The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Wizard99]

Oh Ganon, you fail at every turn

 

[Furbs]

Ness mains are annoying...........



If Ness is so good, then why is he in E rank? Why don't acually you go to tournies and win if you're so tired of people thinking Ness is crap.......>_>

Because people who win tournaments would rather win with metaknight/snake/dedede/G+W ect. than ness

 

[Lovely]

Because people who win tournaments would rather win with metaknight/snake/dedede/G+W ect. than ness

Oh I totally agree with this. I don't think too much of the tier list, but I do say that there are a lot of chracters in the tier list that is over picked and stuff.

 

[Morrigan]

In addition, all of the DreamLand characters are ridiculously good for some odd reason.........

Sakurai is just too stupid to realize that.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Sakurai is just too stupid to realize that.

He's not stupid. He's actually very clever. He was able to sneak in 3 overpowered characters under the table and make it unknown to everyone except the people that actually know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to smash.

 

[kr3wman]

Kirby isn't overpowered.

???

 

[Barge]

Kirby isn't overpowered.

???

I said his fsmash is

I absolutely despise his fsmash

 

[M15t3R E]

Is the SBR considering revising this tier list?

 

[Morrigan]

They will...eventually

 

[Galanoth7395]

@Mister E: What do you think??
Hint: Melee went through EIGHT tier lists before having a final one.

Anyways, are there threads for in-depth hacks? Ex: Moveset swapping, texture hacking, bringing back cut characters.

 

[Retroend]

I said his fsmash is

I absolutely despise his fsmash

well too bad, its there and i love the way it came out. plus there are stronger moves out there than kirby's fsmash. snake's tilts anyone?

 

[Morrigan]

He's not stupid. He's actually very clever. He was able to sneak in 3 overpowered characters under the table and make it unknown to everyone except the people that actually know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to smash.

So you think he actually thought about the competitive scene? Oh yeah, that's why he added tripping

 

[Galanoth7395]

@Dekuu: Yeah XD

btw, help out with the character percentages on smashwiki. ive done several characters already, but at this rate i'll never finish

 

[da K.I.D.]

so i had a thought.
since this list came out, ive heard and seen many characters in mid and low tier actually get some of their potential unlocked and seriously become better characters. the two that come to mind immediately are sonic and yoshi. i really think that neither of these two are low tier. of course, there are others but the point is that, ive heard every character getting better over time. good enough to get them a higher place on this list


my question is this.

what characters have gotten worse, if characters are good enough to get higher, what characters have actually gotten worse through the passage of time. because i really havent heard anything along those lines.

who will be moving DOWN in the tier list?
my only guess would be wolf, but hes still a rediculously solid character...

 

[M15t3R E]

I meant... are they working on the revised tier list right now as we speak. That's my question.

 

[-Mars-]

so i had a thought.
since this list came out, ive heard and seen many characters in mid and low tier actually get some of their potential unlocked and seriously become better characters. the two that come to mind immediately are sonic and yoshi. i really think that neither of these two are low tier. of course, there are others but the point is that, ive heard every character getting better over time. good enough to get them a higher place on this list


my question is this.

what characters have gotten worse, if characters are good enough to get higher, what characters have actually gotten worse through the passage of time. because i really havent heard anything along those lines.

who will be moving DOWN in the tier list?
my only guess would be wolf, but hes still a rediculously solid character...

I think Zelda will be taking a massive drop. I play her and love her to death.........but she absolutely can not deal with most forms of camping.

I agree that Wolf will be dropping, he has too many problems killing and his recovery is horrid.

You can expect Peach to be moving way up, she is one of those characters whose true potential was unlocked after the tier list came out.

 

[goodkid]

ZSS & Peach will move up. Peach's potential was already here when they made the list, it was just unnoticed

 

[Ryusuta]

I still can't begin to guess what's going to happen with Yoshi.

 

[gantrain05]

ZSS & Peach will move up. Peach's potential was already here when they made the list, it was just unnoticed

i will def agree with you there, peach has made leaps and bounds in her metagame, mostly thanx to edrees and dark.pch and all the other peach mains out there that keep trying to improve her metagame. ankokus rankings list puts her in B rank actually tied for 8th place.

 

[Mmac]

I still can't begin to guess what's going to happen with Yoshi.

Well knowing that almost all of the SBR treat him like a Joke Character, I wouldn't be surprised if he only went up abut 1 or 2 spots. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't move or even went down.

 

[gantrain05]

Well knowing that almost all of the SBR treat him like a Joke Character, I wouldn't be surprised if he only went up abut 1 or 2 spots. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't move or even went down.

yeah i know how ya feel Mmac, at least your not a ganon main tho lol.

 

[M15t3R E]

I believe my character, Pikachu, should move up 2 or 3 spots.
Anther has taken Pikachu's metagame to new heights by proving how good his pressure game is and how his QAC is also more practical than everyone originally thought.
Plus, Pikachu has no disadvantaged match-ups among the top tier characters aside from MK and GW. And he has an easier time punishing MK more than most characters.

 

[gantrain05]

I believe my character, Pikachu, should move up 2 or 3 spots.
Anther has taken Pikachu's metagame to new heights by proving how good his pressure game is and how his QAC is also more practical than everyone originally thought.
Plus, Pikachu has no disadvantaged match-ups among the top tier characters aside from MK and GW. And he has an easier time punishing MK more than most characters.

yeah pika seems to be moving up.....i'll never forget the discussion we had in the peach boards mister.e lol......that was the longest matchup discussion i have ever had. no hard feelings eh?

 

[M15t3R E]

Lol, I'm long over that. I don't like to get nasty like that and I'd like to extend the olive branch to you if I haven't already.

Btw, I played Dark.Pch in 1 match at the C3 tournament he was speaking of... on Battlefield.
He JV 2-stocked me (1-stocked me with 0%) but then again I SUCK at BF. Next time we meet I'm gonna be better than I was, and also take him to FD or SV.

 

[gantrain05]

Lol, I'm long over that. I don't like to get nasty like that and I'd like to extend the olive branch to you if I haven't already.

Btw, I played Dark.Pch in 1 match at the C3 tournament he was speaking of... on Battlefield.
He JV 2-stocked me (1-stocked me with 0%) but then again I SUCK at BF. Next time we meet I'm gonna be better than I was, and also take him to FD or SV.

lol yeah dark.pch is a beast, man next time a huge tourney thats not an east/west/canada tourney is goin on someone has to give me a heads up, i don't hear about many tournies living in the middle of iowa.

 

[M15t3R E]

Midwest has plenty of tourneys to offer... just maybe not too many in the state of Iowa.
Go to regional zones or tournament listings on the front page and keep alert for new midwest tournaments.

I understand how hard it is to travel. I live pretty much in the smack dab center of VA and most tournaments are in MD (above me) and a fair amount in NC (below me). Not too many in VA, tbh, except for verrry northern VA.

 

[Mmac]

yeah i know how ya feel Mmac, at least your not a ganon main tho lol.

Well.... um.... actually......

 

[-Mars-]

Well knowing that almost all of the SBR treat him like a Joke Character, I wouldn't be surprised if he only went up abut 1 or 2 spots. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't move or even went down.

Give reasons as to why he should move up. He's not placing high at any prominent tournaments, in fact your not even seeing Yoshi players at any prominent tournaments.

Blah blah he goes even with MK and he can Dragonic Reverse and all that, but in the end he's still not doing anything in the tournament world.

 

[Red Arremer]

marsulas, the voice of reason in this thread. <3

 

[Mmac]

Give reasons as to why he should move up. He's not placing high at any prominent tournaments, in fact your not even seeing Yoshi players at any prominent tournaments.

Blah blah he goes even with MK and he can Dragonic Reverse and all that, but in the end he's still not doing anything in the tournament world.

Actually he rosed up about 20 points this week. He should be in D Rank next week, but Ankoku seems to always want to "Sink" it when Yoshi actually reaches that high.... Anyways, unless Mario/Ness also place, Yoshi should be above every character in low tier excluding Sonic.

And personally, I think people these days put too much emphasis on Tournament Results, and Sonic is the perfect example. Sonic has one of the worst matchups out there (And they even admit to that), yet he's in C Rank mostly due to the sole purpose that roughly 40 Rabid Sonic/Sega Fanboys main him despite his obvious faults. For Yoshi, there's really only 3 or 4 that I know that go to Major tournaments regularly, because they actually put up and ignore the constant criticism over the months. His Matchups are also considerably better and well even.

Some aspects on tournament results are accurate, but some of the time, it's just a blatant popularity contest. Should Sonic REALLY Rise up because he's popular? Should Yoshi REALLY be punished because of the opposite? I believe facts, statistics, and matchups are more important aspects to focus on when placing tiers, rather than Tournament Standings.



Also remember that during Launch to about June, Yoshi was considered by the majority as the worst character in the game, even worser than C.Falcon. If you ask me, thats a pretty difficult thing to shake off and convince people to actually use our character with. It's basically the same as being convicted for murder and trying to apply for a job, with it on your record. We also didn't have the early support because of it.

It's nothing but a constant struggle for us. You can't tell us that we aren't trying to place better in tournaments, they're just too few of us. You can't tell us to get more people to try our character because of the constant slander. Top that off with Yoshi being one of the most technical characters in Brawl, and you can see why it's hard for us to get people to use our character and increase his ranks. I mean, who wants to main a character who is one of the hardest to use, and at one point the worst character in the game?

Where am I getting with this? I'll explain right now. The reasons Yoshi's Tournament Results are so low is not because he sucks, but rather everyone is just plain put off by the character. If the constant slander and rumours doesn't turn people off, the complexity will. Honestly, in all my years playing fighting games, I have never seen a character get so criticized only because of the ignorance of people in the past.

If you Look at Yoshi, is there really anything wrong with him? He's got one of the best recoveries in the game, Fast and Rangy attacks, Combo's with Bair, One of the best Grab Games, Decent Projectile, Chaingrabs, Grab Release Setups, A great Physical Defencive Game, Well Balanced Matchups, Combo Breakers, Dair Lock, and Good Escapes. So what exactly is there to keep him so low on the tier list?

And this is why you don't argue with me past midnight

 

[Ryusuta]

I would have said something here, but Mmac just did all the schooling required.

Way to fail, Marsulas.

 

[-Mars-]

I would have said something here, but Mmac just did all the schooling required.

Way to fail, Marsulas.

I don't see how I "failed". I merely asked the question of why should he rise if he has no tourny representation and I got the usual "no one plays him" response.

I really don't feel like a wall of text this early in the morning..maybe tomorrow.

I will say that top players care less about rumors and popularity. If Yoshi was truly as good as all of you Yoshi players think he is, more people would be picking him up.......period.

 

[Drecker]

But R0y haz F1Re!

This in ten.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I agree with marsulas' statements about Yoshi. Yoshi players are claiming for months now that he does well vs MK but it never worked out that way in the slightest.

Bowser on the other hand is already proven to do well vs him (Sliq placing 3r with Booza and I think not a single MK got above him. Ally won with Snake) and even characters who are supposed to be not that good vs MK are actually doing better despite being underplayed too: Zamus (Snakeee beating lots of MKs), Luigi (Boss beating Forte) and Olimar (atomsk beating Inui + others). And we still have Diddy beating top MKs as well as DK (Bum), D3 (atomsk beating omni and forte) and Lucario of course.

So where's Yoshi?

 

[Ryusuta]

I agree with marsulas' statements about Yoshi. Yoshi players are claiming for months now that he does well vs MK but it never worked out that way in the slightest.

Bowser on the other hand is already proven to do well vs him (Sliq placing 3r with Booza and I think not a single MK got above him. Ally won with Snake) and even characters who are supposed to be not that good vs MK are actually doing better despite being underplayed too: Zamus (Snakeee beating lots of MKs), Luigi (Boss beating Forte) and Olimar (atomsk beating Inui + others). And we still have Diddy beating top MKs as well as DK (Bum), D3 (atomsk beating omni and forte) and Lucario of course.

So where's Yoshi?

Apparently you didn't just hear that part about Yoshi's tournament results improving and his metagame making great strides.

I'm not sure what part you "agreed" with Marsulas about. You mean the part where he ignored everything Mmac said? Or the part where he didn't actually back up anything he said? Or maybe it was the part where he said that Yoshi's tournament results aren't improving, which is blatantly and observably false. I'd like to be clear on what you're agreeing with, so I can gauge just how hopeless it is to discuss this with you.

And remember that there are characters that did well on this tier list DESPITE having bad tournament results, even if that were the case. When this tier list was first released, Luigi had some of the WORST tournament results in the entire cast!

There is NO - and I repeat NO - valid justification for Yoshi to be so far behind on the tiers anymore. There really hasn't been since about April or May of this year... it's just that, once again, SBR is behind the times.

 

[PKNintendo]

I believe my character, Pikachu, should move up 2 or 3 spots.
Anther has taken Pikachu's metagame to new heights by proving how good his pressure game is and how his QAC is also more practical than everyone originally thought.
Plus, Pikachu has no disadvantaged match-ups among the top tier characters aside from MK and GW. And he has an easier time punishing MK more than most characters.

Your precious Pikachu shouldn't move up!

Even though I know little of the character, im telling YOU that he shouldn't move up.

 

[PKNintendo]

ness is soo good. i'm tired of people thinking he's crap.

Did you just insult me? I DO go to tournaments and I was poking FUN at that guy. Geez your slow. Why don't YOU go to a tournament and win eh? CF main.

 

[Snowstalker]

The current tier list, and my predictions as to whether they will move up or down.

Top
Meta Knight(=)
Snake(v)
King Dedede(=)
Mr. Game & Watch(^)
Falco(=)
R.O.B.(v)

High
Marth(^)
Wario(=)
Lucario(=)
Donkey Kong(v)
Diddy(^)
Pikachu(v)
Ice Climbers(=)
Kirby(^)
Pit(v)
Wolf(=)

Middle
Toon Link(^)
Olimar(^)
Fox(v)
Zelda(v)
Zero Suit Samus(=)
Bowser(v)
Luigi(^)
Peach(^)
Ike(v)
Sheik(=)

Low
Lucas(=)
Ness(^)
Mario(^)
Pokémon Trainer(=)
Samus(v)
Yoshi(^)
Sonic(^)
Jigglypuff(=)
Ganondorf(v)
Link(^)
Captain Falcon(=)

 

[Anther]

Personally I think sonic should be at least Middle of mid tier, while ZSS should be high.
Sonic has waaay more potential than low tier. Doesn't really matter if the tier list reflects it, the char doesn't get any better or worse, but for accuracy, he's a lot better than anywhere near low tier XD.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Personally I think sonic should be at least Middle of mid tier, while ZSS should be high.
Sonic has waaay more potential than low tier. Doesn't really matter if the tier list reflects it, the char doesn't get any better or worse, but for accuracy, he's a lot better than anywhere near low tier XD.

This squirrel speaks the truth. ^_^
Actually a lot of Sonics think bottom of mid but thanks for the vote of confidence.