The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Crackle]

that is the worst argument in this whole debate. Guys if we wait 40 years just maybe maybe we can find a counter for MK so don't ban him now.

The only way to find a counter against MK will be to find a strength for another character because like I've said MK has no weaknesses. The counter can still be found if MK is banned.

Temporary ban as an experiment, or let's watch Italy.

That's my proposal.

Also, checking the boards of Japanese and European Smashers, and asking for incite on this debate would probably go a long way.

Problem is who will do that?!

Note: Italy Smashers have banned Meta Knight from tournaments already, if the smashboards thread that said so wasn't a lie that is.

 

[Reaperman64]

just because we havent found it doesnt mean it doesnt exist

from an ike perspective he has strength and knockback, could these with the right level of skill beat mk? we dont know cause there is no way we can find two equally skilled opponents

personally id pick wolf as his counter but thats just me

 

[XienZo]

then i will do what i can untill i can do no more

seriously though nothing is unbeatable, games dont work like that. i could refer to the GOW example here but anyone whos played knows it

As great as Japan is, they don't have a government organization that makes sure that games aren't overly unbalanced or anything(Lol, Federal Game Balancing Administration). Its perfectly possible that they make a game thats unbalanced and only sells well due to massive fanbase and success of previous games.

Temporary ban as an experiment, or let's watch Italy.

That's my proposal.

Also, checking the boards of Japanese and European Smashers, and asking for incite on this debate would probably go a long way.

Problem is who will do that?!

Note: Italy Smashers have banned Meta Knight from tournaments already, if the smashboards thread that said so wasn't a lie that is.

Apparently, that was just a thread on an italian version of smashboards saying "we SHOULD ban MK" and some guy just mistranslated it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

and we shouldnt ban something just cause we cant beat it

this is EXACTLY why you ban things

The burden of proof lies in the accuser. It's up to you to prove why banning him is appropriate.

All arguments for an immediate ban have been shot down, however, arguments for an eventual ban are not out of the question having validity to them.
The Match-ups argument have been disproven by the fact other games have had much worse characters with more favorable match up, but kept them legal. Hell MK has four neutral match-ups, trusting the match-up thread. I trust DanGR match-up thread due to the fact both boards, citing a reliable match-up thread, have to agree and if disagreement is found the match-up is taken down off the list.

MK is the best choice for a safe pick, he is not the most full proof.

someone lied to you, and stop trusting that thread.
also, yea, he kinda is fool proof

then i will do what i can untill i can do no more

seriously though nothing is unbeatable, games dont work like that. i could refer to the GOW example here but anyone whos played knows it

you dont play many games, do you?

 

[Crackle]

As great as Japan is, they don't have a government organization that makes sure that games aren't overly unbalanced or anything(Lol, Federal Game Balancing Administration). Its perfectly possible that they make a game thats unbalanced and only sells well due to massive fanbase and success of previous games.

Agreed, games and other manufactured items simply may be faulty or imbalanced.

 

[Reaperman64]

fine time for the Gow argument....

there are many gow techs that have arisen that at the time seemed unbeatable and were called for removal in patches however ridiculous that is but in time they over came this (active sniper was the first i belive)

ive never come across anygame where using a certain, non glitch attack will result in 100% succes

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Temporary ban as an experiment, or let's watch Italy.

That's my proposal.

Also, checking the boards of Japanese and European Smashers, and asking for incite on this debate would probably go a long way.

Problem is who will do that?!

Note: Italy Smashers have banned Meta Knight from tournaments already, if the smashboards thread that said so wasn't a lie that is.

It wasn't a lie it was a misunderstanding. All they did was open up a pol on it and the verdict was that MK should be banned but he isn't really.

just because we havent found it doesnt mean it doesnt exist

from an ike perspective he has strength and knockback, could these with the right level of skill beat mk? we dont know cause there is no way we can find two equally skilled opponents

personally id pick wolf as his counter but thats just me

It's not enough ok. The only thinkg you know about Ike is that he's strong. Everyone knows that speed > strength.

Also Ike is a punisher with MK's lag less moves he doesn't have a chance to land his super slow super strong attacks.

You should learn what characters actually do before you say your going to pick them as counters wolf is at a disadvantage. The only close to neutral match ups are Snake, Marth, and like Diddy in FD but they are all at a disadvantage anyways even if its a slight one.

btw I am probably in the top 5 Ike's in Texas and according to some people the best so you might want to consider that I have more experience in this Ike vs MK thing than just speculations from friendlies.

 

[XienZo]

just because we havent found it doesnt mean it doesnt exist

from an ike perspective he has strength and knockback, could these with the right level of skill beat mk? we dont know cause there is no way we can find two equally skilled opponents

personally id pick wolf as his counter but thats just me

The skill levels tend to level out near the Pros, and they're discovering that MKs do beat most other characters. Except Azen, but thats because he IS a Lucario, and thats hax.

And MK DOES have a disadvantageous matchup. Its Olimar on Shadow Moses Island. Unban it and us Olimars will save the metagame... and then destroy it later. Lolz

 

[RoboticTuna]

I find it funny how people with like, ten posts or less are coming in here and ignoring the entire debate we've been having the past 300 ish pages.

Course, reading 300 pages of posts is a bit difficult. I don't think you can reasonably expect people to do that...

I'd like to see Metaknight get restricted in some form because in my opinion he is very strong, with few real counters, and that's not a good thing. I don't know if I would want him outright banned (I wouldn't be happy if they banned my legitimately favorite character, heh), but restrictions on his use would be a nice thing, I think.


Yeah, as far as Ike goes, I doubt you'd even be able to land one attack against Metaknight's WARP SPEED attacks, and the Tornado isn't exactly helping you either.

@ an earlier post
Games can have factions, characters, or w/e that give a nigh-undefeatable advantage to one player if his opponent is of equal skill. While there is always the chance that the player at a disadvantage can still win, the other player has a HUGE advantage and as such while it's not an unbeatable matchup, it's still nearly that bad.

 

[Razmakazi]

screw this, i'll just go play the new Soul Calibur and pick Kilik.

;o

 

[Reaperman64]

thats the job i want, playing video games saying yup i can beat this, sell it :D

 

[Crackle]

fine time for the Gow argument....

there are many gow techs that have arisen that at the time seemed unbeatable and were called for removal in patches however ridiculous that is but in time they over came this (active sniper was the first i belive)

ive never come across anygame where using a certain, non glitch attack will result in 100% succes

The Active Sniper is beaten in that game by being BETTER WITH AN ACTIVE SNIPER.

I played that game pretty well and I must say it was the easiest crap I've seen ever make it to MLG. Everyone just turned a corner and active-sniped each other, no one hardly went for any other weapon.

And it's not like it's hard to no scope in that game either, which is all the more ridiculous and spammy.

You need to worship less ignorant arguments and games my friend.

 

[Reaperman64]

burrito can i play you then would be a great honour:D

also i picked wolf as a counter cause hes got a nice balance of speed and power, plus his attacks can come out of nowhere

 

[Crackle]

Reaper you're one of the most sig-worthy players I've seen posting on these forums.

 

[XienZo]

burrito can i play you then would be a great honour:D

also i picked wolf as a counter cause hes got a nice balance of speed and power, plus his attacks can come out of nowhere

But what are you going to do off stage?
Best gimper + one of the worst recovery char=close your eyes.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

*sigh* I'm going to go ahead and nominate reaperman as brinboy the II.

 

[Reaperman64]

ASing in Gow is far from perfect, cause unless you dont see it comming then its pretty easy to dodge and the shotgunners are laughable, pistol whip em:D

 

[XienZo]

Well, I think he's actually just ignorant, and we just have to show him what the metagame is like.

 

[Crackle]

ASing in Gow is far from perfect, cause unless you dont see it comming then its pretty easy to dodge and the shotgunners are laughable, pistol whip em:D

Off-topic, and Pistol whipping a one-shot-close-range-kill Active Reloaded weapon is what's laughable to try.

You have to play very bad players for it to work.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I don't think he has a desire to learn though. From the looks of it he just signed up on these boards to argue the MK ban topic with out ever going to a tournament and just basing his opinions off friendly FFA with items on.

 

[Reaperman64]

i doubt sig worthy is a good thing *sigh*

congrats youve started hating me at the lowest posts beating ign by about half

 

[Crackle]

Sorry bud, no hate just disagreement.

And it's sig-worthy as in signature, not shooting with a SIG. Just to clear that up xD

 

[Reaperman64]

meh the mk ban was completely unknown to me an hour ago, however i do find it interesting arguing a point like this, psychology is my hobby

 

[da K.I.D.]

screw this, i'll just go play the new Soul Calibur and pick Kilik.

;o

back off my boy, ive been playing him since SC1

 

[Praxis]

just because people can't find a counter [which is a dumb reason, he has neutrals, it's not like he is unstoppable]..

Your post fails as soon as we hit this.

It's pretty much agreed upon that MK has no neutrals. Snake might *debateably* be neutral but I think it's being put at 55:45 MK's favor.

Unless by "he has neutrals" you mean another MK.

 

[Reaperman64]

You guys still up for a match up then?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

someone lied to you, and stop trusting that thread.

I trust people who play the characters and contribute to both character boards on the match-up more than half the crap people have been saying in this thread.

That or people don't think 45-55 is neutral

also, yea, he kinda is fool proof

lol, no.

He has no bad match-ups, but he has plenty of neutral match-ups. He has few stages he stages he doesn't play well or as good on, Final destination, Yoshi's Island.

He's a good choice, not full proof.

 

[Crackle]

I hatez the wifiz

The Character Boards really are the best bet for information as far as this debate goes.
If there really is no counter then I think all bets are off in the banners' favor.

 

[AlAxe]

burrito can i play you then would be a great honour:D

also i picked wolf as a counter cause hes got a nice balance of speed and power, plus his attacks can come out of nowhere

Actually Ganondorf is a great MK counter because he's heavy and Warlock punch kills MK at like 20%. You see guys, we just solved the problem by working together. YAY.

 

[Reaperman64]

come on may aswell, try to beat the stupid out of me as ign boards put it

 

[GofG]

meh the mk ban was completely unknown to me an hour ago, however i do find it interesting arguing a point like this, psychology is my hobby

Reaperman64, we don't mean to be mean.

Smashboards has a long history of playing competitive Smash. We know what we're doing, we know what we're talking about, and we understand fighting games very well. We aren't your average beat-all-your-friends gamers. We go across the country to compete in national tournaments, and we do well in them. We know this game inside and out. Every individual aspect of it, every minuscule detail, the minutiae of unimportant knowledge... we all grasp each and every piece of it. We have a feel for the game that goes beyond anything you have probably ever imagined.

You have stumbled into something that you don't understand, and probably won't unless you change your attitude.

If you want to understand the game as we do, start participating! Go to some tournaments. I'm sure there's a Smash scene in your area. See if you can attend some biweeklies or something. Meet up with some guys, have a Smashfest, as they're known. Play people who are much better than you. You'll get good, fast.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I trust people who play the characters and contribute to both character boards on the match-up more than half the crap people have been saying in this thread.

That or people don't think 45-55 is neutral



lol, no.

He has no bad match-ups, but he has plenty of neutral match-ups. He has few stages he stages he doesn't play well or as good on, Final destination, Yoshi's Island.

He's a good choice, not full proof.

A lot of people don't consider 45-55 neutral because its still an up hill battle and not everyone agrees on them being 45-55. MK doesn't have stages he doesn't do well on he just has stages he doesn't do amazingly god like on.

So he is full proof since there is nothing to bring him into a disadvantage.

 

[Crackle]

Does Smashboards frown upon random comments like "I like pie?"

Just asking, and just so my post seems relevant I'll say this:

I don't like Meta Knight pie.

 

[Reaperman64]

I really have stumbled onto something far too powerful too understand...

ive only done tourney rules since last yearand thats only cause i want to compete in tourneys when im old enough to travel, cant stand it personally but hey
the next stage of tourney prep would be to fight players who actually play in tourneys via wifi hene why i started here

 

[Crackle]

I really have stumbled onto something far too powerful too understand...

ive only done tourney rules since last yearand thats only cause i want to compete in tourneys when im old enough to travel, cant stand it personally but hey
the next stage of tourney prep would be to fight players who actually play in tourneys via wifi hene why i started here

Well many people consider Wifi a joke since lag may or may not cancel your movements ingame regardless of whether you pressed a button multiple times or not.

 

[GofG]

WiFi? Isn't that only in Brawl?

You aren't talking about Melee?

Get the **** out, scrub.

 

[Crackle]

WiFi? Isn't that only in Brawl?

You aren't talking about Melee?

Get the **** out, scrub.

This is a Brawl thread, what are you coming in here with that crap for D:

 

[adumbrodeus]

Well the decent through poor Meta Knight players are generally easy to take on with Snake, but certainly not the well-practiced ones.

As for Marth I actually can see that being a quite Neutral Matchup, save for the possible gimping Meta Knight can pull off.

Totally wrong.

Marth suffers worse then a lot of characters, it's a 65-35 match-up.

Pick Yoshi.

 

[Mew2King]

ummm, after i barely beat chillins snake at a NJ tourney with mk, he picked corneria, and if i went DDD he would just CG / camp me with falco, and if i stayed MK he would just pick snake and kill me fast. So he went snake and beat me 1 stock low %, leaving me to BARELY win the 3rd game on delphino last stock 150. DSF also says snake has a big advantage on norfair if you camp well

 

[Reaperman64]

why get out of here scrub?

plus nope im snowed under with college work and i dont think wales has a progamer scene.

wifi bestows the same disadv on everyone so its kinda fair, plus everyone i know that plays has already been conquered