone insults me for anything else or about anything else, but I pride myself on being EXTREMELY honest, even to the point that I GLADY sacrifice courtesy for honesty and disregard the feelings of others in order to state the cold truth.

@inui, last time i checked, Rochester was part of new york, and in the roc. Mk gets at least 2 of the top 3 spots.
at the tourney before last, 5 of the top 5 and 6 of the top 8 places used MK at some point for an important match that they felt they had to use Mk to win

Nobody should care about Jesiah using MK on banned stages.

He wins your stuff with SNAKE.

BARELY? I'm starting to think your ignorant of your own region. You said he wins over 1/4th of the tournaments. he's won over 1/3rd of the tournaments in the past 2 months.

edit: You even went back and increased the size of the font. I'd like to see another one of the 38 characters winning 1 out of 3 tournaments in the past 2 months.

Sorry, but this is competitive gaming. Garbage characters don't get to win. Only the good ones do. Nobody cares that you want to see something besides MK winning.

Winning 1/4 of the tournaments =/= a big deal at all. It's not much. I consider that barely winning. Everyone else seems to think MK is some unstoppable God winning everything. Well, maybe Mew2King's MK is...but that's it LOL.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Uh...

If Meta Knight BARELY wins in Atlantic North, why in God's name would we ever want to ban him? We have no incentive to ban him because he doesn't win. He barely even gets top 3 in places like MD/VA and NY.

The preponderance of threads like these is incentive enough to at least consider a ban. Brawl's metagame has essentially ground to a halt as this debate has raged on. At this point, it's almost irrelevant whether MK is actually broken or not, because his very existence in the game draws resources away from other discussions regarding tactics, characters, stages, etc. There's a new Metaknight thread almost every day.

 

[Mew2King]

it's cuz the new brawl community sucks. Melee community was way better and more mature. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=165255185

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Nobody should care about Jesiah using MK on banned stages.

He wins your stuff with SNAKE.



Sorry, but this is competitive gaming. Garbage characters don't get to win. Only the good ones do. Nobody cares that you want to see something besides MK winning.

Winning 1/4 of the tournaments =/= a big deal at all. It's not much. I consider that barely winning. Everyone else seems to think MK is some unstoppable God winning everything. Well, maybe Mew2King's MK is...but that's it LOL.

What do you not consider a "garbage" character then the upper half the tier list? Show me someone who wins 1/3rd of the tournaments then.

Funny how no one should care about jesiah using MK on stages that his character would get counter picked on. It should just be thrown out and never questioned again. Not even how he was playing on a banned stage at a tournament that I guess only you think should be banned since it was allowed.

Also M2K doesn't fox have bad stages? and if fox is so great why did you say that math should have been banned a few pages ago? can at least 1 person make up there mind on who was broken in melee?

 

[Mew2King]

because you guys are using different arguments

if you are going on matchups and counterpicks it is the same as fox

if you are going on tourney results at important things it is the same as marth (except at the big things, marths domination was technically more than MKs thanks to ken/azen/me)

fox does not have bad stages. The worst you can do to fox is pick FD with a character that can CG him, and that's not even a bad match. I beat Ken's Marth in tourney before my Fox reached my prime, I beat PC's Marth there, Azen's Marth there, and have lost to PC's Fox there before. Fox has no matchup arguably worse than 55:45, same as MK. He also can't be counterpicked. Fox also has a thing called lasers, so anything he doesn't like he can just run from you and shoot, while MK has to attack you. It is a very comparable thing.

Funny how no one considers that I ***** chillins snake 2-0 in tourney less than 2 months ago at CH4 in the Snake vs MK match (I was snake) 2 stock mid % and 1 stock low %. At least those were valid important matches instead of him using MK on people he could already beat at easy tourneys. Well, I already sent him a message about it that he was mentioned through AIM, maybe he will read it and say something, because from what I hear he ***** everyone there with Snake pretty easily.

I'm going to bed now it's 2 AM.

 

[ProBrawler]

Well, using those same statistics, the number of MK's winning from the first 33 tournaments (about 6) just about doubled (12) in the second 33 tournies.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

because you guys are using different arguments

if you are going on matchups and counterpicks it is the same as fox

if you are going on tourney results at important things it is the same as marth (except at the big things, marths domination was technically more than MKs thanks to ken/azen/me)

fox does not have bad stages. The worst you can do to fox is pick FD with a character that can CG him, and that's not even a bad match. I beat Ken's Marth in tourney before my Fox reached my prime, I beat PC's Marth there, Azen's Marth there, and have lost to PC's Fox there before. Fox has no matchup arguably worse than 55:45, same as MK. He also can't be counterpicked. Fox also has a thing called lasers, so anything he doesn't like he can just run from you and shoot, while MK has to attack you. It is a very comparable thing.

kool so using individual arguments different characters qualified to be banned in melee. To bad that in brawl only MK fits into either.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i can,

everybody all the way down to the end of high/ mid tier was broken. (whichever was the tier ganon, doc, and mario were on)

thats essentailly why the game was good, at the very least fox, falco, marth and shiek were all broken in that game...

it doesnt matter how broken the characters were, what matters is that there was more than 1, and for that matter, more than 2 characters on top of the game.

 

[dainbramage]

And this matters...how? It's been proven over and over and over and over in Atlantic North that Meta Knight can be beaten and doesn't break the counterpicking system at all. He doesn't need to be counterpicked to be beaten. Azen wins with Lucario. G-regulate wins with Snake. D1 wins with Falco. NinjaLink wins with Diddy. Atomsk wins with Dedede. Etc. Meta Knights get stopped.

Metaknight has 23 wins, counting those who used multiple (simply because it's easier. I think this benefits the other characters more than MK in terms of numbers, by the way)
Snake 11
Dedede 11
Lucario 9
Game and watch 5
Falco 3
ROB 2
Olimar 2 (you think this guy's the best character, don't you?)
Marth 2
Diddy 2


Interpret it how you will. But, if MK is barely winning, what are all the other characters doing?

EDIT: I fail @ counting. MK had 23 wins, not 24.

 

[Inui]

The preponderance of threads like these is incentive enough to at least consider a ban. Brawl's metagame has essentially ground to a halt as this debate has raged on. At this point, it's almost irrelevant whether MK is actually broken or not, because his very existence in the game draws resources away from other discussions regarding tactics, characters, stages, etc. There's a new Metaknight thread almost every day.

I don't think anything but top level play should count for anything. Nobody should care that Foxmaster97332 can't beat a 9 year-old tornado spamming MK in Wyoming. At the top level, MK frequently loses to many characters and players. The best MKs lose to G-reg's Snake, my Snake, Azen's Lucario, Atomsk's Dedede, D1's Falco, NinjaLink's Diddy, etc.

What do you not consider a "garbage" character then the upper half the tier list? Show me someone who wins 1/3rd of the tournaments then.

Funny how no one should care about jesiah using MK on stages that his character would get counter picked on. It should just be thrown out and never questioned again. Not even how he was playing on a banned stage at a tournament that I guess only you think should be banned since it was allowed.

Only top tiers really get to win. That's the nature of competitive winning. What characters always win Guilty Gear with few exceptions, despite that game being the most balanced fighting game ever? Eddie, Testament, Slayer, Jam, Potemkin...all S tier characters or at least top of A tier. Those characters have an inherent advantage due to being the best, and toppling them takes a tremendous amount of work or luck.

Jesiah randomly picking MK on a stage like Nofair really doesn't matter. He's a Snake main and he wins the vast majority of his matches with Snake.

Stages like Nofair, Corneria, Green Greens, etc. are all TERRIBLE for competitive play and collectively banned in MD/VA, PA, NYC, and NJ.

Interpret it how you will. But, if MK is barely winning, what are all the other characters doing?

No single character is dominating at all. Mew2King was responsible for a lot of those wins, and he'd win with Dedede or Snake anways and you all know it. He chooses MK because he wants to have fun. In fact, literally 9 of those wins were from Mew2King, and 1 was from teh_spamerer. They would have won with various other characters anyways. Pardon us for letting the best player in the world win 9 times with Meta Knight. We obviously are dominated by this character.

 

[thespymachine]

it's cuz the new brawl community sucks. Melee community was way better and more mature. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=165255185

read your blog.

great read, good points, and very inspiring to be creative.

you should post it on other sites too

 

[DRaGZ]

it's cuz the new brawl community sucks. Melee community was way better and more mature. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=165255185

Your argument primarily rests on the fact that you think the majority of the community disagrees with you and you think it's wrong thus we are immature.

And then you argue about ledgecamping in Brawl when a lot of characters' much better off-stage options pretty much makes it a poor strategy to adhere to except against some characters.

That's real mature.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Only top tiers really get to win. That's the nature of competitive winning. What characters always win Guilty Gear with few exceptions, despite that game being the most balanced fighting game ever? Eddie, Testament, Slayer, Jam, Potemkin...all S tier characters or at least top of A tier. Those characters have an inherent advantage due to being the best, and toppling them takes a tremendous amount of work or luck.

Jesiah randomly picking MK on a stage like Nofair really doesn't matter. He's a Snake main and he wins the vast majority of his matches with Snake.

Stages like Nofair, Corneria, Green Greens, etc. are all TERRIBLE for competitive play and collectively banned in MD/VA, PA, NYC, and NJ.

lol you idiot. If only top tiers get to win we should throw away every tournament that diddy DK lucario Wario and marth all win because something must of been wrong there if someone besides the top 6 won.

IMO if you use MK its because you thought you where going to loose a match. Just like azen used MK against lee martin. IDC if its the only time he did it he still did it and if he didn't he would have won a lot less money possibly not covering his costs of flying out to texas.

I don't think anything but top level play should count for anything. Nobody should care that Foxmaster97332 can't beat a 9 year-old tornado spamming MK in Wyoming. At the top level, MK frequently loses to many characters and players. The best MKs lose to G-reg's Snake, my Snake, Azen's Lucario, Atomsk's Dedede, D1's Falco, NinjaLink's Diddy, etc.

Sorry only top tiers really get to win half of those where flukes.

No single character is dominating at all. Mew2King was responsible for a lot of those wins, and he'd win with Dedede or Snake anways and you all know it. He chooses MK because he wants to have fun. In fact, literally 9 of those wins were from Mew2King, and 1 was from teh_spamerer. They would have won with various other characters anyways. Pardon us for letting the best player in the world win 9 times with Meta Knight. We obviously are dominated by this character.

I actually don't believe he would win with out MK. M2K has said that he doesn't pratice brawl except maybe once a week.

MK is the reason this is possible because of his easy learning curve. If he used someone else I doubt he would be winning as consistently unless snake can be learned fully in 2 weeks.

This is easier than argueing with a child at least they don't contradict them selfs when they turn around to talk to someone else.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i once again feel the urge to counter bad logic with more bad logic... but ill resist.
random note, never played it but isnt VF the most balenced fighting game?

any way even if norfair was banned, the point is that jesiah will get counter picked and has to switch to that pocket Mk that every pro has to deal with it.

and in your guilty gear example you listed 5 characters. ive heard that either eddie or testament is the best character... do either one of them win the same amount of tourneys that Mk wins?

and lols i just realised an incontinuity in your statement. you said that the best MKs dont win, but that M2K and spam win all the tourneys
wassapwitdat?

DRaGZ is too good!!!
he said the same thing i was thinking.
inui, your falling apart man, me thinks you need some sleep. come back when you can form a cohesive, non-hypocritical argument
im also in agreement with the comment on M2K

 

[Inui]

Your argument primarily rests on the fact that you think the majority of the community disagrees with you and you think it's wrong thus we are immature.

And then you argue about ledgecamping in Brawl when a lot of characters' much better off-stage options pretty much makes it a poor strategy to adhere to except against some characters.

That's real mature.

Jason explained everything in a lot of detail. That's not his primary argument at all. Don't insult him like that. It's stupid.

lol you idiot. If only top tiers get to win we should throw away every tournament that diddy DK lucario Wario and marth all win because something must of been wrong there if someone besides the top 6 won.

-S Tier-
Meta Knight
Snake
Falco
Dedede
Game and Watch
Diddy Kong

That top tier was agreed on by both Mew2King and I. Atomsk and I both think Olimar is possibly in that tier now, so it could need an updating. Those are the best characters in the game, so any of them can win a tournament.

Marth, DK, and Lucario would easily fall into A tier, the second highest tier. This is the tier of characters like Jam in Guilty Gear that have won big tournaments. Those characters winning isn't a big surprise considering they are also good.

Wario is strange, though. Not enough people are abusing the grab release nonsense against him and/or they lack match-up experience. He really shouldn't be winning that much, but oh well. Maybe he's A tier and I'm wrong.

Garbage characters aren't winning. That point hasn't been proven wrong. Garbage characters aren't going to win even with MK gone.

IMO if you use MK its because you thought you where going to loose a match. Just like azen used MK against lee martin. IDC if its the only time he did it he still did it and if he didn't he would have won a lot less money possibly not covering his costs of flying out to texas.

OH NO, KEN SWITCHED TO FOX TO BEAT WIFE'S PEACH BECAUSE WIFE IS EXTREMELY GOOD AGAINST MARTH. FOX IS CLEARLY BANNABLE MATERIAL NOW.

Awesome argument there, buddy.

Sorry only top tiers really get to win half of those where flukes.

MK =/= only top tier.

Only a fool would seriously go by the SBR's abysmal tier list.

I actually don't believe he would win with out MK. M2K has said that he doesn't pratice brawl except maybe once a week.

You're dumb. Nobody has any idea how smart Jason is at Smash because they don't get to play him a lot. He'd win with Dedede and Snake just as easily and I'd bet any sum of money on that. It's a shame you don't live close enough to me for me to make some easy money on a bet.

MK is the reason this is possible because of his easy learning curve. If he used someone else I doubt he would be winning as consistently unless snake can be learned fully in 2 weeks.

Once again, you're wrong.

Mew2King entered Brawl with a massive advantage in skill that carried over from Melee. He has no reason to work hard in Brawl to stay at the top because he is already so far ahead of the community. If I was at his level, I doubt I'd play as much. He's comfortably at the top and Brawl doesn't have technical things to practice.

This is easier than argueing with a child at least they don't contradict them selfs when they turn around to talk to someone else.

An attack like this would be like me attacking your abysmal grammar and typing.

any way even if norfair was banned, the point is that jesiah will get counter picked and has to switch to that pocket Mk that every pro has to deal with it.

Nobody should care about what happens on a crappy banned stage. Every time someone picked Poke Floats against me in Melee, I went Fox. Nobody cried about everyone having a pocket-Fox for nonsense stages. Ken busted out Fox to beat Wife before because Wife ***** Marth too hard. By your logic, Fox should be banned.

and in your guilty gear example you listed 5 characters. ive heard that either eddie or testament is the best character... do either one of them win the same amount of tourneys that Mk wins?

Eddie has...about a 100% win-rate in NJ because of MarlinPie never losing. Nobody cries.

and lols i just realised an incontinuity in your statement. you said that the best MKs dont win, but that M2K and spam win all the tourneys
wassapwitdat?

Oops, my bad. I meant to say the best MKs besides Mew2King, because he's the best player in the world and would win with any other top tier anyways. teh_spamerer isn't undefeated, either. I've taken him out with Marth and he lost a set to Mew2King's DEDEDE.

DRaGZ is too good!!!
he said the same thing i was thinking.
inui, your falling apart man, me thinks you need some sleep. come back when you can form a cohesive, non-hypocritical argument
im also in agreement with the comment on M2K

Uh... Perhaps you should say something actually correct?

People like you are the reason I usually ignore low-level players and only focus on what the top players say.

You type up these jumbled blobs of text you call posts full of nonsense like "Meta Knight is broken" and accuse me of changing results even though you could have easily clicked the link to the archive to check for yourself to see that I changed nothing. I am still offended over that accussation because I have a lot of pride in my honesty.