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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

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adumbrodeus

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Because people don't play "gay" enough with her and she has too few mains.



Unfortunately, there are very few people who play "girly" characters.


Do I really have to launch into another rant about how our tournament results reflect centralization.



Yes, jiggs is better because of her stalling ability. Not too much better though.
 

DMG

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DANG.

If you were a girl SL, this would be like him taking you home, getting you in bed, and taking a huge dump on your chest. He pampers you up, silently planning a soul crushing moment, and BAM next thing you know, you're surrounded in a pool of shame.

Lol. <3 SL

Also, Peach:

Who here, besides people we know their obvious stances on/already stated it, think Peach is viable or not viable?
 

ShadowLink84

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Dark.pch brought it up! I just responded saying that you had other attributes that were more important then your extensive knowledge of all things sonic.
I didn't say you DESERVED to be in though, that's just your best qualification.
Mwahahahaha

Ok, I'm done.
Well thats fine because I am just as good a debator as you and so, you must not be qualified either!

*watches adumbrodeus get purple next day*

WTF!?
 

adumbrodeus

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Well thats fine because I am just as good a debator as you and so, you must not be qualified either!

*watches adumbrodeus get purple next day*

WTF!?
That'd be funny.

DANG.

If you were a girl SL, this would be like him taking you home, getting you in bed, and taking a huge dump on your chest. He pampers you up, silently planning a soul crushing moment, and BAM next thing you know, you're surrounded in a pool of shame.

Lol. <3 SL
Too good, too good.

Also, Peach:

Who here, besides people we know their obvious stances on/already stated it, think Peach is viable or not viable?
As viable as the rest of B tier. Of course, me being as cynical as I am barely consider anyone not MK or Snake viable (and snake is a major concession so)... Not very?


I mean honestly, how rare is it for any character outside of S tier in the current metagame (the tier list is outdated) to win a regional or even place in the money? Let alone a national.

The metagame isn't really balanced enough for a B tier character like peach to really be viable unless a peach that's considerably better then everyone else pops up (or one of the current great peaches advances to that level).
 

Shaya

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So because A+ tiers are important that means to not give an equal attention to the rest below that? Again how you expect to make a legit tier list? And that has been my point this whole time. Ok these same boring characters is what you see at tournaments all the time and place well and are so called important. Other characters in this game compete too. And even beaten these over used important characters.

A Ness and a Fox Has beaten tyrants meta. But ness and Fox are not as important as A+ tier. So who cares right? Thats what I hear right now. Or there would be some excuse to why tyrant lost to these characters.

This is not about being worthy. This is not about characters being important. This about actually learning about each character to a full extent. When you make a tier list with every character in the game, you make sure you focus on every character in the game. Not work on making the important ones on point and then just juggle the rest below on placement. For that just make a tier list about A+ tiers and screw the others since they are not that important. I don't care if Peach was important or not . I don't care if Link was important or not. But they need to be in the right spots they should be in. And not be lazy or not have full info on these characters.
Okay DP.

However it wouldn't be a stretch that the metagame is based around A+ characters.
Those characters importance is obvious, they have proven they're viable. And your characters viability depends on how well you do against them.
If you can solidify Peach as having even/whatnot advantages with minimal disadvantages against A+ characters you're most likely worthy of being among them or near them. As I always say though, actions are louder than words.
To me, my definition, RIGHT THERE, is what the tier list is.
WHO CARES IF PEACH DOES WELL AGAINST LINK AND GANONDORF.
THIS IS THE METAGAME, the HIGH LEVEL METAGAME.
Who cares if Ike does well in Low tier tournaments, this has nothing to do with the REAL metagame.

Your ideas of a tier list have obvious fallacies, and that is your indefinite issue.
We know characters, we don't ignore characters, are you ignoring what I'm saying on purpose? The A+ metagame is extremely important in how we measure OTHER characters, because who cares if Ike does well against all the low tiers. You're trying to say that Peach's match ups with Link really matter in the tier list? If you are, that is a huge shot to your ability to conceptualise.

We don't ignore characters,
I'll say it again.
But A+ defines the metagame. How characters do against them is what defines their viability (tier placement).
Are you honestly trying to say that the BBR is wrong/the tier list is bad or terrible because of your fallacy that Peach against Link should be as important as Peach against Meta Knight?

Please DP, use your head here.

Fox/Ness beating Tyrant's MK isn't ignored. If that was to happen consistantly it would signify that those characters viability are increased largely due to MK's dominance

We care about if Fox/Ness do well against MK, but we shouldn't care (well we do, but to a LOT LESS OF A DEGREE) than we care about how Ness does against Fox

So we do focus on every character in the game.
Sorry to disappoint you.
 

DMG

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KID can you triple Moonwalk into Sticky Walk?
 

da K.I.D.

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only time I moonwalk is on accident.

cant stickywalk at all

but i main sonic in brawl, so I have tehmindgames. and when you apply those tehmindgames to a character than only needs 5 hits to kill, it makes me good enough to beat scrubs like SL and ADB.

im really good at getting grabs lol
 

Conviction

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I mean, I can and do win in-state tournaments with Pokémon Trainer. I don't claim that because I can and have reliably defeated the #2 spot on the Alabama Power Rankings (a Meta Knight player), Pokémon Trainer has the speed to keep up with the best and most knowledgeable Meta Knights. Will_ is no Mew2King.

The fact that there's always a higher point in the metagame is irrelevant. The future isn't the metagame we're talking about. This isn't about undiscovered techniques. It's about the most skillful use of what we know. While that takes more than a little theorycrafting at times, a growing metagame only matters when the growth matters significantly, generally speaking

How many times I have to tell you NO ONE has played Peach to her full extend. NO-ONE-AT-ALL.

And I bet if a Peach was to kick his ***, there be some excuse. To seriously know if a character can't handle something is to see them at full force. If ever Peach player in the world was to play the ganon match up bad, does this mean ganon beats Peach? No one in the owrld is playing Peach to about 50% of her full ability. So they all keep losing to ganon. Or if we wanted to make a realistic example, Peach vs Link or Mario with what I just said in this paragraph.

Now if you wanted to get at this M2K stuff.

- No Peach player alive is as smart as M2K, so you bring that up is clearly insane as to no Peach player beating him.

- MK is the best in the game under the control of M2K.

- MK beats Peach.

- No Peach player has never played Peach at the hight point of her metagame. and to a point her metagame keeps growing for that matter.

So that logic with M2K does not prove anything at all.
Ima throw this out there that I'm no Peach Expert.

>.>

<.<

Sorry guys I'm coming in extra late in this convo. :)

I see what DP is saying Reflex.

You can't play a character at the top of it's metagame when it's Metagame is moving/seemingly moving. MK's Metagame isn't really goin anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong) as of now because of his already raining superiority over anyone soooo why worry about advancing if the people below me are advancing and are still losing.

/an MK point of view (I guess)

A character that has some type of movement in it's Metagame is close to impossible to play at the top of because when you think you hit the top the ceiling has rose once again >.< (which I find can be annoying at times). Let's say X character is finding new techs everyday (probably never will happen XD) it's almost impossible to keep completely master every single thing which in terms makes it almost impossible to be top of metagame for X character.

/a character with any type of movement in their Metagame's point of view.


I hope I made sense :)

Hittin you with the verbal.
 

DanGR

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Everyone related to that post in one way or another needs to fix their quote tags.
 

FaWa

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I'm going to agree with DP here, but to a different extent. I know a characters match up against Link or Samus won't really matter that much. I know that having a good matchup against an A+ character is much more important then having one against a C character. No matter how much anyone tries, it'll stay this way. But that doesn't mean we have to completely disregard the entire list of characters that aren't Top Tier. This is a tier list for all of Brawl, not a top ten list for the characters the SBR thinks are the best. Is it "Catagorial Sorting" or is it just a lack of care? It really seems that much more work was put into ordering the higher tier characters then say the D tier. There are countless mistakes in the lower section, mostly caused by the BBR's spending all there time on what, 10 characters? Catagorial sorting my a**. It seems like they purposely wanted us to flame them for lack of caring about low tiers. There are thirty seven characters in this game. Not ten. Not five. Not two. And in my opinion, all of them should have an equal chance at being put in the correct position.
 

Chuee

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Character MU's in B & A tier matter a whole lot more than characters in Low tier. You hardly ever see Low tier characters while high tier characters you see really often.
In tourny of course.
 

Dark.Pch

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Character MU's in B & A tier matter a whole lot more than characters in Low tier. You hardly ever see Low tier characters while high tier characters you see really often.
In tourny of course.
Cause they too busy counterpicking to use their mains.
 

zeldspazz

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Would a low tiers tier list (as in only taking into account characters D tier and below) be much different than the low tiers order on the regular list? For example Im assuming that Ike, Mario, Zelda (unless people think shes sucks against low teirs too x.x), etc would be at the top, but would the order change a ton considering now its only against other low tiers and not taking into account high tier MUs?
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I'm going to agree with DP here, but to a different extent. I know a characters match up against Link or Samus won't really matter that much. I know that having a good matchup against an A+ character is much more important then having one against a C character. No matter how much anyone tries, it'll stay this way. But that doesn't mean we have to completely disregard the entire list of characters that aren't Top Tier. This is a tier list for all of Brawl, not a top ten list for the characters the SBR thinks are the best. Is it "Catagorial Sorting" or is it just a lack of care? It really seems that much more work was put into ordering the higher tier characters then say the D tier. There are countless mistakes in the lower section, mostly caused by the BBR's spending all there time on what, 10 characters? Catagorial sorting my a**. It seems like they purposely wanted us to flame them for lack of caring about low tiers. There are thirty seven characters in this game. Not ten. Not five. Not two. And in my opinion, all of them should have an equal chance at being put in the correct position.
I disagree with this in MvC2 there's about 12 characters that can be played or have their metagames flushed out. Everyone else is low tier or doesn't matter.
 

Conviction

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Yea just arguing it wouldn't hurt to pay respect/give a little more thought to characters C and and below stopping before Ganon though...... XD
 

Wulfy07

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Puff is actually proving to be a little better then what she's worth. If not over Samus then just in the same tier as her. Just get Puff out of bottom tier, she doesn't belong there. (She still does suck though.)
...Yes and No.
Puff should be in bottom tier. Samus should also be bottom. Falcon should move up though. And Ganon should drop a tier...

DANG.

If you were a girl SL, this would be like him taking you home, getting you in bed, and taking a huge dump on your chest. He pampers you up, silently planning a soul crushing moment, and BAM next thing you know, you're surrounded in a pool of shame.

Lol. <3 SL

Also, Peach:

Who here, besides people we know their obvious stances on/already stated it, think Peach is viable or not viable?
Hm... well, I'd have to say that she's an okay character from what I know. However, I think it depends on what you mean bi viable? If you mean that in a 30+ tournament if Peach can consistently make the top 8 ALONE (no other picks), no. If you mean she can be someone's main with a decent secondary, I could see making it to the top 8. It depends on your definition of viable, I guess.

Would a low tiers tier list (as in only taking into account characters D tier and below) be much different than the low tiers order on the regular list? For example Im assuming that Ike, Mario, Zelda (unless people think shes sucks against low teirs too x.x), etc would be at the top, but would the order change a ton considering now its only against other low tiers and not taking into account high tier MUs?
It would be pretty different then because some BBR only really looks at the A or S tier. That's not criticism, it's just true that the lower end of the tier list is not near as important in terms of placement. I would say that several of the characters are placed incorrectly, but I wouldn't say there are glaring errors, savvy?
 

mountain_tiger

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Cause they too busy counterpicking to use their mains.
So you use Peach in every single matchup, right? You never use anyone else in tourneys? Because if so, that's pretty courageous.


ya know what
if thats the case thats fine

i dont give a **** about brawl anymore so yea just expected a new list after like 7 months or something
If you don't care about Brawl, then why would you ask when the next tier list is coming out? :dizzy: Patience, child, patience.

Would a low tiers tier list (as in only taking into account characters D tier and below) be much different than the low tiers order on the regular list? For example Im assuming that Ike, Mario, Zelda (unless people think shes sucks against low teirs too x.x), etc would be at the top, but would the order change a ton considering now its only against other low tiers and not taking into account high tier MUs?
Bowser would be lower than Ike, Mario and Zelda since he goes 40:60-50:50 against a lot of the low tiers, whereas Ike and Mario are all even or advantages, and Zelda even or advantages except for Ike. Samus and Jigglypuff would be higher, Lucas and Ness a bit lower, and the bottom three would still be Link, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf.

Oh, and PT would be top, but that goes without saying.
 

Chuee

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Lucas would be high on a low tier ranking. He has a slight advantage on over half of the low tiers and only loses to Bowser and maybe Yoshi.
 

Dark.Pch

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So you use Peach in every single matchup, right? You never use anyone else in tourneys? Because if so, that's pretty courageous.
Dude, I been doing this since the melee days. And just about anyone who knows me knows I go all Peach in tourny. I have no need for counterpicks. I been saying this for the longest time.
 

BRoomer
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I don't think peach has any "unwinnable" match ups.

I've always been curious why charaters like peach wolf fox and sheik are concidered "good, but not viable." what does that mean and why do they have that title?
 

Dark.Pch

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when people say that, it usually means they can't hold thier own in tournaments to place in the money or even win.

So in my case, people think Peach can not win a tourny or place in the money without a secondary. Like it is impossible. Which of course, I call BS on.

Fox is pretty good of a character and I think with hard work he is tourny viable. Same with Shiek.
 

Prawn

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Fox and Sheik need counterpicks for ICs IMO. Fox moreso than sheik though
 
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