The official SBR tier list: Marth discussion

[Ryan-K]

it could also be before....again it's not instant although it seems it

 

[e__]

I personally think that Marth should be at least 5th. His general match ups are mostly positive while characters like falco who have quite a few neutrals, while Marth has less bad matchups, and he'd be tied for 6th or 5th on the rankings list if not for Wario, who somehow reached third with only 32 entries while every other character in that ranking has around double that.

 

[M@v]

about marth vs falco in tier lists...

I still think falco has a slight edge, but its close. Falcos cg-> gattling combo can take most characters anywhere from 35-65 without an issue. Besides his crazy dair meteor, he has slightly more trouble killing than most. Blaster is very spammable. This is another reason I think hes higher than marth, he has a projectile, marth doesnt. either way, marth and falco are really good.

 

[Nibbity]

Eh, Wario's moves are all kinda wierd like that, his down smash is also sort of a good example because he keeps the attack constantly going so you can't sidestep it, but i'm very very sure you can B up it. Being unfamiliar to a Wario is bad because he's unpredictable in that sense of timing.

 

[Nibbity]

about marth vs falco in tier lists...

I still think falco has a slight edge, but its close. Falcos cg-> gattling combo can take most characters anywhere from 35-65 without an issue. Besides his crazy dair meteor, he has slightly more trouble killing than most. Blaster is very spammable. This is another reason I think hes higher than marth, he has a projectile, marth doesnt. either way, marth and falco are really good.

up B? That's one of the great things Marth has on Falco for sure, so long as falco doesn't fake him out and it works. The blaster also depends. For most falcos, I see a SH into two blasters in air and then some on land, which requires a SH air dodge, and then you're within good range. You're right, Falco and Marth is pretty close for sure though, Falco has the longe range aspect over marth, and his recovery is extremely hard to gimp.

 

[Ryan-K]

Eh, Wario's moves are all kinda wierd like that, his down smash is also sort of a good example because he keeps the attack constantly going so you can't sidestep it, but i'm very very sure you can B up it. Being unfamiliar to a Wario is bad because he's unpredictable in that sense of timing.

if you shield it once it loses its hitbox

that's just matchup inexperience :/ he's not that unpredictable once you play against him a few times.

edit: wario is third are you serious lmfao the sbr is a ****ing joke, thats the most asinine thing ive heard

 

[Zankoku]

Since when was Wario third? He's third on my RANKINGS LIST because of Axis screwing everything over. The TIER LIST likes to say something completely different.

 

[adumbrodeus]

They have similar styles, but MK has a more powerful moveset backing him up as well as better attributes.

Which was pretty much the point that I was getting across with the "MK is better at being Marth" comment. They have similar movesets, but Marth isn't backed up by as good a moveset.

However, this means that they share a lot of advantageous match-ups... MK just tends to do better with them.

MK also has attacks that have almost no lag (Dsmash) that can kill, and some of his moves have great knockback (Up-B as you are making the loop). you can also glide with MK, and his Dtilt has better range and he is a better gimper and has a better recovery.

Which is why he's the better character, I didn't say they were exactly the same, I just said they were overall similar.

 

[ZHMT]

Im pretty happy where they have Marth is this Tier List. Theres nothing wrong with Top of High Tier, thats pretty much where he was most of Melee anyways and we never complained. We all know if it wasnt for MK Marth would be sitting up in top with Snake and Gaw.

Falco and ROB belong right below Marth though <<

Anyways, it just makes us look better if we beat a MK or Snake ^_^

 

[BacklashMarth]

Im pretty happy where they have Marth is this Tier List. Theres nothing wrong with Top of High Tier, thats pretty much where he was most of Melee anyways and we never complained. We all know if it wasnt for MK Marth would be sitting up in top with Snake and Gaw.

Falco and ROB belong right below Marth though <<

Anyways, it just makes us look better if we beat a MK or Snake ^_^

U know what, he has a point there. Beating someone with MK isnt all that amazing to me now especially with all that he has going for him. Now beating MK with someone not in Top tier, that is somewhat incredible. We should find resolution in the fact that we can play the underdog and score serious pwnage points if we win.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Im pretty happy where they have Marth is this Tier List. Theres nothing wrong with Top of High Tier, thats pretty much where he was most of Melee anyways and we never complained. We all know if it wasnt for MK Marth would be sitting up in top with Snake and Gaw.

Falco and ROB belong right below Marth though <<

Anyways, it just makes us look better if we beat a MK or Snake ^_^

Well, he shouldn't be at the top of high tier, DDD, G&W, and probably Snake should be ahead of him.

His overall placement should be number 5, not 7. That's the issue.


It's not because he's my main that I say this, I don't care where he REALLY is. I just care that he's not where he really should be.

 

[ZHMT]

Well, he shouldn't be at the top of high tier, DDD, G&W, and probably Snake should be ahead of him.

His overall placement should be number 5, not 7. That's the issue.


It's not because he's my main that I say this, I don't care where he REALLY is. I just care that he's not where he really should be.

Thats what I meant really. If it wasnt for MK then Marth would be among Snake and Dedede, not above them, just closer.

 

[BacklashMarth]

I heard it said here many times that if not for MK marth would b a lot higher on the tier list. But that concept sorta goes right over my head. That is like saying the reason Snake is top tier is because MK is in the game. Whatever makes Snake top tier should have little to do with MK's spot in the tier list. If MK is removed from the list then every one should logically just move up one spot correct? Im open to explanation.

 

[ZHMT]

I heard it said here many times that if not for MK marth would b a lot higher on the tier list. But that concept sorta goes right over my head. That is like saying the reason Snake is top tier is because MK is in the game. Whatever makes Snake top tier should have little to do with MK's spot in the tier list. If MK is removed from the list then every one should logically just move up one spot correct? Im open to explanation.

Marth is simply outclassed by Metaknight. The very things that Marth can do to top tier characters, MK usually does better. Basically if MK and Snake were both Banned, the tiers would shift simply completely. They wouldnt just be taken out of the list and everything else remain unchanged.

 

[Darxmarth23]

i think the reason marth is 1 below r.o.b is because ken lost to cpu.ken was one of our best players too.i also belive that rob is not that higher than marth, so its not a huge gap.and no, im not hating on rob.hes a good char.

 

[VietGeek]

i think the reason marth is 1 below r.o.b is because ken lost to cpu.ken was one of our best players too.i also belive that rob is not that higher than marth, so its not a huge gap.and no, im not hating on rob.hes a good char.

Nah, one battle can't dictate a tier list. It just doesn't work like that.

ROB can be below Marth, but really, ROB can't be above since I'm pretty sure his MK match-up is gayer than Marth's, and Marth has no hard counters either. Other than tournament results (and even then, hasn't Marth placed high more consistently than ROB?), Marth should take ROB's spot at the very least.

I'm content if Marth stays where he is though. He'll be like the Captain Falcon of this game. A force to be reckon with regardless of the fact that he isn't the "Top 5."

Actually, yeah, let's keep his position there for massive lulz.

/sarcasm

Get pumped, we're going to **** this tier list.

/moar sarcasm

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Marth among Snake and DDD? That's just not thinking enough.



I main Marth, he's my favorite. He is a solid *** character with a ****load of options.



(That's where it stops)



Outside of his Up-b he doesn't have any abuseable gaurentees like a DDD chaingrab, a Snake any tilt + ability to projectile camp and broken *** weight, or a MK anything-he-does.



Marth is hella good, I don't know why people are even complaining about his spot. It's not like anyone complaining is ****** a lot and feels it is due to Marth's character design (even if you were who cares rofl).



GW is definitely better than Marth imo, Falco and R.O.B aren't (also imo) but I feel I'm a bit biased since I don't know **** about the other characters.

 

[VietGeek]

I wasn't really arguing that he'd fit into top tier when MK, Snake, and D3 are alongisde him, but that ROB and Falco being above him doesn't make too much sense.

Personally, I would've preferred they kept Snake and MK on their own separate tier (or even just MK) since the other characters just don't quite compare.

I'm assuming they did not due to how people some of this stuff a little bit too seriously. Mk/Snake in their own tier would advocate the popular opinion that they ARE a little bit too broken.

Still Neo, it's kinda of a first draft. We know who the top echelon characters of Brawl are, now it's simply refining the lower tiers and the precise order of the high tiers, which will prove difficult, or fruitless if the tier history of Melee is repeated through Brawl in a sense of speaking.

 

[Emblem Lord]

For the record only MK, Snake and G&W are top IMO.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I heard it said here many times that if not for MK marth would b a lot higher on the tier list. But that concept sorta goes right over my head. That is like saying the reason Snake is top tier is because MK is in the game. Whatever makes Snake top tier should have little to do with MK's spot in the tier list. If MK is removed from the list then every one should logically just move up one spot correct? Im open to explanation.

Not really, unless a character isn't tournament viable, there very existence hurts the ability of what they counter to continue in tournament play. If they counter characters that give their counters trouble, then their counters are considerably assisted by their mere presence.

As an example, think about when Snake countered Mk (aka, MKs hadn't discovered not to "jump into the ****"), we didn't even think anything had a good match-up against Snake. Yet, now we discover that he has weaknesses to several characters. The problem is, most MK has a good match-up on, so MKs eliminated them all, and then Snake eliminated MK, resulting in Snake taking most tournaments.


Those counters are still there however, and were MK gone, they'd be a lot more viable. This would mean that the characters that were countered would be weakened considerably in standings.

Snake, ROB, DDD, G&W, they all have counters, but MK weakens their counters by a large enough margin that the fact that they hard counter characters becomes far more important then the fact that they have counters.

However, not being countered by anyone, unless there are 2 such characters, is basically a sure trip to top tier. Marth is countered by one character, MK. Nobody else can boast that, and without MK to eliminate their counters, the rest of top tier will fare considerably worse. Marth on the other hand, will be a ringer for top tier.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I think people in this thread are underrating Falco.

 

[bludhoundz]

I think they're just comparing Falco directly with Marth.

In the matchup of Marth vs Falco, Marth has the advantage.

Against the rest of the cast.. this is not necessarily so.

While Marth has no hard counters, he still has a lot of matchups where you have to play smart the entire game and you can't screw up. Falco has a lot of matchups where you barely have to try, because he can CG -> spike for a stock or CG -> gatling combo for half of that stock's %.

I think Marth is a better rounded character overall, but Falco has a plethora of easier matchups even if he has a few much harder ones.

 

[DKKountry]

^ Yeah it's not a complete underrating of Falco, it's just that it's being looked at in the context of a Marth vs.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Not really, unless a character isn't tournament viable, there very existence hurts the ability of what they counter to continue in tournament play. If they counter characters that give their counters trouble, then their counters are considerably assisted by their mere presence.

As an example, think about when Snake countered Mk (aka, MKs hadn't discovered not to "jump into the ****"), we didn't even think anything had a good match-up against Snake. Yet, now we discover that he has weaknesses to several characters. The problem is, most MK has a good match-up on, so MKs eliminated them all, and then Snake eliminated MK, resulting in Snake taking most tournaments.


Those counters are still there however, and were MK gone, they'd be a lot more viable. This would mean that the characters that were countered would be weakened considerably in standings.

Snake, ROB, DDD, G&W, they all have counters, but MK weakens their counters by a large enough margin that the fact that they hard counter characters becomes far more important then the fact that they have counters.

However, not being countered by anyone, unless there are 2 such characters, is basically a sure trip to top tier. Marth is countered by one character, MK. Nobody else can boast that, and without MK to eliminate their counters, the rest of top tier will fare considerably worse. Marth on the other hand, will be a ringer for top tier.

Omg! I can feel the cosmos!

Thx, i totally understand what u were getting at now. So pretty much ur tier rank has a lot to do with whom u can **** and whom u cant. And i guess you can factor in how good the character is by design also. Maybe another tier should be added like sum1 else suggested ("broken god tier" for example) because snake and MK just dont seem to fit where they are. I know they should be 1st and 2nd and all but they are just so wtf crazy as individual characters.

 

[Pierce7d]

Marth among Snake and DDD? That's just not thinking enough.



I main Marth, he's my favorite. He is a solid *** character with a ****load of options.



(That's where it stops)



Outside of his Up-b he doesn't have any abuseable gaurentees like a DDD chaingrab, a Snake any tilt + ability to projectile camp and broken *** weight, or a MK anything-he-does.



Marth is hella good, I don't know why people are even complaining about his spot. It's not like anyone complaining is ****** a lot and feels it is due to Marth's character design (even if you were who cares rofl).



GW is definitely better than Marth imo, Falco and R.O.B aren't (also imo) but I feel I'm a bit biased since I don't know **** about the other characters.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Emblem Lord]

As a character Marth is more well rounded, but Falco has a few tools that allow him to decimate characters with little effort.

This is what gives Falco the edge overall in high level play.

He has traits that allow him to destroy his opponents with ease.

 

[Pierce7d]

Because even Marth can't combo to 62% in this game.

 

[Doodx]

guys... this is the best position we can be in!!
not too high and not too low
we wont get so many noobs playing marth and we will be quite respected

 

[feardragon64]

we wont get so many noobs playing marth

This will never happen.

I'm playing marth.

Denied.

 

[Steel]

guys... this is the best position we can be in!!
not too high and not too low
we wont get so many noobs playing marth and we will be quite respected

For whatever reason noobs are attracted to marth, there will always be noobs.

 

[VietGeek]

For whatever reason noobs are attracted to marth, there will always be noobs.

N00bs need to flock to Game and Watch because at least they'll be successful that way.

Hmm...

I should try to play him one day.

*cough*

 

[Rawrness]

I think they're just comparing Falco directly with Marth.

In the matchup of Marth vs Falco, Marth has the advantage.

Against the rest of the cast.. this is not necessarily so.

While Marth has no hard counters, he still has a lot of matchups where you have to play smart the entire game and you can't screw up. Falco has a lot of matchups where you barely have to try, because he can CG -> spike for a stock or CG -> gatling combo for half of that stock's %.

I think Marth is a better rounded character overall, but Falco has a plethora of easier matchups even if he has a few much harder ones.

Whats a gatling combo?

 

[Darxmarth23]

lets just go and completley **** the tourneys.

 

[VietGeek]

Whats a gatling combo?

I think it's Dthrow to Dair to Dthrow to rising Nair.

I know Bombsoldier and SK92 have done something similar, I don't know if that's what it really is though.

lets just go and completley **** the tourneys.

You wish. You think MK players will suddenly grow worst? Nah, I think M2K likes his money.