The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Red Arremer]

I said that because F Tier was the current topic of discussion. If the current topic of discussion would've been the lower half of A Tier, I would've said a similar thing.
Seriously, learn to read. But I don't care anymore, I feel like I have to baby you into understanding anything I say. I'll just put you on ignore and be freed of you wanting to misunderstand everything I say so badly.

 

[adumbrodeus]

wut.

Infinite means you lose. -.- If they pull it off, of course. He's still arguably our hardest matchup.

Inifinite is useless against Mario, it doesn't work until he dies anyway, you can break out till like 120.

When is the SBR gonna make an approximate MK ban date?

When they decide MK is banworthy, see: never

 

[mountain_tiger]

When is the SBR gonna make an approximate MK ban date?

It's unlikely that MK will EVER get banned, but if he does, it will almost certainly be at least another year or so.

 

[Nanaki]

The one who fails to understand something is you. This has nothing to freaking do with what you boys know about the characters. it's you saying stupid crap like this:

"All of F Tier sucks balls. Who cares where they are exactly? They are interchangeable. They have the same lack of potential."

Cause again, if that is the case, there is no need for a tier list. You just can't say crap like that.

Except you can say crap like that, because it's true. The data even shows it.

Tournament results put them at ~the same level of ****tiness. They suck, they don't win, their positions are bottom of bottom. Hell, we'd put all of F tier as 'dead last' if we could, but SOMEone has to go above the others. The SBR votes just put them 'slightly' above the others based on averages of the voting.

I posted earlier in here about analysis of the SBR voting based on the average and standard deviations of their positions, and it turned out that plenty of these votes (CF and Link, ironically enough, are an example of this) were inconclusively different from each other. That is to say, there is no statistical significance in the SBR voting to distinguish Link and CF's positions from one another.

There's plenty of gray area, the idea of the tier list at this point is to put the characters in the right region based on current metagames. When Brawl has been out as long as Melee was at the time of the last tier list, then you can start to bicker about Link, CF, and Ganondorf if they're still dead last.

To reiterate: stats on SBR voting show these characters as NOT significantly different (their positions are entirely interchangeable):

Wario, Falco, Diddy

GW, Pikachu, Olimar, IC's

Toon Link, Pit, Donkey Kong

Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik

Ike, Pokemon Trainer

Lucas, Mario, Ness, Yoshi

Samus, Jigglypuff

Captain Falcon, Link

 

[Popertop]

do you guys realize how hard it is to make a tier list for 37 characters?

that's *a lot* of characters for a fighting game

 

[Dark.Pch]

I said that because F Tier was the current topic of discussion. If the current topic of discussion would've been the lower half of A Tier, I would've said a similar thing.
Seriously, learn to read. But I don't care anymore, I feel like I have to baby you into understanding anything I say. I'll just put you on ignore and be freed of you wanting to misunderstand everything I say so badly.

You are trying to hard to dodge a bullet.

The heck does F tier being the discussion have to do with saying something so dumb. Seriously, what? Can't answer my question? You said something so dumb then you wanna ignore your way out of it. How many times I have to put you on blast with stuff like this? But w/e, you been saying some foolish crap lately and then try to dodge the bullet.

Which leads me back to what a member in the SBR said about only the high tier matter and screw everyone else. then I see you say this. I'm starting to have a funny feeling that person was this dude.

Wether a character section is bad and all, they still have to be placed and payed attention too cause they are in this game. or else there is no point for a tier list. A tier list involes all characters so they DO matter.

If it was really to go down like that, might as well hold tournies with high tiers only. Characters below them should stay out cause they don't matter at all. Hate when one says that. Freaking dumb

 

[Nanaki]

You are trying to hard to dodge a bullet.

The heck does F tier being the discussion have to do with saying something so dumb. Seriously, what? Can't answer my question? You said something so dumb then you wanna ignore your way out of it. How many times I have to put you on blast with stuff like this? But w/e, you been saying some foolish crap lately and then try to dodge the bullet.

Which leads me back to what a member in the SBR said about only the high tier matter and screw everyone else. then I see you say this. I'm starting to have a funny feeling that person was this dude.

Wether a character section is bad and all, they still have to be placed and payed attention too cause they are in this game. or else there is no point for a tier list. A tier list involes all characters so they DO matter.

If it was really to go down like that, might as well hold tournies with high tiers only. Characters below them should stay out cause they don't matter at all. Hate when one says that. Freaking dumb

That was Ankoku, not Spadefox. It's in the OP of THIS THREAD, for crying out loud.

In particular, the voting on High was on specific ordering of character-by-character, while the Middle and Low were done by categorical sorting. To that end, while characters in Tiers B through F may be, to some point, considered near each other in level when in the same tier, the same should not be applied to those in Tiers S and A. Meta Knight was overall voted better than Snake, who was overall voted above Wario, who was overall voted over Falco, and so on. Long story short, if the character is in S or A tier, order matters a lot. If the character is not, then unless it's at the top of the tier and another is at the bottom of the tier, there's not that huge of a difference.

 

[Pughead]

How can you POSSIBLY know EVERY strategie in existence? You can't, unless you have many, MANY people, working all day and all night for fifty years! Each player differs and the tier is the standard way to play, that standard is INACCURATE the standard would and could ONLY be found by analyzing each and every player for thousands matches to see how they react and then linking similarities between them. While tiers can be made accurate, none of the current tiers, and no tiers will be for along time.

 

[Dark.Pch]

It's still stupid to say that.

 

[Matador]

I think people like Legan and Vicegrip know their respective characters enough to give you a general idea of how they should be placed...wherever.

I know that I, for one, have more than an abundance of knowledge on Mario. I'm sure there are people out there that know a bit about the F tier characters too.

 

[Dark.Pch]

For info on the lower tier:

Zelda- DarkMusician (seriously, this man needs to be in the SBR)
Link- Legan or Deva
Bowser- DJ Nintendo or Warrior knight

Thats about all I know.

 

[Zankoku]

It's still stupid to say that.

I myself ran the voting process. I also went ahead and noted that, since we were voting characters into only one of 4 categories (in the case of low tier), the difference between two characters right next to each other in the same tier is negligible because we didn't vote with enough resolution to actually find the difference between the two. By the time you do have enough voting to constitute a difference, it's from category 1 to category 2, or the top of F Tier to the bottom of it.

Please enlighten me as to why it's stupid to say "since we didn't actually vote with utmost certainty regarding exact position on the lower tiers, the specific ordering within the list should not be regarded as statistically significant."

 

[Dark.Pch]

Look at what I quoted about spadefox said ealier about F tier. THAT is a stupid thing to say.

 

[Zankoku]

Just because Spadefox is a little more demeaning about it doesn't change the truth of his words.

 

[pure_awesome]

Wait a minute.

Spadefox is in the Back Room? Like the actual, full on, Brawl Back Room?

 

[Zankoku]

Uh, yeah. That would be what the purple name denotes.

 

[pure_awesome]

I kind of figured he got that for European Back Room or something.


...why? I mean, no disrespect to the guy, I just don't really know anything about him.

 

[Red Arremer]

...why? I mean, no disrespect to the guy, I just don't really know anything about him.

Because the SBR leaders, or one of them, decided I would be a good addition.

Just because YOU don't know me, it doesn't mean I'm nobody or can't do my job in the SBR. I want to note that I, as a European, don't know many of the American SBRoomers either.

 

[Timbers]

just to kind of throw this out there because it was mentioned a few times in the past 5 or so pages, I'm pretty sure Lucario is where he's at on the list is because of how slow of a character he is, with lolbad shield pressure/options, not because of how he doesn't excel in any one area.

 

[tocador]

Because the SBR leaders, or one of them, decided I would be a good addition.

Just because YOU don't know me, it doesn't mean I'm nobody or can't do my job in the SBR. I want to note that I, as a European, don't know many of the American SBRoomers either.

In your face :O

/joke

Spadefox is winsss! I have a question tho, when they "invite"you to the SBR is a invitation or a demand? Yeah i think it is a invitation but i can almost affirm that noone has ever declined the invitattion o/!

 

[pure_awesome]

I never implied that you were a nobody, or that you couldn't do your job. I never even implied that that would matter.

It's fairly obvious that at some point, a decision was made that you would be a good addition. I was curious as to what lead to this decision. Do you dominate Europeans tourneys? Had any impact on the metagame? Been around for a long time?

 

[Red Arremer]

It's an invitation. They can't force you to become SBRoomer (or staff or anything similar for that matter).

Edit:

It's fairly obvious that at some point, a decision was made that you would be a good addition. I was curious as to what lead to this decision. Do you dominate Europeans tourneys? Had any impact on the metagame? Been around for a long time?

I don't know why I should legitimate why I was invited.

 

[tocador]

I know its a invitation, but invitation implies that you can decline, and really, has anyone EVER declined it?

 

[tocador]

I never implied that you were a nobody, or that you couldn't do your job. I never even implied that that would matter.

It's fairly obvious that at some point, a decision was made that you would be a good addition. I was curious as to what lead to this decision. Do you dominate Europeans tourneys? Had any impact on the metagame? Been around for a long time?

"sorry for double post"

Spade is in SBR cause hes really sexy lol. Do you need any moar than this?

 

[DanGR]

You do realize that there's an editing feature, right?

 

[tocador]

Yeah but i dont know how to edit and then quote ><.

 

[ruin`]

)Yeah but i dont know how to edit and then quote ><.([)/QUOTE]

fill in the required brackets that are in paranthesis and then continue on to your post.

 

[.Marik]

Yeah but i dont know how to edit and then quote ><.

You Multiquote?

 

[DanGR]

Yeah but i dont know how to edit and then quote ><.

)Yeah but i dont know how to edit and then quote ><.([)/QUOTE]

fill in the required brackets that are in paranthesis and then continue on to your post.

Or you could just push the quote button, copy it, and then paste into your edited post. It's not very hard.

edit: I'm not editing that, lol.

 

[.Marik]

^ Do what he said, and/or insert as many [QUOTE*] tags as you need for the parts of sentences you're quoting.

*Without the *

 

[thrillagorilla]

I know its a invitation, but invitation implies that you can decline, and really, has anyone EVER declined it?

I believe someone has. You'd have to ask the BRoomers to be sure, though.

Edit: Lol at posts about edits in the Tier List thread.

 

[Frown]

Must... resist wannabe... modding...

Let's discuss R.O.B. He was the highlight of winter '08, but now he's possibly the least discussed character in the tier threads.

 

[Nanaki]

Must... resist wannabe... modding...

Let's discuss R.O.B. He was the highlight of winter '08, but now he's possibly the least discussed character in the tier threads.

I was thinking the same thing on the wannabe modding front. This has gotten so badly OT, and it's not even entertaining OT.

It sucks to be R.O.B. because he's a character that gets combo'd in a game that doesn't have combos. That being said, he's probably better than his recent tournament results have shown.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Because the SBR leaders, or one of them, decided I would be a good addition.

Just because YOU don't know me, it doesn't mean I'm nobody or can't do my job in the SBR. I want to note that I, as a European, don't know many of the American SBRoomers either.

Yeah, they must've lowered their standards a lot for you to get in.

Spoiler

j/k obviously

edit:

I never implied that you were a nobody, or that you couldn't do your job. I never even implied that that would matter.

It's fairly obvious that at some point, a decision was made that you would be a good addition. I was curious as to what lead to this decision. Do you dominate Europeans tourneys? Had any impact on the metagame? Been around for a long time?

Actually, you did.

Saying "I mean, no disrespect to the guy, I just don't really know anything about him" rather strongly implies that the person is a nobody, and also that being a nobody means you're not able to do the job of being a SBR.

I honestly don't think that you meant that, you were just wondering why he's in the SBR, right? Still, that's how it came off.


Anyway, I don't know about tournaments, but he's always shown himself as being highly knowledgeable about a variety of characters, including low tiers, as well as being skilled at discussion. On those grounds if no other, adding him is justified.

 

[tocador]

R.O.B went down mainly for him having his worst matchups in S tier, wich f-ed him badly.

And yeah, hes kinda cool and stuff with camping but once you learn that the "wall of camp" is preety much nothing, and that being under him in air = winz he is pretty much f-ed. But still..... Hes a great char with some untapped pottencial still! I've seen great R.O.B's(hugs and that european guy that i forgot name for example) and they sure can do some damage :D!

 

[Kewkky]

Saying "I mean, no disrespect to the guy, I just don't really know anything about him" rather strongly implies that the person is a nobody, and also that being a nobody means you're not able to do the job of being a SBR.

It could also mean that you know he's apt for the job according to what others have said about him, but you yourself don't know anything about him.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ROB to me is very similar to how Samus should have been, but I don't think ROB is high tier. He's definitely high mid, though. His placement in a "by the numbers" sense isn't that wrong, but his "tier placement" probably is. He's a big target, easily combo'd, and despite his good recovery, it's pretty easy to gimp him out of it.

With that said, his long range ground game is really good, and in a game that emphasizes defense and camping that's a very good attribute to have, IMO.

ROB is also starting to show signs of having the "Wario problem." His footstool animation is ridiculous and I guarantee that by the end of the year we'll have one or two more characters with devastating footstool combos on ROB. If you didn't know, Captain Falcon now has an infinite on ROB that is easier than ZSS' and way, way cooler looking too. It doesn't hurt that it can be ended with a Pawnch or Sweet Knee, either.

 

[ruin`]

I'd rather my opponent go captain falcon or zss on me than MK/Snake/D3 etc etc.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'd rather my opponent go captain falcon or zss on me than MK/Snake/D3 etc etc.

As a ROB player? I'm not sure why. CF, maybe, but ZSS is one of his worst matchups.

That isn't the point I'm making, though. What if MK, Snake or D3 found a footstool infinite? lol

 

[Pughead]

I'd rather my opponent go captain falcon or zss on me than MK/Snake/D3 etc etc.

Whats the matter, scared?