The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[-Mars-]

Apparently you didn't just hear that part about Yoshi's tournament results improving and his metagame making great strides.

I'm not sure what part you "agreed" with Marsulas about. You mean the part where he ignored everything Mmac said? Or the part where he didn't actually back up anything he said? Or maybe it was the part where he said that Yoshi's tournament results aren't improving, which is blatantly and observably false. I'd like to be clear on what you're agreeing with, so I can gauge just how hopeless it is to discuss this with you.

And remember that there are characters that did well on this tier list DESPITE having bad tournament results, even if that were the case. When this tier list was first released, Luigi had some of the WORST tournament results in the entire cast!

There is NO - and I repeat NO - valid justification for Yoshi to be so far behind on the tiers anymore. There really hasn't been since about April or May of this year... it's just that, once again, SBR is behind the times.

WTF? Are you Mmacs little lapdog?

I said Yoshi isn't placing high in any prominent tournaments..........oh and guess what? He's not.

Luigi has insane priority, plenty of KO options(including the ability to kill at 50%), 50% combos, and wierd traction properties that allow him to escape potential combos. His KO moves are among some of the most powerful and speediest in the whole game............only a moron wouldn't place him in at least mid.


Yoshi's shield is horrible. In a game where shielding is one of the most important aspects in the entire game.........having a ****ty shield means your a ****ty character. That alone will keep him in low mid to low for the remainder of Brawls' time.

 

[Browny]

Id say luigis traction is more of a massive disadvantage than it is ever a good trait. pretty much every character can punish the likes of a fully shielded marth DB, DK fsmash, wolf fsmash especially but luigi cant do anything and his spacing is completely ruined and has to approach all over again.

no argument on his silly priority and ko potential though lol

 

[-Mars-]

Id say luigis traction is more of a massive disadvantage than it is ever a good trait. pretty much every character can punish the likes of a fully shielded marth DB, DK fsmash, wolf fsmash especially but luigi cant do anything and his spacing is completely ruined and has to approach all over again.

no argument on his silly priority and ko potential though lol

It's called powershielding bro.

 

[Browny]

similarly, everyone can just powershield all of luigis aerial approaches and grab him every time >_>

 

[-Mars-]

similarly, everyone can just powershield all of luigis aerial approaches and grab him every time >_>

Obviously you have no clue about Luigi. Your basic Luigi approach will be a SH dair, if you choose to powershield the dair, you'll eat a nair to the face. In addition Luigi's SH is high due to his floaty mechanics, so he's not going to be grabbed out of his approaches. He can also just dair and crossover your shield or dair your shield and retreat with tornado. His approach is certainly puishable.........but not by grabs.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Luigi should be high tier but the fact that he slides around so easily is not only an advantage. He'll miss out lots of punishing opportunities (which sucks since his shuryuken is h4x).
It can be both advantageous and disadvantageous. He is hard to chase and predict thanks to his traction so it's not only a disavantage.

I can only recommend playing Luigi. He's amazing and extremely fun to play. Yeah he should be high tier.

 

[Ryusuta]

WTF? Are you Mmacs little lapdog?

I didn't see you accusing people of being YOUR lapdog. Let's leave the immature ad hominem bull**** out of the conversation. It does you no good and me no harm.

Luigi has insane priority, plenty of KO options(including the ability to kill at 50%), 50% combos, and wierd traction properties that allow him to escape potential combos. His KO moves are among some of the most powerful and speediest in the whole game............only a moron wouldn't place him in at least mid.

So you ADMIT that you are being nothing but one gigantic freaking hypocrite. You're placing Yoshi low NOT because of his tournament results, but because you don't think he should be higher. Luigi had WORSE tournament results than even Yoshi when this list came out, so using results as justification for one tier placement but not another is the very DEFINITION of a double-standard.

So congratulations. Your argument has just been shredded, destroyed, taken a dump on, and burned in a fiery inferno. Game over. Nice try.

Yoshi's shield is horrible. In a game where shielding is one of the most important aspects in the entire game.........having a ****ty shield means your a ****ty character. That alone will keep him in low mid to low for the remainder of Brawls' time.

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. I'm sorry, but you're only embarrassing yourself if this is all that you can come up with.

 

[-Mars-]

Oooh look at Mr. Orion with the fancy language.

Obviously the SBR based the first list primarily off of potential and less off of tournament results. Since then Yoshi hasn't done much of anything to deserve a drastic climb up the tier list. Boss has proven what Luigi is capable of.....what Yoshi player does anyone hear about? At least Luigi has one top-line player on the tournament front.......Yoshi not so much. Mac used the "nobody plays my character excuse" as the reason for the SBR's bias. The same can be said for Luigi except Luigi is actually a good character and people realize this. Obviously the SBR saw a better character and clearly more potential in Luigi that they did in Yoshi......even without tourny results. Shows you how little anyone thinks of Yoshi even with the advances in his metagame.

Your right, I don't know much about Yoshi......but you can't deny that his shield is horrible. In the world of Brawl....that's not good.

His matchups are also bad. Marth, G&W, and Lucario all destroy you. Snake, Falco and ROB also have sizable advantages. The MK debacle is just laughable.......why should Yoshi move up? Instead of telling us to prove why he shouldn't, give us a few reasons why he should. With those matchups...........he's not going anywhere.

 

[Ryusuta]

Oooh look at Mr. Orion with the fancy language.

I'm sorry. Are the words I'm using to big for you? I wasn't aware you needed me to talk down to you.

Obviously the SBR based the first list primarily off of potential and less off of tournament results. Since then Yoshi hasn't done much of anything to deserve a drastic climb up the tier list. Boss has proven what Luigi is capable of.....what Yoshi player does anyone hear about?

Bwett.

Mac used the "nobody plays my character excuse" as the reason for the SBR's bias. The same can be said for Luigi except Luigi is actually a good character and people realize this.

That is a blatant strawman - oh, wait, that might be too complex of a term - that is a misrepresentation of what Mmac said. He was conjecturing about why Yoshi's tournament results haven't been as impressive as they could be. And as we're clearly revealing now through this conversation, it was nothing to do with why his position is so low.

Obviously the SBR saw a better character and clearly more potential in Luigi that they did in Yoshi......even without tourny results.

Since when are tier lists a judge of future potential? Tier lists are SUPPOSED to be a judge of how the character performs NOW. If Luigi wasn't performing according to expectations, then that means the expectations - as they stood then - were WRONG, and the data should reflect this. Creating the tier list any other way shows nothing but unjustified partiality and bias. It's not instructive or helpful, it's merely self-perpetuating.

Luigi is good because we SAY he's good. Yoshi is bad because we SAY he's bad.

You ask us for results... WHERE THE HELL ARE YOUR STANDARDS FOR JUDGMENT!?

Shows you how little anyone thinks of Yoshi even with the advances in his metagame.

Exactly. It shows that people don't like Yoshi, so they don't want to give credit where it is due. They can't find any legitimate basis for criticism, so they make stuff up in the hopes that no one will call them out on it. Well, I'm made to notice stuff like this. You can use your weak rationalizations and try to sweep this under the carpet as much as you like, but it doesn't make what you're saying any less of a fallacy.

Your right, I don't know much about Yoshi......but you can't deny that his shield is horrible. In the world of Brawl....that's not good.

His matchups are also bad. Marth, G&W, and Lucario all destroy you. Snake, Falco and ROB also have sizable advantages.

Well, you did say ONE thing correctly - you DON'T know anything about Yoshi. Yoshi can 0%-DEATH Falco in a single grab. He also has a CG to gimp on Snake as well. At WORST he's 4:6 against them... and there are arguments to make them even. Don't even bother discussing this if you haven't done any research on the match-ups at all.

Instead of telling us to prove why he shouldn't, give us a few reasons why he should. With those matchups...........he's not going anywhere.

Mmac already gave you SEVERAL reasons Yoshi should move up. You just came back with the tourney results crap, which started this discussion in the first place.

Now that THAT garbage is off the table, though, you might go back and re-read what he's said. I'd be more than happy to throw in some more if you'd like.

 

[Browny]

Exactly. It shows that people don't like Yoshi, so they don't want to give credit where it is due. They can't find any legitimate basis for criticism, so they make stuff up in the hopes that no one will call them out on it.

E Rank <Never Used>
29 Yoshi (6 top8, 4 top4) - 21.7 - 31

Basis for criticism isnt exactly required. Its up to yoshi mains to prove thier point to everyone where it really matters, not for other people to try and understand his good points when those results are the only obvious indication we have of how good yoshi is.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

>.> I like Yoshi.......

But he needs to be proven better than people have been proving him. People were bashing on Peach and Sonic mains too. THEY went out and proved themselves. They didn't sit around arguing on forums. IMO Yoshi is ranked too low. Why don't you go PROVE he isn't?

 

[Ravin]

"If you have a ****ty shield, you have a ****ty character"

So I take it you never heard of grabs?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

****ty shields probably INCREASE your chance of getting grabbed......

 

[Ravin]

****ty shield simply means you have to use Dodging a tad more, mixing up your game, and force yourself to power shield when possible,

If anything, a person striving to be better, would use this disadvantage to further push themselves to be better.

IMO.

 

[Ryusuta]

Basis for criticism isnt exactly required. Its up to yoshi mains to prove thier point to everyone where it really matters, not for other people to try and understand his good points when those results are the only obvious indication we have of how good yoshi is.

You don't seem to understand. If bad tournament results are the reason that Yoshi is in low tier, then Luigi should be in low tier, too (or at least a lower one).

If not, then his merits (CG versus half the cast, infinite CG against a high tier character, stage-based infinite CGs on several CP stages, fantastic pokes, superior aerial mobility, projectile-stopping moves against most of the cast, wavedash, 0% death on some characters, and yes, neutral match-up against a broken character) should be taken into account and his position should be raised.

Either tournament results count for something or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Everyone ELSE has the ability to mixups like that too. But better.

 

[Ravin]

Not really...

Yoshi, claimed to have a ****ty shield, actually has a pretty decent Ddodge, roll not to geat, but makes it up with other things, allowing a unquie span of mindgames, as everyone does depend on what they are, or arnt limited on.

You just saying "Well someone can do it better"

Well no duh. Roll MK or Snake and have fun.

And for you to say someone can powershield better makes me Lol... Just letting you know. It dependent on the players ability to adapt and understand the situations put before said player.

 

[Ryusuta]

Yeah, and about Yoshi's shield...

Yoshi players practically NEVER use their shield. It's rarely needed. In long-distance games, Yoshi's aerials snuff out most projectiles (especially back air), and up-close, he has his pivot grab, pokes, and tilts. Most Yoshi players spend very little time in their shield, except to buffer it into a dodge and then buffer that into something else.

 

[hectichobo]

Wow... how did fatty and flatty get top tier? and why is ness low? i need to go back to bed.......

EDIT: Re-Reads: Rob's top too.... wtf...
And lucas is above ness? dude... wow...i've been drugged in my sleep or something...

 

[Morrigan]

yeah lucas is def. hi tire

 

[Barge]

Rob is definitely top tier material. He has too much priority, great aerials, amazing recovery, 2 long ranged tools, and great stringing ability.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Rob is definitely top tier material. He has too much priority, great aerials, amazing recovery, 2 long ranged tools, and great stringing ability.

Dont forget he is related to Wall-E so yea...top tier...

 

[da K.I.D.]

I'm not even going to waste my time re-quoting this, because the way you quoted this piece of ****. I have no idea what you are contesting against? What does Link have? What does Samus have? Most of the stuff you have said is because you don't know **** all on how my character works, and just going along with the lies all over the years. This is the exact same crap I've been contesting about. You don't how his projectile works, you don't know his recovery works, and you don't know anything. Either you actually learn how my character works, or YOU Get the **** out!

And let me ask you something. Why do you main Sonic? Why does everyone else main Sonic? And why does he have the 5th most Tournament Wins this Year?

i am contesting against the fact that you say that yoshi has the tools to move out of low tier, when every thing you mention as strengths of his are strengths that other characters in low tier have
trust me i know how your character works, i used to play shiri all the time and not too long ago i played the yoshinator for like 3 hours straight, why do you feel that if somebody knows the facts about yoshi but still think hes bad that theres something wrong with him?
i also lurk your boards and learn about the character i know youve seen me, dont act like im lying. and have you ever thought that everybody is saying the same ting cus its true? i mean obviously the "lol FS yoshi and he dies" stuff is stupid, but that doesnt change the fact that you play a bad character with some positive things going for him
i play sonic because he is my favorite video game character ever. what of it?
think about it, what makes more sence, a good amount of knowledgable people saying, " sonic isnt that bad, hes about lower mid tier material," or one guy living up in an igloo somewhere in canada that cant even get to a tourney saying "Yoshi si amazing!!! PLEASE BELIEVE ME!!!"
and for the record sonic has that many tourney wins because djbrownie is basically the best smasher in australia and he happens to use sonic.

 

[Ryusuta]

i am contesting against the fact that you say that yoshi has the tools to move out of low tier, when every thing you mention as strengths of his are strengths that other characters in low tier have

Oh, I wasn't aware that Ganondorf had a 0-death combo against Falco. This is news to me.

trust me i know how your character works, i used to play shiri all the time and not too long ago i played the yoshinator for like 3 hours straight, why do you feel that if somebody knows the facts about yoshi but still think hes bad that theres something wrong with him?

It means that some Yoshi players are more pessimistic than others. Don't confuse pessimism with realism, however.

i also lurk your boards and learn about the character i know youve seen me, dont act like im lying. and have you ever thought that everybody is saying the same ting cus its true? i mean obviously the "lol FS yoshi and he dies" stuff is stupid, but that doesnt change the fact that you play a bad character with some positive things going for him
i play sonic because he is my favorite video game character ever. what of it?
think about it, what makes more sence, a good amount of knowledgable people saying, " sonic isnt that bad, hes about lower mid tier material," or one guy living up in an igloo somewhere in canada that cant even get to a tourney saying "Yoshi si amazing!!! PLEASE BELIEVE ME!!!"

I'm surprised that there's any tall grass left in this world with so many strawmen being made in this topic.

 

[Galanoth7395]

WOOT posting from an I-Phone :D

 

[Bwett]

The difficulty in proving Yoshi's viability is that most people who main Yoshi (no offense guys <3) do not have the skills to accomplish that kind of feat. There might be about 4 in the nation, at most, that might be able to do so. Of course, I do not use this as an excuse, but moreso the reason why it has yet to be done.

Personally, I believe Yoshi should be higher tier, not necessarily too much. If anything, even bottom of mid would be much better than it currently is. I'm not sure how the tier list is exactly made up, but a big reason I believe so is because of his matchups. We usually have people who play that character discuss with us the matchup, and as of now, we have a huge amount of near even, even, or advantages. We only have about 5 extremely difficult matchups.

Shouldn't having more than three-fourths the cast at a decent or even matchup lead to a middle tier? Once again, I don't know the way the tier list is created.

 

[brinboy789]

Oh, I wasn't aware that Ganondorf had a 0-death combo against Falco. This is news to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhzEEAO0Kxk
LOL

 

[Morrigan]

^^^

"Only" 5 extremely difficult matchups? That seems a lot to me. The more impossible matchups your character has, the more options your opponent has when it comes to counterpicking. 5 seem a lot to me.

 

[Deleted member]

Why they arent impossible they are just hard. Ive beaten players in tournament with yoshi who play yoshis hard matchups. Yoshi doesnt need to counterpick at all, its just helpful. Me, bwett, pride, and some other good yoshis have PROVED yoshis viability in tournaments. If you want to see all of our results, go to our board and look at the yoshi tournament results thread(lots of people dont post in the rankings thread). Ive beaten some of the best marths in socal with yoshi, which is supposedly a terrible matchup for yoshi.

Whether you think so or not, i dont care. Yoshi is a tournament viable character, I dont care what you think about yoshi being terrible, if you want to be ignorant fine by me, but dont say that yoshi players dont prove themselves in tournaments because its an insult to me, and probably other yoshis who actually do go to tournaments and place.

 

[Bwett]

^^^

"Only" 5 extremely difficult matchups? That seems a lot to me. The more impossible matchups your character has, the more options your opponent has when it comes to counterpicking. 5 seem a lot to me.

Wolf has 3 extremely difficult matchups and he is in high tier. Does an extra 2 constitute a drop from high to low?

 

[Morrigan]

COnsidering he is Yoshi....yes







jk

 

[Bwett]

COnsidering he is Yoshi....yes







jk

Omg, I didnt scroll down all the way lol. Good one =P

 

[Dyyne]

Just sayin, with all these characters people want to rise... middle tier is going to be ****ing huge and low will have like 4 chars haha. I don't think people consider that fact too often haha.

 

[choknater]

only characters i can see as "bad" meaning very little potential:

ganon

maybe: ivy, yoshi, falcon, theyre kinda bad but they can manage sometimes

just an opinion

every other character, it seems that they can do well in certain matchups and are fairly balanced, some just have some really horrible weaknesses (like fox's weakness to locks, or luigi's weakness to camping)

 

[-Mars-]

If we do decide Yoshi's spot based off of tournament placings........he's stil not above anyone in middle tier. In fact Mario, Lucas, and Sonic are all ahead of him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf has 3 extremely difficult matchups and he is in high tier. Does an extra 2 constitute a drop from high to low?

He has almost no soft counter. Only Sheik. Atm people think G&W and Marth have the advantage but I think both are in Wolfs favour.

Wario would be a better example imo

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Why they arent impossible they are just hard. Ive beaten players in tournament with yoshi who play yoshis hard matchups. Yoshi doesnt need to counterpick at all, its just helpful. Me, bwett, pride, and some other good yoshis have PROVED yoshis viability in tournaments. If you want to see all of our results, go to our board and look at the yoshi tournament results thread(lots of people dont post in the rankings thread). Ive beaten some of the best marths in socal with yoshi, which is supposedly a terrible matchup for yoshi.

Whether you think so or not, i dont care. Yoshi is a tournament viable character, I dont care what you think about yoshi being terrible, if you want to be ignorant fine by me, but dont say that yoshi players dont prove themselves in tournaments because its an insult to me, and probably other yoshis who actually do go to tournaments and place.

lol I feel the same way about Sonic. Except he HAS tournament results. =P

If Yoshi's doing so well in tourneys why don't you post the results and shut everyone up?

 

[Mmac]

*Sigh* Why can't people just leave my arguments to myself?

I said Yoshi isn't placing high in any prominent tournaments..........oh and guess what? He's not.

Well... Define "High". There's not really alot of characters placing "High" these days

Luigi has insane priority, plenty of KO options(including the ability to kill at 50%), 50% combos, and wierd traction properties that allow him to escape potential combos. His KO moves are among some of the most powerful and speediest in the whole game............only a moron wouldn't place him in at least mid.

He also has some of the worst approaches in the game (Cyclone is decent, but once you know how to deal with it, it's easily punishable), his traction is a double edge sword, and his UpB is very punishable if whiffed. His recovery seems to be overjustified. It has great distance, but at times, you can't really defend yourself when recovering.

Yoshi's shield is horrible. In a game where shielding is one of the most important aspects in the entire game.........having a ****ty shield means your a ****ty character. That alone will keep him in low mid to low for the remainder of Brawls' time.

Poor Shield =/= Poor Defence. DK also has one of the worst shields in the game, but is his defence bad? No, and neither is Yoshi. His physical defence is enough to cover the flaws of his shield.

Obviously the SBR based the first list primarily off of potential and less off of tournament results. Since then Yoshi hasn't done much of anything to deserve a drastic climb up the tier list. Boss has proven what Luigi is capable of.....what Yoshi player does anyone hear about? At least Luigi has one top-line player on the tournament front.......Yoshi not so much. Mac used the "nobody plays my character excuse" as the reason for the SBR's bias. The same can be said for Luigi except Luigi is actually a good character and people realize this. Obviously the SBR saw a better character and clearly more potential in Luigi that they did in Yoshi......even without tourny results. Shows you how little anyone thinks of Yoshi even with the advances in his metagame.

How does this make any sense? Pretty much what you said here was:

Tier List = Potential > Tournament Results
Potential = Tournament Results

Therefore Tier List = Tournament Results?

Makes no sense to me. Plus your saying that an highly recognizable pro who has been playing the game since Melee times is using Luigi, that automatically proves his Potential? Isn't that an unfair comparison? That's pretty much like saying "Ha Ha! We have Boss and you don't you suck lololololololoooooolllllol".

And if you aren't reading my arguments all the way through and just ASSUMING that you are the one that is being biased. Plus was Luigi sought to be nerfed to hell? Was Luigi Complex? Was Luigi considered the worst by most?

Your right, I don't know much about Yoshi......but you can't deny that his shield is horrible. In the world of Brawl....that's not good.

His shield is horrible, I can't deny it. However that doesn't mean his Defence is horrible. Also, a good benefit though is that his shield slides alot (Almost as much as Luigi's, no joke, so he usually gets out of harms way fast. Can't counter with it, but it does it's primary job as a shield.... I guess.

His matchups are also bad. Marth, G&W, and Lucario all destroy you. Snake, Falco and ROB also have sizable advantages. The MK debacle is just laughable.......why should Yoshi move up? Instead of telling us to prove why he shouldn't, give us a few reasons why he should. With those matchups...........he's not going anywhere.

If you think a 40:60 is "Destroyed", then sure. Also Yoshi has Zero Deaths against both Snake and Falco (Snake is harder to pull off, and Falco is still under heavy debate), and ROB might actually be Neutral(ish). Also how is Yoshi vs. MetaKnight Laughable?

And if you were comparing Yoshi to Luigi, Luigi does even WORSE against the Higher Tiers! So Yoshi should remain Low Tier because his Matchups against the High Tiers are "Terrible", but Luigi should rise up to High Tier when his Matchups are WORSE! Your Logic astounds me.

E Rank <Never Used>
29 Yoshi (6 top8, 4 top4) - 21.7 - 31

Basis for criticism isnt exactly required. Its up to yoshi mains to prove thier point to everyone where it really matters, not for other people to try and understand his good points when those results are the only obvious indication we have of how good yoshi is.

Before you quote his current placing, Remind that I already told you that Yoshi had a Win (ZOMG WTF HAX!) and a Top 8 This week. Ankoku doesn't update daily anymore (He updates Weekly), and if you REALLY want legitimacy, Ask him.

i am contesting against the fact that you say that yoshi has the tools to move out of low tier, when every thing you mention as strengths of his are strengths that other characters in low tier have

Which would be?

trust me i know how your character works, i used to play shiri all the time and not too long ago i played the yoshinator for like 3 hours straight, why do you feel that if somebody knows the facts about yoshi but still think hes bad that theres something wrong with him?

I haven't seen either play, but if you think he's garbage because his Recovery is one of the easiest to intercept and his Projectile is one of the shortest and slowest in the game, then I'm guessing they didn't really do a good job repersenting Yoshi... either that, or you are biased as hell

i also lurk your boards and learn about the character i know youve seen me, dont act like im lying. and have you ever thought that everybody is saying the same ting cus its true? i mean obviously the "lol FS yoshi and he dies" stuff is stupid, but that doesnt change the fact that you play a bad character with some positive things going for him

It's amazing that you say that, when I recall you are the same person who said that Sonic completely owns Yoshi because of Foot Stalling.

And if Yoshi REALLY was a Bad character, then I would agree, However Yoshi IS NOT a Bad character, and this is why I defend so much

i play sonic because he is my favorite video game character ever. what of it?

There you go, so does almost everyone else who mains Sonic. He's just naturally popular.

think about it, what makes more sence, a good amount of knowledgable people saying, " sonic isnt that bad, hes about lower mid tier material," or one guy living up in an igloo somewhere in canada that cant even get to a tourney saying "Yoshi si amazing!!! PLEASE BELIEVE ME!!!"

Yes. I live in an Igloo. I am communicating on my computer made out of Walrus Flubber, and my keyboard made out of the bones of a Musk Ox, using it's tusk as a Mouse. Now if you don't mind, I have to build some stone statues to divert a family of Caribou, and hunt them so that I can upgrade my Graphics Card to play FarCry 2.

and for the record sonic has that many tourney wins because djbrownie is basically the best smasher in australia and he happens to use sonic.

Amazing, isn't it?

We usually have people who play that character discuss with us the matchup, and as of now, we have a huge amount of near even, even, or advantages. We only have about 5 extremely difficult matchups.

What? We don't have 5 "Extremely" hard matchups (unless we have (and probably do) different definitions of "Extreme") My "Extreme" is something over 70:30, and he only has one, which is Game & Watch. Honestly though, I'm starting to think even thats overblown

And I also agree that Wolf isn't really a good comparison. He has nothing but good matchups after his bad ones. However almost all of his bad matchups are in Top Tier... Irony

Hey now mmac, i didnt beat DSF =P
I wish XD I almost did tho.

I thought you did say you beat DSF recently though. I do recall you saying you beat DSF one time in the chat....

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Mmac please don't talk about Luigi. You don't know enough about him.

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188787
Yoshi tournament results thread. Exactly as we have said, we dont have very many tournament yoshis, but we have some placings.