The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[RednaXale]

Oh man, SC2...

Cervantes was awesome in that game.

Yes! My best character... If on the extra mode, I could one combo a lot of people using Lethe.

 

[DRaGZ]

galactus could pwn anyone, including spawn.

wait, scratch that. he can't pwn metaknight

Galactus got pwned by Silver Surfer who was his inferior progeny. Galactus fails.

 

[hotgarbage]

Spawn is almost as broken as metaknight

ololololololololol


EDIT: Also SC2 is pretty freaking amazing

 

[Master Knight DH]

If your opponent is lucas or ness, you can heal them too. :D Ain't that nice of you? ^_^

That's character specific.

Pit's arrow spam is not hard to get around.

Garbage and you know it. Try to approach him and he has too many options, none of which you can even react to because you're too busy dodging the arrows. This certainly applies with ROB and Dedede, both of whom are regarded as top tier.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Pit's arrow spam is not hard to get around.

shut up you play sonic, that doesnt count. pit is really hard to safely get inside of for some characters

Galactus got pwned by Silver Surfer who was his inferior progeny. Galactus fails.

trufax

Spawn is almost as broken as metaknight

ololololololololol


EDIT: Also SC2 is pretty freaking amazing

SC2 was amazing, my talim was best in that game

 

[aeghrur]

That's character specific.



Garbage and you know it. Try to approach him and he has too many options, none of which you can even react to because you're too busy dodging the arrows. This certainly applies with ROB and Dedede, both of whom are regarded as top tier.

Wait, wasn't the tornado thing character specific too? At least mine was characters, SSSSSSSSS, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, SSSSSSSSSSSSSS specifid. Cuz you can also apply reflectors like falco, fox, and wolf. Um, zelda can do that too right? Oh, and uh, pit himself, lol. SPAM ARROW WARS. ALMOST as fun as SPAMNADO WARS. :D
Disclaimer: My idiotic posts are not to be taken seriously.

 

[Jim Morrison]

lol at link in soul calibur 2

 

[Dark Sonic]

shut up you play sonic, that doesnt count. pit is really hard to safely get inside of for some characters

1. Shield
2.Walk foward
3????
4.Profit.

Seriously, getting past the arrow spam itself is not hard at all. What's hard for most characters is what comes afterwards...actually approaching Pit. Pit's defensive game is pretty good.

And no, Pit will not be broken with MK gone. He'll certainly be better, but he'll still have bad matchups won't he? (I know Marth has an advantage on him, but I don't know his other disadvantages).

 

[ShadowLink84]

Garbage and you know it. Try to approach him and he has too many options, none of which you can even react to because you're too busy dodging the arrows. This certainly applies with ROB and Dedede, both of whom are regarded as top tier.

he doesn't have many options.
once you are up close he gets zoned rather badly.
want to know how to get past the arrow spam? Short hopped air dodges.
Shielding then moving forward.
Jumping.

You know, basic stuff.

Also DDD and ROB are not top tier. There is no justification for them to be.

DDD and ROB are harder to approach because they don't get zoned up close and ahve the means to continously push you back.

 

[1048576]

Jumping is an AT in brawl.

 

[da K.I.D.]

That's character specific.



Garbage and you know it. Try to approach him and he has too many options, none of which you can even react to because you're too busy dodging the arrows. This certainly applies with ROB and Dedede, both of whom are regarded as top tier.

how to effectively get past arrows, 101

absorb with lucas/ness, and GaW
reflect with pit, wolf, falco, fox, ROB, mario ( i know im missing some)
go under with sonic(spins), olimar, (down tilt) lucario, luigi, pika, squirtle, snake, kirby, puff, (run than crouch and repeat) GaW, i feel like im missing some here too
counter with lucario, ike, and marth.

it doesnt suck by a long shot, but its nowhere near infalible either

 

[Dojo]

Also DDD and ROB are not top tier. There is no justification for them to be.

DDD and ROB are harder to approach because they don't get zoned up close and ahve the means to continously push you back.

Oh thats right, the SBR just decided to put them into top tier without any justification.

 

[DRaGZ]

That's character specific.



Garbage and you know it. Try to approach him and he has too many options, none of which you can even react to because you're too busy dodging the arrows. This certainly applies with ROB and Dedede, both of whom are regarded as top tier.

Lol, R.O.B. doing bad against arrow spam. All you do is walk forward, shield, forward, shield, tilt, get off-stage, f-air, f-air, f-air, laser, game.

Pit is too easy for R.O.B.

 

[da K.I.D.]

he doesn't have many options.
once you are up close he gets zoned rather badly.
want to know how to get past the arrow spam? Short hopped air dodges.
Shielding then moving forward.
Jumping.

You know, basic stuff.

Also DDD and ROB are not top tier. There is no justification for them to be.DDD and ROB are harder to approach because they don't get zoned up close and ahve the means to continously push you back.

why dont you watch a really good snake player get 0-deathed by a D3 chaingrab to wall of pain combo and say that again
and rob's 4 frame dsmash out of a spot dodge that has a rediculous lack of vulnerability says hi. not to mention that hes teh 2-3 best camper in the game

 

[aeghrur]

Jumping is an AT in brawl.

Walking is the hardest though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

anyone who doubts robs / ddds place in top tier phails at life

 

[ShadowLink84]

Oh thats right, the SBR just decided to put them into top tier without any justification.

The SBR is not the official source nor is anything they say perfect.

For one it is obvious that DDD and ROB are NOT at the level snake and Mk are simple as that.
hell if you look at the two they are by themselves in how good they are. can you honestly say DDD and ROb are as good characters as Snake and MK?
No.

Nor is there any sound argument for them to be.


If you agree with them thats fine but that means you also believe there is no bottom tier.

anyone who doubts robs / ddds place in top tier phails at life

I do not respect people who say such things so easily.
let alone when they do not ask for the reasoning or the doubt.

Again what proof is there that DDD and ROB are as good as snake and MK.

Tournament wise? no
Matchup wise? No
Again what is the justification that is so sound that people are basically agreeing with the SBR so very easily without question?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

ddd is arguabl better than snake jfyi

 

[DRaGZ]

As is R.O.B., if only because R.O.B. vs. Snake, a R.O.B. will generally win.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Wait, wasn't the tornado thing character specific too? At least mine was characters, SSSSSSSSS, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, SSSSSSSSSSSSSS specifid. Cuz you can also apply reflectors like falco, fox, and wolf. Um, zelda can do that too right? Oh, and uh, pit himself, lol. SPAM ARROW WARS. ALMOST as fun as SPAMNADO WARS. :D
Disclaimer: My idiotic posts are not to be taken seriously.

Let's see how many characters who can do either/both out of 38 (we exclude Pit for obvious reasons). Fox, Falco, Wolf, Ness, Lucas, G&W, Zelda, Mario.....that's still only 8. Even if we consider 33 characters (discount Meta Knight, who is likely to be banned), that's still 25% at most.

What? Use Pit? Heh. Then I win the argument that Pit is top tier. People in the Advance Wars community originally had said to use Sturm to fight Sturm. And we know Sturm is the most balanced character in the series......wait. Marathon Recons? That's just insane. Just like the repeated shots that cause flinching again and again even when you're at 0%.

he doesn't have many options.
once you are up close he gets zoned rather badly.
want to know how to get past the arrow spam? Short hopped air dodges.
Shielding then moving forward.
Jumping.

You know, basic stuff.

Also DDD and ROB are not top tier. There is no justification for them to be.

DDD and ROB are harder to approach because they don't get zoned up close and ahve the means to continously push you back.

Pit has enough options when his opponent can't react, which IS going to happen.

And short-hopped air dodges don't work. I already tried to air dodge and I get shot just as I begin my jumps.

As for zoning, WTF? I self-impose B-ban my Pit because of the arrow spam. He is still viable. His arrows bring the opponent up to kill range easy, instead of being the kill moves you probably think I'm implying they are.

By the way, I think Dedede is top tier solely because of CG shenanigans, to be honest. ROB, however, is probably there simply for being overpowered for a guy who has very high longevity on his own on top of an insane recovery.

how to effectively get past arrows, 101

absorb with lucas/ness, and GaW
reflect with pit, wolf, falco, fox, ROB, mario ( i know im missing some)
go under with sonic(spins), olimar, (down tilt) lucario, luigi, pika, squirtle, snake, kirby, puff, (run than crouch and repeat) GaW, i feel like im missing some here too
counter with lucario, ike, and marth.

it doesnt suck by a long shot, but its nowhere near infalible either

For the love of--please stop with the character specific stuff. And crouching? Right. Because Pit can't control his arrows and shoot you down while you're PERFORMING AIR ATTACKS AND HAS NO REASON NOT TO BE ABLE TO HIT YOU WHILE YOU'RE ON THE GROUND.

Lol, R.O.B. doing bad against arrow spam. All you do is walk forward, shield, forward, shield, tilt, get off-stage, f-air, f-air, f-air, laser, game.

Pit is too easy for R.O.B.

NO HE IS NOT! I know from experience.

 

[Dojo]

Wow....
D3 and Rob both COUNTER snake.
I can agree MK can stand in a tier above the rest.
Snake is not on that level. He has counters. He has bad stages.

On top of that of course nothing is ever perfect. That's why they have a select GROUP of the most intelligent smashers who have studied this game for years to be in the SBR. To get the most intelligent outcomes and best general ideas of how this game plays out.

The bottom tier statement made no sense and isn't even relevant to anything being talked about...

 

[AlexX]

Since this topic is so random I'm just going to bring up a totally pointless and irrelevant comparison to keep things interesting, 'kay guys?

In competative play of Advance Wars, only one CO is banned in Days of Ruin: Caulder. In a game where COs generally have a minor affect on the overall match, Caulder breaks this by making the unit he's attached to have 180%/180% attack/defense, making it hit really, really hard and very annoying to kill. His CO zone is also 3 spaces wide, which is relatively large and enough to cover most of the frontlines with ease, giving all units within 160%/160% attack/defense, which is still pretty insane. To top it all off, Caulder heals all units within his CO zone 5 HP every turn. Now, on paper he looks balanced since he has no actual CO power, his CO zone can't grow, and he still has to pay for the repairs, but in practice he is too good.

Having to not build new units for that turn as compensation for repairing all the ones on the front lines is a worthy sacrifice since you don't need new ones if your current ones don't need replacing anytime soon, and the fact his attack and defense boosts are so insane makes it so you have to spend at least 3 times as many units if not more just to get his to the point where they are taking more than they can heal, which leaves you severely weakened by the time Caulder's turn comes up. The only one who might stand a chance against him is Tabitha, the best CO in the game if we don't count Caulder, but even she has problems since her CO zone only affects the unit she is currently attached to and she is incapable of healing herself.

In comparison, MK cannot heal himself, does not make himself deal considerably more damage with each attack, make himself take considerably less damage with each enemy attack, nor give these same powers to nearby allies. Therefore, he is not broken enough to warrent a ban.

 

[DRaGZ]

Let's see how many characters who can do either/both out of 38 (we exclude Pit for obvious reasons). Fox, Falco, Wolf, Ness, Lucas, G&W, Zelda, Mario.....that's still only 8. Even if we consider 33 characters (discount Meta Knight, who is likely to be banned), that's still 25% at most.

What? Use Pit? Heh. Then I win the argument that Pit is top tier. People in the Advance Wars community originally had said to use Sturm to fight Sturm. And we know Sturm is the most balanced character in the series......wait. Marathon Recons? That's just insane. Just like the repeated shots that cause flinching again and again even when you're at 0%.



Pit has enough options when his opponent can't react, which IS going to happen.

And short-hopped air dodges don't work. I already tried to air dodge and I get shot just as I begin my jumps.

As for zoning, WTF? I self-impose B-ban my Pit because of the arrow spam. He is still viable. His arrows bring the opponent up to kill range easy, instead of being the kill moves you probably think I'm implying they are.

By the way, I think Dedede is top tier solely because of CG shenanigans, to be honest. ROB, however, is probably there simply for being overpowered for a guy who has very high longevity on his own on top of an insane recovery.



For the love of--please stop with the character specific stuff. And crouching? Right. Because Pit can't control his arrows and shoot you down while you're PERFORMING AIR ATTACKS AND HAS NO REASON NOT TO BE ABLE TO HIT YOU WHILE YOU'RE ON THE GROUND.



NO HE IS NOT! I know from experience.

Okay, first off, R.O.B. overpowered? R.O.B. has one of the hardest time KOing of any character in this game, nearly all of his best attacks need to be undiminished and thus unabsued to be useful and their knockback still isn't that great.

And yes, Pit really is that easy for R.O.B. as long as R.O.B. keeps Pit out of the short range distance, you're pretty much done.

 

[LeeHarris]

ROB's fair goes through Pit's arrows. Just throwing that out there

Wait, why in the hell are we talking about ROB and Pit?!

The SBR is not the official source nor is anything they say perect.

You're right! We aren't perect! We are perfect though

For one it is obvious that DDD and ROB are NOT at the level snake and Mk are simple as that.
hell if you look at the two they are by themselves in how good they are. can you honestly say DDD and ROb are as good characters as Snake and MK?
No.

Nor is there any sound argument for them to be.

Yes. And here is my sound argument! I hope you're ready to prepare a counter

Let's look at the matchup between D3 and characters he can CG. On your average level, a grab will result in probably 20%-30%. He can end with several options as well. Dtilt on several characters, ftilt on others, etc. He can also do a bthrow which is the strongest throw in the game (18%). He has multiple jumps and he's very hard to punish while recovering(if the player uses him wisely). He has an AMAZING edgeguard game because of his multiple jumps and bair. His dair and uair has ridiculous range and he can full hop them for an auto cancel. Fsmash is unpunishable in many situations and kills light characters easily at 50%. Utilt is an amazingly powerful kill move that comes out on frame... something fast. Can't remember. His grab game alone makes him top tier.

Now for ROB... ROB has a few amazing things going for him. First, his projectiles. The gyro is an amazing projectile that allows ROB to eat at shields, glide toss into a smash/grab, and it is a great edgeguarding tool. Next up is his laser. Recharges very quickly, easy to use, racks up damage. You can choose someone in the feet after poking their shield with a gyro. It is also a great edgeguarding tool, even when it is a super laser. Fsmash and dsmash are both amazingly good. Spotdodge to dsmash is fast enough to hurt any character. Spaced nairs, fairs, ftilts, dtilts, and utilts all have amazing range and very little punishability.

Your turn sucka!

If you agree with them thats fine but that means you also believe there is no bottom tier.

Ok... WHAT

 

[DRaGZ]

Ok... WHAT

I think he is referring to the fact that the SBR has not included a "Bottom" category in their tier list. Lol.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

dragz your exaggerating. Sure ROB isn't the king of KO but he has options. When I think of characters who have real KO issues Pit, Tink, Diddy, Sonic, Yoshi and samus come to my mind first. Rob isn't thst bad at KOing. He has: usmash,fsmash, bthrow, Nair, Bair and h4x edgeguarding...

 

[Deleted member]

Is the SBR's next tier list going to have a bottom tier?

 

[ShadowLink84]

ddd is arguabl better than snake jfyi

Proof?

As is R.O.B., if only because R.O.B. vs. Snake, a R.O.B. will generally win.

Wrong specific matchups don't factor into the tier list.
Overall Snake is that much better than ROb and DDD.
big deal that DDD and ROB can counter Snake, that won't justify them being moved up.

Pit has enough options when his opponent can't react, which IS going to happen.

Everyone has a large amount of options when the opponent cannot react.

And short-hopped air dodges don't work. I already tried to air dodge and I get shot just as I begin my jumps.

Then jump before the arrow leaves the bow

As for zoning, WTF? I self-impose B-ban my Pit because of the arrow spam. He is still viable. His arrows bring the opponent up to kill range easy, instead of being the kill moves you probably think I'm implying they are.

You don't know what zoning is?
Its when the opponent outranges you and you can't do anything.
For example pit cannot really fight someone who has long range tilts and jabs.
It leaves him open to attack. if he pulls out the bow he can be taken advantage of.

By the way, I think Dedede is top tier solely because of CG shenanigans, to be honest. ROB, however, is probably there simply for being overpowered for a guy who has very high longevity on his own on top of an insane recovery.

Stop jerking off to the CG already. its good we know but that doesn't mean WOMG top tier when unlike Snake and MK, his performance is much worse.
Again its a compound of reasons not one specific reason.

Yeah its nice to have a CG but if someone is performing that much better than you, it means there is a gap.

Snake and Mk perform that much better than ROB and DDD.
Their matchups are also overall that much better.
Therefore why should ROB and DDD be up with them if Snake and MK are clearly that much better?

Wow....
D3 and Rob both COUNTER snake.
I can agree MK can stand in a tier above the rest.
Snake is not on that level. He has counters. He has bad stages.[/qute]
...
Specific matchups do not matter. Just because Sonic counters MK doesn't automatically mean Sonic should be top tier. Specific matchups are completely irrelevant.

Tier lists are overall comparisons.
if you look at Snake, DDD and ROB of those three Snake performs better than the two by a noticeable degree.

Stages, tournament performance, matchups overall Snake does that much better than DDD and ROB.
big deal ROB and Snake counter him that is NOT enough justification to move them up.

On top of that of course nothing is ever perfect. That's why they have a select GROUP of the most intelligent smashers who have studied this game for years to be in the SBR. To get the most intelligent outcomes and best general ideas of how this game plays out.

That is poor justification.
just because I have an IQ of 300 and study mathematics for over 50 years of my life does not mean that what i say will be correct.
All it means is that I am smart and that I have experience.

What matters most if the factual evidence that is presented.
When you look at the evidence presented that justifies DDD and ROb's placement on the tier list you'll find that compared to the evidence for Snake they are lacking.
They do NOT have the evidence to be placed in top tier.
Their placements numerically isn't an issue.
The placement of them plateau wise is the issue.

again just because the SBR has the best doesn't mean what they say is the best.

The bottom tier statement made no sense and isn't even relevant to anything being talked about...

I anticipated what you would say about the SBR (everyone says it) so I am questioning you.
if you believe that what the SBR says is true that means you believe that what all they say is true because they have the best within their ranks.

This would mean that what they placed before you (lack of bottom tier and a number of other things) is completely fine by you.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Since this topic is so random I'm just going to bring up a totally pointless and irrelevant comparison to keep things interesting, 'kay guys?

In competative play of Advance Wars, only one CO is banned in Days of Ruin: Caulder. In a game where COs generally have a minor affect on the overall match, Caulder breaks this by making the unit he's attached to have 180%/180% attack/defense, making it hit really, really hard and very annoying to kill. His CO zone is also 3 spaces wide, which is relatively large and enough to cover most of the frontlines with ease, giving all units within 160%/160% attack/defense, which is still pretty insane. To top it all off, Caulder heals all units within his CO zone 5 HP every turn. Now, on paper he looks balanced since he has no actual CO power, his CO zone can't grow, and he still has to pay for the repairs, but in practice he is too good.

Having to not build new units for that turn as compensation for repairing all the ones on the front lines is a worthy sacrifice since you don't need new ones if your current ones don't need replacing anytime soon, and the fact his attack and defense boosts are so insane makes it so you have to spend at least 3 times as many units if not more just to get his to the point where they are taking more than they can heal, which leaves you severely weakened by the time Caulder's turn comes up. The only one who might stand a chance against him is Tabitha, the best CO in the game if we don't count Coulder, but even she has problems since her CO zone only affects the unit she is currently attached to and she is incapable of healing herself.

In comparison, MK cannot heal himself, does not make himself deal considerably more damage with each attack, make himself take considerably less damage with each enemy attack, nor give these same powers to nearby allies. Therefore, he is not broken enough to warrent a ban.

Fascinating. One problem though: I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT DAYS OF RUIN! I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST THREE GAMES RELEASED STATESIDE! (Yes, there were games in the franchise released before Advance Wars.) Sturm can't heal his units except with the standard ways and he's broken enough that he makes the COs called the Broken Trio look like jokes. And guess what? The Broken Trio AND Sensei and (debatably) post-AW1 Kanbei are still broken.

Which is my point. Pit is still top tier material with arrow spam even if Meta Knight was equivalent to Caulder. (And honestly, we can compare Meta Knight to Caulder in a way: he may have low weight and high fall speed, allowing for low percentages deaths to balance him on paper, but if we can't hit him, what's the point of exploiting that.)

Okay, first off, R.O.B. overpowered? R.O.B. has one of the hardest time KOing of any character in this game, nearly all of his best attacks need to be undiminished and thus unabsued to be useful and their knockback still isn't that great.

And yes, Pit really is that easy for R.O.B. as long as R.O.B. keeps Pit out of the short range distance, you're pretty much done.

ROB is still overpowered. He still kills at medium percentages with certain moves. They may be a bit telegraphed, but most clean hits are going to be.

And if ROB keeps away from Pit, he gets..wait for it......SHOT BY ARROWS! He's not gonna be a firein' his laz0r.

ROB's fair goes through Pit's arrows. Just throwing that out there

I tried that, it didn't work.

 

[DRaGZ]

dragz your exaggerating. Sure ROB isn't the king of KO but he has options. When I think of characters who have real KO issues Pit, Tink, Diddy, Sonic, Yoshi and samus come to my mind first. Rob isn't thst bad at KOing. He has: usmash,fsmash, bthrow, Nair, Bair and h4x edgeguarding...

Edgeguarding is gimping, that's another issue.

Up-smash is very difficult to hit unless you're in a particular situation or you're playing Wario.

F-smash is a very weak killer. The opponent needs to be up to at least 150% to ensure it'll kill.

N-air needs to be saved up, but unfortunately a lot of R.O.B. ***** it out.

B-air is best for an edge-guard kill. It, too, isn't as strong as one would think.

Also, "specific match-ups don't play into the tier list"? Looool.

And f-airs definitely go through arrow. You're just doing it wrong.

 

[AlexX]

This would mean that what they placed before you (lack of bottom tier and a number of other things) is completely fine by you.

Just because there's no bottom-tier doesn't mean the characters in low tier don't suck. Advance Wars: Days of Ruin (yes, I know it's not a fighting game, but bear with me) has no bottom tier, but Will and Tasha still suck far worse than any of the other COs.

 

[wangston]

It's hard to believe but some people post on this topic just to get there post count up. Who on earth would do such a thing. It makes me sick thinking about it. Ban meta knight some time this year.

 

[AlexX]

Fascinating. One problem though: I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT DAYS OF RUIN! I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST THREE GAMES RELEASED STATESIDE! (Yes, there were games in the franchise released before Advance Wars.)

Woah, you mean someone actually posted something related to AW before me? I honestly just came in and posted that entirely as a joke... I didn't seriously think someone had brought it up already.

(And I'm fully aware of the history of the Nintendo Wars series, thank you very much...)

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yay leeharris responded its a post of its own.

You're right! We aren't perect! We are perfect though

Grammatical nitpicking?
Tsk tsk.

You are human. Humans are imperfect.
you are human therefore you are imperfect.

Yes. And here is my sound argument! I hope you're ready to prepare a counter

I hope not to disappointed.

Let's look at the matchup between D3 and characters he can CG. On your average level, a grab will result in probably 20%-30%. He can end with several options as well. Dtilt on several characters, ftilt on others, etc. He can also do a bthrow which is the strongest throw in the game (18%). He has multiple jumps and he's very hard to punish while recovering(if the player uses him wisely). He has an AMAZING edgeguard game because of his multiple jumps and bair. His dair and uair has ridiculous range and he can full hop them for an auto cancel. Fsmash is unpunishable in many situations and kills light characters easily at 50%. Utilt is an amazingly powerful kill move that comes out on frame... something fast. Can't remember. His grab game alone makes him top tier.

This does not answer what I demanded.
this only lists his characteristics of which I know already.

I am asking for the justification of him being on the same level as MK and Snake.
A comparison if you will.

I can list all of Sonic's capabilities but that does not justify anything.
I am asking for the extent to which he performs in comparison to Snake and MK.
Not his capabilities.
All that does is list his capabilities that does not say anything about how well he does overall compared to the other characters.


How well does he do overall?
For example matchup wise.

Compared to Snake and MK how many advantages does he have. TO what extent are the advantages?
What are the disadvantages? To what extent are the disadvantages.
Compared to MK and Snake are they greater, lesser, even? Are they noticeably lesser or greater.

This is the same for ROB.
What about tournament wise?
how about gameplay? How safe is he in comparison?

Your turn sucka!

You didn't provide justification though only characteristics.
i want a comparison.

Ok... WHAT

just wait.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Proof?

The best grab in the entire game, a spammable projectle, heavy weight, good recovery, amazing edgeguarding, insane KO power, ridicoulus range (lol ftilt), overpowered tilts.
He also has better match-up's vs Top tiers than Snake

 

[ShadowLink84]

Just because there's no bottom-tier doesn't mean the characters in low tier don't suck. Advance Wars: Days of Ruin (yes, I know it's not a fighting game, but bear with me) has no bottom tier, but Will and Tasha still suck far worse than any of the other COs.

I am not saying low tier characters don't suck.

The degree to how much they suck is important though.
Ganondorf and Captain Falcon just perform that much worse than everyone else hence why they get to be in bottom tier.

The best grab in the entire game, a spammable projectle, heavy weight, good recovery, amazing edgeguarding, insane KO power, ridicoulus range (lol ftilt), overpowered tilts.
He also has better match-up's vs Top tiers than Snake

The last sentence I'll address in a bit
Is his performance equal to Snake or is it noticeably lesser?

I don't care for characteristics I already know that.

tier lists represent overall performance not characeristics so why do people keep listing them?

Do DDD and ROb have the justification to say they perform as well as Snake and MK?

ugh You know what let me take the first shot instead since maybe It is unclear.

the last part o your sentence.

let me just start things off instead since it seems I am unclear in what I am asking or.

 

[DRaGZ]

I don't think its justified to assume that a character is the same level as another character in the same tier.

I mean, a major point of this thread is that Meta Knight is much higher than the second-highest guy on the list, Snake, and he's just "top tier".

 

[Master Knight DH]

Woah, you mean someone actually posted something related to AW before me? I honestly just came in and posted that entirely as a joke... I didn't seriously think someone had brought it up already.

(And I'm fully aware of the history of the Nintendo Wars series, thank you very much...)

What? You didn't notice? Let me Quote myself:

What? Use Pit? Heh. Then I win the argument that Pit is top tier. People in the Advance Wars community originally had said to use Sturm to fight Sturm. And we know Sturm is the most balanced character in the series......wait. Marathon Recons? That's just insane. Just like the repeated shots that cause flinching again and again even when you're at 0%.

(Yeah, you never fight Sturm on maps with any semblance of healthy terrain.)

I used Sturm as an example because he came up especially with the Broken Trio around. I'm glad I did, Caulder is indeed broken beyond belief.

Oh, by the way, for those wondering, Grit has 80% firepower for most of his units (the direct-fire ones) and he's, yep, a Broken Trio member.

 

[AlexX]

I am not saying low tier characters don't suck.

The degree to how much they suck is important though.
Ganondorf and Captain Falcon just perform that much worse than everyone else hence why they get to be in bottom tier.

Will and Tasha also perform that much worse than everyone else, but they still share a tier with Penny (though I personally think she deserves mid-tier... but that's another argument for another day).

What? You didn't notice? Let me Quote myself:

No, I honestly didn't... I just clicked the topic and posted. I'm sorry.

(Yeah, you never fight Sturm on maps with any semblance of healthy terrain.)

I'm fully aware how broken Sturm is, but I brought up Caulder since DoR has (relatively) better balance than the other AW games and is the newest.

 

[Excellence]

Proof?

How about the fact that King Dedede can chaingrab Snake to Hell and R.O.B. so vastly outcamps Snake it's ridiculous.

Wrong specific matchups don't factor into the tier list.
Overall Snake is that much better than ROb and DDD.
big deal that DDD and ROB can counter Snake, that won't justify them being moved up.

How do you, someone who is not in the SBR, know what gets factored into the Tier List? Even if specific match-ups didn't get factored into the Tier List, because R.O.B. and King Dedede can counter and effectively deal with a large portion of the cast while not having severly disadvantageous match-ups themselves, they are in High Tier. Why do you think Ness is so low on the Tier List? Because he can be grab-release smashed by just about every character and their grandmother.

Stop jerking off to the CG already. its good we know but that doesn't mean WOMG top tier when unlike Snake and MK, his performance is much worse.

Again its a compound of reasons not one specific reason.

Yeah its nice to have a CG but if someone is performing that much better than you, it means there is a gap.

Snake and Mk perform that much better than ROB and DDD.
Their matchups are also overall that much better.
Therefore why should ROB and DDD be up with them if Snake and MK are clearly that much better?

It's not so much the fact that King Dedede can chaingrab that makes him top tier, it's how effective it is and the number of options he has once his chaingrab is through. A chaingrab that can easily rack up 40% is a big deal in a game where every percent matters.

Snake and Meta Knight perform better than King Dedede in certain situations and areas. Apparently you don't get the reason for some characters being above others. In case you didn't know, Meta Knight is number one and Snake is number two. Both R.O.B. and King Dedede have been placed below them.

...
Specific matchups do not matter. Just because Sonic counters MK doesn't automatically mean Sonic should be top tier. Specific matchups are completely irrelevant.

Tier lists are overall comparisons.
if you look at Snake, DDD and ROB of those three Snake performs better than the two by a noticeable degree.

Stages, tournament performance, matchups overall Snake does that much better than DDD and ROB.
big deal ROB and Snake counter him that is NOT enough justification to move them up.


That is poor justification.
just because I have an IQ of 300 and study mathematics for over 50 years of my life does not mean that what i say will be correct.
All it means is that I am smart and that I have experience.

What matters most if the factual evidence that is presented.
When you look at the evidence presented that justifies DDD and ROb's placement on the tier list you'll find that compared to the evidence for Snake they are lacking.
They do NOT have the evidence to be placed in top tier.
Their placements numerically isn't an issue.
The placement of them plateau wise is the issue.

again just because the SBR has the best doesn't mean what they say is the best.

I anticipated what you would say about the SBR (everyone says it) so I am questioning you.
if you believe that what the SBR says is true that means you believe that what all they say is true because they have the best within their ranks.

This would mean that what they placed before you (lack of bottom tier and a number of other things) is completely fine by you.

Lol. Nice bull****ting.