The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[pure_awesome]

lol welcome to the internet, where saying you mean someone no disrespect, infers that you do. Props to Kewkky for acknowledging that sometimes sentences mean what they look like they mean.

I find ROB's air game to be... well, bad, to be honest. Playing Holy, the only time I really take solid control of the match is when he's in the air.

That being said, I like his spot now, and may actually put him above Olimar. He's certainly not worse than Kirby or Lucario.

 

[Nitrix]

ROB has a few problems but in the end he is a really versatile character that is a jack of all trades. His projectile game, and his recovery are both excellent though. He also has a few nice spacing tools like his F-Tilt. The only major hinderance that ROB faces is the fact that he rarely has the best of anything, and also the fact that he is getting footstooled in terrible ways.

I like his current spot

and despite his good recovery, it's pretty easy to gimp him out of it.

I have never ever seen a ROB that has trouble with gimps. If anything, ROB is doing the gimping.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I have never ever seen a ROB that has trouble with gimps. If anything, ROB is doing the gimping.

Really? Because he can't airdodge. so I imagine he'd be pretty gimpable from the side by Marth or MK.

 

[Kewkky]

Really? Because he can't airdodge. so I imagine he'd be pretty gimpable from the side by Marth or MK.

Or if Kirby aircamps on top of him while he recovers from the side or below, ROB is bound to do an attack out of fear Kirby will dair, and Kirby waits for that exact moment to take advantage of the moment his hitbox ends to then actually dair>footstool ROB... Buwahahaha!

 

[pure_awesome]

ROB can only really be gimped by the characters who he can't simply out-wait.

Of which there are extremely few.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It could also mean that you know he's apt for the job according to what others have said about him, but you yourself don't know anything about him.

Not at all, the phrase makes no mention (implicit or explicit) of any prestige based on opinions of other people, in fact it explicitly REJECTS that because it says "I don't know anything about him".

Unless quantified in some manner (for example, "I don't know anything about him that I didn't hear from somebody else"), "I don't know anything about the guy" means "I don't know anything about the guy".

You can't just assume that quantifiers are there, you have to take statements at least somewhat close to what they are.

lol welcome to the internet, where saying you mean someone no disrespect, infers that you do. Props to Kewkky for acknowledging that sometimes sentences mean what they look like they mean.

"No disrespect", if you say it before there's a response to the comment it talks about, is a meaningless phrase. "I think you're the most horrible being that ever exist and killing you would be a mercy, no disrespect" is still disrespectful, as is any other phrase that's disrespectful. "No disrespect" doesn't actually change anything you said, so if what you said is disrespectful, it won't change it.

The way to use, "no disrespect" is [insert comment here]->[insert response by other person]->"no disrespect, I just meant [insert explanation of comment here]".

Kewkky's comment was exactly the opposite of the plain meaning of the phrase, adding non-existent quantifiers =/= "what they look like they mean", addung non-existant quantifiers = "some random meaning which bears little to no resemblance to what they look like they mean".


I'm not trying to convince you you're a horrible person, I'm just disagreeing with a comment you made (that you never implied he was a nobody or unqualified, when you did). If you don't like that fact (and I'm pretty sure that wasn't what you meant to imply) then perhaps double-check your comments before posting them, it's a lot easier here then in speech. A good rule of thumb is if you begin or end a comment with "no offense" or anything like it, it's probably offensive.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

>__>

And that, kids, is what the debate hall will do to your brain.

<3 you, Adumbrodeus.

(NO DISRESPECT.)

Smooth Criminal

 

[bibleonian]

I'm just glad that Yoshi hopped up a spot.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Rob's problem is that he hasn't gone anywhere. He is still close to the same as he was when the game first came out, while almost everyone else is advancing. That and footstools are looking like more and more of a problem.

 

[pure_awesome]

No disrespect means no disrespect. You can read into your Psych 101 notes all you want, but if I tell someone I don't mean them any disrespect, then I don't mean them any disrespect. They can still feel disrespected by what I say, but that's not my intention.

I don't know anything about Spadefox. I fully realized that my questioning his invitation to the SBR could be taken as being a personal attack, which it was not; it was simple curiosity. Hence why I said what I did. I never assumed or implied he didn't have any qualifications, only that I personally didn't know what they were. Me saying I don't know what his qualifications are is a pretty decent stretch away from me accusing him of having no qualifications. Hell, when he said he didn't know, I dropped the topic completely until you showed up and started acting like Captain Smashboards. (Disrespect.)


I really don't think ROBs game has been as stagnant as everyone seems to think. You look at Holy's current style of play and then look at Overswarm-era ROB and they're totally different. But like I said, I like his spot here.


Ice Climbers need to be higher.

 

[Flayl]

I have to say I'm curious why Spadefox was invited over Gheb, if inviting Austrians was what they were going for. I remember Gheb being quite articulate in the discussions he participated in, and it is apparently generally accepted he is the most knowledgeable when it comes to matchups in his country.

So I can only assume there's something about Spadefox's posts that stand out more than Gheb's?

 

[Commander_Beef]

I'm just glad that Yoshi hopped up a spot.

Lol, it seems like he went down.. but meh.

 

[Nitrix]

Really? Because he can't airdodge. so I imagine he'd be pretty gimpable from the side by Marth or MK.

ROB can recover high, or simply attack during his recovery and be able to airdodge. Also if he is challenged off-stage, he would stand a decent chance winning the skirmish due to his strong aerials.

 

[bigman40]

Lol, it seems like he went down.. but meh.

He pretty much did.

 

[adumbrodeus]

ROB is still pretty good, not amazing though. Again, the overall issue seems to be lack of substantive improvement in his metagame. He really hasn't advanced mucch, while even the lower tiers like ganon have gained at least something.

It's a little surprising considering that he has rather unique attriutes that should be easy to some ways to exploit.

No disrespect means no disrespect. You can read into your Psych 101 notes all you want, but if I tell someone I don't mean them any disrespect, then I don't mean them any disrespect. They can still feel disrespected by what I say, but that's not my intention.

I don't know anything about Spadefox. I fully realized that my questioning his invitation to the SBR could be taken as being a personal attack, which it was not; it was simple curiosity. Hence why I said what I did. I never assumed or implied he didn't have any qualifications, only that I personally didn't know what they were. Me saying I don't know what his qualifications are is a pretty decent stretch away from me accusing him of having no qualifications. Hell, when he said he didn't know, I dropped the topic completely until you showed up and started acting like Captain Smashboards. (Disrespect.)

Not worth a long post so:

I didn't assume that meant to insult (I assumed the opposite actually), I just disagreed with you saying the statement wasn't insulting, why did the only person who read it that didn't come to that conclusion pull a meaning out of thin air if it wasn't?

"No disrespect" doesn't actually change the meaning, it just shows you know what you say could be insulting.

>__>

And that, kids, is what the debate hall will do to your brain.

This is your brain on debate hall:

<3 you, Adumbrodeus.

(NO DISRESPECT.)

Smooth Criminal

Dude, not in public, people will stare.

 

[pure_awesome]

If you think that me saying I don't know anything about someone is insulting, then you can go right ahead and think that.

I'll be over here, in context.

Waaaaaay over here.

 

[aeghrur]

If you think that me saying I don't know anything about someone is insulting, then you can go right ahead and think that.

I'll be over here, in context.

Waaaaaay over here.

Please learn to read:

I didn't assume that meant to insult (I assumed the opposite actually)

 

[pure_awesome]

Please learn to not be an idiot.

If you think that [my statement] is insulting, then you can go right ahead and think that.

I just disagreed with you saying the statement wasn't insulting,

So yeah. Ice Climbers. They need to be higher.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Oh jesus christ.
I'll just break it down simple.

You adding in "no disrespect" gives the insinuation that what you say is potentially harmful towards the individuals pride.

Adumbrodeus disagreed with you concerning the fact of the aforementioned statement being possibly insulting.
You believed there was no negative connotations, he believed that while you certainly meant no harm, the interpretation of the statement would lead to it being considered otherwise.

Certainly your statement did indeed have the potential to be damaging even though clear, Adumbrodeus has certainly agreed that wasn't the intention.

But you appear to disagree with this even though your earlier quote of yourself does seem to accept the possibility of it being insulting.

So what exactly is the issue?

Oh and do not go insulting others when they merely point out something, you make a fool of yourself not the person you are shooting down.

Edit: *sips tea and crosses leg then goes hmhhmhmhmhmhm*

 

[Red Arremer]

and it is apparently generally accepted he is the most knowledgeable when it comes to matchups in his country.

Is it?

@Discussion:
I still don't see any reason why I have to legitimate my invitation to the SBR. And I will not legitimate my invitation to the SBR, anyway.

Thanks for the backup, though, adumbrodeus and ShadowLink.

Spoiler

Even though it came a little late, haha... <.<

 

[Deathcarter]

I have to say I'm curious why Spadefox was invited over Gheb, if inviting Austrians was what they were going for. I remember Gheb being quite articulate in the discussions he participated in, and it is apparently generally accepted he is the most knowledgeable when it comes to matchups in his country.

So I can only assume there's something about Spadefox's posts that stand out more than Gheb's?

I don't really have proof to augment my perceptions, but Spadefox, at least in recent memory, is more involved in the day to day affairs of Smashboards than Gheb. I have seen Spadefox post in every hot spot thread on the Tactical/General Discussion forums and on various character boards on several occasions; he simply posts much more than Gheb. I would guess he couldn't take the stupidity of these forums on a regular basis.

Not to say that post count is all that important to the SBR (I would think that it is not), but when you have two candidates with comparable ability in formulating arguments and substantiated opinions, the one who posts more often will have more time to impress those in charge.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Does it really matter why Spadefox was invited to the SBR? It's none of our business, and frankly I'm surprised that people care. Spadefox usually seems fairly knowledgeable about Brawl, so that's reason enough for me.

Getting back on topic...

I'm just glad that Yoshi hopped up a spot.

I think a lot of us are. I can see a lot of untapped potential in Yoshi, what with his grab releases and whatnot. He'll probably be in low tier for Brawl's lifespan, but not as low as he is now hopefully. Seriously, the main thing keeping Yoshi down is his total lack of ooS options.

 

[Matador]

Question: What part does doubles play in the creation of the tier list? How much of a difference does a character like Fox's teams potential make for his general spot on the tier list, if any difference at all?

 

[Red Arremer]

Doubles are not taken into account at all. The tier list is for 1v1 games.

 

[Kinzer]

Not to say that post count is all that important to the SBR (I would think that it is not)

If this WERE the case, then you can count on evey single Sonic boarder being in the SBR.

We can haz tru mane rep nao?

Nah, whatever they have up there is pretty good as far as I can see.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Doubles are not taken into account at all. The tier list is for 1v1 games.

You guys should consider a teams list. It isn't something that's usually done, but there's no reason not to have it.

 

[Kinzer]

OMG, the thought of putting ALL of the team combinations into a tier-list.

It's madness!

 

[Red Arremer]

There is, which is it being a huge ton of work.

You have to consider every possible team combination, and every possible matchup against every other team combination. It's a digit that reaches into thousands.

Furthermore, many team combinations have never been seen before in tournament play.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Kinzer. I don't think (s)he? meant like every combination. Just in general who does well in teams.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

There is, which is it being a huge ton of work.

You have to consider every possible team combination, and every possible matchup against every other team combination. It's a digit that reaches into thousands.

Furthermore, many team combinations have never been seen before in tournament play.

This is fair. I just meant character-wise. For instance you can slap almost anything with MK and the team will probably work on some level. I agree it'd be a hard thing to quantify, though.

Kinzer. I don't think (s)he? meant like every combination. Just in general who does well in teams.

This. And "he."

 

[deepseadiva]

They have a hard enough time with 37 topics of conversation.

Have you seen their discussions of Ness and Lucas?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah. I was gonna edit that to say he since I just checked AiB but now I'm not going to because you already cleared it up. lol


FOW BEAT TYRANT! NESS IS TOP TIER!

 

[mountain_tiger]

You guys should consider a teams list. It isn't something that's usually done, but there's no reason not to have it.

Dude, there are like 37 different characters in the game (39 if PT's 3 Pokemon count as separate characters). Can you imagine how many pairs they'd have to consider?

Though one thing is for sure: ZSS + Ike = God tier.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Dude, there are like 37 different characters in the game (39 if PT's 3 Pokemon count as separate characters). Can you imagine how many pairs they'd have to consider?

Though one thing is for sure: ZSS + Ike = God tier.

ZSS is just a good teams character, way better than in singles.

BTW, teams gameplay doesn't really interest me. I was just speaking about it because I've heard some people express interest. The more I think about it though, the more it kind of becomes "who works with more characters" which is silly and not worth doing.

 

[Matador]

Luigi, Kirby, Fox = Extraordinary teams characters. They accel at killing easily/gimping/being stock tanks.

Someone like Diddy isn't as amazing in teams as singles, so naturally he'd be lower on a teams tier list.

THAT is one list I wouldn't mind being a little inaccurate...mainly because we don't put much focus on it as a community (Matchup discussions everywhere but little to no mention of team combinations from board to board)...even though many pros hold it as superior to singles. It just seems a shame that we don't have a list to represent which characters are great teammates.

 

[Zankoku]

They have a hard enough time with 37 topics of conversation.

Have you seen their discussions of Ness and Lucas?

Hahahahaha

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach is a beast in teams, that is one of her best qualities. Me and OmegaBlackMage team at one tournament as Peach and Wario and was beasting. She can team with anyone and ****. How can people forget about this. I have owned with these characters as teams and placed in the single digits in tournies.

Toon Link- Jash
ROB- TeeVee (we actually won that tournament for teams that day)
Luigi/Meta- Jbandrew
Wario- OmegaBlackMage
Olimar- Blackwaltz

People need to step your game up with that team knowledge. Peach is a Monster in teams

 

[slikvik]

placing single digits in teams isnt hard. how often is she places top 3 in teams should be what you're looking at. peach is really good at racking up damage and tanking with her exceptional spacing game, but she depends on having a teammate that kills reliably

 

[gocubs44123]

Well I believe the Ice Climbers should be higher because they have the infinite Chain Grab which if perfected is quite deadly. The only downfall with them is if you lose the one because the other is significantly weaker without it and kind of screws you over. But the CG should definately move the IC's up.

 

[Dark.Pch]

placing single digits in teams isnt hard. how often is she places top 3 in teams should be what you're looking at. peach is really good at racking up damage and tanking with her exceptional spacing game, but she depends on having a teammate that kills reliably

I was waiting for someone to say something like this. though I did not expect it to be you. Peach is a solid character in teams. I don't know about these other people but i'm not stupid in teams. I know how to link team combos out of random with my teammate, I know how to back him up. I know how to hold my own.

Me and Jash got 4th at gimped.
Me and Blackwaltz got 3 at the ECRC finals for placing in brackets. Lost to both ally and holy in winners and losers finals.
Me and TeeVee got first at the tournament we won singles. And the funny thing was, I got to that tournament late so had to start in losers. Won losers straight.

Don't deny that credit that Peach deserves. And it is not easy to just place the way I have in teams. You know how hard it was for me and Blackwaltz to back each other out? That team is hard to beast with, but we did it anyway. Let's be for real with this.